Amateur club in SPL

I have taken Queen's Park from the third division to the Scottish Premier Division. I have £2 500 000 in the bank and would have had an additional £2 000 000, had they not installed under-soil heating.

Now to the problem. The club is still considered amateur! I can't sign any players for money and it is becoming annoying as well as highly unrealistic.

However, I can still sign quite good players to amateur contracts and a lot of them even turn down money from other clubs to stay with me for free.

I can ask for higher wage budget and they comply, but nothing happens and I still can't offer any money to players. I can't ask them to make the club professional (as I assume this option is only for semi-professional clubs).

Will the board make the club semi-pro or pro, or will I have to use an editor to make the game realistic?

The realistic part is that Queen's Park is an amateur club, by choice. So you don't have to use an editor to make the game realistic.

So you believe that Queen's Park (or any other team) would remain an amateur club if they played in the Scottish Premier League with $4 500 000 in the bank? Come on!

Ludere Causa Ludendi

Actually, yes. Just the same as no matter how successful they become those Spanish clubs (names escape me) won't ever sign a non basque player.

Queens Park are already the only wholly amateur team in the SFL, and I have a feeling the club is constituted in such a way that turning professional would breach it's articles of association, so they may in fact find it very hard to turn pro, regardless of how much money they have. Also, were they professional, the SFA would no longer finance the upkeep of Hampden Park, which they do at present.

Maidel- Athletic Bilbao is the main one you're thinking of there.

Maidel- Athletic Bilbao is the main one you're thinking of there.

That's the one. It really helps when you are trying to make a point to actually know the names.

Their motto is something like "to play for the sake of playing." They are proud to be an ameteur club, they always have been and always will be. If you really want to be realistic, you will let them keep their ameteur status and move to a different club if you wish to have a semi-professional club.

I have actually been to a Queens Park match. 0-0 draw with Cowdenbeath in front of 500 people in a 50,000+ capacity stadium, with only two turnstiles open. Fantastically surreal experience.

I stand corrected.

Still, I imagine the commercial side would win and the club doing everything to go professional.

iirc it has been confirmed that queens park are hard coded in the game to stay amateur

iirc it has been confirmed that queens park are hard coded in the game to stay amateur

correct, will be until the club decide not to be

I have taken Queen's Park from the third division to the Scottish Premier Division. I have £2 500 000 in the bank and would have had an additional £2 000 000, had they not installed under-soil heating.

Now to the problem. The club is still considered amateur! I can't sign any players for money and it is becoming annoying as well as highly unrealistic.

As has already been said Queen's Park won't (well, shouldn't) change from their amateur status, which is also the case in real life.

Da Beezer, I'm the researcher for Queen's Park and would be interested to have a look at your saved game if you could possibly upload it? Unfortunately I've not had enough free time to play the game myself so I don't know what things happen to the club as the seasons progress in FM world. Hampden Park already has under-soil heating so that shouldn't be happening, and the finances seem far too high. Also, how have you felt the amateur contracts have worked? Do you have clubs nabbing your players mid-season (as that shouldn't happen but I don't think there's a way of stopping it)?

It is realistic- Queen's park are amateur by choice. It's very similar to how my favorite club (and the club I manage in FM), Athletic Bilbao, only signs Basque players. Queen's Park may one day become professional or semi-pro, and one day Athletic may give up their Basques-only policy, but I think it is hard-coded into the game for both teams.

I stand corrected.

Still, I imagine the commercial side would win and the club doing everything to go professional.

The commercial side can't win. The club is set up in such a way that they cannot turn pro.

As Celtic said, so Da Beezer can get it out of his head that Queen's Park will ever turn (semi) professional as it will never happen.

Hampden Park already has under-soil heating so that shouldn't be happening

Someone has mentioned in Data Issues that they have had this issue, but with Kilmarnock. Could be worth the OP raising this as a bug.

As has already been said Queen's Park won't (well, shouldn't) change from their amateur status, which is also the case in real life.

Da Beezer, I'm the researcher for Queen's Park and would be interested to have a look at your saved game if you could possibly upload it? Unfortunately I've not had enough free time to play the game myself so I don't know what things happen to the club as the seasons progress in FM world. Hampden Park already has under-soil heating so that shouldn't be happening, and the finances seem far too high. Also, how have you felt the amateur contracts have worked? Do you have clubs nabbing your players mid-season (as that shouldn't happen but I don't think there's a way of stopping it)?

I have started a new save and deleted the old one. I believe it is very easy to be an amateur club. I could attract a lot of good players. It even felt like I could sign the same players as I could have if I would be semi-professional or professional. The difference being that I didn't have to pay any wages at all. The players never terminated the contracts and I had a lot of players in my reserves that was poached (during pre-season or in january) and earned me decent fees.

I could offer the good players new amateur contracts and they would turn down money from other clubs to stay with me. I always signed good players and made it to the SPL in shortest time possible. The money was earned through sales but mostly through attendance (remember I didn't have to pay wages and had few expenses).

As it is right now, I believe it is better to have an amateur club than a semi-pro club in lower, and perhaps even middle-leagues.

It is realistic- Queen's park are amateur by choice. It's very similar to how my favorite club (and the club I manage in FM), Athletic Bilbao, only signs Basque players. Queen's Park may one day become professional or semi-pro, and one day Athletic may give up their Basques-only policy, but I think it is hard-coded into the game for both teams.

Bilbao dont stick strictly to the rule anymore, check out their youth squad good few players of other ethnic origins including Jonás Ramalho

Bilbao dont stick strictly to the rule anymore, check out their youth squad good few players of other ethnic origins including Jonás Ramalho

you are actually incorrect they are just as strict as they always have been. While Jonás Ramalho is mixed race, his mother is Basque which makes him eligable, they have had many players with a basque parent but not born in basque country that have played.

you are actually incorrect they are just as strict as they always have been. While Jonás Ramalho is mixed race, his mother is Basque which makes him eligable, they have had many players with a basque parent but not born in basque country that have played.

As opposed to most of their club's history where they only had basque players from their region. I think its fair to say that the rule has relaxed when they are allowing and fans are accepting mixed ethnicities as basque players.

Their basis for selection is that players must be eligible for a theoretical basque national team. Therefore the grandfather rule which applies in international football also applies to athletic

Their basis for selection is that players must be eligible for a theoretical basque national team. Therefore the grandfather rule which applies in international football also applies to athletic

Maybe you should look up their Basque/Cantera policy, how their fans perceived (and others) what it should mean say 30 years ago and what it means today. There was a time that they were producing pure basque players, not anymore. Go figure.

Maybe Queen's Park are hard coded to remain amateur, but I remember encountering the same problem with Queen of the South a few FMs back. I spent three years struggling in the SPL, signing players for buttons and struggling to keep my team together and hoping each off season that the team would do the sensible thing and turn pro. After the third time I'd had enough and quit, at which point they promptly turned professional. I can only guess that there was something in the code stopping it from happening while a human manager was in charge.

And Real Sociedad are another Basque club and one who very definitely have relaxed their stance on non-Basque players, starting with other Spanish players and then incorporating foreigner. They still try and keep the majority of the squad Basque but it's much more of an ideology than a rule. I wonder if the start restricting you in FM if you sign too many foreign players?

Its all great sayingto play for the sake of playing but surely in the end it will come to them becoming semi proffesional atleast. Especially when prize money in Scotland is virtually next to nothing. If they want success then surely the club would move forward otherwise they will fall backwards very quickly.

Maybe you should look up their Basque/Cantera policy, how their fans perceived (and others) what it should mean say 30 years ago and what it means today. There was a time that they were producing pure basque players, not anymore. Go figure.

Which is surely no different to going back 30 years in english football and finding out that most premier league sides (first division...) were fielding about 9 English players, most of whom were from the local area.

The world has become more globalised, people move around a lot more. Basques used to mostly stay in Basque areas, the same as someone born in Newcastle was likely to die in Newcastle. Now, like everyone else, people move around the country for jobs (or even between countries). Therefore they have had to move with the times and accept that Basques will come from Basque families irrelavent of where they are physically based now.

I have started a new save and deleted the old one. I believe it is very easy to be an amateur club. I could attract a lot of good players. It even felt like I could sign the same players as I could have if I would be semi-professional or professional. The difference being that I didn't have to pay any wages at all. The players never terminated the contracts and I had a lot of players in my reserves that was poached (during pre-season or in january) and earned me decent fees.

I could offer the good players new amateur contracts and they would turn down money from other clubs to stay with me. I always signed good players and made it to the SPL in shortest time possible. The money was earned through sales but mostly through attendance (remember I didn't have to pay wages and had few expenses).

Thanks for the reply. I'll need to attempt a save and see what seems to be a bit off. I actually notice it says Hampden Park doesn't have under-soil heating in the game, possibly an error on my part but I'm fairly certain I only had to select the stadium and information on it was already set. You say you earned money through sales, if that's player sales that also shouldn't be happening as Queen's Park don't receive money from them. I'll have a gander and see what's what. Perhaps some amendments can be made for the final patch.

Which is surely no different to going back 30 years in english football and finding out that most premier league sides (first division...) were fielding about 9 English players, most of whom were from the local area.

The world has become more globalised, people move around a lot more. Basques used to mostly stay in Basque areas, the same as someone born in Newcastle was likely to die in Newcastle. Now, like everyone else, people move around the country for jobs (or even between countries). Therefore they have had to move with the times and accept that Basques will come from Basque families irrelavent of where they are physically based now.

Well it's not really that easy. Some Basques consider "Basque County" to also include parts of Southern France, while some emigrate to Basque County when young. Athletic Bilbao is a lot more than just Spanish Basques.

It is different to local sides not being able to afford foreigners, hence using local players - Athletic Bilbao can definitely afford to buy foreigners. They buy very good Basque players for high amounts of money - money that could be used to sign cheaper foreigners.

The grandfather rule is stronger than the Athletic Bilbao rules, I believe. They look at "Basque-ness", which goes beyond family ties.

Its all great sayingto play for the sake of playing but surely in the end it will come to them becoming semi proffesional atleast. Especially when prize money in Scotland is virtually next to nothing. If they want success then surely the club would move forward otherwise they will fall backwards very quickly.

I'll say it again. The club (assuming we're talking about Queens Park) is set up in such a way that in can never be anything but amateur. People really need to get over it. It's been like that since forever and it isn't going to change because someone THINKS it should.

As has already been said Queen's Park won't (well, shouldn't) change from their amateur status, which is also the case in real life.

Da Beezer, I'm the researcher for Queen's Park and would be interested to have a look at your saved game if you could possibly upload it? Unfortunately I've not had enough free time to play the game myself so I don't know what things happen to the club as the seasons progress in FM world. Hampden Park already has under-soil heating so that shouldn't be happening, and the finances seem far too high. Also, how have you felt the amateur contracts have worked? Do you have clubs nabbing your players mid-season (as that shouldn't happen but I don't think there's a way of stopping it)?

Kenzie, the way amateur players are treated in FM is a total joke, it's been brought up time and again and has never been fixed. Apparently it will be looked at for FM12.

But until it is fixed, any club with amateurs will lose them mid season or whenever if there's no window.

SFA rules of course prevent this happening in real life - any amateur registration lasts until season's end and is protected.

And it's not just Queen's Park in Scotland that use amateurs - almost every U19 in the SFL (bar a few clubs) are amateur - the botch of this piece of coding adds hundreds of pounds a week to club wagebills and my own non-league team started the season with 6 or 7 amateurs that I face losing quickly once the season starts.

You say you earned money through sales, if that's player sales that also shouldn't be happening as Queen's Park don't receive money from them.

It's not acctually sales. It's tribunal compensation for other teams signing my players under the age of 25.

Would they get that IRL though?

Or at least as much as other teams

I'd say it's fair for them too get some since they have used money for facilities, but since they don't pay wages, the expenses are lower I would of thought

Would they get that IRL though?

Or at least as much as other teams

I'd say it's fair for them too get some since they have used money for facilities, but since they don't pay wages, the expenses are lower I would of thought

I don't think Queen's Park receive compensation IRL. I'm sure cmontheloknow, who posted a few posts above, will know for certain.

If he does see this I'd be curious on how it all works, I hear some players are on non-contract professional deals (which I can understand the reasoning behind), it all seems to be kept under the carpet along with the brown paper bags filled with money for the players 'wages'.

Its all great sayingto play for the sake of playing but surely in the end it will come to them becoming semi proffesional atleast. Especially when prize money in Scotland is virtually next to nothing. If they want success then surely the club would move forward otherwise they will fall backwards very quickly.

They don't want success. They hope to be successful, whilst staying true to the tenets of amateurism. In the early days of football their beliefs weren't so much not unusual, rather the accepted norm. The idea of people playing the game (or indeed, any sport really) for financial reward was considered morally repugnant.

Well it's not really that easy. Some Basques consider "Basque County" to also include parts of Southern France, while some emigrate to Basque County when young. Athletic Bilbao is a lot more than just Spanish Basques.

It is different to local sides not being able to afford foreigners, hence using local players - Athletic Bilbao can definitely afford to buy foreigners. They buy very good Basque players for high amounts of money - money that could be used to sign cheaper foreigners.

The grandfather rule is stronger than the Athletic Bilbao rules, I believe. They look at "Basque-ness", which goes beyond family ties.

thats just plainly wrong.

Im rooting from Bilbao and can assure you that this what you stated is not correct at all.

maybe you should get more informed before you post something next time.

Damn i've pretty much mirrored the OP's game , no way can i carry on the game with amateur status - what waste of time - the game should tell you that they will always remain amateur

Damn i've pretty much mirrored the OP's game , no way can i carry on the game with amateur status - what waste of time - the game should tell you that they will always remain amateur

or you should know more about the club and league your choosing to manage in.

thats just plainly wrong.

Im rooting from Bilbao and can assure you that this what you stated is not correct at all.

maybe you should get more informed before you post something next time.

I did think that was the case, but I didnt feel like arguing with him without the full facts.