Do you want SI to keep the CCC stat in?

As the title says really.

There is much discussion over CCC's and very little agreement between everyone.

SI introduced CCC's due to too many complaints about number of shots vs goals and difficulty in judging whether it was an easy chance or not. Now with the advent and advancement of the ME, I never pay any attention to CCC's and I judge each shot on its own merits.

So, would you like SI to continue showing you this stat or are we all ready to move on and judge for ourselves?

3 simple options, yes, no or don't know.

The answer is that SI need to explain this more. I've no doubt its representive of footy irl but it seems to make people angry when their team loses to a side thats inferior and has less chances, which again we know does happen. I'm sure in game when someone wins they overlook this if they had less ccc chances

So in summary - we need SI to explain this better so for me...keep it in

Although there has been advances in the ME I still feel I've had more CCC's than the game credits me for. Possibly Fm12 we could be thinking about loosing the stat but I would almost expect the ME to be good enough by FM13

The ccc stat needs to be reworked imo. It's saying that there are too many, counting chances that shouldn't be classed. This is giving people the wrong impression, and as seen in the past few days, loads of silly threads about it.

Yes, keep it, just make it a bit more accurate

Maybe I needed a 4th option, keep it and rework it. I'm intrigued by McRichies post, you say you have more than the game says? Most people think they are having less than the game says. Interesting.

It's useful; I'd like it kept.

What are CCC's?

The ccc stat needs to be reworked imo. It's saying that there are too many, counting chances that shouldn't be classed. This is giving people the wrong impression, and as seen in the past few days, loads of silly threads about it.

This!

There are even free-kicks at the edge of the area that count as a CCC, shots from just outside the area, headers from terrible angles,etc.

That's what leads to all the complaining.. either rework it or remove it entirely, and the only thing that bothers me is if missing one of those CCC's that really isn't that "clear" effects the morale of a player during the match negatively...

Just because I ignore it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be in there.

This!

There are even free-kicks at the edge of the area that count as a CCC, shots from just outside the area, headers from terrible angles,etc.

That's what leads to all the complaining.. either rework it or remove it entirely, and the only thing that bothers me is if missing one of those CCC's that really isn't that "clear" effects the morale of a player during the match negatively...

Well I very rarely create any CCC so not fussed about morale

Don't really care tbh.

I rarely look at match stats as it is. I mainly just look a overall stats such as goals for every shot

I dislike any statistic that requires a judgment call to determine if it's occurred. It's why I hate the "error" statistic in a baseball game. CCCs are clearly a matter of judgment, and when it comes to judgment, computers are notorious for having none. Get rid of it.

Besides, then Sheva will be a happier person, since he won't realize just exactly how impotent his strikers are.

I dislike any statistic that requires a judgment call to determine if it's occurred. It's why I hate the "error" statistic in a baseball game. CCCs are clearly a matter of judgment, and when it comes to judgment, computers are notorious for having none. Get rid of it.

Besides, then Sheva will be a happier person, since he won't realize just exactly how impotent his strikers are.

Shh, no one else say his name, I think its like the candyman

Good argument against too

Dont want it, turns out the only reason its in the game is becuase users asked for it (thanks Jedispur for the info). A CCC is a judgement call, not some well defined thing. Take it out

Not that bothered, but would prefer it taken out or renamed just 'chances' as it creates a lot of confusing and a lot of threads about having all the ccc's and not scoring and losing from opponents who have had less ccc's from a certain member of these forums.

The proliferation of moans about CCC's is what has motivated me to push for this. The users demand its included, SI do so, the users then use it as a stick to beat SI with. They are obviously masochists.

I guess it should go unless we get actual complete clarification from SI as to what counts as a CCC. Until then, it's just a mis-leading stat really, as we don't know exactly what it means.

If they give us the clarification though, then I'm fine with it.

Yes, its a key stat when I analyse my matches

Are CCCs on FM realistic? (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/246570-Are-clear-cuts-chances-on-FM-realistic-compared-to-real-life)

YES 28.13%

NO 71.88%

Should SI keep the CCC stat in the game?

YES 69.57%

NO 26.09%

General opinion - "they're unrealistic, but keep them in the game!"

Irrefutable proof that FM players are completely insane...

General opinion - "they're unrealistic, but keep them in the game!"

Irrefutable proof that FM players are completely insane...

haha!

But I think people wants it in the game but it needs to be tweaked.

haha!

But I think people wants it in the game but it needs to be tweaked.

They are what they are for me - a chance on goal that's a little bit more likely to result in a goal than a standard shot on target.

Doesn't need to be tweaked - what needs to be tweaked is how people view and utilise the statistic in their brains, or it needs to be removed from the game to prevent idiots placing too much emphasis on it.

General opinion - "they're unrealistic, but keep them in the game!"

Irrefutable proof that FM players are completely insane...

Genius.

They are what they are for me - a chance on goal that's a little bit more likely to result in a goal than a standard shot on target.

Doesn't need to be tweaked - what needs to be tweaked is how people view and utilise the statistic in their brains, or it needs to be removed from the game to prevent idiots placing too much emphasis on it.

Yes, its a key stat when I analyse my matches

Same as greenwhitearmy said.

It's a key statistic for tweaking my defense line.

It wouldn't make any sense to leave it out but it certainly needs a review because it doesn't always seem correct.

Same as greenwhitearmy said.

It's a key statistic for tweaking my defense line.

It wouldn't make any sense to leave it out but it certainly needs a review because it doesn't always seem correct.

How?

Seriously, how is it a key statistic in tweaking your D-Line in comparison to general possession, blocked shots and long range shots?

Also, what's your definition of a CCC which makes you believe it is important for your defensive tactical tweaking?

Same as greenwhitearmy said.

It's a key statistic for tweaking my defense line.

It wouldn't make any sense to leave it out but it certainly needs a review because it doesn't always seem correct.

If its not always correct, why are you using it as a key stat for tweaking anything?

In my opinion, a CCC should be any chance that is equal to the difficulty of a penalty or easier. In other words, you would certainly expect the player to score when he got one.

In my opinion, a CCC should be any chance that is equal to the difficulty of a penalty or easier. In other words, you would certainly expect the player to score when he got one.

Apparently, the words "clear cut" have clouded your understanding of the word "chance". Because that definition isn't a CCC - instead, it is what is commonly known as a "sitter".

Sadly, the way you're viewing a CCC is how most people do and is why it'd be easier to just remove it from the game and just have the "Shots on Target" stat (which does the same job), or rename "Clear Cut Chance" to "Chance".

Apparently, the words "clear cut" have clouded your understanding of the word "chance". Because that definition isn't a CCC - instead, it is what is commonly known as a "sitter".

Sadly, the way you're viewing a CCC is how most people do and is why it'd be easier to just remove it from the game and just have the "Shots on Target" stat (which does the same job), or rename "Clear Cut Chance" to "Chance".

Bur how would "Chance" be different from "Shot"? CCCs are a usless stat, otherwise it would exist IRL. We should get the same statistical analysis a real manager has access to...maybe SI needs to talk to some (more) real managers about this...

If its not always correct, why are you using it as a key stat for tweaking anything?

When a player is clear through a few times in short period of time, wouldn't you tweak your D-line?

Well the CCC's reflects the 1b1's and when it happens a few times in lets say 15 mins I automatically play more conservative.

The ME may not reflect it always but it does help most of the time unless your opponent is much stronger then you.

And I'm not saying I fully agree with what should be described as a CCC because imo it's much much broader then what it is in the game but totally ignoring the stat is far worse.

When a player is clear through a few times in short period of time, wouldn't you tweak your D-line?

Well the CCC's reflects the 1b1's and when it happens a few times in lets say 15 mins I automatically play more conservative.

The ME may not reflect it always but it does help most of the time unless your opponent is much stronger then you.

And I'm not saying I fully agree with what should be described as a CCC because imo it's much much broader then what it is in the game but totally ignoring the stat is far worse.

That wasn't my point, of course if I see a problem then I'll address it but I would never trust a tool or stat that I myself have branded 'not always correct'. You see what I mean?

That wasn't my point, of course if I see a problem then I'll address it but I would never trust a tool or stat that I myself have branded 'not always correct'. You see what I mean?

Strangely enough I do agree with you, but I don't always trust the match engine.

Maybe the stat should be renamed to Clean Through Chance because that is what it represents most of the time in the game but imo a CCC is much broader.

For example any player who is unmarked in the area should be considered as a CCC but it isn't in the game that is what I mean with "not always right".

Anyway when my team suffers a few in short period I always change my D-line and it does seem to help most of the time.

It's not really tweaking but more anticipating in what the game (code) tries to tell me.

All they seem to be used for are for the sad little losers on this forum constantly moaning about how many CCC's they have but how little goals they score.

It's nothing to do with that, it's to do with your tactics being wrong or your players being poor. It's just fuel for idiots.

Get rid of it I say. What constitutes a clear chance is still very vague to me. Not to mention a clear cut chance should differ greatly between different levels of football, and various players too.

How can you used something to analyze the performance of your defenders, when you can't even define what it is you are using to analyze the performance of your defenders??

For example:

I see three CCC dots on my Analysis plot. They are from about six yards out, spaced along the goal area line. Two of them scored. I think to myself, "Man, I must be letting a lot of balls get through on goal; better work to stop the 1 on 1's!" So I set a deeper lline of defense.

As it turns out, two of the three CCC's came from "free" headers off of corner kicks, both of which scored. The third represents a cross from the byline to an open, onrushing midfielder, my midfield having not gotten back fast enough when the opponents were on a wing counter-attack. Fortunately, he skied his kick over the bar, resulting in the commentary, "Even his manager's got his head in his hands!" Thus, my attempt to rectify the situation is doomed to failure, because I'm not actually dealing with the problem.

And how would I know for sure there WAS a problem? Take the idea of a "free" header. How free is "free?" That's a judgment call. I've seen goals scored in the game by my players on corners where I thought a CCC was definitely going to be awarded, and it doesn't even show as a "half-chance." So long as you a) don't know what a CCC is (in the game's terms) and b) have to rely upon the game to use its "judgment" to determine if one has happened, I'm not sure you can reach many meaningful conclusions.

And, in fact, they do end up misleading a lot of players of the game, to judge by the number of threads here in GD that cite the stat in support of a supposedly flawed match engine.

Honestly I stopped caring about this stat a while ago.

I care more about my strikers getting shots on target.

I want them scoring goals whether their chances are 'clear cut' or whether its an eighth of a chance.

I've always felt that people have put too much emphasis on this stat. It has been basis of many rage threads where an FM player has 6 CCCs while the opposition has none and the player loses 2-0.

to be honest, the stats don't bother me in the slightest...

I watch the full 90 minutes and I can see for myself where things are going wrong... (mostly - the Me isn't a perfect representation of what's really happening)

If I see my centre-mid constantly passing the ball out of play/to the opposition, I make the relevant changes to rectify it..

if my full-back is too high up the pitch, I make the relevant change...

if my striker is wasting glorious opportunities - I make the relevant change...

I'm not saying that I'm 100% successful with my changes, and I don't necessarily mean substitutions, but I can see for myself if I have 'got it right' or not...

(and the striker is likely to be hauled into my office the next day )

I'm really not too fussed as I watch all my games and prefer to decide for myself how good my chances are.

I'd keep it. Remove it, and people will just revert to "I had 50 shots and didn't score".

IMO, a CCC should be chalked up if a defender would have been sent off for fouling the attacker at that point.

I'd keep it. Remove it, and people will just revert to "I had 50 shots and didn't score".

IMO, a CCC should be chalked up if a defender would have been sent off for fouling the attacker at that point.

A defender can be sent off for hauling back an attacker at just past the half-way line, if he's the last defender. Surely you don't mean this?

A defender can be sent off for hauling back an attacker at just past the half-way line, if he's the last defender. Surely you don't mean this?

Surely a defender can be sent off in the oppositions penalty box if he kicks a player in the head... I know that's not what you were implying tho.

But in the example given, last defender in the centre circle, whole team running back to catch that quick striker who's otherwise running at just the keeper? Surely that is a clear cut chance to score, it's a one v one against te keeper, just starting from a long way out.

A defender can be sent off for hauling back an attacker at just past the half-way line, if he's the last defender. Surely you don't mean this?

Given that the reason the defender is sent off is because he's the last man and the foul is a professional attempt to prevent a clear cut chance on goal, then it makes perfect sense doesn't it

I'm really not too fussed as I watch all my games and prefer to decide for myself how good my chances are.

If I score then my chances were good enough

I call that "taking one for the team" and only give him a warning instead of the usual fine for a straight red

Surely a defender can be sent off in the oppositions penalty box if he kicks a player in the head... I know that's not what you were implying tho.

But in the example given, last defender in the centre circle, whole team running back to catch that quick striker who's otherwise running at just the keeper? Surely that is a clear cut chance to score, it's a one v one against te keeper, just starting from a long way out.

Given that the reason the defender is sent off is because he's the last man and the foul is a professional attempt to prevent a clear cut chance on goal, then it makes perfect sense doesn't it

Think when the "chance" occurs. It's when he actually strikes the ball at goal, not when he starts the breakaway, where the professional foul occurs. Assume he's not fouled. But on the way in during the one-on-one, he manages to get a poor touch, and the 'keeper manages to tackle the ball away. What happened to the CCC?

A "Clear Cut Chance" is a "shot" (headers etc. included) where, if anything, you are unhassled with a very good chance of your shot not being intercepted by the keeper if taken properly. Like pornography, we would know it when we see it. The computer, not so much.

Think when the "chance" occurs. It's when he actually strikes the ball at goal, not when he starts the breakaway, where the professional foul occurs. Assume he's not fouled. But on the way in during the one-on-one, he manages to get a poor touch, and the 'keeper manages to tackle the ball away. What happened to the CCC?

A "Clear Cut Chance" is a "shot" (headers etc. included) where, if anything, you are unhassled with a very good chance of your shot not being intercepted by the keeper if taken properly. Like pornography, we would know it when we see it. The computer, not so much.

I'd argue that a chance is very different to a shot on goal. So in all honesty I think the chance begins as soon as the player has the ball in a promising area.

How many times have you heard a commentator say "<Player> has a chance on goal here!" whilst running with the ball, bearing down on goal and before he even gets into the opposition penalty area?

Like I say, the professional foul preventing a clear cut chance on goal is the reason the player would be sent off.

Of course, I highly doubt that in the FM match engine this is what is characterised as a chance, but it should be. Otherwise, I really don't see the difference for any real analytical purposes between the standard "Shots on Target" statistic and a CCC.

must be corrected... i had one game with 6 shots-5 on target-5 goals yet 5 ccc..confusing

must be corrected... i had one game with 6 shots-5 on target-5 goals yet 5 ccc..confusing

Whats confusing you?