I actually find FM11 unplayable!

I was AS Saint Etienne, a team who should be coming 8th in the table with the players they have....

I play a Lone Striker Formation, which makes me top of the league at early November. So myself, the players, the fans and the board are loving how well the team is doing. Then suddenly I find myself with struggling to win a game. It became late febuary since my last win in November, plumiting down the table to 12th. My lone striker who has played every game, hasnt scored December, except for Cup matches, despite having about 2 CCCs a game....

The fact that the game suddenly turned against e forced me to Quit. I know I know, very weak, etc... Yet it really did tell me that what is the point of playing FM if Patch 11.2.1 is so unpredicatble...

If you are wondering, no It was not a drop in morale. I rotated my sqaud perfectly and only bought one player, who was Micheal Rensing due to no transfer budget.

I'm sorry to hear that.

And before someone comes in here and says 'its your tactics'......i just wanna ask wat have you dont to try and fix the situation?

I'm sorry to hear that.

And before someone comes in here and says 'its your tactics'......i just wanna ask wat have you dont to try and fix the situation?

For my striker I have been tweaking his FWR, RWB and LS sliders, along with Mentality changing. Then Defensive line and Tempo changes once form dropped. Though, I didnt tweak it initailly, I was doing so well.

Firstly, overconfidence caused the initial sudden inexplicable loss of form.

The only way out of a slump is to somehow fluke a win and try to build on that. Some people say you should go defensive in these situations but I don't. Be low pressure before matches and positive afterwards, even if you lose. I try playing my striker in the reserves (if you have them) to get a few goals. Strikers like goals.

4-5-1 is a very precarious formation at the best of times, it needs to be fluid to switch to a 4-3-3 on attacks to be dangerous all the time, and you need to be very careful how you handle a defeat and the team talks you give. It's a fine line between bouncing back and going a long time without another win, in the early parts of the season your tactics were an unknown quantity, morale was high from results so what you were saying didn't matter too much. If your striker was playing on the shoulder of the last defender he may have been breaking through with a chipped pass or been able to easily get beyond them with the ball, from there on in its easy to create chance after chance.

After a while the natural adaptation of teams to your tactics is to drop the defence deeper. So, whereas before he was on the shoulder of the defender with say his 14 notches on attacking, he's now playing 5 yards infront of the defenders. The new patch does change things, which likely affects how the AI deals with your formation. Look to your wide men, are they still helping out as much in attacks, what team talks have you used, what do you say in pre-match press conferences, when your striker was doing well did you praise him with private conversations? These things all help sustain the form, the general mould for team talks I've seen this year is 6.9 and below you use none at half time and full time, 7.0 - 7.9 is pleased and 8.0+ is delighted. I rarely give 'team' talks any more but a series of individual talks to those deserving them.

Fitness is another big issue, going into games on 92% is very different from 98/99%. If you have 2 fixtures in a week, give some players a rest for 1 or 2 days. It rejuvenates them, and in times of dense fixtures (not sure how bad france is through the winter) but in the premier league it makes a huge difference having your players at almost 100% for these games than the usual 90%. Not every player is the same, Ryan Shawcross at CB rarely if ever needs a rest for me, Rafinha at RB often needs 1 day rest before the next game unless there is a week between fixtures. At christmas Diego Tardelli barely trains because I keep him on rest for so long to keep him in prime condition to keep up the goalscoring.

If you know your team, see their strengths, their weaknesses you can utilise this to improve performance to no end. At first I was frustrated with FM too, I finished 11th the first season, with the same tactics, I delved more into the effects of team talks, realising the benefits of the none option, resting players from training and individual talks. The following season I finished 2nd with Stoke City. It wasn't down to some fantastic tactical revelation on my behalf, the tactics were always good its just the things which had been more superficial in the past now play a more prominent role.

Firstly, overconfidence caused the initial sudden inexplicable loss of form.

The only way out of a slump is to somehow fluke a win and try to build on that. Some people say you should go defensive in these situations but I don't. Be low pressure before matches and positive afterwards, even if you lose. I try playing my striker in the reserves (if you have them) to get a few goals. Strikers like goals.

My team talks we fine, infact, most of the time they helped me secure rather lathargic results...

4-5-1 is a very precarious formation at the best of times, it needs to be fluid to switch to a 4-3-3 on attacks to be dangerous all the time, and you need to be very careful how you handle a defeat and the team talks you give. It's a fine line between bouncing back and going a long time without another win, in the early parts of the season your tactics were an unknown quantity, morale was high from results so what you were saying didn't matter too much. If your striker was playing on the shoulder of the last defender he may have been breaking through with a chipped pass or been able to easily get beyond them with the ball, from there on in its easy to create chance after chance.

After a while the natural adaptation of teams to your tactics is to drop the defence deeper. So, whereas before he was on the shoulder of the defender with say his 14 notches on attacking, he's now playing 5 yards infront of the defenders. The new patch does change things, which likely affects how the AI deals with your formation. Look to your wide men, are they still helping out as much in attacks, what team talks have you used, what do you say in pre-match press conferences, when your striker was doing well did you praise him with private conversations? These things all help sustain the form, the general mould for team talks I've seen this year is 6.9 and below you use none at half time and full time, 7.0 - 7.9 is pleased and 8.0+ is delighted. I rarely give 'team' talks any more but a series of individual talks to those deserving them.

Fitness is another big issue, going into games on 92% is very different from 98/99%. If you have 2 fixtures in a week, give some players a rest for 1 or 2 days. It rejuvenates them, and in times of dense fixtures (not sure how bad france is through the winter) but in the premier league it makes a huge difference having your players at almost 100% for these games than the usual 90%. Not every player is the same, Ryan Shawcross at CB rarely if ever needs a rest for me, Rafinha at RB often needs 1 day rest before the next game unless there is a week between fixtures. At christmas Diego Tardelli barely trains because I keep him on rest for so long to keep him in prime condition to keep up the goalscoring.

If you know your team, see their strengths, their weaknesses you can utilise this to improve performance to no end. At first I was frustrated with FM too, I finished 11th the first season, with the same tactics, I delved more into the effects of team talks, realising the benefits of the none option, resting players from training and individual talks. The following season I finished 2nd with Stoke City. It wasn't down to some fantastic tactical revelation on my behalf, the tactics were always good its just the things which had been more superficial in the past now play a more prominent role.

I kow about the whole Condition side to FM, like I said in my OP, my rotation was basically perfect, I only whould play someone with Condition higher than 93%, maybe an odd exception on a player, as he was key....(ie. My Captain)

It's nothing to do with thetactical side, I would accpet that if it is. It's the constant missing of CCCs, and conceeding 40 yard wonder strikes in the last minute. I apriciate the post and the detail, but frankly it's not as complex as that.

Things like this make the game un-playable and un-enjoyable... for me

My team talks we fine, infact, most of the time they helped me secure rather lathargic results...

If you were securing results why did you go from 1st to 12th?

If you were securing results why did you go from 1st to 12th?

This is what the point of the thread is. How can team doing so well, become so enept? Striker not scoring, no matter how many CCCs? Keeper's mistakes, 24/7!

Note. Sorry I misread what you were saying... I mean Drawing matches, ie. against a team managing to equlise. It was on the rare occasion of course. Yet, I follow Wolfsberg's guide anyway, which is tried and trusted by everyone and myself...

Try press conferences, of pointing out weak links and etc, these do tend to help if used properly.

Try press conferences, of pointing out weak links and etc, these do tend to help if used properly.

Yeah, that may be something I was missing, yet surely, this can't be to blame?

I don't really know what you expect us to say Corkey but calling FM unplayable because you fell from 1st to 12th with a team that you claim should be finishing 8th is far from being an issue.

Something similar happens in every league in the world every season - teams have good runs & bad runs of form. Chelsea are the prime example of that this season having won just twice in their last ten premiership games.

I don't really know what you expect us to say Corkey but calling FM unplayable because you fell from 1st to 12th with a team that you claim should be finishing 8th is far from being an issue.

Something similar happens in every league in the world every season - teams have good runs & bad runs of form. Chelsea are the prime example of that this season having won just twice in their last ten premiership games.

Well I just find it extremly 'un-playable' as after all it is a game, and the fact that CCCs are being missed on such a regualr basis.... and other teams are sloting in difficult chances.... When I use the term un-playable, I would of thought people wouldn't take it literally, I think most people undertsand my point of veiw, and don't take the term 'literally'.

Well I just find it extremly 'un-playable' as after all it is a game, and the fact that CCCs are being missed on such a regualr basis.... and other teams are sloting in difficult chances.... When I use the term un-playable, I would of thought people wouldn't take it literally, I think most people undertsand my point of veiw, and don't take the term 'literally'.

Well to be honest it sounds more like you want a game where you win all the time by following a guide.

In terms of your CCCs being missed you need to consider two things:

A) Are your expectations too high? scoring one in every three or four is fairly normal although in a good run of form you can do better than that.

B) You need to closer look at your CCCs - Is it the same player missing them most of the time? Are they as good as the CCC stamp suggests they are?

If your expecting your lone striker to score most of your goals then what do you do when he is in poor form?

In terms of tactics chances are the AI teams have altered the way they are playing against you due to your good start to the season but you've failed to counter these changes and continue to stubbornly stick to your tactic/style of play.

EDIT

As for your last sentence I fully understand your point of view - you've lost a few games & thrown your toys out of your pram because your not winning.

Well to be honest it sounds more like you want a game where you win all the time by following a guide.

In terms of your CCCs being missed you need to consider two things:

A) Are your expectations too high? scoring one in every three or four is fairly normal although in a good run of form you can do better than that.

B) You need to closer look at your CCCs - Is it the same player missing them most of the time? Are they as good as the CCC stamp suggests they are?

If your expecting your lone striker to score most of your goals then what do you do when he is in poor form?

In terms of tactics chances are the AI teams have altered the way they are playing against you due to your good start to the season but you've failed to counter these changes and continue to stubbornly stick to your tactic/style of play.

EDIT

As for your last sentence I fully understand your point of view - you've lost a few games & thrown your toys out of your pram because your not winning.

When for, dropped, I made tweaks. Changing around the sliders. Not much difference to the orginal tactic. As for CCCs, yes, he really is missing the easiest chances. As for the morale issue, when he deos drop in morale, I have a private chat, so he becomes either 'Very Good' or 'Superb'.

Yes, I have 'Thrown my toys out fo the pram', becuase it's ridicoulous to think this has happened..., for no apparent reason.

Interestingly Corkey, although your assessment of AS Saint Etienne as "a team who should be coming 8th in the table with the players they have..." I've seen them struggle to avoid relegation twice, when browsing through the leagues I have loaded in my own save. 2010/11 they avoided relegation on the last day and 2011/12 they finished in the same league position, but four points above the relegation zone.

That said though, I often look at teams with more optimism than pessimism and believe that I can over-achieve. As others have said in this thread, your tactical approach may have worked initially, but there's many reasons why things have changed, though not all are particularly tactical.

You may have a few players who have poor character traits, lack determination compared to some of your opponents and struggle to get back into games once they're behind. It's important to identify these players early, because when things don't go to plan in matches, you've got to respond by boosting their morale at half-time, or substituting them. Pay particular attention to their motivation and performances during matches with the in-match widgets, because if they're key players and they're letting you down, your weaker players will become over-burdened and likely under-perform too.

Do think about pitch and weather conditions. An attacking, creative and flair based tactical approach won't perform anywhere near as well on a boggy pitch in the rain, as it will on a dry pitch in the sunshine. This is something I believe a lot of people neglect to take into account, because there does seem to be a trend of people posting their "woes" when it's winter in their in-game season, their teams dip in form between November and February. Although you don't need to change your formation or shape, it might be wise to get your team playing in a more simplified and basic way. Get them doing the basics well first when the pitches are poor quality an the weather isn't good. Consider a more conservative starting strategy, reducing creative freedom, more direct passing, even instruct players to stick to position by reducing roaming.

Different settings, "more" or "less" of something, will vary in effectiveness depending on your overall tactical outlook and the players of course, but you do have a lot more control over things than you might think.

Yes, I have 'Thrown my toys out fo the pram', becuase it's ridicoulous to think this has happened..., for no apparent reason.

Why do you think its ridiculous?

It happens in RL all the time in every sport. If you can't see or except that then there is really no point in discussing it further.

When for, dropped, I made tweaks. Changing around the sliders. Not much difference to the orginal tactic. As for CCCs, yes, he really is missing the easiest chances. As for the morale issue, when he deos drop in morale, I have a private chat, so he becomes either 'Very Good' or 'Superb'.

Do you use the sliders or the tactics creator btw?

Its difficult without seeing your tactics/matches etc but it sounds like you have a tactic where the lone striker gets most of the chances. If so then again you need to accept that players also have good/bad runs of form and having good morale doesn't mean they'll score all the time.

Also playing a one dimensional tactic where the most of the chances fall to the same player means its easier for the opposition to defend against.

To offer further advice the best thing to do would be for you to post up some screenshots of tactics/match stats etc.

Out of interest did you lose to a rival or a team going for the title to start your bad run?

I only ask because last season I won 11 and drew 2 with no loses then a lose against Arsenal zapped all the confidence from my side and I won one of the next 8 or 9 matches. This has happened a couple of times, after a defeat against a rival side my team crumbles for awhile until we manage to get back to back wins then we go on a huge run but it is all too late as Arsenal are too damn good.

So when your team were over achieving massively you didn't find a problem with the game? But now you're losing the game is unplayable? You need to learn to take the rough with the smooth, yes the players on the game are too sensitive to loses and over-confidence. But when your team had just the right amount of confidence, (i presume) you were beating teams that you had no right to beat? Swings and roundabouts

For my striker I have been tweaking his FWR, RWB and LS sliders, along with Mentality changing. Then Defensive line and Tempo changes once form dropped. Though, I didnt tweak it initailly, I was doing so well.

So you only tweaked your strikers tactics ? why not your defence for leaking in goals and your midfielders for not created better chances (not more, but better) ?

Also how about talking to certain players who aren't performing ? clearly not all 11 every week, but say 2 to 3 each week ? by pointing out obvious dips of form to players might actually improve them

Interestingly Corkey, although your assessment of AS Saint Etienne as "a team who should be coming 8th in the table with the players they have..." I've seen them struggle to avoid relegation twice, when browsing through the leagues I have loaded in my own save. 2010/11 they avoided relegation on the last day and 2011/12 they finished in the same league position, but four points above the relegation zone.

That said though, I often look at teams with more optimism than pessimism and believe that I can over-achieve. As others have said in this thread, your tactical approach may have worked initially, but there's many reasons why things have changed, though not all are particularly tactical.

You may have a few players who have poor character traits, lack determination compared to some of your opponents and struggle to get back into games once they're behind. It's important to identify these players early, because when things don't go to plan in matches, you've got to respond by boosting their morale at half-time, or substituting them. Pay particular attention to their motivation and performances during matches with the in-match widgets, because if they're key players and they're letting you down, your weaker players will become over-burdened and likely under-perform too.

Do think about pitch and weather conditions. An attacking, creative and flair based tactical approach won't perform anywhere near as well on a boggy pitch in the rain, as it will on a dry pitch in the sunshine. This is something I believe a lot of people neglect to take into account, because there does seem to be a trend of people posting their "woes" when it's winter in their in-game season, their teams dip in form between November and February. Although you don't need to change your formation or shape, it might be wise to get your team playing in a more simplified and basic way. Get them doing the basics well first when the pitches are poor quality an the weather isn't good. Consider a more conservative starting strategy, reducing creative freedom, more direct passing, even instruct players to stick to position by reducing roaming.

Different settings, "more" or "less" of something, will vary in effectiveness depending on your overall tactical outlook and the players of course, but you do have a lot more control over things than you might think.

Hmm, well I did some testing of various stuff, with Wigan. Saint Etienne finished 6th... They have good Wingers, a good Striker, a good Keeper, decent Defence. So there si no reason why they shouldn't be pushing high up the league. In all fairness, my team may not have the best Mental stats, in terms of Determination, etc... Yet, they aren't bad compared to other's in the league. I did origanally have a deufalt tactic, and one I used for easy/bad weather games. So that surely won't be the decisive factor. I'm also using 'Classic' set-up, so tweaking in the sense you say isn't a option.

@Cougar2010

There is normally a reason to why it happens. If you look at Chelsea this season, the dismissal of Ray Wilkins shock the Chelsea sqaud. Though, I really think you missing the point. My Striker is missing 1-3 CCCs per game... It's pretty outragous. I can stand the occasional bad day, yet surely not every day?!?!?!

As for the Tactic, It's a 4-2-3-1. It uses the Striker to score, along with the Wingers. The AMC as the playmaker, and 2 MCs. Like I siad earlier, I'm using 'Classic' approach.

@Acidburn

I had lost to Lyon 0-1 (A), my rivals, and drew to Marseille (D). Though the intial drop in form came after these results, to which fans weren't too anoyed about it, and were happy about the draw to Marseille. So I'm confident that this isn't a problem

@Mattcoll12491

It's not that at all. I was absoultuly thrilled to be 1st place, though to be honest my team in my opinion are capable of a top 4 finish. Like I've said, this isn't about why my team is suddenly playing how they should, and I hate it. It's about how my striker is missing constant CCC, and the oppoents deosn't have any and net 30 yard shots.

@Wiitastic

If you read thorugh the whole post you would have seen me mention the fact that I did also tweak the D-line. My Midfielders, are the stand out players if I'm honest. Also again, if you read through my prevoius posts, when morale drops I make 'privare chats' with indivuals.

I rotated my sqaud perfectly and only bought one player,

My team talks we fine, infact, most of the time they helped me secure rather lathargic results...

I kow about the whole Condition side to FM, like I said in my OP, my rotation was basically perfect,

It's nothing to do with thetactical side, I would accpet that if it is.

Just a few select quotes from the OP that make me believe that he won't listen no matter what is offered.

If you cannot see that some of these things are obviously having a negative effect and you might not be so perfect then I don't think anyone here can help.

Just a few select quotes from the OP that make me believe that he won't listen no matter what is offered.

If you cannot see that some of these things are obviously having a negative effect and you might not be so perfect then I don't think anyone here can help.

I can tell you that it was. My players always had great morale and condtion, and my team talks were good. Of course there whould of been the odd mistake. The tactics, could be issue, and as Heath said they may not f iniatially worked, therefore given me a false interpritation. I've ahd enough experaicne for me t say I've done well in this save. Yet I just can't figuire out why the everything came to a holt. Ow no wait I can. 11.2.1.

Corkey, I believe that I am in the best position to tell that it does happen . I was on my first Nottingham Forest save and had just gone in to February top by ten points or so. We had played well all season and I was playing a 4-2-3-1 formation which was good created chances. I won my first game in February against Derby and I didn't predict that it would happen to me nor that it could happen. From the win at Derby I went on a horrid run of form which saw me only pick up 13 points from 49. This saw me lose my 10 point lead and fall to third. My players morale had dropped dramatically and I didn't know what to do. I nearly fell out of the Play-Offs altogether because of my bad form. I had a little gap between two games and played a friendly against a really bad side. I won and boosted my teams morale. I finished and lost in the Play-Off final. I've had a few more Forest saves but haven't got far in them until I started my current one. Again, I did well but had a different tactic which was 4-4-2. We built up a lead that wasn't as big as last time but still 7 points is alot. Again we have hit the brick wall. I was quite a few points ahead of third, fourth, fifth, sixth and the rest. Until third overtook me so i'm now third and most teams have caught me up again. It's what makes FM, FM. I don't know how to change it but I think my players have some sort of mental issue when we are top and managers start to say that we could go up etc. Maybe they have just lost how to play and like Heath said after a few bad results they struggle.

Corkey, I believe that I am in the best position to tell that it does happen . I was on my first Nottingham Forest save and had just gone in to February top by ten points or so. We had played well all season and I was playing a 4-2-3-1 formation which was good created chances. I won my first game in February against Derby and I didn't predict that it would happen to me nor that it could happen. From the win at Derby I went on a horrid run of form which saw me only pick up 13 points from 49. This saw me lose my 10 point lead and fall to third. My players morale had dropped dramatically and I didn't know what to do. I nearly fell out of the Play-Offs altogether because of my bad form. I had a little gap between two games and played a friendly against a really bad side. I won and boosted my teams morale. I finished and lost in the Play-Off final. I've had a few more Forest saves but haven't got far in them until I started my current one. Again, I did well but had a different tactic which was 4-4-2. We built up a lead that wasn't as big as last time but still 7 points is alot. Again we have hit the brick wall. I was quite a few points ahead of third, fourth, fifth, sixth and the rest. I'm now second and most teams have caught me up again. It's what makes FM, FM. I don't know how to change it but I think my players have some sort of mental issue when we are top and managers start to say that we could go up etc. Maybe they have just lost how to play and like Heath said after a few bad results they struggle.

Yeah I understand The fact that I've gone down the league isn't what is the reason of the thread. I wouldn't of starting up a thread otherwise. Yet, it's the fact that time after time, game after game, chance after chance... It just got too much and istead of being a chanllenge to get them back, I feel it is impossible! There nothing more the team could do. A 30 yead cremer is unstoppable, and a 1-on-1 for us was always wasted....

@Acidburn

I had lost to Lyon 0-1 (A), my rivals, and drew to Marseille (D). Though the intial drop in form came after these results, to which fans weren't too anoyed about it, and were happy about the draw to Marseille. So I'm confident that this isn't a problem

Must be just me with that problem then lol.

Must be just me with that problem then lol.

Yeah of course morale dropped, but they drew against MArseille which got it back up

Bear in mind that the prediction of 8th is what the pundits expect, then remember that IRL the pundits have regularly got things wrong (Liverpool to win the league/have a good push last season; Arsenal to drop out of the top 4 in each of the last 3/4 years, to name just two examples). And THEN remember that the season isn't done: you could still easily achieve the finish expected of you, or better.

If you follow football (generally or a specific team), you'll know that every side has a blip. What you're experiencing sounds likes the Arsenal/Chelsea Factor: one minute you're brilliant and can take on all comers, the next you're getting wonky results through a lack of concentration/focus/guts (Arsenal) or can't find anything like form despite not doing much different (recent Chelsea). Even Man Utd have been awful for most of this season and can't find their peak performance - yet they're still doing OK.

As has been said, teams/the AI will adapt to your tactics. What you need to do, IMO, is have a look at the analysis of the match. Are your defenders allowing too many passes to be completed into your box? Are they missing interceptions?

What about your passes into the opposition box? Are you completing crosses? Could you do with more bodies in and around the box, meaning your mids need to give more/better support when attacking?

FM might only be a game, but you do have to think about things. There'd be no point to it otherwise. You could simply set everything up and leave it to play a season on automatic, leaving you to just look at the table at season's end (and anyone can win; the challenge is turning things around when you're not - and games should be challenging. If they're easy, they're brain-rot and surely no one wants stuff to be spoon-fed to satisfy their 'need' for (fictional) success?).

A final thought: go back to your original tactical settings. Start with them game-on-game and tweak within the match if you have to. Sometimes, a 'permanent' tweak is the problem, in my experience. And if all else fails, you could change formation.

So basically what it all boils down to in the end is yet another thread about CCCs

I'm quite happy to try to help but you need to accept some facts, the main one is that players only score around one in three good chances on average in RL.

There has also been a bit of discussion recently about CCCs in general. Basically its a stat that doesn't exist in RL and that what the 3d shows as a CCC isn't always what some/all users would class as a CCC.

I would also say that using classic tactics isn't doing you any favours, for users that struggle with these type of issues using the tactics creator helps you to balance tactics better.

So basically what it all boils down to in the end is yet another thread about CCCs

I'm quite happy to try to help but you need to accept some facts, the main one is that players only score around one in three good chances on average in RL.

There has also been a bit of discussion recently about CCCs in general. Basically its a stat that doesn't exist in RL and that what the 3d shows as a CCC isn't always what some/all users would class as a CCC.

I would also say that using classic tactics isn't doing you any favours, for users that struggle with these type of issues using the tactics creator helps you to balance tactics better.

Elhan has crete the organel base, and he's arguably one of the best 'Tacticains' on this forums.... I understand your point fo veiw, but a 1-on-1 to me is a big chance to score, and many of players are missing are missing around 90%...

Bear in mind that the prediction of 8th is what the pundits expect, then remember that IRL the pundits have regularly got things wrong (Liverpool to win the league/have a good push last season; Arsenal to drop out of the top 4 in each of the last 3/4 years, to name just two examples). And THEN remember that the season isn't done: you could still easily achieve the finish expected of you, or better.

If you follow football (generally or a specific team), you'll know that every side has a blip. What you're experiencing sounds likes the Arsenal/Chelsea Factor: one minute you're brilliant and can take on all comers, the next you're getting wonky results through a lack of concentration/focus/guts (Arsenal) or can't find anything like form despite not doing much different (recent Chelsea). Even Man Utd have been awful for most of this season and can't find their peak performance - yet they're still doing OK.

As has been said, teams/the AI will adapt to your tactics. What you need to do, IMO, is have a look at the analysis of the match. Are your defenders allowing too many passes to be completed into your box? Are they missing interceptions?

What about your passes into the opposition box? Are you completing crosses? Could you do with more bodies in and around the box, meaning your mids need to give more/better support when attacking?

FM might only be a game, but you do have to think about things. There'd be no point to it otherwise. You could simply set everything up and leave it to play a season on automatic, leaving you to just look at the table at season's end (and anyone can win; the challenge is turning things around when you're not - and games should be challenging. If they're easy, they're brain-rot and surely no one wants stuff to be spoon-fed to satisfy their 'need' for (fictional) success?).

A final thought: go back to your original tactical settings. Start with them game-on-game and tweak within the match if you have to. Sometimes, a 'permanent' tweak is the problem, in my experience. And if all else fails, you could change formation.

It may sound very odd, but I play FM and I do also watch football... I know it's strange...:confused:

This isn't about the 'dip'. Read through the prevous posts to make effiecent discussion. Why are my strikers missing 90% of CCCs and the oppenents score impossible goals?

Corkey... All..

I remember reading a thread a year of so ago regarding the AI 'regrading' teams halfway through a season and adjusting their tactics accordingly.. Ill try and explain.

At the start of the season you have a predicted finish, ie 12th.... if you outperform this and are for example 2nd approx. halfway through the season the AI 'regrades' teams and changes tactics thus presumably making things harder.... could this be the 'problem' you are experiencing??

Over to the guys that have vastly more experience than me on this

Elhan has crete the organel base, and he's arguably one of the best 'Tacticains' on this forums.... I understand your point fo veiw, but a 1-on-1 to me is a big chance to score, and many of players are missing are missing around 90%...

Even if Mourinho had created the base it still doesn't mean its going to work for you or your group of players.

Even if Mourinho had created the base it still doesn't mean its going to work for you or your group of players.

I have the correct players for the tactic.

Elhan has crete the organel base, and he's arguably one of the best 'Tacticains' on this forums.... I understand your point fo veiw, but a 1-on-1 to me is a big chance to score, and many of players are missing are missing around 90%...

I personally don't use the tactics forum but using a tactic/base that someone else has developed would usually mean that you don't understand it as well as the creator. You are also taking a tactic and putting your players into it in a best fashion rather than building a tactic around your players you have.

It may sound very odd, but I play FM and I do also watch football... I know it's strange...:confused:

This isn't about the 'dip'. Read through the prevous posts to make effiecent discussion. Why are my strikers missing 90% of CCCs and the oppenents score impossible goals?

This is partly your interpretation as you haven't got any solid evidence. You find you are more likely to remember the chances you've missed or the "impossible" goals the opposition have scored. If you kept notes for say the next 20 odd games you would see that more than likely your interpretation is worse than what is actually happening.

Corkey... All..

I remember reading a thread a year of so ago regarding the AI 'regrading' teams halfway through a season and adjusting their tactics accordingly.. Ill try and explain.

At the start of the season you have a predicted finish, ie 12th.... if you outperform this and are for example 2nd approx. halfway through the season the AI 'regrades' teams and changes tactics thus presumably making things harder.... could this be the 'problem' you are experiencing??

Over to the guys that have vastly more experience than me on this

I do understand, I did indeed changehalfway through the season... Yet surely that wouldn't effect the finishing of all my players....

I personally don't use the tactics forum but using a tactic/base that someone else has developed would usually mean that you don't understand it as well as the creator. You are also taking a tactic and putting your players into it in a best fashion rather than building a tactic around your players you have.

This is partly your interpretation as you haven't got any solid evidence. You find you are more likely to remember the chances you've missed or the "impossible" goals the opposition have scored. If you kept notes for say the next 20 odd games you would see that more than likely your interpretation is worse than what is actually happening.

Pretty sure it around 90% unsuccesful....Also I understand the tactic just fine I'll link the tactic, as he explains it perfectly

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/241387-4-2-3-1-Super_Defense ***

As Cougar has just said unless you have this elhan guy sitting with you whilst playing then it really doesn't matter, its his tactic.

And whats this obsession with changing tactics halfway through a season? Thats not needed, the AI do not and never have 'cracked' tactics. Its change for change sake. Thats probably had more of an impact than anything else.

It may sound very odd, but I play FM and I do also watch football... I know it's strange...:confused:

This isn't about the 'dip'. Read through the prevous posts to make effiecent discussion. Why are my strikers missing 90% of CCCs and the oppenents score impossible goals?

I read the comments. Then as now you seem intent on missing the points made and dissing the game.

Look at RL football: why has Rooney been such a donkey this season when he was OK last? Why has Berbatov gone from missing 90% of his chances to scoring week after week?

Your striker's lost form and probably confidence as well. Strikers tend to worry when they go a few games without a goal - it's even worse when they miss clear chances that they know they should have put away - and tend to blow hot and cold anyway (Bent, Defoe, et al).

As has been suggested by others, go easy on him/your team in team talks. Yeah, I know, your talks are always perfect, etc...but remember the talk feedback from the Ass Man is subjective: it's the Ass Man's opinion. If his stats are low in certain areas, what he thinks is a good talk/reaction might not actually be so. If it's not your tactics, yourself or the players, there must be a problem with the coaching and/or the feedback you're getting from your staff. Right?

Tell me, what is an 'impossible' goal? I've never seen one. I've seen flukes and the most awful howlers (I'm a Walsall fan; yesterday, I saw our 'keeper flap all around a ball that was easier to gather, with the result that the striker stepped around his prone form and tapped in). I've seen goals scored from shots that, when struck, you think 'What are you doing?'

I'm sure that, as football fans, we've all seen all sorts of weird and wonderful things...and yes, they come in fits and spurts.

FM does sometimes seem to be against you in this regard. But it's not and sometimes IRL it goes the same way - every slip is punished, every defender suddenly can't run, the previously prolific strikers couldn't hit the side of a barn.

The fact is, you were doing OK before: clearly, you're not a bad manager. Your players were doing OK before: clearly, they're not all bad players (you could have lost one or two, though; go through everything - profiles, stats, the lot - and be ruthless. You'll get through it.

I've had situations where, for whatever reason, form has gone out of the window and some players have started griping (lost confidence in the manager, etc). It's frsutrating, I know. In some cases, I challenge them to rally the team. In others, where their confidence in me is gone and it's clearly affecting their game (i.e. they're not working hard enough), I get them out asap and bring new faces in.

DO analyze your past matches. Have a look at what goes on after each game, then go back and look at the patterns/stats when you were doing well.

So a tactic designed for Arsenal yet your St Etienne team can fit into those roles perfectly? Doubtful.

More than anything, this is one of those things, you've hit some bad form, it happens. Deal with it and move on.

So a tactic designed for Arsenal yet your St Etienne team can fit into those roles perfectly? Doubtful.

More than anything, this is one of those things, you've hit some bad form, it happens. Deal with it and move on.

Please don't talk to me like i'm five. It worked for Wolves, and I've tweaked it to my team's preference. Again, that have nothing to do with what I'm on about....

I read the comments. Then as now you seem intent on missing the points made and dissing the game.

Look at RL football: why has Rooney been such a donkey this season when he was OK last? Why has Berbatov gone from missing 90% of his chances to scoring week after week?

Your striker's lost form and probably confidence as well. Strikers tend to worry when they go a few games without a goal - it's even worse when they miss clear chances that they know they should have put away - and tend to blow hot and cold anyway (Bent, Defoe, et al).

As has been suggested by others, go easy on him/your team in team talks. Yeah, I know, your talks are always perfect, etc...but remember the talk feedback from the Ass Man is subjective: it's the Ass Man's opinion. If his stats are low in certain areas, what he thinks is a good talk/reaction might not actually be so. If it's not your tactics, yourself or the players, there must be a problem with the coaching and/or the feedback you're getting from your staff. Right?

Tell me, what is an 'impossible' goal? I've never seen one. I've seen flukes and the most awful howlers (I'm a Walsall fan; yesterday, I saw our 'keeper flap all around a ball that was easier to gather, with the result that the striker stepped around his prone form and tapped in). I've seen goals scored from shots that, when struck, you think 'What are you doing?'

I'm sure that, as football fans, we've all seen all sorts of weird and wonderful things...and yes, they come in fits and spurts.

FM does sometimes seem to be against you in this regard. But it's not and sometimes IRL it goes the same way - every slip is punished, every defender suddenly can't run, the previously prolific strikers couldn't hit the side of a barn.

The fact is, you were doing OK before: clearly, you're not a bad manager. Your players were doing OK before: clearly, they're not all bad players (you could have lost one or two, though; go through everything - profiles, stats, the lot - and be ruthless. You'll get through it.

I've had situations where, for whatever reason, form has gone out of the window and some players have started griping (lost confidence in the manager, etc). It's frsutrating, I know. In some cases, I challenge them to rally the team. In others, where their confidence in me is gone and it's clearly affecting their game (i.e. they're not working hard enough), I get them out asap and bring new faces in.

DO analyze your past matches. Have a look at what goes on after each game, then go back and look at the patterns/stats when you were doing well.

Good Point

However Morale is still high..... I'm really struggling to understand what's going on!?!? Surely CCC's needed to be coverted... I'm trying to come to a source, and people liek you are being productive unlike somepeople

Pretty sure it around 90% unsuccesful....Also I understand the tactic just fine I'll link the tactic, as he explains it perfectly

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/241387-4-2-3-1-Super_Defense ***

Earlier you called Elhan one of the best tacticians on the forums and I really struggle to see why. He is fairly new to the forums with just over 200 posts (although this is by no means is a good way to judge) and I can see several things in that opening post I would take issue with.

One issue with the tactic he even highlights himself in the opening post "After a while your team becomes too predictable and you need to change between the two versions to keep your opponents on your toes."

I haven't downloaded the tactic as I am at work but just a quick glance brings up:

A) He uses a corner tactic which many find to produce a unrealistic level of goals.

B) He tells you to always close down opposition wingers and show them onto their weaker foot without giving any thought to the skills/attributes of the opposition wingers or your own players or even what to do if your opposition don't use wingers.

At the end of the day it looks like a tactic that was built by someone trying to beat a computer program rather than one created from a footballing point of view.

Please don't talk to me like i'm five. It worked for Wolves, and I've tweaked it to my team's preference. Again, that have nothing to do with what I'm on about....

Well don't act like you're 5 then.

My sisters that age, when she doesn't win she gets the hump too and stops playing whatever it is. But as I say, she's 5 so its to be expected.

Well don't act like you're 5 then.

My sisters that age, when she doesn't win she gets the hump too and stops playing whatever it is. But as I say, she's 5 so its to be expected.

I'm trying to find out whats going on, people Like Cougar and KDR are imputting... and have basically found my soultion

Lets keep this discussion civil guys, please

Earlier you called Elhan one of the best tacticians on the forums and I really struggle to see why. He is fairly new to the forums with just over 200 posts (although this is by no means is a good way to judge) and I can see several things in that opening post I would take issue with.

One issue with the tactic he even highlights himself in the opening post "After a while your team becomes too predictable and you need to change between the two versions to keep your opponents on your toes."

I haven't downloaded the tactic as I am at work but just a quick glance brings up:

A) He uses a corner tactic which many find to produce a unrealistic level of goals.

B) He tells you to always close down opposition wingers and show them onto their weaker foot without giving any thought to the skills/attributes of the opposition wingers or your own players or even what to do if your opposition don't use wingers.

At the end of the day it looks like a tactic that was built by someone trying to beat a computer program rather than one created from a footballing point of view.

Yes, but it is a great tactic, romped the league at the start, but now has dried up! Due to the CCCs problem. Still creating a fine amount of goal scoring chances...

Yep, just trying to help. Tbh, I've found that most people on here do the same (I've been around for years but go for longish periods without posting). There are some pretty knowledgeable folks around, both in footie terms and in terms of FM game mechanics.

Right. So your striker's happy enough and your side's obviously still creating chances (how many per game? One or two, or more?). He was taking them before, so what's changed?

What sort of chances was he getting before? Are they the same as he is missing now? How is he missing? If he was scoring one-on-ones, going clean through, but is now being caught by defenders, has he lost pace or acceleration, or have you tweaked his mentality slider? if he was scoring headers, are opponents marking him more tightly at set-pieces or going tight man-to-man in open play? Again, analyze his performance and look at what the opposition defenders are up to to counter his threat. If you were creating multiple clear chances, but now create only one or two, he might be getting more anxious (see Jermaine Beckford IRL; he scored loads at Leeds because they created a lot of chances for him; he was relaxed, knowing he was bound to grab one or two. At Everton, chances are much more scarce and the defenders more switched on; he's anxious, so he rushes his shot, etc).

Have any of his other stats changed? Have your coaching methods/personnel (change to attack/shooting coach, etc)?

Sometimes, even when morale looks good, a player can be concerned about something. With strikers, it's usually a goal drought. Is that the case here? Could he do with being rotated out for a couple of games, maybe coming on as a sub late on? If he's missing the CCCs, I'd consider giving someone else a chance anyway - sometimes being dropped can be the kick up the backside a player needs, and it doesn't have to be for long (again, look at David Moyes at Everton, putting mids up front and leaving strikers on the bench as a way of making a point).

See? It's this stuff that makes the game more worthwhile, IMO. And of course when your striker bags a hat-trick and you get back to winning ways, it's much more satisfying.

(Meant to ask, what are your pass completion and possession stats like, and what areas are you dominating (if any) in the match stats? Could be the key...)

This seems like a pointless thread, you have already decided your tactics are perfect and the way you handle your team is perfect, yet you come here asking why you cannot win....

If your one striker is missing that much, then you really need a new one, or you need to deploy a new tactic that takes all the goal scoring pressure off of him, play with more than one striker for games you think you should win, try shorter passing to try and create better chances or use the tactics creator to better use, pay good attention to mental stats of your players and make sure you are checking player motivation during games, that might tell you which players are failing you so much.

Yes, but it is a great tactic, romped the league at the start, but now has dried up! Due to the CCCs problem. Still creating a fine amount of goal scoring chances...

Without seeing it in action its difficult to identify the problems but I suspect it suffers a common problem that many users have.

Against a side that plays a fairly open game it does well but when faced with a defensive counter attacking team it struggles to score the goals as the opposition don't allow the space needed at the back.

It also concerns me that your expecting the ST to score the bulk of your goals while it looks like Elhan's tactic uses a ST that is much more creative (much lower mentality) and drops deeper dragging the DCs opening the space for the AML/AMR to exploit. In his tactic I would expect both the wingers to score probably more than the striker.

EDIT

IMO the best advice is to stop using other peoples tactics. Look at your team/players and build your own tactic from the ground up using the tactics creator and then watch the games on extended highlights. It will give you a much better understanding of the tactic on the whole.