How stupid is my staff?

ok, so let's see:

oooh!

... so what, only 20s are acceptable??

What are his mental attributes like ? Maybe he has very poor composure?

I love the irony of the thread title...

his not that good technically either, at 12 thats only a fairly average rating

well with finishing at 8 i wouldn't let him take free kicks either

... so what, only 20s are acceptable??

lol, as said free kick rating isnt the only thing that determines how good they are, would be like saying that 20 for finishing means they are fantastic striker.

Actually the technique and decisions attribute has a great deal to say here.

Technique - What type of shot and how to yuse it

Decisions - Where to place the shot

So in other words you could say that the Free Kick attribute itself is just the 3rd most important attribute.

finishing is not representative of FK ability at all.

Actually the technique and decisions attribute has a great deal to say here.

Technique - What type of shot and how to yuse it

Decisions - Where to place the shot

So in other words you could say that the Free Kick attribute itself is just the 3rd most important attribute.

creativity plays a role too, and flair, though flair is a little secondary here

finishing is not representative of FK ability at all.

if i have a player who can't finish his dinner, let alone a shot there is not a chance in hell that he is taking a free kick for me.

Free Kick Taking is only how accurate he is at taking free kicks meaning he will get it on target all the time (if the attribute is high like in this case) but if he doesn't have the Compsure & Technique to at least get the ball past the wall then it means nothing. The three most important attributes for taking free kicks are Compsure, Technique and Free Kick Taking.

Also try having a look to see if the player is left or right footed. I have my left footed free kick takers taking the kicks from the right of the pitch and the opposite for the right side.

if i have a player who can't finish his dinner, let alone a shot there is not a chance in hell that he is taking a free kick for me.

Finishing has nothing to do with Free Kick Taking. You can have a player with 20 Finishing and if his Free Kick Taking, Composure and Technique are all average then I can guarantee you that you will get nothing from free kicks. Finishing comes from open play - not from dead ball situations like free kicks or corners.

I am lost in this thread about free kick ability. So far free-kick, technique, decision, composure, creativity, flair, finishing attributes said to be related about free kick taking. If we are using our logic about free-kick ability; I can add long-shoot attribute to this list as well. Since you don't have high numbers on long-shoots, your shoot might well en up a slowy into the keeper's hands. So to speak does anyone really know which attributes are written into game to effect the free-kick ability?

When 'shooting' at goal different attributes are used depending on what sort of 'shot' it is.

Free Kicks - Free kick taking

Inside the box - finishing

Outside the box - long shots

with you head - heading

Penalties - penalty taking

So, depending on what type of shot it is will determine what stat to use. Then, once that has been determined a whole load of other attributes will then affect the 'shot'

EG - Headers = heading + Jumping (+ a few others)

EG - one on ones - finishing + composure (+ maybe decisions? and what PPMs the player has like lob the keeper)

does that make any more sense?

When 'shooting' at goal different attributes are used depending on what sort of 'shot' it is.

Free Kicks - Free kick taking

Inside the box - finishing

Outside the box - long shots

with you head - heading

Penalties - penalty taking

So, depending on what type of shot it is will determine what stat to use. Then, once that has been determined a whole load of other attributes will then affect the 'shot'

EG - Headers = heading + Jumping (+ a few others)

EG - one on ones - finishing + composure (+ maybe decisions? and what PPMs the player has like lob the keeper)

does that make any more sense?

Yes it does make sense, and all the above attributes written about free kick taking makes sense as well. I just want to know that all the attributes written about free-kick taking are actually written in the game codes or not?

What Maidel said,

And then technique affects everything on top of that.

I love the irony of the thread title...

Agreed! it made me laugh too..............

What Maidel said,

And then technique affects everything on top of that.

And stength too! If player can score a screamer or just place the shot.

Even acceleration could be important attribute...

People, I think that FM is not so complex as you think that is.

I love the irony of the thread title...

LOL, true

On topic: We should be aware if all those other attributes quoted in here were as important as suggested, we wouldn't need the free-kick taking attribute anymore at all. Thus it must have some value and virtue which is more important than the others.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that composure, long shots technique, decisions, finishing, crossing and creativity might completely suffice to determine a good free-kick taker if it wasn't for the specific attribute, but as we have that I would assume that it plays a major role in the ME.

I dont know 100% this is true, but this is how I understand it. (I only really understand it for finishing, so ill use that example)

Basically, the fininish attribute tells you how often a player would hit the target with no goal keeper, using his good foot.

So, in the ideal situation a player with a finishing of 10 would hit the target 50% of the time.

Then, when you look at his composure stat, the minute you put him under pressure - well assume thats 10 as well.

That means he will choke 50% of the time - thus, his overall chance of scoring drops to 25%.

So, to start with he has a 25% chance of scoring then, you compare that to the goal keeper and his chance of stopping it - and add in a random quantity - and thats how it works. If Ive got it right...

I dont know 100% this is true, but this is how I understand it. (I only really understand it for finishing, so ill use that example)

Basically, the fininish attribute tells you how often a player would hit the target with no goal keeper, using his good foot.

So, in the ideal situation a player with a finishing of 10 would hit the target 50% of the time.

Then, when you look at his composure stat, the minute you put him under pressure - well assume thats 10 as well.

That means he will choke 50% of the time - thus, his overall chance of scoring drops to 25%.

So, to start with he has a 25% chance of scoring then, you compare that to the goal keeper and his chance of stopping it - and add in a random quantity - and thats how it works. If Ive got it right...

So this would leave the free-kicks attribute completely aside or dod you mean that when saying 'finishing'?

So this would leave the free-kicks attribute completely aside or dod you mean that when saying 'finishing'?

no no - sorry, i meant I understand how it works for close in shots.

I assume the following would be correct for free kicks - but im less familiar with them.

Freekicks of 10 = 50% chance of hitting the target

Decisions 10 + technique 10 = 50% chance of buggering the shot up

therefore with freekicks 10, decisions 10, techinque 10 = 12.5% chance of actually hitting the target in the right place - thats before the goal keepers stats are taken into account to see if he saves it.

But, as I said, that bit might be all wrong because im not sure how the numbers are applied, or exactly which stats are used - but it would work in that sort of fashion.

I will write something, but it would create more confusion. jayahr wrote what I excactly wanted to say:

On topic: We should be aware if all those other attributes quoted in here were as important as suggested, we wouldn't need the free-kick taking attribute anymore at all. Thus it must have some value and virtue which is more important than the others.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that composure, long shots technique, decisions, finishing, crossing and creativity might completely suffice to determine a good free-kick taker if it wasn't for the specific attribute, but as we have that I would assume that it plays a major role in the ME.

So in summary we have to start from free-kick attribute, and use our imaginations for all the other attributes. I only dissagree with composure attribute written in this thread for free-kick, because when a player takes a free-kicks, the game is stoped, you have time to prepare, and not everyone expects the player to score from free-kicks like penalties. So there isn't a lot of pressure on the player IMO. That's why composure is far less important for free-kicks IMO.

So in summary we have to start from free-kick attribute, and use our imaginations for all the other attributes. I only dissagree with composure attribute written in this thread for free-kick, because when a player takes a free-kicks, the game is stoped, you have time to prepare, and not everyone expects the player to score from free-kicks like penalties. So there isn't a lot of pressure on the player IMO. That's why composure is far less important for free-kicks IMO.

Pretty certain I agree with that.

I'm glad to see my thread was useful.

From what you guys wrote here, I removed my FK wonderboy (who had 19) from the FK list, because he has 12 for technique and 10 for composure. I would never think that way to be honest. I still don't agree with the importance of composure here. That way we can assume that composure is important in any attribute!

I think that looking to freekick takers IRL good part of them have good tachnique as well, but some don't (like Bruno Alves who's an excellent FK taker). So, I will from now on consider the attributes for Free Kick Taking, Long Shots (you won't score a FK from 30 meters with low long shots) and Technique when I choose my FK takers.

My approach for free kicks is to make a note of the following attributes for all of my regular starting XI:

Free kicks

Technique

Long Shots

Decisions

Composure

I then organise the players in order of how many points they have in total and that is my free kick order.

I see this comment from my staff from time to time, then think 'well if these guys aren't good enough then who the hell is?!'

Perhaps some suggestions as to who would be better would be useful

I love the irony of the thread title...

There is no irony.

I love the irony of your post.

I see this comment from my staff from time to time, then think 'well if these guys aren't good enough then who the hell is?!'

Perhaps some suggestions as to who would be better would be useful

They normally suggest though don't they? "A more suitable candidate would be xxxxx"

I normally look Technique and Free Kicks for free kicks, while for corners i look for Corners,Crossing and Technique.

And having good Decisions it helps as well i think, but then again that attribute is important for everything!

They normally suggest though don't they? "A more suitable candidate would be xxxxx"

I normally look Technique and Free Kicks for free kicks, while for corners i look for Corners,Crossing and Technique.

And having good Decisions it helps as well i think, but then again that attribute is important for everything!

Do they? My staff have never done such a thing which suggests two things - either my squad are just crap at set pieces, or my staff are too crap/lazy to recommend anyone. They also said Marcus Tudgay shouldn'ty be taking penalties, which is odd considering he'd been banging them in IRL for the past few seasons...

It might be you don't have very good coaches, thus you aren't getting all the information.

Just a thought, don't know if that's right.

AFAIK, only free-kicks, decisions and technique matter.

Technique determines what options a player has (e.g. blast the ball, swerve or curve it, etc.), decisions determines which option to use in a given circumstance and free-kick taking determines the actual accuracy of the shot.

There is no irony.

I love the irony of your post.

More than other collective nouns, people tend to pluralise the verb used with "staff" because otherwise it looks like the "walking stick" staff, not the" personnel" one.

You'll see people who quite comfortably say "the army is" and "the group is" etc. nonetheless revert to "the staff are hungry" - it just looks weird otherwise. As in the title.

AFAIK, only free-kicks, decisions and technique matter.

Technique determines what options a player has (e.g. blast the ball, swerve or curve it, etc.), decisions determines which option to use in a given circumstance and free-kick taking determines the actual accuracy of the shot.

This seems to make sense.

In the same vein, I select my corner takers based on corners, technique and decisions, as well as footedness. For penalty takers: Penalties, technique and decisions, but there I throw in composure as well.

Don't get me wrong... I love FM.

But this is the kind of thing that bothers me... and fascinates me... about FM.

If I hadn't played FM before I'd assume the best free-kick taker is the one with the best free-kick stats. I know better, but I don't see why this isn't a logical assumption. Now I'm all for developing as manager... but which manager (or assistant etc.) rates a player as the 'best free-kick taker'... when that means they're not the best free-kick taker...

Okay I know better, but in terms of intellectual clarity, it doesn't make sense. What game punishes a player for unjust misunderstanding... I don't care if they think it's clear, or too easy, if you say someone has perfect free-kick ability that can't mean they are poor at taking free-kicks because other, apparently, none-related attributes are weak. If someone is a 20 at free-kicks it should mean they are perfect... if that isbn't the case... change it. If it's too easy, mske it more clear, especially to the newer players who don't know the nuance.

if i have a player who can't finish his dinner, let alone a shot there is not a chance in hell that he is taking a free kick for me.

Thats ridiculous. Finishing has no influence on free kick ability at all.

This seems to make sense.

In the same vein, I select my corner takers based on corners, technique and decisions, as well as footedness. For penalty takers: Penalties, technique and decisions, but there I throw in composure as well.

For corners, it's anticipation (anticipating where teammates will be/move) and decisions (where to place it). For penalties, decisions (where to place) and composure (keeping calm under pressure).

At least that's what is said here.

I agree with BathPalace. This could be made clearer, especially when some attributes seem to defy intuition. I mean, technique could easily apply for corners as well and finishing for penalties.

Glad to see nobody has a clear idea about such an apparently pedestrian issue... SI please?

For crying out loud, if the FREE KICKS attribute turns out to be just "one of the factors" to actually decide which player is best as a free kick taker, then no wonder the game has been turning into an incomprehensible mess...

Hell, if I have to take into account Technique, Decisions, Finishing and whatnot, why just not getting rid of Free Kicks altogether?

Explain me: a player with average Technique, Long Shots and Decisions shouldn't have 18 Free Kicks.... If he can't bend, blast or place it and can't even decide how to take the FK, what's the point?

Honestly, if all those "links" between various attributes many are listing here are half-true, shouldn't Free Kicks be some sort of a weighed average?

Like a short player can't have 20 Jumping and Heading, a guy with poor Technique, Long Shots etc shouldn't have 20 (or 18 or 15) Free Kicks

P.S. once again, I think we're just clutching at straws and/or making stuff up...

SI can either try to keep it more simple or explain us how the whole thing works. Or, better, just prevent coaches from giving bemusing/baffling/moronic advice

Well, there's nothing to stop that argument from extending to other non-set-piece cases, like decisions/passing. One could have 20 passing but if his decisions are poor, he'll be delivering pinpoint passes to the wrong option.

Well, there's nothing to stop that argument from extending to other non-set-piece cases, like decisions/passing. One could have 20 passing but if his decisions are poor, he'll be delivering pinpoint passes to the wrong option.

You can't compare passing and taking a set piece...

If we have an attribute for Free Kicks, I take that at face value. Fair enough with Decisions, because you can have a great FK taker who often makes the wrong choice (eg. going for power when accuracy would have been a better option etc).

But bringing forth other "open play" attributes makes no sense to me, as it clearly contradicts the need and the presence of a Free Kick attribute.

Ditto for Penalties...

If we have a specific attribute, that one and ONLY ONE should count for the whole "technical side" of the action.

So IMO no matter how average he can be under other aspects, a player with 19 Free Kicks should always be 1st pick... Surely above a guy with all 13s...

I can see what you're saying. I guess the problem is with naming free-kick that way. Maybe they could indeed amalgamate the various attributes into one free-kick attribute or rename it to shot accuracy, power or something like that. So a good free-kick taker would effectively be one with a good combination of decisions, technique, shot accuracy/power/whatever.

At least that's what is said here.

That is interesting.

However, one caveat: That link leads to a post on a blog the writer of which appears to be both an FM fan and an attractive human female (simultaneously, no less). That is clearly impossible, so the post cannot exist. Therefore, I'm not sure if it can be trusted.

Hehehe. One other caveat: That writer posts in here.

More than other collective nouns, people tend to pluralise the verb used with "staff" because otherwise it looks like the "walking stick" staff, not the" personnel" one.

You'll see people who quite comfortably say "the army is" and "the group is" etc. nonetheless revert to "the staff are hungry" - it just looks weird otherwise. As in the title.

Agreed, it looks strange because of what 'people tend to do' but nonetheless, it is still not incorrect.

Hehehe. One other caveat: That writer posts in here.

Looking at that blog post (which actually is extremely interesting), it claims that anticipation is important for all sorts of things. It's an attribute I've never really given much attention. I might have to start...

There are some attributes that are important in almost every aspect of the game. Decisions, Antecipation and Determination are a couple of them.

I don't think that these attributes can be more important to FKs than the FK attribute, though. If that happened, then the FK attribute would become secondary. We need to keep things simple. If a player has 19 or 20 for FKs then he IS good (not awesomely good, but still, good) at taking them, even if his Technique and Decisions are a bit low. It has to work this way, or else the FK attribute is very, very misleading.

There are some attributes that are important in almost every aspect of the game. Decisions, Antecipation and Determination are a couple of them.

I don't think that these attributes can be more important to FKs than the FK attribute, though. If that happened, then the FK attribute would become secondary. We need to keep things simple. If a player has 19 or 20 for FKs then he IS good (not awesomely good, but still, good) at taking them, even if his Technique and Decisions are a bit low. It has to work this way, or else the FK attribute is very, very misleading.

While I believe that most of this is correct I still think that Technique and Compsure has to be important in taking free kicks. Anticipation & Determination has nothing to do with how well a player can take a free kick. Decisions I wouldn't rate highly in Free Kick Taking either.

The 1st attribute I look at is the Free Kick Taking one for obvious reasons BUT the Free Kick attribute is only an indication on how accurate the player is at taking free kicks meaning how often the player will get it on target and you can still get the ball on target even if it hits the wall first. If he has a Free Kick attribute of 19 then he'll get it on target pretty much all the time BUT if he doesn't have the technique to at least get the ball over or around the wall then that player taking the free kicks will get nowhere with them. For instance I have one player with 15 for Free Kick Taking and 17 for Technique and another player has 17 for Free Kick Taking and 12 for Technque. The player I will pick every time to take my free kicks first is the player that has 17 Technique and 15 for Free Kicks because he has a far better ability of bending the ball up and over the wall or around it than the player who has only 12 for Technique AND he still has a decent Free Kick Taking ability and there's only a difference of two between the two players.

It's just like passing - one player can have Passing of 17 and a Technique of 10 and another can have a Passing of 14 but a Technique of 16. The player with 14 Passing and 16 Technique will be a better passer of the ball overall as he has the Technique to pull off trickier passes then the other player. He may not be AS accurate in passing but his Technique is far better and there is only a difference of 3 in passing. Passing is an indication on how accurate his passes are but again if he doesn't have the Technique to pull off trickier passes it will count for nothing.

My ass man is stupider. lol

Player A is in my Reserve team. Player A announces he will retire at the end of the season which is a month away.... What does Ass Man decide to do? Reward him with a brand new 3 year, 110,000 per week!!! contract despite him retiring in 1 MONTH! I was absolutely livid when I saw that message pop up in my inbox

I mean, how stupid can you possibly be? I dare not even think what the signing on fee might have been!

This is slightly OT, but the way the various technical attributes were explained a while back was something like this... It's how good a player is at doing something with no pressure etc. So passing is how well a player can pass the ball to where he wants to pass it.

However, matches don't work like that. Players get put under pressure, opponents do their best to cut out opportunities to pass, players need to pass to someone, so just being able to play a pass somewhere says nothing about how well the player will pass the ball in many match situations.

It's not enough to just pass the ball where you want it to go - if the opponent is in the way, it still won't get there. This is where the other attributes come into play. For example decisions will help a player to choose to pass to the right player and to play the ball in the right place (to feet, into space etc.). The passing attribute will then decide how well the pass is played. If the pass is difficult for technical reasons (volley, under pressure, one-touch pass etc.) then technique is also far more important. You can be the best passer of a ball on the floor to an unmarked opponent, but if your technique is terrible, you'll never pull the more difficult moves off.

If you think about it a bit, it makes sense. A player with good long shots given lots of space will probably put the ball on target. But if you want to spectacularly volley the ball from outside the box first time into the top corner under pressure, you need the right technique. That's why you see a lot of players (IRL) balloon the ball over the crossbar when they try the spectacular - they strike the ball all wrong. So don't just view the technical attributes in isolation. Good technique will really help your players in a variety of situations, and is always one of the attributes I look at in a player that I want to do more than just lump the ball upfield/out of play/play the easy pass.