Is this regen really Barca standard

3rd season signing for them and he has slotted straight in as a key player and they are top.

He looks pretty poor to me though. Certainly wouldn't get in my team. I can overlook some bad attributes but you can't lack marking, Positioning, Anticipation AND Jumping. Surely he should be all over the place for them. Especially at stopping crosses.

He doesn't anticipate what will happen, hes in the wrong position, he hasn't marked the man properly and even then he cant jump high enough to win the header.

Why do Barca want him?

LOL

Just noticed he has a cap for Brazil too.

Hes got an average rating of 7.18 so he must be doing ok

how many threads is this now sheva in last 7 days about 20 ??

Maybe their scouts overrated him. Use some tool to check his CA.

I don't think he's that bad actually - his attributes are clearly imbalanced though. There are short centre-backs in the world and attributes in the 12-13 range aren't bad by any means.

He's only 20 so marking and positioning aren't huge problems at his age.

10 jumping is frightening though, but it is sadly another reflection of the flawed regens.

It is very rare to see a regen striker under 21 with a finishing attribute of over 10.

Also is tackling 17 and marking 13 they can still go up over time

you could retrain him into a DM? He seems to have the attributes for that, although decisions is a bit low...

Love his name!

He's only 20 so marking and positioning aren't huge problems at his age.

But he was signed as a "key player" which means he should have the CA to play right away, not 3 years down the road.

Obviously they can improve. But I think he only has like half a star left of potetial, and they have put him straight into the first team anyway. He is obviously not terrible, but Barca want to be the biggest club in the world. You can't lack that many key stats.

If you compare him to the regen I have, he is a bit of a joke. Even my Regen is far from perfect, but at least it is only really concentration that is letting him down, and his other attributes are really excellent rather than just decent like Barcas guy.

How do you guys find such wonderful regens? Even the one in the OP is miles better than anything I've seen in FM11.

FM09 and FM10 created much better regens.

In FM10, I saw an American regen at Barca. Played 7 matches with the first team in his first season, 14 his second, then was released, and signed with some team just promoted to the BSS. Awful player.

I don't think he's that bad a player. Ok so he ain't the best in the air or positionally, but he's only 20 years old so his jumping could be improved two points which would make him capable in the air. Positionally he'll probably be able to get himself out of trouble because of his pace. As a CB on cover or as a more adventurous ball playing CB he'd be pretty useful, particularly with such good passing and first touch.

Good determination and workrate as well.

He could make a good DM if he was retrained.

So sure he's not a world-class CB but he's pretty good and only 20 years old so plenty of time to develop, particularly mentally as regards anticipation and positioning.

tbh he looks a bit like lucio

a lack of marking isn't too bad if you're sitting behind the defence wating to sweep up any through balls coming through, his speed/acceleration put testament to that

Ah but his name is amazing.

theres a reason why barca release players too.

however i would love this guy tbh. ur expectation are high

Ah but his name is amazing.

Hope he makes it past his 27th birthday...

He's still young, and his attributes are only substandard for a DC if you insist on using your DC's in a certain way. I play a 3 CB formation, he'd slot into my team quite happily and I'm confident he'd put in perfectly good performances as either of my 2 outside CB's, simply because he has good attributes in the areas required to be successful in that position in my formation. Also, I use a very subtle variation of my base tactic which involves a CB stepping up into midfield, sometimes I like to switch to it mid-match and don't want to change the personnel to do so. With a bit of retraining he'd be a decent candidate for some use in that role, even though I don't think he'd become the first choice there.

Perhaps he's not the best alround 20 year old CB in the world, but that doesn't make him a bad player or mean he'd be a liability, you'd need to use him to his strengths rather than leave him to have his weaknesses exposed.

Whether he's particularly suited to Barca is a different matter, and perhaps you have a legitimate point there. However, if they went out looking for a young CB, were intent on signing one, and he was the best readily available, then I don't think he's quite so bad that they'd run away crying into their Cornflakes.

He might also be played as a wing back for which his attributes are more suited. I have a player that is labeled as DC yet is natural DL too.

Also look at the Passing attribute- At 17 on a 20 year old DC, this would have been a huge reason for buying him. Barcelona's DCs must be good distributors of the ball because they are depended on to start attacks. I'd say this guy is a perfect youngster for Barca, and frankly I'm amazed that the tendency for them to sign good passing DCs (eg. Chygrynskiy) has been reflected by the AI, albeit probably coincidental.

Not being able to jump didn't cause Puyol any harm.

Jeez he's only 20.

If Brazil even capped him he must be decent...those highlighted attributes aren't horrible by any stretch. I would play him on my first team every game!

There have been quite a few dodgy players ply thier trade at barca over the years, I think this guys pace is more important than his jumping as barca play such a high defensive line. If he was 6 foot somthing i would say his jumping could increase but looks like he is doomed to be a mighty mouse.

Love his name!

These regens, come as they are....

Absolutely fine for the Spanish league, his pace makes up for his deficiencies.

Karim Bah, on the other hand, is unrealistically well-rounded for a 21yo defender. Far better than any 21yo regen CB should be on the game.

Obviously they can improve. But I think he only has like half a star left of potetial, and they have put him straight into the first team anyway. He is obviously not terrible, but Barca want to be the biggest club in the world. You can't lack that many key stats.

If you compare him to the regen I have, he is a bit of a joke. Even my Regen is far from perfect, but at least it is only really concentration that is letting him down, and his other attributes are really excellent rather than just decent like Barcas guy.

Far from perfect????

what on earth do you look for in a 21 year old defender? this guy is brilliant for god's sake!

10 characters

He's not *THAT* bad, come on...

Also, not every youngster who comes through Barça's academy must or will turn into the new Messi or Puyol... They've had their fair share of "just ok" or even "below average" guys.

And this guy is more a victim of the "random attributes syndrome" most FM regens suffers from. Basically he looks like more a playmaker with the pace of a winger who has been randomly trained as centreback instead.

But at least his role-defining attributes aren't abysmal and I'm sure even at a Top Club he can be a useful player.

Unfortunately such odd attributes distribution is much more annoying and harmful at lower level, where the lack of balance and the presence of superfluous skills will make them useless

His physical attributes are actually almost identical to Puyol, his technical attributes are better, and his mental attributes are worse (natural since he's young). I can't see why he wouldn't turn out to be better than Puyol in a few years time.

You know how the game works, right? AI teams buy players based on CA, not on any logical deeper look at their attributes. Then if you don't have the spanish league running on full detail (which only happens if you're playing in Spain or had set it on full detail on purpose through the "detail level" screen), his average rating and all other stats would be mostly irrelevant, they're calculated mostly on CA or at least not on the same way they would be if he played for your team.

could have a fairly strong left foot as well..

You know how the game works, right? AI teams buy players based on CA, not on any logical deeper look at their attributes. Then if you don't have the spanish league running on full detail (which only happens if you're playing in Spain or had set it on full detail on purpose through the "detail level" screen), his average rating and all other stats would be mostly irrelevant, they're calculated mostly on CA or at least not on the same way they would be if he played for your team.

This.

Also can't believe it took 30 posts before it was pointed out.

Far from perfect????

what on earth do you look for in a 21 year old defender? this guy is brilliant for god's sake!

low flair

These regens, come as they are....

...and they smell like teen spirit.

What's wrong with this player? Doesn't matter how bad his anticipation / positioning is... his pace will get him in the right spot... I don't get this complaint at all. I would slot him into any of the top teams alongside with a really tall centerback and you get a nice balance...

Nothing wrong with that centreback at all. Some people expect players to be ready made. Hes actually not to dissimilar to Jonny Evans a couple of years back. and i should add that Rafael has similar problems with those stats and yet turns into a top class full back in FM11, defensively as well as offensively

I would slot him into my side, very good young ball playing defender, stick him alongside a vidic like CB, you have a great first ball, second ball partnership

Nevermind those problems, he's very good on the ball, which is arguably more important for a club like Barcelona who have loads of possession. When he's in bloom, he could be classy.

Karim Bah is a prime example of the bugs that still exist and the faults of the regen system.

For example, has anyone seen many 21 year old regen strikers have 19 for finishing, yet here a centre back does?

Also, in comparison to the real world, what CURRENT centre back has the same finishing as, say, Lionel Messi? Would love to hear.

A major flaw that should be addressed.

For me, the ideal centre back has 15+ for tackling, marking, positioning, anticipation, quickness, concentration. Then jumping andd heading shouldd be as high as possible. Cant under estimate how useful it is to have a guy whois unbeatable in the air.

Don't get me wrong. I love Karim Bah. He is a legend for me. 7 goals this season so far. Solid as they come. I'm just saying he is not actually absolutely perfect. His concentration is a bit of a worry, and he isn't terrific in the air because his strength and jumping aren't amazing. He is still easily in the top 2 centre backs on the game overall though.

This Nirvana guy though, he just lacks in too many areas for me. Pace doesnt seem to be very important for defenders anyway. I think Anticipation and positioning are way more important. Just look at John Terry.

I can't believe how picky some people are. Nirvana looks like a very good DC and at his age he'll certainly improve. Sure, he's not perfect, but that's what training and tutoring are for. I'd snap him up in a heartbeat if he appeared on my game and he'd probably slot straight into my Premiership-winning Boro side. Jumping is the only attribute I'd be really worried about. All the others highlighted are decent enough and can either be trained higher or compensated by other factors.

As for the weird distribution of attributes, I agree it's slightly worrying and an obvious artifact of the way the game weights attributes depending on position, but it doesn't bother me too much if a DC has 19 Finishing. In answer tot he question posed above, I have no idea what the Finishing of any current DC is - do you? I suspect the values given for current DCs in the database are guessed at anyway given how rarely they are in positions to utilise that attribute.

I just checked on a game I've got running here and the highest finishing rating for any U23 CB is 12, and that player is the only one who is rated higher than 10. That's not something to get concerned about in my opinion, one player with an outlying attribute is arguably more realistic than no players with an outlying attribute.

As for Nirvana, if some don't think he's good then until we start creating newgens with 20 for every attribute at the age of 16 we're probably still going to be disappointing people. Keep in mind that almost all those attributes highlighted above are affected by age and experience more-so than most attributes.

It's because the AI do things and play players entirely based off CA/PA and don't look at attributes. If you look at the boys attributes you can see he's clearly got a massive CA. That will also be why he has such a high average rating. I've seen it on older FM games. I think it was FM09 where Villa signed a Chinese regen CB with jumping 4. Yes, 4. He had a CA of like 180 and PA of 194 and was regarded as the best CB in the world by the AI. He performed fantastically for them in every game but ones I attended or games against me. I obviously stuck my massive target man on him and proceded to destroy them every time...

his Acceleration and Pace could make up for his poor positioning. There are plenty of defenders in top flight football who rely on their pace to get them into position. Not all defenders have to be that good at Marking, especially if your not asking them to mark someone.

It's because the AI do things and play players entirely based off CA/PA and don't look at attributes. If you look at the boys attributes you can see he's clearly got a massive CA. That will also be why he has such a high average rating. I've seen it on older FM games. I think it was FM09 where Villa signed a Chinese regen CB with jumping 4. Yes, 4. He had a CA of like 180 and PA of 194 and was regarded as the best CB in the world by the AI. He performed fantastically for them in every game but ones I attended or games against me. I obviously stuck my massive target man on him and proceded to destroy them every time...

I'm sure SI have stated that the AI do not see a players PA. i'm sure they've said they dont see CA either.

I just checked on a game I've got running here and the highest finishing rating for any U23 CB is 12, and that player is the only one who is rated higher than 10. That's not something to get concerned about in my opinion, one player with an outlying attribute is arguably more realistic than no players with an outlying attribute.

As for Nirvana, if some don't think he's good then until we start creating newgens with 20 for every attribute at the age of 16 we're probably still going to be disappointing people. Keep in mind that almost all those attributes highlighted above are affected by age and experience more-so than most attributes.

Do you not think Karim Bah is far too well-rounded for a 21-year-old centre back, given that - as you've mentioned - a lot of vital defensive attributes tend to develop in the mid-twenties IRL? I can't think of a 21yo CB in the starting database who even runs him vaguely close.

I can't believe how picky some people are. Nirvana looks like a very good DC and at his age he'll certainly improve.

He is crap and worse than many many CBs with lower CA from the original DB. But anyways..

I just checked on a game I've got running here and the highest finishing rating for any U23 CB is 12, and that player is the only one who is rated higher than 10. That's not something to get concerned about in my opinion, one player with an outlying attribute is arguably more realistic than no players with an outlying attribute.

As for Nirvana, if some don't think he's good then until we start creating newgens with 20 for every attribute at the age of 16 we're probably still going to be disappointing people. Keep in mind that almost all those attributes highlighted above are affected by age and experience more-so than most attributes.

What happened to the whole "Newgens' stats will be based on the players from the original db" thing? Because in my experience they don't look anything like it. Actually I'm yet to find an actually good creative midfielder... :|

Btw I'm talking about newgens from the playable leagues. The ones from leagues not selected as playable usually have better distribution and some look like beasts...

So his marking and positioning aren't "world class" level which I deem as 15+ but that shouldn't make him a terrible choice. For example, his hidden attributes like consistency might be really good, so you know.

I remember in an old FM of mine, this young newgen called David Thorpe. His only +16 stat was determination and influence. He was, otherwise, a very average defender. I'd play him a bit and was then forced to keep playing him because his performances were just that damn good. He did so well, he ended up getting called up to England (when there were better options, attribute wise). And still, throughout the years he rarely, if EVER, had a bad game so much so this academy boy became my club captain and not only that, he earned himself the England captaincy and winning World Defender awards!

Of course, this was in FM06. I've yet to experience something like this in the more recent versions. Of course, with OP's example, I hope this ends up the case with FM11. Because seeing players selected and rewarded based on MERIT and PERFORMANCES rather than purely because they have a high CA is a most welcoming thing.

He is crap and worse than many many CBs with lower CA from the original DB. But anyways..

You lose any credibility for saying such a ridiculous thing. He's far from "crap"

He'd get in my Farnborough team lol

He is crap and worse than many many CBs with lower CA from the original DB. But anyways..

He's in no way "crap". He is lacking in a couple of areas. But he's only 20 and, with his Passing, Technique and First Touch, would make an excellent ball-playing DC alongside a more robust partner. I'd happily pay £10m or more to take him into my team and get him tutored while adding in some specific training to improve his Jumping and Positioning. Marking at 13 doesn't bother me too much given his other attributes.