Transfer to go through in.. 2 years from now??

Got my hands on this fine youngster in my Barca game

I don't think I messed around with the transfer date, so shouldn't it be "Next available"? Surely a 2-year wait is too long. Bug or what?

he's an under 18 year old brazilian, he wont sign until he turns 18

It has always been like this. Brazilian kids can't move until they're 18.

ugh, ok, thx. Wish I had read the fineprint

It's the same with Russian and Ukrainian players. Probably a few other nations also.

This is right in game but inacurate IRL.

The current Barcelona youth team is full of foreign youngsters except they all have dual nationality which FM will not let you gain unless you first sign as a foreign player and then reside within the country yet look at the Barcelona youth team and its full of dual nationals, some south americans, some africans, some Europeans.

This is right in game but inacurate IRL.

The current Barcelona youth team is full of foreign youngsters except they all have dual nationality which FM will not let you gain unless you first sign as a foreign player and then reside within the country yet look at the Barcelona youth team and its full of dual nationals, some south americans, some africans, some Europeans.

Newgens are often born with dual nationallity in FM.

I could be wrong, but I think U18 Brazilians can move to Europe if it is to the country of their second nationality. In other words, Barcelona could take loads of Brazilian kids to Spain if they have Spanish as second nationality.

Newgens are often born with dual nationallity in FM.

I could be wrong, but I think U18 Brazilians can move to Europe if it is to the country of their second nationality. In other words, Barcelona could take loads of Brazilian kids to Spain if they have Spanish as second nationality.

exactly correct, the biggest problem with this rule in FM is in real life teams bend the rules and obtain passports when they maybe shouldnt, we cannot do that in the game.

Its ok lol he'll only be 18 when he joins you and probley better

Yeah, he gets 2 more years of 'seasoning' and you don't have to pay his wages during that time, but no one can get him away from you until he's on your roster.

Sign good 16 y/o's all the time and collect 2 years later.

Only a bad thing if you spent the transfer budget to get him and -needed- him lol.

Newgens are often born with dual nationallity in FM.

I could be wrong, but I think U18 Brazilians can move to Europe if it is to the country of their second nationality. In other words, Barcelona could take loads of Brazilian kids to Spain if they have Spanish as second nationality.

If they have a secondary EU nationality, they can move wherever they want in the EU, at whatever age they like. Nothing better than finding a Brazilian wonderkid with Italian or Spanish as a second nationality - you can pick them up dirt-cheap at 14.

If they have a secondary EU nationality, they can move wherever they want in the EU, at whatever age they like. Nothing better than finding a Brazilian wonderkid with Italian or Spanish as a second nationality - you can pick them up dirt-cheap at 14.

I don't think this is correct.

They certainly can't move to England with for example a Spanish second nationallity.

As far as I know they can only move to an EU country they have a passport for under the age of 18.

I would guess it's an attempt by the Brazilan FA to stop European clubs taking all their top teenage players.

Newgens are often born with dual nationallity in FM.

I could be wrong, but I think U18 Brazilians can move to Europe if it is to the country of their second nationality. In other words, Barcelona could take loads of Brazilian kids to Spain if they have Spanish as second nationality.

Except those currently at Barcelona youth teams IRL are not newgens since they were bought from elsewhere. This is the point where FM fails. Players can get dual nationality prior to joining a club, at least if the board and the player have agreed to this, something that has been brought up as a discussion numerous times within these forums and as yet has still not been dealt with.

I don't think this is correct.

They certainly can't move to England with for example a Spanish second nationallity.

As far as I know they can only move to an EU country they have a passport for under the age of 18.

I would guess it's an attempt by the Brazilan FA to stop European clubs taking all their top teenage players.

They can actually as they are EU nationals. Look at the Arsenal youth teams as an example of this.

Was it that U18 Brazilians can go to Portugal, so you can import them via that route? Or am I seeing things and generally having hallucinations?

They can actually as they are EU nationals. Look at the Arsenal youth teams as an example of this.

Could those players not have already been in Europe?

Try yourself to sign an U18 EU national Brazilian with Arsenal. Wasn't possible in FM10 until they turned 18.

Except those currently at Barcelona youth teams IRL are not newgens since they were bought from elsewhere. This is the point where FM fails. Players can get dual nationality prior to joining a club, at least if the board and the player have agreed to this, something that has been brought up as a discussion numerous times within these forums and as yet has still not been dealt with.

Would be difficult to implement in game though.

I imagine irl clubs look into a players background to see if he qualifies for EU citizenship, maybe through a parent or grandparent and accordingly apply.

Newgens don't have this kind of backgound for us to look into, so the game generates a certain amount of 2nd nationallites when creating newgens.

Very frustrating this. You sign great young talent and you can't train them up for a couple of years, you just have to hope that the club they are at do a good job. It's an extremely annoying English rule!

Could those players not have already been in Europe?

Try yourself to sign an U18 EU national Brazilian with Arsenal. Wasn't possible in FM10 until they turned 18.

No, the ones you're thinking of don't have dual nationality but needed to claim one hence they went to affiliate teams, examples of Carlos Vela and Pedro Botelho.

Very frustrating this. You sign great young talent and you can't train them up for a couple of years, you just have to hope that the club they are at do a good job. It's an extremely annoying English rule!

In game its not only an English rule, it applies everywhere within the EU. IRL you can send your coaches to help out with the training, of course this cant be done in-game.

No, the ones you're thinking of don't have dual nationality but needed to claim one hence they went to affiliate teams, examples of Carlos Vela and Pedro Botelho.

Ok were at cross purposes a bit. I understand your point about applying for work permits.

I was talking about signing Brazilian players under the age of 18 for European teams. It's not allowed unless to a country that he has a passport for.

Vela is Mexican so rule does not apply. Botelho was 18 when he signed for Arsenal and immediately loaned out to Salamanca in Spain because he could not get a work permit for England. (Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Roberto_Silva_Botelho)

Ok were at cross purposes a bit. I understand your point about applying for work permits.

I was talking about signing Brazilian players under the age of 18 for European teams. It's not allowed unless to a country that he has a passport for.

Vela is Mexican so rule does not apply. Botelho was 18 when he signed for Arsenal and immediately loaned out to Salamanca in Spain because he could not get a work permit for England. (Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Roberto_Silva_Botelho)

Botelho did not have dual nationality hence his loaning out. What I am saying is that many players acquire their nationality (EU) before they join a European club that happens IRL not in FM and I stilldon't see why not. If it did then the OP would have no problem with his signing as he could encourage the player to become a national with the promise of joining the club. In fact this option used to be available in a former edition of the game where you could encourage players to become nationals. Another mystery why it was removed.

As with Vela, rule does apply as a work permit would be required and he would not be eligible for one hence to loan out. This however is covered in-game.

When did Denilson join Arsenal? He was younger than 18 and Brazilian. If he gained dual nationality then it was before he signed and fits into my point as he hasn't resided anywhere else.

It's a FIFA rule that players under the age of 18 cannot sign for a team that's outside their country of residence:

20 VI. INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS INVOLVING MINORS

19 Protection of minors

1. International transfers of players are only permitted if the player is over the

age of 18.

2. The following three exceptions to this rule apply:

a) The player’s parents move to the country in which the new club is

located for reasons not linked to football.

b) The transfer takes place within the territory of the European Union

(EU) or European Economic Area (EEA) and the player is aged between

16 and 18. In this case, the new club must fulfi l the following minimum

obligations:

i. It shall provide the player with an adequate football education and/

or training in line with the highest national standards.

ii. It shall guarantee the player an academic and/or school and/or

vocational education and/or training, in addition to his football

education and/or training, which will allow the player to pursue

a career other than football should he cease playing professional

football.

iii. It shall make all necessary arrangements to ensure that

the player is looked after in the best possible way (optimum

living standards with a host family or in club accommodation,

appointment of a mentor at the club, etc.).

iv. It shall, on registration of such a player, provide the

relevant association with proof that it is complying with the

aforementioned obligations.

c) The player lives no further than 50km from a national border and the

club with which the player wishes to be registered in the neighbouring

association is also within 50km of that border. The maximum distance

between the player’s domicile and the club’s headquarters shall be 100km.

In such cases, the player must continue to live at home and the two

associations concerned must give their explicit consent.

3. The conditions of this article shall also apply to any player who has never

previously been registered with a club and is not a national of the country in

which he wishes to be registered for the first time.

Page 20 of this PDF

And it's country of residence that matters, rather than nationality. A 16 year old Brazilian resident in say Spain, because his parents moved there for work, would be able to sign for a Spanish club, but not a Brazilian one, even though they're Brazilian, as signing for a Brazilian club would mean uprooting from Spain and moving thousands of miles away from his guardians.

i often sign 15 and 16 year olds from brazil and wait for them to join me. its a bit of a lottery tho like with all kids. they can show promise but when they reach 18 are hopeless or you could get a youngster for a bargain price

It's a FIFA rule that players under the age of 18 cannot sign for a team that's outside their country of residence:

And it's country of residence that matters, rather than nationality. A 16 year old Brazilian resident in say Spain, because his parents moved there for work, would be able to sign for a Spanish club, but not a Brazilian one, even though they're Brazilian, as signing for a Brazilian club would mean uprooting from Spain and moving thousands of miles away from his guardians.

Point 2 of that pdf states that a player can move along with his parents and therefore do so from age 16. This is not apparent in-game but happens all the time IRL which is how the players end up with dual nationality and home grown status.

Its also worth mentioning that the guardians/parents could move with the player and not the player on his own. They could claim work reasons for such a move and not break any rules. What I am attaining to however is that some players have dual nationality having never lived in the country of nationality. You see this in Italy, Spain and Portugal all the time and yet its not in-game.

The U18 thing for Brazil is a rule to protect Brazilian talent, not an "English rule".

6 composure

Botelho did not have dual nationality hence his loaning out. What I am saying is that many players acquire their nationality (EU) before they join a European club that happens IRL not in FM and I stilldon't see why not. If it did then the OP would have no problem with his signing as he could encourage the player to become a national with the promise of joining the club. In fact this option used to be available in a former edition of the game where you could encourage players to become nationals. Another mystery why it was removed.

As with Vela, rule does apply as a work permit would be required and he would not be eligible for one hence to loan out. This however is covered in-game

Everything you say is correct, I fully understand how work permits work. I know thats why he was loaned out.

I get your point about encouraging young players to take up a dual nationallity, but I cannot see how it could be implemented in game. In their profile should it say 'possiblity of Spanish nationallity but must apply'. Ok but I see at as unnecceasry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den%C3%ADlson_Pereira_Neves

Denilson was 18 when he joined Arsenal.

You said earlier that in FM U18 Brazilian players can be signed by any European club once they have an EU nationallity. They can't.

The U18 thing for Brazil is a rule to protect Brazilian talent, not an "English rule".

Don't think anybody said it was an 'English rule'.

Makes sense that they want to protect Brazilian talent.

Man Utd had to wait until the da Silva twins turned 18, even though the deal was done a few years before

Point 2 of that pdf states that a player can move along with his parents and therefore do so from age 16. This is not apparent in-game but happens all the time IRL which is how the players end up with dual nationality and home grown status.

Its also worth mentioning that the guardians/parents could move with the player and not the player on his own. They could claim work reasons for such a move and not break any rules. What I am attaining to however is that some players have dual nationality having never lived in the country of nationality. You see this in Italy, Spain and Portugal all the time and yet its not in-game.

That can be from parents/grandparents.

Very frustrating this. You sign great young talent and you can't train them up for a couple of years, you just have to hope that the club they are at do a good job. It's an extremely annoying English rule!

^

(for Dar2000)

^

(for Dar2000)

Sorry mate didn't spot that.

You of course are right, it is not only an English rule, but set by the Brazilian FA to protect big European clubs poaching youngsters

I have dual nationality due to parentage. one parent was born in Ireland, the other was born in England, I therefore have dual British/Irish nationality. I don't have to have lived in either country to obtain that, it's an automatic right. I could, feasibly, have a third nationality had I had the same parents but been born/raised in yet another country, e.g. Spain.

Moving to another country for reasons not related to football would, I assume, be thoroughly checked out by FIFA should a 'superstar' footballer suddenly appear in someone's first team that wouldn't normally be allowed to play for them so the 'parents could say they moved for work' argument wouldn't hold water (I don't think).

What about Messi? He moved to Barca when he was like 11 or 12. in FM you can't sign Argentinians until they're 18.

In FM, you can't genetically alter them until they grow more, either

What about Messi? He moved to Barca when he was like 11 or 12. in FM you can't sign Argentinians until they're 18.

Messi had Italian ancestry, he had relatives in Catalonia, and his family moved to Spain to seek treatment for his growth hormone deficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

I know about Messi's condition, but are you saying that any South American with an EU nation as a second nationality can move to Europe before the age of 18? I don't think this works on FM, the dual nationality only helps to bypass the need for a work permit.