Feeder Clubs (Financial)

After requesting a feeder club that will provide you with more commerical streams for extra revenue, the board came back to me with 3 clubs.

Of the 3 clubs 2 were from Japan and the other from China. The 2 from Japan cost an outlay of either 2.69M or 2.16M and the Chinese club cost an outlay of 1.47M. Is there a difference which club I choose other than the financial implications for my club? Or is it a case of the more you pay the more you earn? It would be nice to find out. Is there a difference in which country the club you choose plays in? Would a team in the USA be a better choice than a team in Asia/Middle East?

Cheers

I think the higher cost is due to the clubs reputation, thus the league in japan is of a better standard that the one in china, hence they want more money.

Personally I would be going for the chinese club - 1 billion people is better than 100million.

But Im not sure anyone know EXACTLY what the benifits are, some people say you only get the real benifit by buying a player from that country.

I would like to know too.

I've had DC United (£2.54m) For about a year.

Merchandising has gone up a bit, but not by that much.

I think the higher cost is due to the clubs reputation, thus the league in japan is of a better standard that the one in china, hence they want more money.

Personally I would be going for the chinese club - 1 billion people is better than 100million.

But Im not sure anyone know EXACTLY what the benifits are, some people say you only get the real benifit by buying a player from that country.

That was my logic behind actually choosing the Chinese club. On the other hand though, I would have thought Japanese people are more fanatical about football (maybe wrong). It would be nice if the board came back with something along these lines:

The board have found 3 suitable clubs for you to choose from. (The following are all made up teams)

1. Tokyo United (Japan) - £2.55M (3 years)

Tokyo United are a top flight established team in Japan with a hardcore fan base of around 7600, the club has adequate training facilities and a good youth set-up. The Japanese market has a high value and with a population of over 75M people is an ideal market we should look into. If chosen, Tokyo United would be guranteed a friendly ever season and we would have first pick on all players sold by the club.

1st year maximum return (depending on our success) - £0.76M

2nd year maximum return (depending on our success) - £1.38M

3rd year maximum return (depending on our success) - £1.99M

2) Daytona Beach F.C (USA) - £0.79M (5 years)

Daytona Beach F.C are a relativly new club having only been founded in 2002. They play their football in the USA 2nd teir and have a hardcore support of 490. The club has excellent training facilities and a poor youth set-up. The USA market is the leading market in the world in terms of potential revenue to be made. If chosen we would be required to play a friendly game every season and would have first option on all of Dayona's players.

1st year maximum return (depending on our success) - £0.11M

2nd year maximum return (depending on our success) - £0.21M

3rd year maxiimum return (depending on our success) - £0.48M

4th year maximum return (depending on our success) - £0.84M

5th year maximum return (depending on our success) - £1.3M

3) Doha City (Qatar) - £2.75M (4 years)

Doha City have been in exsitance since 1954 and are the current champions of the Qatari Premier League. They have a hardcore support of 17200 and boast state of the art training facilities and a very good youth set-up. If chosen we would be obliged to take part in the Qatari Kings cup, held every July. We would also have the option of sending our players out on loan to them. Qatar has a growing reputation with in world football and will be hosting the World Cup in 2022, this would make an excellent market to exploit.

1st year maximum return (depending on our success) - £1.2M

2nd year maximum return (depending on our success) - £1.88M

3rd year maximum return (depending on our success) - £2.45M

4th year maximum return (depending on our success) - £3.11M

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I think something along those lines would be really good. It would allow you see what you are getting back from your investment and might even inspire you to try harder in lesser competitons i.e the more you win (such as league cup/community shield etc) the more you could earn (maximum return).

Thoughts???

Thoughts???

Would get a thumbs up from me, great idea. More info is definately needed

The problem is I dont think the board can actually plot that sort of return.

Crystal palace had a link up with a club in China in the late 90's. It made them an absolute fortune because they had 2 chinese stars at the club at the time (didnt do any good because it was about the only money they made that year!).

Other clubs have had big link ups with clubs but they cant predict how those link ups will go. Will that star name actually perform for you? Will he get injured? Will an unknown player come through the ranks and become big in the country unexpectedly (eg beckham). You just cant put a value on something so unknown

The problem is I dont think the board can actually plot that sort of return.

Crystal palace had a link up with a club in China in the late 90's. It made them an absolute fortune because they had 2 chinese stars at the club at the time (didnt do any good because it was about the only money they made that year!).

Other clubs have had big link ups with clubs but they cant predict how those link ups will go. Will that star name actually perform for you? Will he get injured? Will an unknown player come through the ranks and become big in the country unexpectedly (eg beckham). You just cant put a value on something so unknown

I see where your coming from but my example would be based on MAXIMUM possible return. You could factor all those facts in that you mentioned. Players have reputations i.e local, national, continetal etc..... if players get injured then obviously it would effect the amount of money you earn in that particular year. You could have the board block a sale of a player because he is so valuable to the overseas deal you created or better yet your board might go and buy a player without your say so on the back of a link up you created.

At the end of the day even if something like this is not implicated then it needs to be made more clearer what advantages/disadvantages there are for linking up with certain clubs. As it's stands it just feels hit and miss and completly random and to a certain extent pointless.

I see where your coming from but my example would be based on MAXIMUM possible return.

But I dont think you can actually do that, especially not over 5 years. Maybe for the first year, but so many things in football can change in a year that its impossible to predict.

Consider Leeds united the year before they imploded and got relegated - they could have predicted a wonderful windfall from a feederclub, but getting relegated the next year would bugger that all up.

Your lucky, my board never come up with one option let alone more!!!

But I dont think you can actually do that, especially not over 5 years. Maybe for the first year, but so many things in football can change in a year that its impossible to predict.

Consider Leeds united the year before they imploded and got relegated - they could have predicted a wonderful windfall from a feederclub, but getting relegated the next year would bugger that all up.

Well if you got relegated then you would make a lot less money. e.g. 1st year you made £0.8M (the year you got relegated), the 2nd year you only make £0.33M. The amount you earn goes by the success you have (as is in real life, the more trophies Man U, Real, Barca etc.....win the more popular globally they become, the more money they earn). Maybe if you the deal wasn't working your board would terminate the deal. I've already had this with a feeder club for Work Permits. I wasn't using it and so my board cancelled the link since it was costing the club money for something I wasn't utilising.

Well if you got relegated then you would make a lot less money. .

And thats the reason why the game cant give you those definative numbers. Get relegted, it all changes, sign a huge name, it sky rockets, win the league, it changes - there are too many variables to put that into fixed numbers in my opinion.

And thats the reason why the game cant give you those definative numbers. Get relegted, it all changes, sign a huge name, it sky rockets, win the league, it changes - there are too many variables to put that into fixed numbers in my opinion.

It doesn't have to be over complicated though. Rather than signing superstars just keep it results based or trophies won based. It can be made as simple or as complicated as the developers wanted. At the end of the day 10 years ago nobody would believe that there would be 2-D matches on CM/FM let alone the current 3-D that we've got now. This (all be it very small) aspect of the game needs improving and this is just one suggestion of how it could be improved. As it stands at the moment it feels useless and you don't know if you are just giving your money away to another club.

Millsy - superbly thought out and completely agree with that idea

It doesn't have to be over complicated though. Rather than signing superstars just keep it results based or trophies won based. It can be made as simple or as complicated as the developers wanted. At the end of the day 10 years ago nobody would believe that there would be 2-D matches on CM/FM let alone the current 3-D that we've got now. This (all be it very small) aspect of the game needs improving and this is just one suggestion of how it could be improved. As it stands at the moment it feels useless and you don't know if you are just giving your money away to another club.

But if you make it simple everyone will complain that it's too basic. Just look at player interaction, everyone complains that there aren't enough options and it's all too simplistic. Si have made this fairly complex and rightly so as it is a complicated series of events that create the value of a commercial feeder club.

But if you make it simple everyone will complain that it's too basic. Just look at player interaction, everyone complains that there aren't enough options and it's all too simplistic. Si have made this fairly complex and rightly so as it is a complicated series of events that create the value of a commercial feeder club.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

At the end of the day the guys who make this game are professionals and my suggestion is nowhere near as complex as some of the other features in the game (a few clicks of certain sliders and you have a complely different match/rating/effect on other players etc....). The game already has a sophisticated finacial module. If you play the game over say, 100 years, you'll see that some clubs are worth billions and transfer sums go higher and higher. What I'm suggesting could IMO be written into this aspect of the game. It's a small change and can be as complex or simple as the develpers decide. But one thing is clear, it needs to change and become more transparent as you cannot see either the advantages nor disadvantages of this feature and if it doesn't change it might as well get scrapped. The very least it needs to do is the board recommend which club they think will earn the most money and then at the end of the season have a financial review where they give a breakdown of everything to you (wages, fees, running costs, future developments, transfers, club links etc....) and you can see how right or wrong your decison was.

Millsy - superbly thought out and completely agree with that idea

Cheers (damn the character rule)!

I agrees with the second part, we do need some sort of breakdown on how effective the tie ups have been, but what should not be implemented is a pre-tie up breakdown of howmuch you will earn. A list of which clubs the board believe will be better, sure. But a five year estimated earnings break down is unrealistic in the way you describe.

There should definitely be some sort of explanation of the benefits. There is no point having a feature if no one is sure how it works.

At very least, they should say at the end of each year, we have had £x m more than usual merchandising sales from USA/Japan. Or our merchanising has been x% higher since the deal.

Whatever effect is has, we should be told.

I agrees with the second part, we do need some sort of breakdown on how effective the tie ups have been, but what should not be implemented is a pre-tie up breakdown of howmuch you will earn. A list of which clubs the board believe will be better, sure. But a five year estimated earnings break down is unrealistic in the way you describe.

It's not unrealistic though. When you are in business, which all football clubs are, a good buisness man will always have a short term and long term forecast, heck you sign players on 3, 4, 5 year deals all the time essentially commiting to pay them x amount of money over that period, yet you may sell them, loan them for a season with x% paid by the loaning club or you could cancel the contract at a certain cost, this a huge variable and has a direct effect on your finances.

The board would only be forecasting the potential amount of money you can earn. This may or may not be the case depending on how you perform. As I've said before, it would then be on how successful you are as a club/manager. You would expect the amount of money to go up every year you are linked with a club as your club becomes more familiar with the other nations supporter and merchandise, friendley etc would also help. So the board would forecast that one year it is x amount the year after it's a little more, but just as Micheal Fish proved in 1987, forecast's can be wrong and you may find yourself making less money than you thought.

100% agree with this I dont want to be parting with money without knowing an approximate amount that the club would be getting back in return.

surely it would be impossible to predict how much a feeder club will make you, there is no way to be sure the fans over there will really take to your club, no way to know which ones will be willing to buy your clubs merch, the list could go on. The game could maybe give you an approx amount within a rough range, but that would open too may problems. As folk have said success will have a huge play on this, which would affect the success of this seasonally.

It's not unrealistic though. When you are in business, which all football clubs are, a good buisness man will always have a short term and long term forecast,

Ah, but now you are changing it slightly - at first you were saying that the game should inform you of fixed maximums that the club would be getting, now you are talking about estimates.

I dont have an issue with being given estimates, 5 years however is a bit far ahead really.

The problem that comes from this is that this sort of information is not really what a manager would be involved in. Admittedly there is a good deal of stuff in the game that managers equally would not be involved in (contract negotiations, stadium expansions etc) so it depends on how far we want to drag the 'manager' part of the game. At this point we have left the realms of manager and moved into commercial directors.

In the same vein we could say that when we sign a big name player we should get a break down of expected income from shirt sales. This happens at board level in real life, players like ronaldo were partly financed by how many shirts they expected to sell. Again this is a commercial directors remit, not the managers.

I dont dissagree with your idea (despite how it might look) but I am hesitant because it really goes far beyond what a manager would actually be involved with.

I dont dissagree with your idea (despite how it might look) but I am hesitant because it really goes far beyond what a manager would actually be involved with.

Exactly. You are right, this decision would not be part of a managers agenda or responsability. It involves money and has no direct impact on results on the pitch, therefore it would be dealt with at board level. The same can be said about the other types of feeder clubs. It's either an area of the game they need to scrap (as it's not part of being a Football Manager), or expand (as it is not transparent at the moment). The problem is, if you do scrap this aspect of the game then other people would call for the scrapping of contract negotiations, stadium expansions, transfer negotiations, maybe even transfer targets (David Levy phoned Harry Redknapp up and told him he could get Van Der Varrt from Madrid for 8M, two hours later he was a Spurs player). If these aspects of the game where scrapped then you'd be left with very little to do other than tactics and press conferences, which I'm sure everyone would agree would make a boring game.

I think it is realistic to expect a maximum amount of money to earn. At the end of the day "research" would be carried out by the club and some "advisors" would no doubt be able to make the financial forecast for you club explaining to you the absoloute maximum amount of money you could earn if you are the most successful club in the world. At the end of the day you would not expect to earn that much but you may look at it and think to yourself that 50% of that amount is achieveable.

If you start up a business you forecast your profits/losses for the first 2 or 3 years (some people as much as 5 years). Why do you do this? Mainly because your bank manager would like to know exactly why he is lending you money to set-up a busineess and he wants to know how long it will be before he starts to see any of this money back. As a manager it is conceivable you are the same. You would like to see figures facts and what return you are getting on the clubs investment, which is ultimatley money to bring in new players.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive in thinking it would be simple to implement, but I do think it can be done by somebody who is cleverer than me. That is why we discuss these things and take one idea and work with it, expand it and scrap bit from it. That is the best way to overcome problems and this small problem needs looking at for the next installment of the game IMO.