The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

To be honest: This is the first time I am writing a post on creating tactics. So please forgive me the length of the post or if it gets kind of complicated... But I want you to understand my thoughts and observations on FM08. Maybe this is just a fixed idea, maybe I am onto something. You decide. I'll be happy to get some feedback on it.

// A short look back

I play FM since CM 03/04, always looking for ideas on tactics and aspects of the game in forums, trying to implement what I think makes sense into my games.

Examples: I used the RoT with great success (FM06+07). I did try RoO in FM07 (for me without much success). And also one of the best and most helpful insights into the game - the observations from Abramovic on the AI tactical behaviour, which I think were outstanding (thank you).

But, as with every generation of the game, SI eliminates the holes that are found. In FM08 I started with huge problems creating a tactic that works well. RoT was too wide. RoO was too offensive or too defensive. AI could not be observed anymore. Heavy closing-down worked well in the first place, but not reliably. I played teams from different leagues and countries. But there was no theory that delivered consistent results.

So I started a game with a mid/lower-table German team (Frankfurt) that in FM lacks quality in several parts of the squad. My goal was to rebuild the squad with young players with good potential and some loans and to build a tactic around them that starts with a tight defense and quick players being able to play successful counters. The first season went quite well using a 4-4-2 and some of the ideas out of this forum. I even reached a position to play internationally the second season.

Then re-ranking came... Season 2 started with one defeat after another. The midfield was uninspired and ineffective, my strikers did not score, my defense had huge gaps, the whole formation was anything but tight, especially against defensive-minded opponents.

I then started to replay some of the defeats tons of times, trying to tweak one detail after another, to find a solid framework before moving on. I tried split mentalities for defense, midfield and attack. But as wwfan already described in „TT&F IV“ I still had gaps in or behind my defense. I tried global mentality with one striker high on attacking, as assumed in the „AI tactical behaviour“. But the the defense regularly went out of position. The sliders and mirroring went up and down - but there was no way, I could produce results for more than 3 games.

That was when I thought about taking a look into actual football tactics and strategy, to get some inspiration or ideas on how to solve this problem. Knowing, that some of them might not be translated into the game. But after a while something happened...

// A look into real life

In football today, the team as a whole has to try to defend, build up play and attack as a whole while being in a constant movement. Attackers have defensive duties, defenders should be able to open up play etc.

A lot of the successful teams use the so called Team Defense. They defend all together to get pressure on the ball at all times and to regain shape quickly, when one of the defending players is beaten. When the ball is won, they work together to bring the ball back into attack as effectively as possible.

The system is mainly based on possession, meaning moving the ball to a player with more space at all times, having at least two options available for the player with the ball (triangular movement).

So the style of play has to be variable and cannot be direct, as long passes to the attackers would have the forwards being outnumbered by the opposing defenders.

=> Passing: mixed or short

=> Mentalities: possibly close together

Team Defense is based on the Pressure-Cover-Balance positioning. The defender closest (1st defender) to the ball has to put Pressure on the ball, to possibly tackle the ball and to disturb the attack in order to prevent the attacker from shooting and/or gaining possession.

The second-closest defender has to provide Cover, to either become the pressure player, if the first one is beaten or to mark off another attacker.

The defender closest to the goal (and all other players) has to provide Balance, meaning additional cover for the other two with an eye to additional attackers, who might try to run at space behind the defense.

This theory does not apply to the defenders only, but to the whole team. A midfielder has to become a pressuring defender, when he realizes that he is closest to the ball. And he needs to run back in order to provide cover for the defender behind in case he might be beaten.

This type of positonal play can not be used by a man-on-man team defense. This requires a good zonal defense.

=> Marking: zonal

The distance between the defensive line and the midfield line/diamond should be kept constant. With pressure on the opponent, the distance can be reduced. When the opponents move close to the penalty area, even the midfielders should move back. But when there is no pressure on the opponent, the defensive line should stand off (stay back) in order to avoid through balls.

So the defending team will offer low resistance, until the attacking team has reached a certain height on the pitch.

=> Closing-down: own half (upfront) to stand off (center-backs)

This system is one of the reasons, more and more teams successfully use a (or even two) defensive midfielders, often in a diamond formation or least behind the offensive midfielder. This position is crucial to make sure the offense is stopped even before the attacker reaches the defensive line. Examples: Makelele, Heargraves, Flamini, Mascherano, Frings etc.

With this tactic and a really good (and fast) team it is even possible to push up the defense far. Because even if an attacker beats the offside trap, the defense still has time to chase the striker before he is able to round the keeper.

=> Formation: diamond (4-1-2-1-2) with farrows on outside players/wingers instead of flat 4-4-2

=> Closing-down high for DMC

Now to the attacking part of this formation. In a flat back 4 with Team Defense, the general idea is to have two central defenders with mainly defensive duties, marking the center and playing out wide to stretch out the other teams attackers. And two fullbacks supporting the attack coming in from their side (as seen in the last pic above)- a set-up that was used in RoT with mentality higher than the DMC, making it possible to overlap.

The midfield is split into the DMC with a defensive role supporting the central defenders and covering the space behind the FBs when they are attacking. But also becoming part of the attack and creating play, when having possession. Together with the more creative MC/AMC who controls the tempo of the game upfront and is able to make dangerous moves behind the two strikers (offensive), while stopping the opponents midfield to easily pass the hole in the formations center (defensive).

=> FBs should primary have an attacking role (when „team defense“ is working...)

=> DMC positions defensively but cannot be on defensive mentality alone.

The two outside/wing players need to dominate the flanks and should play wide. Although some people tend to use them as forwards #3 and #4 sometimes with a higher mentality than one of the strikers, I think this is dangerous as they then open up the wings for the opponents. For me they have to close down the flanks for the opponents wingers and/or fullbacks and provide cover (defensive) for their own fullbacks when overlapping.

And at the same time (or even more so) they are build-up players that have to create scoring opportunities (offensive). In the first place for the strikers, not for themselves. (Different story when playing with 1 respectively 3 strikers, which I haven’t tested yet.)

=> Wingers need high closing-down and low creativity.

=> Wingers mentality must be lower than strikers.

The forwards mainly have attacking duties. Drag defenders out of the defensive line, use spaces. But help disturbing the opponents’ build-up-play if possible.

=> Mentalities both on attacking (if using target man, not on team average mentality!)

// A look at the framework

So where does all that lead to? I call it the „2-6-2 Rule“.

My assumption was, that not only the mentality setting in the instructions has an influence on the players’ play, but also the positioning on the pitch. Examples: Strikers with mentality on normal or defensive still try to shoot on goal. Defenders with mentality on attacking still do not stand in the opponent’s penalty area.

In order to get a tight formation and keep the players together to offer multiple passing options, the 6 central players involved in defense and offense get the same (team) mentality. Only the center-backs are purely defensive. Only the strikers are purely attacking. But both not to the ultimate extent (3 klicks from left, 3 klicks from right) to keep them closer to the rest of the team and let them help in the build-up play.

Mentality settings then look like this:

GK - team (or individual setting defensive to normal)

DC - defensive (3)

DC - defensive (3)

FBR - team

FBL - team

DMC - team

MR - team

ML - team

AMC - team

FR - attacking (17)

FL - attacking (17)

As the team mentality can be influenced via the team instructions slider, the mentalities of the central players of the team can now easily be tweaked according to the style of play, the opponent and the game situation. Even without changing the whole tactics.

For home games and counter attacking I use team mentality of 16, which is 2 klicks into attacking.

For away games attacking I use team mentality of 15, tougher ones 14.

For controlling the game I use mentality from 13 downwards (normal).

For defending a lead, the team mentality goes down to defensive (but only at the end of the game).

(If defending vs. a strong team, sliding down creative freedom, RwB and FwdR is still helpfull.)

With my team this produces a tight defense with no gaps in between. Although the DCs seem to be far away from the midfield when looking at the mentality setting, in the game they have the correct distance to the FBs and the DMC. The midfield comes back to help out the defense when the opponents enter the last third of the pitch, but is also upfront creating chances for the strikers when attacking.

Same with the strikers. Their role is to attack and get goals. So they stay upfront nearly all the times. But using these settings I have observed that they also get back two thirds of the field if needed. And as the AI nearly always leaves 2 to 3 defenders in their own half, you cannot get outnumbered in your own half.

// A look at the settings

For the other settings, I will write down, what is important and/or worked for my team and my favourite style of play. Other settings may be possible, up to further testing. I prefer to give you the idea and the framework instead of a downloadable tac-file that might not suit your players. I also would like to do some more testing.

TEAM INSTRUCTIONS:

Team creative freedom is normal (10-12). I did not have many creative or skilled players at the beginnning and wanted them to stick to my setting.

Team passing style is lowest mixed (7). As described.

Tempo and width are set individually for the different situations and preferred styles of play. I use high for attacking, upper normal for counter, lower normal or low for high possession.

Team closing-down is on own-half (12). As described. I experimented with setting it on often, it did not work! I also tried to mirror the individual closing-down settings with mentality 2-6-2 - a disaster. There need to be more differentiations I suppose.

Time wasting is always on lower mixed and works well for me. A higher setting would need some testing, I just do not like to play with high time-wasting. I also tried setting time wasting to rarely - next disaster. Although being close to each other, the passes often arrived at the opponent's feet...

Defensive line is also depending on the situation, style of play - and the quality of the defense. I use higher normal (plus offside trap) when attacking, medium normal with counter, lower normal when playing tough opponents.

Tackling is normal, passing focus mixed, marking zonal, without tight marking! I tick the target man box and play to feet or mixed (as I do not have a striker outstanding in heading).

At the moment I am using a set of 3 tactics: home, away, counter (also works at home vs. arch rivals...). Making them more or less attacking with the team mentality slider, depending on the quality of the opposition.

KEY INDIVIDUAL INSTRUCTIONS:

GK

CF 2

PS team

CD 11

Tack normal

TTB mixed

Rest rarely

Cross from mixed

Distribution depending on his strengths

DCs

CF 2

PS 11

CD 5

Tack normal

TTB normal

Rest rarely

Cross from deep

FBs

CF 6

PS 9

CD 9 or 10

Tack hard

FwR often

RwB mixed

Long rarely

TTB often

Cross often

Cross from deep (away/counter), mixed (home)

Tight marking!

DMC

CF 5 (defensive/holding play) 7 (attacking)

PS team

CD whole pitch (to attack earlier than the defensive line)

Tack normal

FwR rarely (away/counter), mixed (home)

RwB rarely

Long depending on stats

TTB often

Cross mixed

Tight marking only w/counter in tough games or when defending (watch out for yellow cards!)

Wingers

CF 6 (I want them to stick to the sideline and only create chances!!!)

PS team

CD whole pitch (to close down the sidelines)

Tack team

FwR often

RwB mixed when attacking, often when on counter

Long rarely, but depending on stats

TTB often, mixed on tough away games

Cross often

Cross from byline (home), mixed (counter/away)

AMC

CF much

PS short

CD 11

Tack normal

FwR often

RwB often

Long rarely, depending on stats

TTB often

Cross mixed/rarely

Strikers

For them I made good experiences, using the preset settings for target man and striker in the game. Apart from mentality of course. Only tweaks to their instructions:

Striker crosses from mixed, cross aim is far post, closing down is low on „own area“.

Target man crosses from byline, closing down is on own half (12), no hold-up ball when on counter!

// A short look into training and persistence

Using this setting the players need a good fitness level, especially the midfielders. Three reasons for that: The formation is pretty tight, so they have to run up and down the pitch. They play a variable passing game, so they have to be in a constant movement to create passing options. They try to drag the opposition out of position and might get tackled a little more than usual. So please beware.

When I started with the tactics, my teams needed 3 to 4 games, to get the idea and play as I wanted. So if you choose to give it a try please don’t give up after 2 games.

// A look ahead

That’s about it. I hope the explanation is kind of clear. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions, though I can't be online all the time. Apart from that, feedback on the theory and the settings is more than welcome.

This whole thing was developed on 8.01. I tested this framework in games with my team for more than one season, but did not have the time to finish the second yet. The results of the first half season I used it:

I also tried the tactic with AC Milan in an older 8.0 game for a little more than half a season and it worked a treat. I have not tried to use the 2-6-2 with a flat 4-4-2 or formations without 2 strikers. This is subject to testing in the future.

Cheers.

Great feckin post, top work

I hope this leads to some discussion at last

god damn what a post!

top class sh/t.

it's quite how I play but flat 4-4-2

did you try increasing everyone's run with ball; FB, Wingers, Strikers to often. DC- mixed, MC- mixed to often. pretty much same with through balls.

Good read! One of the best and most inspiring post I've seen in a long time. Really good work mate.

Im trying it, seems to be pretty good.

Much more organised in defence...

Looking forward to trying this with a LLM.

goddamn what a post, nice work my man, you've just saved me about 3 days worth of tweaking! great stuff

Just tested this with Arsenal. I lost to Chelsea 2-1 away BUT i was impressed with how much tighter the defense looked and the balance of the team.. They scored from a Penalty and Corner so i was unlucky to lose. I will continue to test this.. Great help mate, much appreciated with the time you have put in to this thread. One question though.. On player instructions do they have there only mentality setting or just team settings and if so what should the slider be on?

Thanks again!

great theory! But find myself leaking some goals throuh the middle. and if my DM is beat when having high CD i find there is not much i can do.

So when you talk about defensive comfort and cover i wonder how. Or maybe my setup is wrong, but thats not likely. Anyway seen som great results.

But what is your ultimate setup for a difficult away game?

Guys, thank you for trying, for the positive comments and feedback.

@Mitja

Yes and no. I used to have RwB often for the strikers, but it somehow did not work as well as the lower setting. I use it often for the wingers at the moment and just change settings for "cross from". That is "from mixed" at home and on counters - because I want to have them closer to the midfield and FBs. And "from byline" when away - to get behind the oppositions defense. Works well.

For FBs you can put it on often when they have good attacking stats, tested it. For DMC I did not try as this was my weakest point in the squad . And I guess, I would not do it for the DCs, because I prefer to play quite attacking. When the DCs start running out of position, there is no one left at the back.

TTB is on often with many players. Did not try it with DCs - I am afraid, they start passing too long instead of possession friendly passes to the sides...

@rolo

Oops, sorry it did not help against the Blues. To your question - yes, apart from DCs (3) and strikers (17) all players have mentality set on "team". The settings for DCs and Strikers stay untouched, and in the team instructions the slider for mentality can be varied. As described above, I would use a counter attacking style vs. Chelsea with team mentality set to 13 or 14. All other player instructions are set individually (see pics below).

@Alexio

Thanks for trying it. When the DMC is beaten there should be both DCs covering him up. They have a lower mentality, much lower closing-down and their position is behind him. That's why they are set they way I described. At the beginning I also had problems wiht the DMC position, but that changed, when I got a better DMC with better stats in positioning, marking, anticipation and teamwork.

For the difficult away game, I would use the setup I described to rolo. Counter attacking with mentality to normal or low attacking (depending on the teams quality). I will put a picture of the team settings I use for counters vs. stronger teams up here, together with the individual mentality sliders. And also the individual closing-down settings as those are the most important. That might make it clearer.

Hope that helps you.

Tight little tactic here. I've found it's very reliable at stopping opponents, managed a lot of 1-0s, 2-0s and 0-0s. Lots of yellow cards though, and most of the goals are coming from set pieces (for me at least).

Do the wingers score many goals in this tactic?

what a great thread especially with the pictures!! Awsome work.

It seems to work well, my team suited to this nicely when I tried it for a game away at Everton. We controlled quite well but the defence I found wasn't really tight, and we lost 3-2. The team did well though, but the main weak point of this appears to be in the centre of defence and it can get overloaded.

Team ended up will full 7 ratings, 8's for AMC and both forwards, but the centre backs were on 6. I think if they could be tightened up, you could be on to a winner.

Great post by the way, very thorough explanation.

Replayed the game again, as I'm only tactic testing on this save and we won 3-0, I put the centre backs on Man Marking

Great, great post.

Anyone want to post this tactic allowing everyone to try it out a bit easier?

Thanks a lot for the post. I wondered if you could go into more detail about what 'default settings' you used for the strikers. The default sliders for the Diamond Attacking standard tactic are all set to mixed. Is that what you mean? Do you hold up the ball with the striker when not counterattacking?

My strikers are Bogdan Stancu and Jimmy Briand and I'm desperate to get the best out of them, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

Originally posted by jeffp:

Thanks a lot for the post. I wondered if you could go into more detail about what 'default settings' you used for the strikers. The default sliders for the Diamond Attacking standard tactic are all set to mixed. Is that what you mean? Do you hold up the ball with the striker when not counterattacking?

Go into the striker's options for one of them. Look at the top right corner of the window and you should see a "Set To" button which lets you have a drop down, click the "Target Man" or "Striker" to set the guy you're on to whichever.

My strikers are Bogdan Stancu and Jimmy Briand and I'm desperate to get the best out of them, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

Stupid you can't edit your own posts.

I messed that post up, what I meant to stay @ jeffp was:

Go into the striker's options for one of them. Look at the top right corner of the window and you should see a "Set To" button which lets you have a drop down, click the "Target Man" or "Striker" to set the guy you're on to whichever.

zagallo-are u going to upload these tactics so we can try them

Thanks, Flibby7! I kinda feel like an idiot that I've played different versions of this game for a few years now and never noticed that drop down menu...

Originally posted by kroshot:

zagallo-are u going to upload these tactics so we can try them

I hope he doesn't. the point is to understand the tactics not just download it. sorry if I'm being rude.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6264/styf8.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6990/tifx9.jpg

I'm new to hosting. sorry

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stct9.jpg

Ok, I've tweaked mine a bit to have my AMC with a fwd arrow between the two strikers, because it's van der vaart i put him on free role and he runs a muck.

I had also noticed the same problem with my DMC, a good team like Man Utd with a striker and two wide attacking options spreads my defence right out and they pick holes through it.

Bit in the last two practice games I had against average opposition I won 2-0 and 4-0, beat another team 4-1 away from home, and 2-2 at home with Man U.

I like it

hi..any chance you can upload the tactics please?

Hi zagallo,

First off, fantastic post! I've been reading these forums off and on for a little while now and I have to say this is the best thing I've seen by far.

I've been using similar principles in my tactics, but mainly focused on the flanks; with the wingers pressuring, fullbacks covering and centrebacks providing balance and it's worked well so far.

There's just one slight disagreement I have with what you've said about pressure-cover-balance only working with a zonal defence. I think in most cases you're correct, but in a 442 it is possible to provide the pressure-cover-balance on the flanks using man marking.

If you choose man marking the wingers and fullbacks both mark the opposition winger by default, so you can have the winger provide pressure and the fullback provide cover, while the centreback can provide the balance.

This is how I have it set up on e.g. the right flank:

MR - closing down: 18

DR - closing down: 13

DC - closing down: 8

and all set to man marking.

The closing down is staggered in fives always, so if I increase one I increase all by the same amount.

The higher closing down on the MR makes sure he challenges first when the opposition winger is near the halfway line, and gets back and challenges second when the winger is nearer to goal.

I think it may even be possible to repeat this in other areas of the field e.g. on the fullback having him double marked by your FC and MR to give pressure-cover-balance in specific areas of the field, though I've never experimented with this.

I was going to post on another FM forum an idea I've been trying out about how to have your team defend from the front the way that Van Gaal does in real life and was wondering if it would be alright to mention your post as some of the ideas are very similar and you've done such a great job of explaining them.

Wow, I've gone on a bit longer than I meant to. Again brilliant work, this is the best FM thing I've seen in a very long time, maybe ever.

After alot of testing it doesnt seem to work for me.. i have stuck to your rules and ocassionly tweaked it from time to time but my team doesnt seem to gel into it.

Any ideas why?

Great post Zagallo, we need more tactical writers like yourself which diagram their ideas, it really helps visualise the ideas your trying to put across.

In developing my own 3-3-2-2 tactic over the last couple of months I seemed to of configured them similarly to your 2-6-2 methodoligy but mine was more of a haphazzard approach then your well thought-out style. I might tweak my own tactic to some of your findings and see if I can get it to perform better.

For those of you who seems to be struggleling defensivily, put your DMC/MCd at the same mentality as your CB, and decrease CD on your fullbacks.

I have also changed the formation slightly to get more balance in midfield. Has worked extremly well so far even tho i am using a 3 5 2 mentality system. Not saying this is better, but think a lot of weaker teams could benifit from this approach.

For those of you who seems to be struggleling defensivily, put your DMC/MCd at the same mentality as your CB, and decrease CD on your fullbacks.

I have also changed the formation slightly to get more balance in midfield. Has worked extremly well so far even tho i am using a 3 5 2 mentality system. Not saying this is better, but think a lot of weaker teams could benifit from this approach.

Hi Alexio..please up load tactic...i wish to play 3-5-2 but can't get the balance right on this tactic...

First off, count me in to the "awesome post" praisers category

I started using your tactic with my 2022 Lazio

It took a few games to get used to it but now it's starting to produce.

What settings do you use for set pieces? or else, can any of you guys guide me to a post regarding how to set up set pieces 'cause i couldn't find one yet.

Thanks!

Can I just say a great first post on tactics

I don't tend to read many threads that I actually enjoy or find that inspire me, but this one came up trumps. Nice one mate

Great thread. I'll try to save the Premiership status of my Sheffield Utd with your theories.

Well done, zagallo a well presented concept.

I think you might have problems with a flat midfield and the opposition exploiting space in front of your centre backs. Playing with a withdrawn striker and a fast striker the AI will punish you unless you have a very good central defensive pairing.

In terms of the forward line a staggard pairing can be very effective, so recommend putting the right sided forward on the team mentality also.

Any thoughts on the whether you would consider this system incompatible with playing the offside trap?

Wow, what a feedback... I’m amazed, thank you again, guys.

I will try to answer some questions now and hope not to forget anyone.

@ Frag

No, the wingers in my game do not score very often. But from time to time they place a shot on goal succesfully, when they change sides quickly with a long pass.

@kroshot and OCDPOKER

Sorry, no, at the moment I will not upload any tactic. The feedback right here convinces me even more, that this is not „the“ super-tactic that can be copy/pasted for every team - which wasn’t my intention in the first place, as I do not believe there is... So an upload would not make sense, at least right now.

My goal was to find a framework, that might help to play a certain style of play, that creates chances and is tight in the back. For some it seems to work for others it doesn’t. But there are plenty of ideas on how to improve - and that is what I would like to try first.

@Mitja

Sorry, that you are not successful. Took a look at your team set-up and found 3 things you might want to try. 1. There is no player set to attacking. At least the FC should be, in order to grab a goal. 2. Your team is set to direct passing. Although it is useful when playing a counter, it is contradictory to possession based play. The players spend much less time with the ball before passing, but the aim of possession is to retain control. 3. In FM08 I never played well when I used passing „down both flanks“. I don’t know why. But actually with my setup the play often goes via the flanks without ticking it.

Anyway, probably your results are also a hint, that the framwork does not work with a 4-1-4-1 formation. As I said, I did not test it with a single striker yet. For trying it, I thought of using a 4-2-3-1 formation as it is also possession friendly, because it dominates midfield. There I would set the FC and AMC to attacking and the rest following the 2-6-2. But I’m talking untested future now...

@joepublic

Thank you. And yes, I see it the same way you do. Although Pressure-Cover-Balance is mainly based on zonal marking, there will still be situations where the team has to defend one-on-one and man-mark a player. To be honest, I did not try it in the game, because I was afraid that putting some players on man-marking would destroy the positional play and formation at some place. But anyway - your set-up sounds reasonable to me. I think I should also give it a try soon. Thanks.

To your question: Sure, feel free to mention the post if it helps you. I haven’t invented it - I just put together what might be helpful and made some connections.

@rolo

Ahem... no idea, sorry.

@Alexio

Great idea, haven’t tested that. Hope it keeps on working.

@aaaaaaa

For corners there is a thread in this forum called „The art of corners“. I use this routine and it works well for me. For free kicks I have not found a convincing set-up. Right now I am trying „cross center“ with medium success... Throw-ins are set to long.

@Cleon

Thanks a lot for the kind words! Wow.

@rymdgubben

Good luck. Hope it works.

@Leroy1883

Thank you. I see it the same way with the flat midfield. They might rip the defense apart...

To the forwards: I actually started this set-up coming from the RoT with „overlapping“ mentalities. So I put the target man (right side) on team mentality, the other striker and the AMC to attacking. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. But I will try your suggestion with the target man behind. Thanks for the idea.

To offside trap: No not at all. It works with offside-trap and defensive line high. I have tried it. But you need DCs with good anticipation, teamwork and agility. In case the offside-trap is beaten, they have to chase the striker immediately before he reaches the keeper. The more the defiensive line is up the filed though, the more time they have to get him...

thanks for such a big help.

I'm gonna put Benni on att mentality, right awey. santa cruz target man?

you're not gonna convince me off direct passing I know it isn't posession based, it's that I want to play that way. I like quick direct style as it is played in premiership and I know I'm gonna manage it...

gonna try focus my passing to mixed, even if it's logical to play on wings on flat 4-4-2.

A really well thought out post. A lot of what you say makes very good sense, I like the idea of closing down own half as thats how all my tactics are now set up. The only difference lies in how attacking my tactic is. The higher my defensive line and the more attacking my team mentality is...the higher the closing down is in own half.

By keeping width normal, you're straddling between playing thru the middle or down the flanks. And that is also good.

On the whole, a very well thought out post. KUTGW

Hi Zagallo,

I've been reading this thread with great interest, and I've applied your 2-6-2 rule to my Milan side in the middle of 1st season. It won me the Serie A and UCL..

One question though.. The 442 diamond (based on the 262 rule) works fine against all formations but one, the 4-3-2-1 christmas tree used by Fiorentina. I lost 3 of 4 matches against Fiorentina in first season..

Do you have any ideas of another tactic (based on the 262 rule) that can counter this 4321 tactic? Because i think the extra 2 AMCs in the 4321 tactic simply outnumbered and beat the holding DMC in your 442 diamond, and this is the point where all the problems begin.. Once again, thanks Zagallo!

Hi Zagallo,

What kind of strikers you think suit best this kind of tactic. You have other striker set as targetman(feet/mixed) and other as striker if I undestand correctly. I am just curious if you think some stats are necessary for both roles?

Also do you tick counter attack only in counter tactic?

Thanks in advance. Nice post! One of the best I have seen in the forum!

A great read here.

How would you apply this to a 4 1 4 1 formation?

It becomes a 2-7-1 system

Little update on my experiment:

I picked Braga from Portugal and won all friendlies against weaker opponents.

First match home against Academica. I lost 0-1 Academica scored from corner. I got only 5 shots on target compared to Academicas 8.

Second match away lost 1-0 again. Opponent got 15shots on goal and I got 8.

Third match home against Benfica. I lost 0-1. Benfica scored from corner and totally dominated the match.

In first game I used home tactic and 2nd&3rd game counter. It is not yet working for me but I will give it a time. I cant get into good scoring positions and opponents get quite much chances. So my players need to improve in both ends of the pitch.

I would perhaps need some new training schedules as it seems my players are declining in stats.

Wow! Wow, wow, wow.

What a great post. If i'm not mistaken you must have done your fa coaching certificate or equivalent, and i must say you have described the basis of defending via pressure, cover and balance superbly well. Its one thing to do this in practise with demonstrations, quite another with just words and pictures. I suggest you stop playing these sill computer games and get back on the coaching circuit if you're not there already

serioulsy though, i love the way you have devised this tactic based on real life, rather than looking for flaws in the game engine. It is something i have been trying to do for ages but cant seem to translate the real life theories into sliders. i had taken a break from fm08 until the next patch but you have inspired me to start a new game which is loading right now. i look forward to trying your methods and will report back with any findings.

good work

@rashidi1

Thank you. I have read a lot of your posts about creating tactics - and liked them a lot. I actually used a variable closing-down successfully in my first season. But after re-ranking my team just couldn’t keep it up. That’s why I had to find a different way...

@real_pervert

Great success with Milan. Congrats. I feel this setup is kind of made for this team... Keep it up.

I haven’t used it against a christmas tree yet. Did the attacks come from the flanks or from the center?

I would try to find the hole and try to fill it. For now there are only two thoughts that might help you:

1. I have tried the ideas from Leroy1883 and Alexio in a very tough away game. I put the DMC on the same mentality as the DCs and the target man on team mentality. So the 2-6-2 becomes a 3-6-1 then. Worked quite well. Don’t know if it helps vs. 4-3-2-1.

2. What could be helpful is if you push the AMC back into the MC position. Either by putting him there or by giving him a back arrow while keeping the same player instructions. That way he might support the DMC more and can reduce the hole in midfield. I tested this tweak when playing against stronger sides having a good DMC. That way the (A)MC had more space to build up play and/or draw the DMC away from defense. I know that the 4-3-2-1 uses no DMC, but I would try this.

@yugular

In my game, I use a fast paced striker with good dribbling stats on the left side (Cesar Delgado for whom the club spent nearly all the transfer budget in the first season...). That works well. The target man on the right side should be a center forward, but at the beginning I had to live with the strikers in the team or some youngsters who could not perform consistently. For some time I had to use a in-and-out striker there - he was doing okay, but not great. At the moment I use Stancu on the right and he grabbed 13 goals last half season. I guess goalpoachers and classic target men (using „mixed“) work best there. At the moment I try to get Luca Toni into the team - I wonder how he will perform if it works out.

And yes, I only used counter in counter tactic. But sometimes I also use the counter tactic when playing at home. Works, too.

To your update: Strange, it seems like this set-up works for some teams and for some others it simply doesn’t. Don’t understand why, but I’m interested in how your season works out.

@Filbert Fox

As said before, I did not try this framework with a single striker or even a 4-1-4-1. So I cannot give you any clear advice, sorry. But whenever I used a 4-1-4-1, I put lots of players on through balls and the striker on „run to ball“. Wingers crossing on mixedor low and from mixed or deep. So that most players stay back and the striker and an offensive midfielder do counters. But again, that is just my understanding of grabbing some goals with a more defensive formation. It is not tested nor tuned for 2-6-2!

@theboywonder

lol, thank you. But I can assure you that I am not taking part in the coaching circuit. Actually I wasn’t sure whether it would be possible to translate real life into the game. The only time I saw that this really worked out was when some guy built van Gaals Ajax tactic into CM03/04... Anyway, hope it works for you. Good luck. Can’t wait to get your feedback.

very good for home games, using the attacking options such as:

I use higher normal (plus offside trap) when attacking for defensive line

but i am conceding alot in away games, dunno if it is the fact im sheff wed, but it aint going too good. Conceded 7 in 2 away games.

The mentality framework is a brilliant idea, well done on a fantastic post mate.

I've tried many a mentality system on FM08 so far and did manage to find a couple that worked really well. However, after testing yours I think I can safely say that your mentality system is the best I have used on FM08 and it all makes perfect sense now that I think about it.

Only sort of tweak I have made to your mentality system is that I've altered it to a 2-7-1 system as I personally prefer to use a 4-3-3 formation. Personally I'm not a fan of the 4-4-2 diamond system that uses wingers as I feel it leaves you too exposed in the middle of the field.

So far I've tested your mentality framework with Airdrie United in the Scottish Division 2 and convincingly won the league, unbeaten all season in the league with only 7 draws, won the Challenge Cup, Semi Final of League Cup and 5th Round of Scottish Cup, not bad for a level 3 side.

Thanks for your brilliant post, you clearly have a very good understanding of football, thanks for helping to translate that into FM tactics, which can be difficult at times.

Going to test this in France now, probably in the 2nd division, will let you know how I go in future.

It cannot put the tactic downloand?