Argh! The new patch has ruined my team!

While playing on 11.1.1 I had a good 4-4-2 going on and after scoring 10 goals in 2 pre-season games against simillar rep sides I was confident going into the season that I would not be in another relegation battle.

Then I patched up.

In my remaing 2 friendlies, I drew 3-3, and 1-1(against my u18s).

Shipped 13 goals in the first 8 games, only winning 2.

Is this normal? Nothing has changed.

Also, since the patch 2 'fixes' I noticed in the changelist were (not word for word):-

Stopped players playing needless balls when in no danger

Stopped the same player being singled out before a game.

Had noticed neither of these untill I put the patch on. Now my full-backs are playing random balls into the middle of the pitch when under no pressure, nor is there a player there

And I have had a manager single out one of my players in every single league game this year. Now that would be okay, if I werent predicted to finish 17th (in BSN) and as I said, it had happened before. In the previous 2 seasons, not one of my players had been singled out. Now its 8 in 8?

Strange things, any help as always would be appreciated

dan_lcfc

Sorry, I dont understand how that could help.

I had a perfectly good tactic 2 days ago. Now its turned to crap. is that supposed to happen? has it happened for other people?

if it is normal, then what is the point in playing the game when tactics that have been serving me reasonably well, become null and void? I've basically wasted 2 seasons, and 48hours of playing time, developing a tactic that could actually give me a push for the top and now its been blown to a million pieces?

its not the patch its just how it goes.

Thanks for your useful comment

You could try learning to play the game on a deeper level and learn how to make adjustments. Just because you have a "perfectly good tactic" for a few matches doesn't mean that should translate into non-stop domination.

I'm sure the match engine is slightly changed. I mean signing a new players changes the dynamic of your tactic moreso than a match engine tweak.

I've had tactics stop working for me, for no reason that I've been able to discern, and not just morale either. This is prior to the patch.

Management's a delightfully subtle thing, the best thing is to keep experimenting and keep changing things up.

You could try learning to play the game on a deeper level and learn how to make adjustments. Just because you have a "perfectly good tactic" for a few matches doesn't mean that should translate into non-stop domination.

I'm sure the match engine is slightly changed. I mean signing a new players changes the dynamic of your tactic moreso than a match engine tweak.

If you read my original post you would see that I have been battling relegation for 2 seasons and I have not once said that my tactic was an 'ubermagasuperwineverygame' tactic. I said it was perfectly good. Meaning it has picked up results for a whole season and the 2 games into pre-season, which again, if you head read the original post, you'd have known.

and i know 'how to play the game deeper' thank you very much.

Interestingly, I've had quite the opposite in pre-season. A couple of narrow wins, a defeat pre-patch, then two thumping wins against superior opponents post-patch. I'm using a simple 4-4-2 made via the tactics creator.

Now all that's really changed that's helped those results, has been some signings that got to play in those last two matches, which suit their roles really well and have boosted the overall quality of my side.

In all fairness, I really don't think you can judge a patch based on a couple of pre-season friendly matches. A fairly sensible tactic, one that's not particular using extremes of slider settings, or anything that might have exploited what was considered a flaw in the pre-patched match engine, should work well enough whatever the patch.

Year on year, release upon release, patch upon patch, I've never had a tactic suddenly fail to perform as yet. Believe me, I'm not being facetious here. It's just when people suggest their tactics suddenly don't work, it's usually either they've been deliberately or inadvertently using something that exploited flaws in the match engine, which have since been fixed, or have been doing other things differently that have nothing to do with pre or post patch performance.

Just because the tactic worked against the two other teams of similar reputation doesn't mean it will work against every other team. I generally find on this game that your reputation rises slower than the ability of your squad, so you can have a significantly better team than another with similar reputation so it skews the results. Perhaps the opponents you've played in the first few games of this season have tactics that make it difficult to win with 4-4-2. Perhaps your opponent's manager has given particularly good team talks, perhaps yours haven't worked as well as expected. There could be any number of reasons that you didn't win in those games, so don't simply come to the conclusion that it was the patch.

The great thing about this game is that it can be unpredictable. That's the fantastic thing about football. If you just had one tactic, even if it's not an 'uvermagasuperwineverygame' tactic, that was "perfectly good" and that you didn't have to change and you could just grind out results it would be boring. Look at what's happened to chelsea IRL. They haven't changed their tactics, but they still have had a very worrying drop in form. These things happen, and complaining about the match engine just makes you seem like a sore loser.

Interestingly, I've had quite the opposite in pre-season. A couple of narrow wins, a defeat pre-patch, then two thumping wins against superior opponents post-patch. I'm using a simple 4-4-2 made via the tactics creator.

Now all that's really changed that's helped those results, has been some signings that got to play in those last two matches, which suit their roles really well and have boosted the overall quality of my side.

In all fairness, I really don't think you can judge a patch based on a couple of pre-season friendly matches. A fairly sensible tactic, one that's not particular using extremes of slider settings, or anything that might have exploited what was considered a flaw in the pre-patched match engine, should work well enough whatever the patch.

Year on year, release upon release, patch upon patch, I've never had a tactic suddenly fail to perform as yet. Believe me, I'm not being facetious here. It's just when people suggest their tactics suddenly don't work, it's usually either they've been deliberately or inadvertently using something that exploited flaws in the match engine, which have since been fixed, or have been doing other things differently that have nothing to do with pre or post patch performance.

Thats very intersting, I read through your thread on managing in the lower leagues, which basically brought me to the tactic that i had pre-patch (it is not too dis-similar to yours, just a flat midfield and different roles) and I finally rounded off my team with the striker who is a goalscorer and could dominate the league, and he showed it with 4 goals in the 4-0 and 6-1 wins pre-patch. In the 12 games after the patch he has scored twice.

It could be that I inadvertantly 'exploited' something in the old ME, which was my initial question.

Looks like it could be back to the drawing board then

Just because the tactic worked against the two other teams of similar reputation doesn't mean it will work against every other team. I generally find on this game that your reputation rises slower than the ability of your squad, so you can have a significantly better team than another with similar reputation so it skews the results. Perhaps the opponents you've played in the first few games of this season have tactics that make it difficult to win with 4-4-2. Perhaps your opponent's manager has given particularly good team talks, perhaps yours haven't worked as well as expected. There could be any number of reasons that you didn't win in those games, so don't simply come to the conclusion that it was the patch.

The great thing about this game is that it can be unpredictable. That's the fantastic thing about football. If you just had one tactic, even if it's not an 'uvermagasuperwineverygame' tactic, that was "perfectly good" and that you didn't have to change and you could just grind out results it would be boring. Look at what's happened to chelsea IRL. They haven't changed their tactics, but they still have had a very worrying drop in form. These things happen, and complaining about the match engine just makes you seem like a sore loser.

Jesus wept.

Point out where I blamed the ME?

If I were a sore loser, would I have sat and watched my team lose for 2 straight seasons, barely staying in the playable divisions? No I didnt think so.

I've asked some reasonable questions and got only one significant answer

It could be that I inadvertantly 'exploited' something in the old ME, which was my initial question.

Looks like it could be back to the drawing board then

Exactly this, if you want my opinion. Very harsh but it does occasionally happen. Sorry... hard times...

Jesus wept.

Point out where I blamed the ME?

If I were a sore loser, would I have sat and watched my team lose for 2 straight seasons, barely staying in the playable divisions? No I didnt think so.

I've asked some reasonable questions and got only one significant answer

Maybe I misunderstood "Help! The new patch has ruined my team!"...

And I never said you were a sore loser, just that threads like this makes you seem like one. I have no idea whether you actually are one. But that's not the point. And I agree you've asked a perfectly reasonable question and I think I've given you a perfectly reasonable answer.

Exactly this, if you want my opinion. Very harsh but it does occasionally happen. Sorry... hard times...

Just curious, do you guys look at the tactics forum and the 'always win/usually win' tactics that certain ingenious people design, and work out how to counter them?

Not me, no - but as I don't code the game that's not too much of a problem... I guess the SI guys do but am not sure to be honest.

Thats very intersting, I read through your thread on managing in the lower leagues, which basically brought me to the tactic that i had pre-patch (it is not too dis-similar to yours, just a flat midfield and different roles) and I finally rounded off my team with the striker who is a goalscorer and could dominate the league, and he showed it with 4 goals in the 4-0 and 6-1 wins pre-patch. In the 12 games after the patch he has scored twice.

It could be that I inadvertantly 'exploited' something in the old ME, which was my initial question.

Looks like it could be back to the drawing board then

It's often quite easy to tinker with things tactically as you play through a save. I've often been guilty of it myself over the years. It's always worth keeping a backup of what you started out with tactically, or minor variations, in case things turn sour. Sometimes for example, you might get a few great results with one lot of settings, that just falls flat or hits a wall against another opponent, who might be using settings or a system that's completely different to the other opponents you gave a drubbing to. It's also quite easy to tinker with things so much, you become quite removed from what you started with.

Particularly regarding ME changes though, like I mentioned earlier, over the years I think I can be fairly accurate when I say that flaw exploiting tactics, or aspects of a tactics reliant on exploiting a flaw, usually always fell foul of patches in many aspects. Don't forget, that as well as bug reports and their own tests, the developers will be looking out for things that shouldn't be... and how much more of a beacon to a flaw could you wish for, than some of the tactics over the years that have pinpointed ME flaws, then exploited them with aplomb. It's only right that the developers will look to remedy such flaws.

Corner exploits have long been a problem, thus you have a different system for set plays this year. There was a whole thread in T&TT for FM10 about the infamous "edge of box lurker" corner exploit. Some clamoured to use it, some wanted the thread closed. I'm all for people playing the game however they choose to, but there's no doubt that the developers would have been watching with interest and clearly looking at ways to prevent such flaws appearing so obviously again. That's one of the reasons I preferred to leave the thread open.

If you read my original post you would see that I have been battling relegation for 2 seasons and I have not once said that my tactic was an 'ubermagasuperwineverygame' tactic. I said it was perfectly good. Meaning it has picked up results for a whole season and the 2 games into pre-season, which again, if you head read the original post, you'd have known.

and i know 'how to play the game deeper' thank you very much.

Not sure I can follow your logic here.

In your original post, you hint at relegation battles in the past. Any tactic you were using that left you in a relegation battle could be great (your players stink, but your tactic saves their butt), or could be ***** (you should have been mid-table or higher, but your tactics left you vulnerable). In any regard, you state that you had 2 good pre-season results, and follow this up after patch with two mediocre (at best) results.

This is a far cry from the concept that you had a tactic that had served you well for a full season, AND the two friendlies.

Why would you think that a tactic that produces two good results is somehow a quality tactic that will work in all situations? Surely you've played the game enough to realize that small sample sizes cannot be used to be confident of tactics, especially when it comes to pre-season games. Did your opponents in the first two games play their #1 players? Had they had a chance to get up to speed after the break? Did your own players get over-confident, having done so well in the first two games, and become complacent? etc., etc., etc.

It's possible you were exploiting some aspect of how the AI played pre-11.2 patch, but I'd be wary of saying that this was the case without a considerably larger supply of comparison events to judge by.

I have to say... since I've been playing 11.2.1 the ME does look worse in general.

There is FAR more sloppy play, most of it based on balls just bouncing off players they aren't paying any attention to the ball.

I have always found that my tactics work better in preseason. I can easily beat Liverpool's first team players 3-0 with Athletic Bilbao in preseason and almost always lose my first league game against Hercules 3-0.

I just assumed that there is a slightly different match engine for preseason, but I suppose it could be that the AI gives a "remind the players this is just a runout" speech in the presason, but once the league games start, the AI gives more serious tactical instructions.

You will notice that in Spain, for instance, if you schedule a friendly in the 2 weeks before the first league game, that the "remind the players this is just a runout" team talk is no longer available. So the coding of the game does seem to employ a difference between preseason and regular season.

It certainly happens; happened to me in '10, had a 4-3-3 based on a small, quick striker playing deep and breaking offside which killed in 10.2, changed to 10.3 and he couldn't score for toffee. Switched to a big guy (which made a lot more sense in terms of real football) and went back to kicking ass...

If you read my original post you would see that I have been battling relegation for 2 seasons and I have not once said that my tactic was an 'ubermagasuperwineverygame' tactic. I said it was perfectly good. Meaning it has picked up results for a whole season and the 2 games into pre-season, which again, if you head read the original post, you'd have known.

and i know 'how to play the game deeper' thank you very much.

if your tactic was perfectly good, you wouldn't be fighting relegation 2 years in a row. it seems to me nothing has changed, you're still battling religation

I always say to people who are struggling and dont know why - watch a whole match, and it will probably become clearer where your team is failing....sometimes it may be one or two areas that you can remedy to some degree.

Ugh... not chasing you around or anything Paul but I gotta say...

didn't have to watch a full match to know what the issue is... was plain as day when the D line that was dominating the league prior to the patch stopped looking like professionals and started looking like Sunday players. As I said, 11.1.1 was probably too easy and either defensive positioning was too strong or there was something funky with the 4-4-2. But it's one thing to concede and a totally other thing to have a striker stand right in the middle of penalty area with both CB's flanking him at least 10-12 yards away, one which CB has a 17 mark, and 13-14 (or better) in all his mentals, yet neither mark anyone and leave him standing there wide open. Or seeing a CB with his back to a cross, not paying any attention and not moving when the ball bounces off his back, still without reacting.

Maybe it's just the 3D being all fouled up by changes so it just looks stupid, but it's plain as day the something is not behaving in a good manner.

Most importantly for these forums, I'm not whining because my all star D sucks and I'm losing games. Because I'm still winning the matches, winning and losing doesn't matter when you just see silly actions in the ME. Things I didn't see prior to the patch, because if I had I wouldn't have been quiet about them, but I think you know that.

As I said maybe it's the 3D itself, but if not that means its the AI... whichever it is it's considerably worse then it was in 11.1.