Non-eu thing: not a bug so I post here

Let's take a team that has strictly restricted non-eu rules such as an italian team (forget about the broken non-eu rule implemented in the game).

This means one non-eu allowed from abroad per season.

Assume that I have detected an interesting (to me) player.

Carini, uruguaian GK, free agent: this means that he'll use the non-eu slot.

But looking at his profile I see that he can gain spain nationality if he lives in Spain or the italian one if he lives in Italy.

This is a perfect chance to test a possibly missing feature and a bad behaviour of the game .

I offer a contract to him, he accepts and I sign him. Guess what?

He uses the non-eu slot and after 2 months he gains italian nationality.

Not a smart thing, not a bug, just a hole: a player that can gain a eu second nationality should do it as soon as he can, in this example before the sign, even if he's not playing/living in that particular league.

Let's take a team that has strictly restricted non-eu rules such as an italian team (forget about the broken non-eu rule implemented in the game).

This means one non-eu allowed from abroad per season.

Assume that I have detected an interesting (to me) player.

Carini, uruguaian GK, free agent: this means that he'll use the non-eu slot.

But looking at his profile I see that he can gain spain nationality if he lives in Spain or the italian one if he lives in Italy.

This is a perfect chance to test a possibly missing feature and a bad behaviour of the game .

I offer a contract to him, he accepts and I sign him. Guess what?

He uses the non-eu slot and after 2 months he gains italian nationality.

Not a smart thing, not a bug, just a hole: a player that can gain a eu second nationality should do it as soon as he can, even if he's not playing/living in that particular league.

I disagree. However you can always take him on a trial and wait until he gain the italian nationality.

I disagree. However you can always take him on a trial and wait until he gain the italian nationality.

mmm interesting, but it can take some month to get the nationality anyway, plus I can't use the player in official games.

I agree with your logic on all acounts. IRL players get the nationality before they sign, at least Argentinian players seem to do this and need I say some Brazilian players. How else can these players sign for Spanish and Italian teams without ever having resided there?

Players like Leo Franco who has Italian nationality but has never lived in Italy are the best example.

I agree with your logic on all acounts. IRL players get the nationality before they sign, at least Argentinian players seem to do this and need I say some Brazilian players. How else can these players sign for Spanish and Italian teams without ever having resided there?

Players like Leo Franco who has Italian nationality but has never lived in Italy are the best example.

family members may be italian and therefor he qualifies i think.

family members may be italian and therefor he qualifies i think.

And I think there should therefore be an option to "investigate player ancestry" or something similar, especially for young players, which may allow some random players to gain a European citizenship just prior to signing for their new club.

Another suggestion I'd love to see implemented is a language course, because it's very frustrating having a player unable to get citizenship simply because he hasn't picked up the language yet. How about we have an option to send the player for intensive language lessons, perhaps at a small monetary and training loss?

And I think there should therefore be an option to "investigate player ancestry" or something similar, especially for young players, which may allow some random players to gain a European citizenship just prior to signing for their new club.

hmm.... well I prefer having as it is now where 16 yrs old regen have already Italian or others as second nationality.

My OP refers to players that can get second nationality as consequence of playing in a league, I put Carini as an example.

I agree with your logic on all acounts. IRL players get the nationality before they sign, at least Argentinian players seem to do this and need I say some Brazilian players. How else can these players sign for Spanish and Italian teams without ever having resided there?

Players like Leo Franco who has Italian nationality but has never lived in Italy are the best example.

There was a bit of a scandal a while ago (I think was around 01/02) where players were being investigated for having fake EU passports just so that they could play in Europe.

I don't think it's as easy as it seems. I don't think that, legally, you can just get a European passport as and when you wish.

If it was that easy everyone would have done it. I would have done it myself.

There was a bit of a scandal a while ago (I think was around 01/02) where players were being investigated for having fake EU passports just so that they could play in Europe.

I don't think it's as easy as it seems. I don't think that, legally, you can just get a European passport as and when you wish.

If it was that easy everyone would have done it. I would have done it myself.

Don't want to sound cynical but in the last few years the amount of people gaining British citizenship and not being able to speak English is extremely high. It seems to be a case of having a family member in England and they all head over and within a few years they are all British. I think the same is happening in Spain and France because government measures at least in France seem to suggest that most French people do not speak French. According to the President at least.

So I think it is easy depending on who you are or who you are related to.

Don't want to sound cynical but in the last few years the amount of people gaining British citizenship and not being able to speak English is extremely high.

At the moment its not a requirement of british citizenship to speak english (there was talk of this changing) however in other countries it is a requirement and you have to sit a test. In america you did (or might still do im not sure) have to take a test of american history and culture before being granted citizenship.

Don't want to sound cynical but in the last few years the amount of people gaining British citizenship and not being able to speak English is extremely high. It seems to be a case of having a family member in England and they all head over and within a few years they are all British. I think the same is happening in Spain and France because government measures at least in France seem to suggest that most French people do not speak French. According to the President at least.

So I think it is easy depending on who you are or who you are related to.

Damn.

If it was as easy as you said I would have actually applied to gone to the UK.

Instead I applied to go to Australia.

Nice discussion, but you're going far away from the point. I'm talking of players that in the game have all the requirements to get the nationality but for unknown reason they don't make the final step. What is the reason of having the feature of gaining second nationality if I have to sign it first as non-eu?

Nice discussion, but you're going far away from the point. I'm talking of players that in the game have all the requirements to get the nationality but for unknown reason they don't make the final step. What is the reason of having the feature of gaining second nationality if I have to sign it first as non-eu?

It's more a political thing I believe. I don't know about the UK, but I really still think you can't just get an EU passport just like that, as and when you want it.

To put it in your context, a South American player, who may have lived in an EU country before but left, might not see a reason to get EU nationality if he's not even sure if he's going back to play in the EU.

Only once he has signed on with a club (which guarantees him a job in the EU, so to speak), might the application process of the extra passport be processed.

Footballers can easily get an EU passport when it's convenient for them and for their new club...

Pretty much ANY South American can claim to have an Italian/Spanish/Portuguese ancestor, so it's not really difficult getting the dual citizenship. Even easier when football is involved and clubs are willing to grease some palms...

Footballers can easily get an EU passport when it's convenient for them and for their new club...

Pretty much ANY South American can claim to have an Italian/Spanish/Portuguese ancestor, so it's not really difficult getting the dual citizenship. Even easier when football is involved and clubs are willing to grease some palms...

Anything is possible illegally. But FM is not in the business of illegal business, is it?

Anything is possible illegally. But FM is not in the business of illegal business, is it?

I don't think it's illegal. It appears that is some countries to gain EU nationality you simply have to claim ancestry. In the case of Britain this should prove interesting as they pretty much ruled the world via the Empire so that must be millions of people able to claim ancestry!

Interestingly, language, culture and liking the country you wish to belong to doesn't seem to be a criteria, even for footballers.

As far as I know you have to be both working and living in the country to be eligible for citizenship.

As for using a non eu slot the AI doesn't (at least in my game) pick very good choices. Wouldn't you expect the non EU player to be one of the best players in the team? mainly in my game they are average at best.

As far as I know you have to be both working and living in the country to be eligible for citizenship.

As for using a non eu slot the AI doesn't (at least in my game) pick very good choices. Wouldn't you expect the non EU player to be one of the best players in the team? mainly in my game they are average at best.

I think the problem here is "citizenship" and nationality. They are not the same thing. A player (to use FM example) can gain EU nationality yet not be living in that EU country simply because of ancestry or something similar.

The eu is one big bug

I think that at least there should be a option, if you want to wait untill a player gains nationality so that you don't use your non-EU slot then you should be able to do it, Fabian Carini sounds like he has both spanish and italian ancestry and under the laws and rules in those countries he is eligible to citizenship even if he never went to work and live in those countries. That would be an FM addition thats adds more realism.

anyway this nationality/etnicity thing is a really stupid thing, its a made up category just for dividng people, the world belongs to everybody and all people should have the right to move whereever they want in the world

Anything is possible illegally. But FM is not in the business of illegal business, is it?

It isn't, but to be sort of fair also most of the dual nationalities handed to South Americans aren't illegal de jure.

It's just that the practice is so widespread and oversimplified it still can be regarded as dodgy. Can you believe Cicinho, Camoranesi, Paulo Cesar, Renan and even Gabriela Sabatini (!) got their Italian passport in the same small town?!

But keeping in mind getting an EU passport is relatively easy, I think FM should reflect that (debatable) aspect of football too...

I'm not saying we should have a "apply for dodgy EU passport" button while signing a non-EU player, but just like thw Work Permit in some leagues, there should be a good % of players who indeed are eligible to get an EU passport before being signed.

anyway this nationality/etnicity thing is a really stupid thing, its a made up category just for dividng people, the world belongs to everybody and all people should have the right to move whereever they want in the world

I wish I could agree with you on that, but sadly it isn't so.

anyway this nationality/etnicity thing is a really stupid thing, its a made up category just for dividng people, the world belongs to everybody and all people should have the right to move whereever they want in the world

I would only agree with this if those moving lived out of their own means and not expecting others to pay for them as is the present case. If by moving you were allowed to do your own thing and pay your own way then its a great idea. Unfortunately some people so nothing and expect to be paid for it while others earn far more than they're worth.

I think that at least there should be a option, if you want to wait untill a player gains nationality so that you don't use your non-EU slot then you should be able to do it, Fabian Carini sounds like he has both spanish and italian ancestry and under the laws and rules in those countries he is eligible to citizenship even if he never went to work and live in those countries. That would be an FM addition thats adds more realism.

no wait, in FM Carini has enough days already spent in Spain and Italy to gain the related nationality, if I remember right it doesn't have to do with native grandfathers or things like that.

The fact that he's free agent makes this thing useless, as you are forced to sign it as non-eu which is a stupid thing.

Right, lot of people getting this wrong so I'll clarify.

Carini, needs to RESIDE in Italy before he can become a national. You can't be on holiday in Italy, rock up at the passport office and ask for an Italian passport (the actual thing that would make him EU).

He would need a bank account, permanent address and a job BEFORE he can apply for a passport.

So this is correct, he signed as a non EU player. Later, once he can apply for an Italian passport he does.

What's the problem?

Right, lot of people getting this wrong so I'll clarify.

Carini, needs to RESIDE in Italy before he can become a national. You can't be on holiday in Italy, rock up at the passport office and ask for an Italian passport (the actual thing that would make him EU).

He would need a bank account, permanent address and a job BEFORE he can apply for a passport.

So this is correct, he signed as a non EU player. Later, once he can apply for an Italian passport he does.

What's the problem?

I think you're mixing up "citizenship" and "nationality"

There's PLENTY of South American players who got signed as EU-players thanks to pre-arranged Italian papers, despite them not having been in Italy for a single minute in their whole life.

All the rules you listed apply for becoming italian citizen, but to obtain (dual) nationality, especially for sporting purposes, they just need to prove they have italian ancestors (real or fakes ones, it's the same)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law

Catania have signed NINE players with Itaian nationality over the last couple of years [plus 2 with Spanish], and I'm pretty sure none of them fulfills the requirements to apply for a regular passport.

P.S. according to Transfernarkt, Carini has ALREADY Italian nationality anyway, so he shouldn't count as non-EU signing anyway.

I think you're mixing up "citizenship" and "nationality"

There's PLENTY of South American players who got signed as EU-players thanks to pre-arranged Italian papers, despite them not having been in Italy for a single minute in their whole life.

All the rules you listed apply for becoming italian citizen, but to obtain (dual) nationality, especially for sporting purposes, they just need to prove they have italian ancestors (real or fakes ones, it's the same)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law

Catania have signed NINE players with Itaian nationality over the last couple of years [plus 2 with Spanish], and I'm pretty sure none of them fulfills the requirements to apply for a regular passport.

P.S. according to Transfernarkt, Carini has ALREADY Italian nationality anyway, so he shouldn't count as non-EU signing anyway.

That's kinda silly if true.

Most of the world can claim British nationality in that case thanks to the British Empire.

That's kinda silly if true.

Most of the world can claim British nationality in that case thanks to the British Empire.

No, you can't claim nationality, the Italian way, unless you can prove your grandparents (and beyond) were British-born who emigrated to some part of the Empire...

There are indeed more special requirements to fulfill, but being footballers a very sui generis category of workers, the paperwork are often handled in a more relaxed way.

Right, lot of people getting this wrong so I'll clarify.

Carini, needs to RESIDE in Italy before he can become a national. You can't be on holiday in Italy, rock up at the passport office and ask for an Italian passport (the actual thing that would make him EU).

He would need a bank account, permanent address and a job BEFORE he can apply for a passport.

So this is correct, he signed as a non EU player. Later, once he can apply for an Italian passport he does.

What's the problem?

That he can get all those things BEFORE signing with my team.

Lazio has waited for Carrizo to get Italian nationality BEFORE signing him if remember right

The point is that football players on the highest level are truly appreciated by the governments, every state in the world would like workers with that amount of salary as that means they’ll pay a huge tax amount and why would not countries want those people coming to them?

That's why football players get citizenship so easy and there are also other ways to justify granting citizenship to footballers, most of the countries have a special rule for special people.

People with extraordinary talents, knowledge etc can gain citizenship on those grounds, that was the case for example with Cleó, the Brazilian striker who plays for Partizan Belgrade, because he truly has an extraordinary talent as there is no Serbian striker in the whole world that is on the level of Cleó.

This rule is applied to a higher extent in other fields then football. The Chinese government is giving Chinese citizenship to a lot of scientists and the EU has a special program for this, they give money to universities in the EU for hunting smart people from the poor countries in the world so that they will be smart in the EU and not in some other place in the world.

I would really want this citizenship rule to be more relaxed in FM, there should be an option to be able to wait that your player gains nationality, before you officially sign him

The point is that football players on the highest level are truly appreciated by the governments, every state in the world would like workers with that amount of salary as that means they’ll pay a huge tax amount and why would not countries want those people coming to them?

That's why football players get citizenship so easy and there are also other ways to justify granting citizenship to footballers, most of the countries have a special rule for special people.

People with extraordinary talents, knowledge etc can gain citizenship on those grounds, that was the case for example with Cleó, the Brazilian striker who plays for Partizan Belgrade, because he truly has an extraordinary talent as there is no Serbian striker in the whole world that is on the level of Cleó.

This rule is applied to a higher extent in other fields then football. The Chinese government is giving Chinese citizenship to a lot of scientists and the EU has a special program for this, they give money to universities in the EU for hunting smart people from the poor countries in the world so that they will be smart in the EU and not in some other place in the world.

I would really want this citizenship rule to be more relaxed in FM, there should be an option to be able to wait that your player gains nationality, before you officially sign him

Sorry, slightly off topic but relevant to your post. How can a footballer be classified as "smart"? I'm sure there are exceptions but the majority appear to be unable to tell what bedroom is theirs or when they're supposed to be at work.

Sorry, slightly off topic but relevant to your post. How can a footballer be classified as "smart"? I'm sure there are exceptions but the majority appear to be unable to tell what bedroom is theirs or when they're supposed to be at work.

That's not the point really.

Like it or not, footballers bring in money (through their performances on the field), so they're valued.

Another example: I'm in Italian Serie B, this means I cannot sign any non-eu player.

I can't sign Carini.