Defending/Marking

This is something that's annoyed the hell out of me for ages. Now, I know I'm Huddersfield, so my players stats won't be the best ever, but for crying out loud, how hard can it be to either tackle a player, jump when you're both going for the ball, stand in front of the man you're marking (eg at a corner, and your player and the oppo player are stood together, they don't move from their positions, but the oppo player is in front of your defender. That's absolutely pathetic and so unrealistic it's untrue). Another thing that annoys me is the ball can be played across, and instead of going for the oppo player, the player turns his back and runs to the other side, giving the oppo player a stupidly easy chance on goal. As I said, I know my players stats won't be the best ever, but I honestly don't think that's a good enough excuse for some of the things I've just mentioned now. Really annoys me. It's the basics of defending for crying out loud! Since when did a ball coming across the box mean a defender should run away from the man he's meant to be marking, turning his back on him?!!!!

Haha, the defenders in the game are ridiculously bad, I love when they run away from the ball/player, though my personal favourite is when they're stood on the post and just watch the ball go in right next to them (and some times off them) and then they just walk off depressed!

Haha, the defenders in the game are ridiculously bad, I love when they run away from the ball/player, though my personal favourite is when they're stood on the post and just watch the ball go in right next to them (and some times off them) and then they just walk off depressed!

That's another major annoyance which I'd forgotten about, yes, standing on the post, and making no effort whatsoever to clear the ball, just allowing it to go past them, even if it's only a couple of inches away.

While I think about it, another 1 is, although not strictly defender related, is when an oppo player has a shot, and your keeper just stands there. Doesn't he know how to get down? Or how to move his hands and body to stop a shot? All they seem to know how to do is just watch the ball be hit past them, with no attempt to try and save it.

This isn't RL.

There are only a limited number of animations available to display. Just because the graphics showed your keeper standing still as a goal was scored it doesn't mean he didn't make the effort. Simply put the ME calculated all the variables and decided a goal was scored then picked an animation that best fitted that scenario.

I'm in agreement with the previous poster. The match engine is just a representation of what is happening in the game.

when i was in the championship teams always used to score free headers from crosses virtually every game. i wouldnt mind but not 1 defender would ever try and get to the ball

This isn't RL.

There are only a limited number of animations available to display. Just because the graphics showed your keeper standing still as a goal was scored it doesn't mean he didn't make the effort. Simply put the ME calculated all the variables and decided a goal was scored then picked an animation that best fitted that scenario.

That's exactly right. What you see shouldn't be taken literally.

This is something that's annoyed the hell out of me for ages. Now, I know I'm Huddersfield, so my players stats won't be the best ever, but for crying out loud, how hard can it be to either tackle a player, jump when you're both going for the ball, stand in front of the man you're marking (eg at a corner, and your player and the oppo player are stood together, they don't move from their positions, but the oppo player is in front of your defender. That's absolutely pathetic and so unrealistic it's untrue). Another thing that annoys me is the ball can be played across, and instead of going for the oppo player, the player turns his back and runs to the other side, giving the oppo player a stupidly easy chance on goal. As I said, I know my players stats won't be the best ever, but I honestly don't think that's a good enough excuse for some of the things I've just mentioned now. Really annoys me. It's the basics of defending for crying out loud! Since when did a ball coming across the box mean a defender should run away from the man he's meant to be marking, turning his back on him?!!!!

You've obviously never coached real-life players.

I'm being serious here. As a coach of soccer, I can assert to you that, much as you'd like to disbelieve it, players often do really, really dumb things on the field. You can tell them over and over that you want them to mark the opposition tight, and show them examples of what you mean, to the point of it almost being embarrassingly pornographic, and they will still stand 4-5 feet away in the game. And if you yell at them to "mark up!", they will point at the guy they aren't even able to touch if they had the arms of the Swamp Thing to show that they are, indeed, "marked up!"

Now, obviously, as the level of the play progresses up the pyramid, this gets less true, but even so, watch an EPL game carefully and see just how often defenders end up standing too far away, or failing to follow their marks.

I personally love it whe the opp player gets the ball while everyone is in their half and my defenders run all the way back to their positions right in my area before coming out to defend. By which time the. Opp is right in my area!

My two full backs who stay back during corners actually ran back to centre back positions while the opp stormed down the wing and into my area.

Well, as to that situation, in large part that's been sorted out with the 11.1 patch, and also I note that their willingness to stray diagonally to defend wings is related in large measure to how rigid or loose a system you play. Obviously, if you play with a rigid scheme, they have the fear of God in them should they dare to go off to the side of the pitch and defend! <lol>

Just remember the 3D view of the Match Engine has only been going since FM 09 and it isn't perfect yet... Usually what the player actually does is not quite a perfect representation of what the Engine has calculated. It can only get better and therefore more accurate representations will be shown. You defenders are probably doing all of the things they are asked but maybe they are being outclassed and to show the difference it may look as if they are doing something completely stupid, although you aren't at the highest level so the chance of them making silly decisions is higher.

Simply, your defenders are probably trying to do what they can but it isn't being represented 100% accurately. I don't have any knowledge into how the ME works but that's the conclusion I've came to and I am much less angry at any mistakes my team makes

This is something that's annoyed the hell out of me for ages. Now, I know I'm Huddersfield, so my players stats won't be the best ever, but for crying out loud, how hard can it be to either tackle a player, jump when you're both going for the ball, stand in front of the man you're marking (eg at a corner, and your player and the oppo player are stood together, they don't move from their positions, but the oppo player is in front of your defender. That's absolutely pathetic and so unrealistic it's untrue). Another thing that annoys me is the ball can be played across, and instead of going for the oppo player, the player turns his back and runs to the other side, giving the oppo player a stupidly easy chance on goal. As I said, I know my players stats won't be the best ever, but I honestly don't think that's a good enough excuse for some of the things I've just mentioned now. Really annoys me. It's the basics of defending for crying out loud! Since when did a ball coming across the box mean a defender should run away from the man he's meant to be marking, turning his back on him?!!!!

You want to try going and watching the REAL Huddersfield sometime... you'd see that the game is pretty accurate at times (sadly...)

Seriously, we can be awesome one week and diabolical the next...

Here's another one! When the oppo play yet another perfectly placed ball over the head of your full back to the winger (because the dumb sod has left him standing 10 yards goal side, unmarked), why does he then turn and run back towards the penalty area and let the centre back chase out wide to see to the winger. The defending in the match as a whole is pretty naff to be honest.

Here's another one! When the oppo play yet another perfectly placed ball over the head of your full back to the winger (because the dumb sod has left him standing 10 yards goal side, unmarked), why does he then turn and run back towards the penalty area and let the centre back chase out wide to see to the winger. The defending in the match as a whole is pretty naff to be honest.

Actually, that might very well be proper defending. You would want the center back to go and cover the mistake, and in that case, the outside back has to drop into the space the center back has left open to cover it. And the angles might very well be better to defend from the side, rather than trying to chase back from behind the attacking player.

Just remember the 3D view of the Match Engine has only been going since FM 09 and it isn't perfect yet... Usually what the player actually does is not quite a perfect representation of what the Engine has calculated. It can only get better and therefore more accurate representations will be shown. You defenders are probably doing all of the things they are asked but maybe they are being outclassed and to show the difference it may look as if they are doing something completely stupid, although you aren't at the highest level so the chance of them making silly decisions is higher.

Simply, your defenders are probably trying to do what they can but it isn't being represented 100% accurately. I don't have any knowledge into how the ME works but that's the conclusion I've came to and I am much less angry at any mistakes my team makes

The old '3d view is just a representation' excuse seems to be popping up everywhere this year. Why can't people just accept that the whole defending/marking/positioning part of the me is ****. I don't know what si have done but pre hot'fix' 11.2.1 it seemed to be better.

Actually, that might very well be proper defending. You would want the center back to go and cover the mistake, and in that case, the outside back has to drop into the space the center back has left open to cover it. And the angles might very well be better to defend from the side, rather than trying to chase back from behind the attacking player.

Yes I could see your point here mate, if the centre back wasn't about 20 yards further away than the full back was.

The old '3d view is just a representation' excuse seems to be popping up everywhere this year. Why can't people just accept that the whole defending/marking/positioning part of the me is ****. I don't know what si have done but pre hot'fix' 11.2.1 it seemed to be better.

Agreed NSD! Apart from the fact it would lead off topic for this thread, there are now loads of stupid 'out of position' and 'poor marking' comments we could add here. The 11.2 patch may have fixed a few things with-in the game it's self but to me the 3D match is now far worse than it was.

If marking or positioning was really crap in the game, the amount of goals scored would be much higher in the game and would not be realistic. But it isn't the case.

That's why I think the mistakes you can see in the 3D view are only the unaccurate representation the ME does from a calculated situation (as it has been said before).

At the moment, you should consider your defender made a mistake only if you see a text comment on it (or a sudden drop in ratings).

If marking or positioning was really crap in the game, the amount of goals scored would be much higher in the game and would not be realistic. But it isn't the case.

That's why I think the mistakes you can see in the 3D view are only the unaccurate representation the ME does from a calculated situation (as it has been said before).

At the moment, you should consider your defender made a mistake only if you see a text comment on it (or a sudden drop in ratings).

If that were the case, why does it keep 'representing' that my winger is always the first one to head the ball after my striker/strikers have just crossed it because yet again they are both playing further wide than either of my wingers. My two strikers have instructions not to go out wide 'cut inside' and 'run into channels' are used but both of them are continually much wider out than wingers..... There are lot's of other things as I said before but we'd be going off topic.

Yes I could see your point here mate, if the centre back wasn't about 20 yards further away than the full back was.

But that's still a simplistic way to view it. Look at it this way:

I'm in a car, chasing after a car. Both cars go about the same speed. Will I ever catch the other car?

My buddy is on a side street further away, but he can get to a spot between the car I'm chasing and the center of town, where the package in the car I'm chasing has to go. Who, then, is more likely to be able to stop the package from getting there?

One other thing to keep in mind here: in real life, that winger who got the ball is actually going to angle in as he makes his attack. Unlike the ME representation of the winger, who mindlessly heads directly to the corner flag before attempting to whip in the cross.

If someone (beyond my control) hadn't parked the bloody car in the wrong spot in the first place you need to be chasing.

So the dribbling made by my attacker is not a dribble but something else? And when the opposition striker falls down under a tackle by my player, it is not exactly a tackle but the other player was supposed to fall and my defender gave him a lending hand? Clear rubbish!!! The problem is that this type of defending problem has been there in 09,10 and now 11. No one came up with the "3d view is just a representation" excuse. Maybe someone from SI gave this as a valid excuse with regards to some problem in the ME and now every single bug in the ME is supposed to be misrepresented in 3D view.

p.s: So does this mean that the whole graphical representation is just a stupid feature? We are supposed to look at what is happening at the game and then decide what changes have to be made...so if what we are looking at is not real (at least according to the ME) then where does it leave us?

So the dribbling made by my attacker is not a dribble but something else? And when the opposition striker falls down under a tackle by my player, it is not exactly a tackle but the other player was supposed to fall and my defender gave him a lending hand? Clear rubbish!!! The problem is that this type of defending problem has been there in 09,10 and now 11. No one came up with the "3d view is just a representation" excuse. Maybe someone from SI gave this as a valid excuse with regards to some problem in the ME and now every single bug in the ME is supposed to be misrepresented in 3D view.

p.s: So does this mean that the whole graphical representation is just a stupid feature? We are supposed to look at what is happening at the game and then decide what changes have to be made...so if what we are looking at is not real (at least according to the ME) then where does it leave us?

i agree. I see a long ball launched upfield my defender has no one around him and he completely misses the header to allow the oppo's striker to run in on goal. My defenders have 16 for jumping and 14 for heading. Pretty decent stats. I understand poor marking from corners or mistimed tackles but missing a free header without any pressure. It's a poor example of showing how bad your tactics are. On the other hand there are examples of how to change things like long balls over the top where you need to defend deeper or mark an opposing player.

I find in general that as FM becomes more realistic, peoples frustrations also rise because, simply, football is frustrating. That's why Roy Hodgson can be seen rubbing his face or with his head in his hands every game even at the highest level. Football is simple but when you have two teams trying to do the simple things then you can't both win. When you moan about the defender losing his man, another person will ask how hard is it for his striker to lose his marker?

Don't get me wrong, the ME has issues. I just don't think this is a great problem.

You call the ME realistic? Yes poor defending does occur in real life...even the best defenders perform poorly on occasions...however the mistakes they make are logical which of course is not the case in FM. If a player is simply out of position, then yes one can understand..but when the opposition clears my corner with a punt to the wings and my central defender (who is marking the single attacker who runs towards the ball) is more interested in running back to the penalty box to be in position rather than try to prevent the attacker from getting to the ball or my central defender and my full back have swapped places and then decide to get back to their correct position leaving the attacking winger all alone on the wings with the ball, then it is really frustrating...frustrating not realistic..

If someone (beyond my control) hadn't parked the bloody car in the wrong spot in the first place you need to be chasing.

Heh, not quite cogent, but I do get the meaning!

Have you never seen that happen in real life? Happens with my players all the time. That's why I've decided to coach golf this spring, instead. You don't usually find them going to the third hole when they are supposed to be playing the second one.

Heh, not quite cogent, but I do get the meaning!

Have you never seen that happen in real life? Happens with my players all the time. That's why I've decided to coach golf this spring, instead. You don't usually find them going to the third hole when they are supposed to be playing the second one.

No disrespect meant but at what level were you coaching?