Evaluation of 8.0.2 - is it really that bad?

Having recently been accused of being a fanboy (lol) or desperately wanting to be a mod (lmao) just because i defended the game, i thought i'd give a reasoned opinion of 8.0.2.

Why? Because the majority of threads are either moans or praise with little consideration for the other side.

I suppose the easiest place to start is:

What Still Needs Fixing

1 - Board confidence - Miles claimed to be unaware of the limitations of this feature, i'm willing to accept that for now, however i feel i've said all i need to here. I really don't feel that any of the points really need save games to support them, but they can be provided if they are needed.

2 - Transfer Mech - again i don't feel i need to elaborate on this.

3 - Corners - in 14 seasons i have yet to experience a problem with scoring too many corners or conceding too many corners. HOWEVER, that is not to say there isn't a problem, just that i haven't experienced it.

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline.

That said there are some people claiming that the AI exploits this bug - not surprisingly there are no threads to this affect in the bugs forum.

4 - Scoring too many goals - in the first save i used, there was no problem with this whatsoever. However, in my more recent game, there have been some daft results such as arsenal beating spurs 8-0, and in general the scoring was MUCH higher. That said, i do appreciate it is an exceptionally tricky thing to balance for SI, considering that there are dozens of leagues in tens of nations. I personally prefer there to be too many goals rather than too few.

5 - ME glitches - having watched a fair few matches on full detail, a few alarming issues appeared:

a) players "clearing" the ball when they are in attacking positions. Several times, i've had wingers just knock the ball into touch rather than behave sensibly.

b) a much more frequent problem is that players seem to lose all control of a ball when it is close to a touch line. Players under no pressure REGULARLY concede throw ins and corners just because they knock the ball out of play for no apparent reason. This has happened at all levels so it's not just my incompotent vauxhall players.

If you are wondering what i'm talking about, just watch any match on full detail, it should become apparent fairly quickly. I can upload pkms for SI, but as i said, it happens so often i think they should already be aware of this.

...and that's the sum total of problems that i would consider significant. Pretty much every other long shots/poor finishing problem that i've seen people moan about i've avoided by tweaking my tactics.

Positives

1 - This game is still far and away the best football game available. Yes it has faults, but they are substantially fewer compared to CM or Fifa.

2 - 8.0.2 removes the vast majority of problems 8.0.0 had. I am in no way claiming 8.0.0 was anything but a dismal effort, however i feel that 8.0.2 has removed most of the problems found in boxed version, and as such, SI should be applauded for fixing the game.

3 - ME, when 8.0.0 was released several SI members of staff said that they felt the FM08 ME had the potential to be the best ever, i was not convinced. After the problems have beeen ironed out however, i must agree, that te current ME is by far the best available, yes there are problems, but anybody who thinks they can produce a perfect game is quite clearly looney.

Questions for readers

Congrats if you've bothered to read this far.

The point of this part is just to assess forum users opinions, in order to provide a rebuke (or support) to those who throw around claims such as "the majority of people are unhappy with the game" - a few questions just to determine what your opinions are about the game:

1/ Do you enjoy FM08

2/ Do you feel it is better than FM07

3/ Are there any bugs that you feel are significant that i haven't experienced - please elaborate.

and any additional comments.

Cheers!

NB: any of my growing fan club (theboydonegood, justme87, this field left intentionally blank....et al) feel the need to comment, then please do so in a polite manner. This thread isn't intended as a game worshipping post, just a request for opinions.

Having recently been accused of being a fanboy (lol) or desperately wanting to be a mod (lmao) just because i defended the game, i thought i'd give a reasoned opinion of 8.0.2.

Why? Because the majority of threads are either moans or praise with little consideration for the other side.

I suppose the easiest place to start is:

What Still Needs Fixing

1 - Board confidence - Miles claimed to be unaware of the limitations of this feature, i'm willing to accept that for now, however i feel i've said all i need to here. I really don't feel that any of the points really need save games to support them, but they can be provided if they are needed.

2 - Transfer Mech - again i don't feel i need to elaborate on this.

3 - Corners - in 14 seasons i have yet to experience a problem with scoring too many corners or conceding too many corners. HOWEVER, that is not to say there isn't a problem, just that i haven't experienced it.

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline.

That said there are some people claiming that the AI exploits this bug - not surprisingly there are no threads to this affect in the bugs forum.

4 - Scoring too many goals - in the first save i used, there was no problem with this whatsoever. However, in my more recent game, there have been some daft results such as arsenal beating spurs 8-0, and in general the scoring was MUCH higher. That said, i do appreciate it is an exceptionally tricky thing to balance for SI, considering that there are dozens of leagues in tens of nations. I personally prefer there to be too many goals rather than too few.

5 - ME glitches - having watched a fair few matches on full detail, a few alarming issues appeared:

a) players "clearing" the ball when they are in attacking positions. Several times, i've had wingers just knock the ball into touch rather than behave sensibly.

b) a much more frequent problem is that players seem to lose all control of a ball when it is close to a touch line. Players under no pressure REGULARLY concede throw ins and corners just because they knock the ball out of play for no apparent reason. This has happened at all levels so it's not just my incompotent vauxhall players.

If you are wondering what i'm talking about, just watch any match on full detail, it should become apparent fairly quickly. I can upload pkms for SI, but as i said, it happens so often i think they should already be aware of this.

...and that's the sum total of problems that i would consider significant. Pretty much every other long shots/poor finishing problem that i've seen people moan about i've avoided by tweaking my tactics.

Positives

1 - This game is still far and away the best football game available. Yes it has faults, but they are substantially fewer compared to CM or Fifa.

2 - 8.0.2 removes the vast majority of problems 8.0.0 had. I am in no way claiming 8.0.0 was anything but a dismal effort, however i feel that 8.0.2 has removed most of the problems found in boxed version, and as such, SI should be applauded for fixing the game.

3 - ME, when 8.0.0 was released several SI members of staff said that they felt the FM08 ME had the potential to be the best ever, i was not convinced. After the problems have beeen ironed out however, i must agree, that te current ME is by far the best available, yes there are problems, but anybody who thinks they can produce a perfect game is quite clearly looney.

Questions for readers

Congrats if you've bothered to read this far.

The point of this part is just to assess forum users opinions, in order to provide a rebuke (or support) to those who throw around claims such as "the majority of people are unhappy with the game" - a few questions just to determine what your opinions are about the game:

1/ Do you enjoy FM08

2/ Do you feel it is better than FM07

3/ Are there any bugs that you feel are significant that i haven't experienced - please elaborate.

and any additional comments.

Cheers!

NB: any of my growing fan club (theboydonegood, justme87, this field left intentionally blank....et al) feel the need to comment, then please do so in a polite manner. This thread isn't intended as a game worshipping post, just a request for opinions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't let this one pass without comment.

What you're essentially saying is you have no problem in deliberately giving instructions that will prevent your team scoring goals, and deliberately avoiding a tactic which is widely used in real life, particularly against keepers who have excellent aerial ability.

That is ridiculous.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't let this one pass without comment.

What you're essentially saying is you have no problem in deliberately giving instructions that will prevent your team scoring goals, and deliberately avoiding a tactic which is widely used in real life, particularly against keepers who have excellent aerial ability.

That is ridiculous.

well i was considering downloading 8.0.2 today, actually was just about to do it, but judging from your evaluation maybe i shouldn't. i appreciate someone putting a balanced for/against evaluation, but each of the positive points you made still say there are faults.

perhaps i'll stick to 8.0.1...

thanks for the evaluation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't let this one pass without comment.

What you're essentially saying is you have no problem in deliberately giving instructions that will prevent your team scoring goals, and deliberately avoiding a tactic which is widely used in real life, particularly against keepers who have excellent aerial ability.

That is ridiculous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want this thread to degenerate into another bitching contest over whether we should have to fix problems ourselves, so i'll keep my reply short.

I have no problem with making a few mouse clicks to avoid a bug. If you do, then good for you, it's your choice. I personally would rather have realistic score lines.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjosfra:

well i was considering downloading 8.0.2 today, actually was just about to do it, but judging from your evaluation maybe i shouldn't. i appreciate someone putting a balanced for/against evaluation, but each of the positive points you made still say there are faults.

perhaps i'll stick to 8.0.1...

thanks for the evaluation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately there will always be faults - this is an indisputable fact, and one which some users refuse to come to terms with.

However, i would seriously suggest that you download 8.0.2 and give it a go. I personally did not like 8.0.1 and barely played it, i find 8.0.2 to be a huge step forward. But there are differing opinions, my best advice would be, give it a go and make up your own mind.

Hope this helps.

1.Yes i really enjoy FM08

2 No, because of the " Mister X is going to face is former club, what is your opinion ?" He has left his former club 5 years ago and the game still asks the same old question everytime. (He has left the club because he sux as a player)

3. look at the answer No.2

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megadeth:

1.Yes i really enjoy FM08

2 No, because of the " Mister X is going to face is former club, what is your opinion ?" He has left his former club 5 years ago and the game still asks the same old question everytime. (He has left the club because he sux as a player)

3. look at the answer No.2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i'd forgotten about that one. It is a bit daft isn't it, at least it can just be ignored lol

I think it would hve been too much to expect both board confidence and the transfer mechanism to be fixed in a patch. They need major work to get right and although I would have loved to see them fixed in 8.0.2, I think it would have been too much to ask.

The match engine glitches you have mentioned have been present for a long time. I remeber them being present back in CM4, just a lot more common. It's just frustrating that they are still present and not that rare.

In answer to your questions though:

1) Yes

2) It's as good, although that makes it a little frustrating as you would expect it to be better.

3) None that I have noticed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

I have no problem with making a few mouse clicks to avoid a bug. If you do, then good for you, it's your choice. I personally would rather have realistic score lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well we're talking in a thread entitled "evaluation of 8.0.2", so I assume that's what you want people to do. The fact that you have to deliberately avoid exploiting such an influential bug is already a big black mark on 8.0.2, regardless of whether you can choose not to employ it.

Its less fun than 07 and basically offers nothing new whatsoever. So yeah, in a progressive sense, it is bad.

FM urgently needs a total makeover ..

The game has just been a cash cow, polish, fix a few bugs, new skin et voila £25 please.

Its just been left behind by the rest of the games industry imho. Its not 1995 anymore.

1. Board confidence is a mess. I don't know how it got through testing in the form that it's in. They shouldn't need save games for this, merely the ability to switch on a computer and play for a couple of seasons.

2.Agree

3. I've not had a problem with this either.

4. I had this problem with my 8.0.1. game in 8.0.2 but it seems to have sorted itself out after starting a new game.

5.a) Too many times have I watched my star striker knock the ball out for a goal kick when he's under no pressure at all.

b) Can't say I've noticed that but my players can't pass for toffee so the chances of any of them actually managing to be in the same place as the ball before it trundles across the line are slim.

My answers:

1. Yes, I do now, I was going through the motions in 8.0.0 and 8.0.1 but I'm actually enjoying 8.0.2, despite my lack of success so far.

2. No, it has too many bugs and poorly implemented features. The ME is probably on a par or better but the rest of the game needs some TLC.

3.I'll add:

Offsides/Last man: I decided to have a leisurely day yesterday and watch all my matches in full. Nearly every offside decision was wrong (imo), some were very clearly wrong and despite numerous last man fouls not a single player was red carded.

I started to form the theory that the ME was seeing the second last man as last man. I'm probably way off the mark with that but I'll be paying closer attention to it.

Overall FM08 gets a "must try harder" from me.

I'd be prepared to bet that no one actually played the game in testing the way it's played by us customers because there are so many things that could/should have been picked up if they had.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:

I think it would hve been too much to expect both board confidence and the transfer mechanism to be fixed in a patch. They need major work to get right and although I would have loved to see them fixed in 8.0.2, I think it would have been too much to ask.

The match engine glitches you have mentioned have been present for a long time. I remeber them being present back in CM4, just a lot more common. It's just frustrating that they are still present and not that rare.

In answer to your questions though:

1) Yes

2) It's as good, although that makes it a little frustrating as you would expect it to be better.

3) None that I have noticed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something I did forget to mention, which probaby bugs me more then anything, is just many goals the lone striker role scores. In my current game, Rooney has scored 31 goals in 24 Premier League games, whilst the 3 AM's playing behind him have scored a handful between them. It seems if your a good team, and play with one upfront, the striker is going to score dozens.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1/ Do you enjoy FM08

Yes, alot. Harder and more involving (tactics, media, opposition), than previous releases. I like to play challenging games that I can enjoy for a long time, rather than something I can "beat" quickly then sits on a shelf gathering dust.

2/ Do you feel it is better than FM07

Definately. Newer features and after 8.0.2 patch, a superb match engine that's responsive to tactical choices. There's more I would like to see, but I'm satisfied SI always look to advance with each release.

3/ Are there any bugs that you feel are significant that i haven't experienced - please elaborate.

The main "bug" that spoilt my gameplay was the player registration issue, as I like playing lower league Spanish saves. Thankfully this has been fixed. Otherwise there's nothing that spoils the game significantly. Yes, little things can be annoying, but I prefer to spend more time actually playing the game than picking holes in the game to a finite detail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

I have no problem with making a few mouse clicks to avoid a bug. If you do, then good for you, it's your choice. I personally would rather have realistic score lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well we're talking in a thread entitled "evaluation of 8.0.2", so I assume that's what you want people to do. The fact that you have to deliberately avoid exploiting such an influential bug is already a big black mark on 8.0.2, regardless of whether you can choose not to employ it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why i mentioned it in "what still needs fixing".... sometimes is truly despair.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Which is why i mentioned it in "what still needs fixing".... sometimes is truly despair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was more referring to the fact you have 'no problem' with not employing what is a common tactic, but to each his own.

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're starting to get tedious.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're starting to get tedious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe, but still correct

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The boy certainly done good.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're starting to get tedious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe, but still correct </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you detest what i have to say, just add me to your ignore list. If you feel i ignore house rules, report me and see if a mod feels i've been terribly naughty.

ha, you mention me by name in your opening salvo and ask that i reply in a polite manner.

I do this and your response is to tell me to add you to my ignore list???

what a mighty intellect you have there.

8.0.2 is far better than 8.0.0 and 8.0.1. Things still need improving, but at least it's going in the right direction.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

ha, you mention me by name in your opening salvo and ask that i reply in a polite manner.

I do this and your response is to tell me to add you to my ignore list???

what a mighty intellect you have there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You clearly dislike what i post.

I suggest that you ignore it.

in what way is intellect lacking?

I give up. Say what you want, do what you want, i don't care any more, all you're doing here is spitting out your dummy because you don't like my posting style. If you don't add me to your ignore list, then you can only blame yourself.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

ha, you mention me by name in your opening salvo and ask that i reply in a polite manner.

I do this and your response is to tell me to add you to my ignore list???

what a mighty intellect you have there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair mate, you knew he would rise to the 'wanna be mod' thing, so you cant complain.

This thread will get an injury time

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jimmywils:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

ha, you mention me by name in your opening salvo and ask that i reply in a polite manner.

I do this and your response is to tell me to add you to my ignore list???

what a mighty intellect you have there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair mate, you knew he would rise to the 'wanna be mod' thing, so you cant complain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's not the only person to say such things, hence it wasn't primarily aimed at him - although whether he believes that or not is another matter.

Either way, the sooner we move on the better.

After playing for a couple of weeks now with 8.0.2 I would have to agree with the sentiment that it is not that bad, unfortunately it is also not that good either. As an update of FM07 it works for me, but I think the format is now becoming very tired, predicatable and frustrating. I am afraid that FM09 will have to come up with some very new ideas and approaches to get me to fork out for it before it hits the bargain bucket.

I used to be so addicted to FM with 06 and 07 that I would play it at every opportunity, stealing hours here and there and waiting with excitement for the next session. Even to the extend of lying there thinking about the next signing or the tactics to tweak as I drifted off to sleep every night (who needs sheep eh :-)

With FM08, I now just play a couple of hours each week, get bored of the prdicitability and sameness and walk away. It has taken since 14 Feb to get through 1.5 seasons. Actually, I am having more fun with the online Fantasy Football League this year.

To summarise, I would say that FM08 is very much playable, just not that enjoyable and SI really need to do something about that, from my perspective, if FM09 is not going to be a major flop.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by soundian:

1. Board confidence is a mess. I don't know how it got through testing in the form that it's in. They shouldn't need save games for this, merely the ability to switch on a computer and play for a couple of seasons.

2.Agree

3. I've not had a problem with this either.

4. I had this problem with my 8.0.1. game in 8.0.2 but it seems to have sorted itself out after starting a new game.

5.a) Too many times have I watched my star striker knock the ball out for a goal kick when he's under no pressure at all.

b) Can't say I've noticed that but my players can't pass for toffee so the chances of any of them actually managing to be in the same place as the ball before it trundles across the line are slim.

My answers:

1. Yes, I do now, I was going through the motions in 8.0.0 and 8.0.1 but I'm actually enjoying 8.0.2, despite my lack of success so far.

2. No, it has too many bugs and poorly implemented features. The ME is probably on a par or better but the rest of the game needs some TLC.

3.I'll add:

Offsides/Last man: I decided to have a leisurely day yesterday and watch all my matches in full. Nearly every offside decision was wrong (imo), some were very clearly wrong and despite numerous last man fouls not a single player was red carded.

I started to form the theory that the ME was seeing the second last man as last man. I'm probably way off the mark with that but I'll be paying closer attention to it.

Overall FM08 gets a "must try harder" from me.

I'd be prepared to bet that no one actually played the game in testing the way it's played by us customers because there are so many things that could/should have been picked up if they had. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point about offsides, i'd forgotten about them. Although IRL they do get MANY offside decisions wrong every game.

I havent played this game long enough to notice the board confidence bug. Im just finding it a struggle to get a long term game going.I think the amount of complaints about bugs etc are taking their toll on my enjoyment as im half expecting to get sacked for winning the treble!

Ive just started a new game with Malaga in Spanish 2nd and played 10 games and i have scored 1 goal from corners and conceded 2, so no probs so far.

The high scoring games issue- The only high scoring games ive had are a 4-0 win and a 4-2 loss. The AI games though have thrown up some strange scorelines. 8-3, 5-5, 5-4 and 7-4.

I will reserve judgement until i play a couple of seasons.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Good point about offsides, i'd forgotten about them. Although IRL they do get MANY offside decisions wrong every game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not the way they get them wrong in FM though - I have seen them on 8.0.2 where there are two or three defenders clearly playing a guy onside, by metres, and it is still called. Usually on a rebound.

It must be a coding problem as some of the ones that are given on FM seem completely out of whack. Not really the same as getting one wrong when a player is level or just behind before breaking.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oldsoldier reincarnated:

After playing for a couple of weeks now with 8.0.2 I would have to agree with the sentiment that it is not that bad, unfortunately it is also not that good either. As an update of FM07 it works for me, but I think the format is now becoming very tired, predicatable and frustrating. I am afraid that FM09 will have to come up with some very new ideas and approaches to get me to fork out for it before it hits the bargain bucket.

I used to be so addicted to FM with 06 and 07 that I would play it at every opportunity, stealing hours here and there and waiting with excitement for the next session. Even to the extend of lying there thinking about the next signing or the tactics to tweak as I drifted off to sleep every night (who needs sheep eh :-)

With FM08, I now just play a couple of hours each week, get bored of the prdicitability and sameness and walk away. It has taken since 14 Feb to get through 1.5 seasons. Actually, I am having more fun with the online Fantasy Football League this year.

To summarise, I would say that FM08 is very much playable, just not that enjoyable and SI really need to do something about that, from my perspective, if FM09 is not going to be a major flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree with this comment more. I seem to have lost the enjoyment factor I'm trying desparately to get it back but it just seem to happen, and my seasons just take a long time to complete as I shift my attention to other games, which with 07 I never dreamed of doing. Though I'm an optimist and will buy 09 believing that all will be fixed with the world

Yawn.

1) Yes

2) I think with 8.0.2 the game become very good, but I still would be happy too see a 3rd patch which fixes the issues which is still there. I´m hoping for 8.0.3 but don´t think there will be one unfortunately, but still hoping

3) -

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Good point about offsides, i'd forgotten about them. Although IRL they do get MANY offside decisions wrong every game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not the way they get them wrong in FM though - I have seen them on 8.0.2 where there are two or three defenders clearly playing a guy onside, by metres, and it is still called. Usually on a rebound.

It must be a coding problem as some of the ones that are given on FM seem completely out of whack. Not really the same as getting one wrong when a player is level or just behind before breaking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair point, it is something that they appear to have gotten quite wrong. Let's hope it's fixed for 09.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

just what we needed, yet another thread discussing the merits of 8.02.

for someone seemingly so desperate to be a mod, its seems odd that you would ignore one of the basic house rules of checking for other threads before starting a new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ched, you have my sympathy. He does seem to be following you around like a lovesick puppy.

I genuinely believe that FM07 was a far better game. I can't get into FM08 for some reason. It's not taking over my thoughts like FM07 and previous versions did. FM08 is dull and uninspiring. I've finished only one season since I got the game and even after that was finished I started again out of boredom.

As mentioned earlier, FM09 needs something fresh. Most of the features in the game — especially the new ones — add nothing to the game experience. I NEVER respond to media comments since the responses are illogical and dangerous to morale; I only ever give high squad win bonuses since it's ludicrous to do otherwise; the pitch dimensions option is purely superficial; board confidence needs fixing and isn't really a feature; not once have I used the transfer centre, and most importantly, tactics are as ambiguous as ever and still lack the supporting feedback to aid those who have not the time to study matches meticulously.

8.0.2 is not a bad game, but it's not great either. In fact, the potential is there for it to be truly great. However, after the farcical release of a laughable (if only it was funny) boxed version coupled with the fact that the "final version" was not released until 4 months later, I've quite a bitter taste in my mouth. It's gone a bit stale, SI. Give us something new, but fix the thing first. Please? I'll be willing to see this one as a blip if FM09 threatens my marriage like 07 did. I've not had one fight with my wife regarding FM08, because quite frankly, I'd rather sit with her on the couch and watch "What Not to Wear." Trust me when I say that this speaks volumes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

What Still Needs Fixing

1 - Board confidence - Miles claimed to be unaware of the limitations of this feature, i'm willing to accept that for now, however i feel i've said all i need to here. I really don't feel that any of the points really need save games to support them, but they can be provided if they are needed.

Frankly Miles claims a lot of things which are more often than not untrue. He's either a liar or deeply lacking in basic skills when it comes to Public Relations. Board confidence is a complete mess. It's one of the reasons my time is now divided between FM07 and CM08.

2 - Transfer Mech - again i don't feel i need to elaborate on this.

Agreed. Transfers are a shambles. Again, basic AI mistakes, really I would love to know how the idiot coding this stuff got his/her job.

3 - Corners - in 14 seasons i have yet to experience a problem with scoring too many corners or conceding too many corners. HOWEVER, that is not to say there isn't a problem, just that i haven't experienced it.

Personally i see no problem with telling my players not to challenge the GK, and therefore having a more realistic scoreline.

I only played 8.0.2 for a fairly short time, and found it to still be rubbish so I didn't really test this in depth but there's definitely something suspect here. Considering the effort to avoid 'diablo' scenarios I find it amazing that SI let this one just sit there unattended.

4 - Scoring too many goals - in the first save i used, there was no problem with this whatsoever. However, in my more recent game, there have been some daft results such as arsenal beating spurs 8-0, and in general the scoring was MUCH higher. That said, i do appreciate it is an exceptionally tricky thing to balance for SI, considering that there are dozens of leagues in tens of nations. I personally prefer there to be too many goals rather than too few.

Numbers of goals are perhaps a little out, but that's a smaller worry really, if it's the same on all sides. Does it affect enjoyment? For me that's not what kills it.

5 - ME glitches - having watched a fair few matches on full detail, a few alarming issues appeared:

a) players "clearing" the ball when they are in attacking positions. Several times, i've had wingers just knock the ball into touch rather than behave sensibly.

b) a much more frequent problem is that players seem to lose all control of a ball when it is close to a touch line. Players under no pressure REGULARLY concede throw ins and corners just because they knock the ball out of play for no apparent reason. This has happened at all levels so it's not just my incompotent vauxhall players.

To be honest I've not studied it in that much detail but the match engine does have faults. The main one is simply that it gives no real feedback to the user about what s/he is doing wrong.

Positives

1 - This game is still far and away the best football game available. Yes it has faults, but they are substantially fewer compared to CM or Fifa.

Actually I disagree. CM isn't bad at all, and the point is that while it may have more faults, it is FUN. FM is not fun. Hidden and dangerous was a great game, despite being bugged to hell. Why? Because it was a fun game, and when a game is fun you can forgive bugs. FM is not fun so the bugs become more noticable.

2 - 8.0.2 removes the vast majority of problems 8.0.0 had. I am in no way claiming 8.0.0 was anything but a dismal effort, however i feel that 8.0.2 has removed most of the problems found in boxed version, and as such, SI should be applauded for fixing the game.

It hasn't fixed the fundamental problem that FM08 isn't fun.

3 - ME, when 8.0.0 was released several SI members of staff said that they felt the FM08 ME had the potential to be the best ever, i was not convinced. After the problems have beeen ironed out however, i must agree, that te current ME is by far the best available, yes there are problems, but anybody who thinks they can produce a perfect game is quite clearly looney.

I don't expect a perfect game. As I say above, I can live with bugs if the game is still enjoyable. FM is NOT the best even in the FM/CM series, let alone in the market as a whole.

1/ Do you enjoy FM08

No. I have never before gone back a version, and the last competing games I played regularly were Premier Manager on the Amiga and Player Manager on the Atari ST. I now play FM07 a little and CM08 a lot.[b/]

2/ Do you feel it is better than FM07

It isn't fun. FM07 wasn't brilliant but it was less painful to play than 08.

3/ Are there any bugs that you feel are significant that i haven't experienced - please elaborate.

Again the focus on bugs is wrong I think. That said, the bugs do illustrate that SI have lost their way a bit. They keep buggering up the main release and then have to use a lot of time and resources to fix those bugs which takes time away from development and testing of the next game, so more bugs creep into the next release and so on.

I also think the game engine for the CM4-FM08 series is horrible. It's an unoptimized mess when you compare it to the speed of CM08. I remember a conversation with one of the devs on here about a scrolling ticker and at the time they said it would take too much processor power. That's the standard of devs SI has. They desperately need to look at that, especially when you consider the way that CM08 is so very responsive. For me the game has gone backwards since the switch to the new engine, and maybe it's time to develop a new engine, closer in style to the CM3 series, which in comparison was much more optimised.

The game needs two things to bring it back to greatness. The first is a return of the element of fun. Fun should not be a dirty word. We play games for fun. The second is a serious look at the code, which I think has gotten out of SIs control. It needs pruning, and fixing right at the core. I've worked with enough developers to know the scenario, I've seen code get to a point where it's just a big pain in the ass, draining resources, with things breaking constantly. The devs that stayed in business did the sensible thing and put it out of its misery.

SI has lost respect in this release, from the hard core FM fans, but also more importantly from the gaming press. They won't get the easy ride they usually do next time. Reviews have been conducted on the assumption of SI's traditional long-lasting enjoyability. I suspect that reviews might now focus instead on the tendency for bugs to need ironing out and encourage people to wait til Feb. We'll see, but I can see scores going down unless SI pulls something out of the bag with FM09.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't understand how you can complain so much about FM's faults yet happily play CM.

Ackter I know you're smarter than that. If you had read what I posted rather than just jumping in looking for a dispute, as is your way, you would have got the point.

In 3 simple paragraphs.

1. FM is not fun. Bugs are harder to tolerate when not having fun.

2. CM has faults, I agree. But the thing is, CM is actually fun. When you have fun you don't notice the bugs.

3. Another example of where fun can overrule bugs. Hidden & Dangerous. Bugged to hell. Soldiers getting stuck in scenery etc. But, the game was a shedload of fun. Did I give a monkeys toss about the bugs? Did I hell. I was having too much fun to care. The sign of a great game is the ability to enjoy it even despite the bugs.

Originally posted by Ched:

b) a much more frequent problem is that players seem to lose all control of a ball when it is close to a touch line. Players under no pressure REGULARLY concede throw ins and corners just because they knock the ball out of play for no apparent reason. This has happened at all levels so it's not just my incompotent vauxhall players.

This is by far the most annoying thing bug 8.0.2 . That said:

1. I love FM08

2. It's miles better then 07

3. I wouldn't know about 90% of the bugs were it not for these forums.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Posted 09 March 2008 01:57 </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Seagulls Forever

Great post!

FM07 was the bizz. I played that game from the moment I bought it right up until I got FM08 - it was THAT addictive. FM08 on the other hand is becoming boring now, which doesn't make any sense at all, as it's much better than the last one. Maybe it's because I win everything I touch. Won the 2016 Euro's with Scotland, and 2 years later the 2018 WC. With Milan I have won countless Serie A titles and other cups. With Sevilla it's pretty much the same. With Arbroath FC, i have got them into the SPL, from all the way from the 3rd Division, and that was done in successive seasons.. I can see me retiring FM08 come April 29.. but not because it's rubbish, absolutely no way.

I agree with moost of the points. Especially the transfer mech! I am man City in a network game with my friend. AC Milan bid 25 mil + Gourcuff for Micah Richards...i accept but gourcuff doesn't want to come to me. Fair enough!

I then get gourcuff on loan, he plays some games with my team, looks happy playing well, so i decide i will try and bid for him, maybe he will want to come to me now!

So i bid 10 Mil, they say no....15Mil they say...NO give us 20Mil and Micah richards!

So Richards has now gone from a value of 25 million and gourcuff, to minus 25 million + gourcuff>

Pretty stupid to say the least.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

Can't understand how you can complain so much about FM's faults yet happily play CM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't understand why he would play CM in the first place! It's still way belows SI standards. And it needs a patch and BSG are not doing one.

I'll confirm this AGAIN.

I play a bog standard 4-4-2 with minor tweaks to the team instructions and my Leeds team have scored 18 goals from 38 from corners.

I have conceded over 60% of goals from corners too.

This is a bug, I have NOT set anyone to challenge the keeper.

It is hampering any career game in FM08.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seagulls Forever:

Ackter I know you're smarter than that. If you had read what I posted rather than just jumping in looking for a dispute, as is your way, you would have got the point.

In 3 simple paragraphs.

1. FM is not fun. Bugs are harder to tolerate when not having fun.

2. CM has faults, I agree. But the thing is, CM is actually fun. When you have fun you don't notice the bugs.

3. Another example of where fun can overrule bugs. Hidden & Dangerous. Bugged to hell. Soldiers getting stuck in scenery etc. But, the game was a shedload of fun. Did I give a monkeys toss about the bugs? Did I hell. I was having too much fun to care. The sign of a great game is the ability to enjoy it even despite the bugs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm assuming you close your eyes for every match then?

at the end of a 34 game season my side have scored 79 goals and conceded 74, playing a fairly neutral 4-4-2

i'd estimate that around 50% of shots on target resulted in goals, both for me and for the opposition

loads of corners going in too, despite not taking advantage of the near post and challenge keeper bugs. the ai seems to be scoring way too many from corners

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can't understand how you can complain so much about FM's faults yet happily play CM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe there are no people like you on the CM forums? Just a guess.