Match Engine/Realism Debate

Lets face it...At times we've all said in anger that Football Manager is unrealisitic.

However, I believe I have discovered the answers. The match engine is decent, but not brilliant by any means. The actual database of football manager however is extremely realistic. Therefore I believe the match engine isn't developed enough to deal with the realism. This means the match engine portrays the realistic bits of football manager, as unrealistic.

An example... a pacey cross comes in, and your keeper moves to his left as he believes it will come to him. However their players dives on to it, and the ball flies towards the net. Your keeper then doesn't however make an attempt to move to the other side to get to it.

This is a very realistic scenario, and happens many times in football. However the way in which it was shown in the match engine, makes it look unrealistic.

To sum up...Football manager is very realistic, and a quality game, however the match engine at times does not do it justice.

The issue perhaps is mainly that what's calculated "underneath" by the ME is good, but what's portrayed by the ME animations, isn't?

As Heathxxx mentioned above, it's not so much of an issue with the actual ME but more about the 3D view.. I remember few years back when we got the 3D view it was quite often mentioned that the 3D was basically just for looks but when making a tactical decision you should look at the match stats instead.

-SnUrF

Yeah I completely agree Heathxxx. Thats the point im trying to make

this is true, you have to remember that what the match engine is showing you isnt 100% accurate, it is only "representing" the events.

For example, quite often a keeper will dive on a ball and it will look to the user as if the ball is a good few yards out of play or the ball will seem to accelerate towards the keeper as he goes to claim it. It's just that the match engine and animations arent capable of showing what the ME knows is happening with complete accuracy.

Perhaps sega should team up with ea sports or konami to make the match engine.

There're loads of 'glitches' in the way the 3D view represents the ME. Numerous times I've seen the goalie dive across the byline or the goal line with the ball and the game just keeps on going like it was just another save. So as said earlier its just (more or less) for looks.

-SnUrF

E: walsh beat me to it

The issue perhaps is mainly that what's calculated "underneath" by the ME is good, but what's portrayed by the ME animations, isn't?

This could be part of the situation.. but also it's just the shear amount that has to be coded for the ME... so many variables to take into account and all.

I'm thinking that often how a match is portrayed is the biggest issues, obviously it what we see and when it shows us something totally stupid we are just amazed at it. But maybe how it's calculated was a fair concept of what happened. Fair enough to think that's the case.

But if the bits we're seeing don't give us an accurate representation of how our players are performing then how are we supposed to manage them?

Even seen a manager at any level blind fold himself in the club how and listen to the match over the radio to know what do with his players... if the visual representation can't communicate things to us accurately then there is an issue that needs to be fixed, regardless of how realistic the calculations might have been... since we can't see those calculations the Me feedback is the only way for us to know what is happening.

I hope 11.2 improve ME

Back to basics.. There are two things that need to be seperated, the ME and the 3D representation of it. If you only look at the 3D (as I do) then you're not actually aware what happens in the ME. As I stated earlier the truth lies in the stats (or atleast more so).

-SnUrF

Y'all are not wrong, but I thought I'd contribute an answer to the OP from leftfield. I just read and enjoyed this:

What makes [FM] feel real is that, within its insanely wide scope, it generates a weird, squabbly, unpredictable world, a world which — unlike in most video games — you have only a limited power to control. You tried pushing your wingers forward to steal a late goal, and the opposing left back shattered your guy's femur? See him in seven months. You want to sign a player, but his agent hates your personality? You are out of luck, forever. The story keeps unspooling and unspooling, and because none of it's scripted, and a lot of it doesn't even involve you, it seems to have its own rules and not to care very much how you feel about them.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/244233-Football-Manager-Article-From-Deadspin

Although I understand your point of the 3D not representing what's truly happening in the match engine, it doesn't explain why my defenders run like headless chickens whenever a cross comes in. I have my defender tight marking the lone striker, but instead of jostling for the ball against the striker in the air, he just waits for the ball where it's gonna land and lets the striker run up and head the ball before it reaches to the defender. The poor positioning is inexplicable even with a high positioning attribute.

Although I understand your point of the 3D not representing what's truly happening in the match engine, it doesn't explain why my defenders run like headless chickens whenever a cross comes in. I have my defender tight marking the lone striker, but instead of jostling for the ball against the striker in the air, he just waits for the ball where it's gonna land and lets the striker run up and head the ball before it reaches to the defender. The poor positioning is inexplicable even with a high positioning attribute.

Is it inexplicable? What's his composure, concentration, work rate, bravery and other relevant mental attributes?

Is it inexplicable? What's his composure, concentration, work rate, bravery and other relevant mental attributes?

Created a similar thread last time around. But the problem has been carried over in this version. Let me give you an example of Vlaar (central defender at Feyenoord) His composure, concentration, work rate, bravery, positioning, determination and off the ball are 14,16,15,14,14,17 and 11. But still he continues to walk towards the ball which is just a few yards away from him while the opposition attacker runs a lot faster, covering more than half a pitch and snatches the ball before him. I have players walking away from the ball and while this was a minor irritant last time around, this time whenever it happens, i tend to give away a goal (just did it against Spartak Moscow who scored in the 91st minute to win the Euro Cup tie)

Is it inexplicable? What's his composure, concentration, work rate, bravery and other relevant mental attributes?

They're all high enough for a world class defender. It happens to all defenders, from top to bottom divisions, both mine and AI's. If you remember FM 2010 in which defender actually jostles against the striker and makes it hard to score headers, this year the number of goals scored from striker's and winger's headers has skyrocketed.

It's even worse with the goalkeeper who either positions himself too deep in goal to catch a cross or doesn't move at all.