5th post in ten years: Please read SI

Dear SI

I Haven't posted much on the boards since it changed address years back. Maybe I haven't had much to complain about. But even though Football Manager is still my go-to game, and I play it more that I care to admit, I have to confess that the game have begun to feel like a waste of my time. It is still fun, no question about that. But it's beginning to feel like one of those heralded talents who never develop in to star players - something is lacking.

Here are some suggestions to how I think next years game will improve:

1) Please remove agents, press conferences and revamp player interaction

I love the general idea, but you guys aren't able to implement them in proper fashion. No matter how many questions and answers you come up with, it will still feel generic and counterintuitive. Its glaring that you, as a player, are unable to cover all aspects of player interaction. For example as it is now I am not able to tell a player that I will put him on sale because I have too many foreign players. It's a small detail, but whenever I am not able to interact with my team the way I want to, the game begin to feel restrictive.

I like the ability to talk to my players, but I hate the way I'm forced to do it. When I talk to a player it feels like a mini-game where I have to guess the right answer based on some hints hidden in his profile.

Remove the answer-game and implement a more intuitive way of interacting. I don't have the answer on this one, and maybe it's better to remove the feature all together.

Other games are able to make you care for the cast. Players should feel more like human beings. We should be able to see if they get married, have kids, how they spend their money etc. I'm not talking "Footbal Sims" here, but if you sprinkle a bit of personal details on the players you have come a long way.

Agents add nothing to the game, 'nuff said.

2) Bring back the adventure!

This one is my biggest pet peeve. I would love to be able to play a game where numbers and attributes take a back seat to feel and scouting.

Here is what I would like as an option, only an option, in the game: At the beginning of the game, remove all visible attributes of all players not in your team. When you scout or watch a player in action you will get certain hints - Just like when you get a scouting report. Don't show me the spreadsheet numbers, only the observed strenghts and weaknesses. The more you scout and follow a player, the more should be revealed - but not in static numbers. Only when the player have been in my team for a certain time (half a season maybe) his true attributes should be revealed. Implementing that feature would bring some of the magic back for me, but maybe I'm the only one?

By hiding the attributes and only gradually revealing them could work well with training. I would love to be able to see specific training exercises like "sprint the field", "one on ones", penalty shootouts", "Free kicks" etc. That way I would get a feel for my players acceleration, free kick attributes and so on. Basically it would make me feel more invested in the team and therefore the game.

3) Revamp the interface

It really bugs me that I am not able to right-click anywhere and get a corresponding batch of choices. For example I would love to be able to right-click on the pitch during a match to get options like "match statistics", "tactics", "skip game", "instant replay" etc. In the same match I would right-click a player or his name and get other sort of options like "work more", "play more aggressive", "player statistics" etc. The choices should be customizable.

The same goes for right-clickng other objects. Just make it more intuitive and less cumbersome.

Lastly, I use the program "StrokeIt" to make mouse gestures work in the game. That way, when i middle-click and go left I go back a screen, when i go up I advance a day and moving down gets me to my squad etc. Why on earth is that feature not in the game already? :-)

That's that. And if you read this at SI please respond. A simple "read" would more than suffice.

Kind regards

Rayban

PS: In my opinion you guys have perfected the match engine and match experience in a way I never thought possible ten years ago. I was actually one of those who opposed the thought of 2D-matches as I were certain you wouldnever make it seem realistic. I was baffled when I saw the result and have never looked back since.

Firstly congrats on not posting more than 5 times in 10 years, it must be some record.

Secondly, I don't fully agree with your view but that is my prerogative. You mention getting rid of agents and press conferences, I think they need revamping not getting rid off. If you dislike press conferences then do what we all do and simpyl hand control to your assistant. It is ironic however that the AI then believes your assistant is in charge of the team but I guess that is another possible "bug". As for interaction, yes it needs improving but that takes time and to be fair I have no idea what other games you compare FM to, this is not an RPG.

Your second point is simple to remedy simply select remove all attributes at the start of the game, your player attributes have to be known to you, they are after all, your players. In every job you are aware of the attributes of those you work with, more so if you're a manager, whatever the field.

As for your third view, I just dislike it. It would make the game too buggy and FM is not total war or COH or something similar. Not everyone is able to have a computer that can cope with such data or graphical abilities and I doubt that SI would like to alienate potential gamers of the franchise.

Also I like 3D, so that's something we agree with.

i like number 2. i think the scouting system is unrealistic at the moment, like seeing all attributes of 16,17 year olds.

Disagree with your first point. Agents add a lot to the game. The different personalities mean you have to judge and negotiate to get the best deal you can.

I like that in i've been able to get players down on what they want by upto a third of what they were originally asking. In the past this wouldn't have been possible and I can't remember many occassions if any when a player accepted less than what they originally wanted.

In terms of realism, it definitely makes the transfer system more realistic for me. It is the first year it has been put in so sure it will need tweaking in the future. But i'm more than happy with how it's running, it certainly gives the game another dimension as does being able to negotiate and chat to your players etc in real-time.

3) Revamp the interface

It really bugs me that I am not able to right-click anywhere and get a corresponding batch of choices. For example I would love to be able to right-click on the pitch during a match to get options like "match statistics", "tactics", "skip game", "instant replay" etc. In the same match I would right-click a player or his name and get other sort of options like "work more", "play more aggressive", "player statistics" etc. The choices should be customizable.

The same goes for right-clickng other objects. Just make it more intuitive and less cumbersome.

Lastly, I use the program "StrokeIt" to make mouse gestures work in the game. That way, when i middle-click and go left I go back a screen, when i go up I advance a day and moving down gets me to my squad etc. Why on earth is that feature not in the game already? :-)

I think you have made some very good observations above. Nice practical thinking.

So agents add nothing to the game, but a player having kids does? Not sure I agree with this.

I Agree the agents does nothing for the game experience, besides more grinding. I find myself just offering whatever they want, if I manage a decent club. So what is the counter perspective? I wont manage a lower league team be course of that.

Not having agents in the game is unrealistic!!!

The only thing about your scouting suggestion is that the scout pretty much say similar things about some players...I don't want it to become too much of a guessing game. Maybe a more detailed scouting report should be in the game first.

Well rancer890, I'm sure they would think twice before playing counterstrike, if they actually died. So define realistic.

Well rancer890, I'm sure they would think twice before playing counterstrike, if they actually died. So define realistic.

Sigh, shoulda put a safety wink to it too...

People demand realism yet say realistic features like agents shouldn't be in the game

Lately, there have been many many threads in GD that are either:

1) transfer bug

2) can't get a new bloody job bug

3) the game is too hard, too complicated

4) the game is too easy, so easy to win later on in the game

5) agents shouldn't be the game because they're so demanding and asking very high prices (which I agree to an extent)

6) did I say transfer bug yet?

Since this is about agents, I would just discuss about them.

The OP's argument about agents: Agents add nothing to the game

Now, consider this for a moment, are there agents in football? Are the best footballers represented by an agent. I won't discuss about their high demands or the fact that clubs don't pay agents (it's commission based. Agents represent players. It's illegal to pay agents directly - in North American sports anyways. Agents can only get 3% or 5% commission from player salaries)...but if implemented properly it would add a lot to the game.

They need to replace the player rating system. Or make it so the player rating is relative to what your Asst Manager has said it is. because its impossible that everyone in RL would agree on what the player rating for a game is. Like when I look in a player's history what makes it a 7.0 over a 6.5 etc? Skysports? Goal.com? It's all relative to the viewer.

I like the new agents but the problem again there is a major bug. And he transfer and player interaction bug is the most clear bugs of all. How no one noticed these bugs in beta is beyond me.

Without Agents the game can never be realistic.

They add realism to the game.

They are a good addition, and work well. Try giving the agent a higher fee and reducing the players wages - he will sell a bum deal to his client. You just haven't got used to the new feature yet.

Without Agents the game can never be realistic.

They add realism to the game.

They are a good addition, and work well. Try giving the agent a higher fee and reducing the players wages - he will sell a bum deal to his client. You just haven't got used to the new feature yet.

I find it very useful, I can get 5 years contracts for a small fee for the agent, I guess I love realism.

In theory its good but it doesnt work properly, you can offer a contract but then you dont have enough money. You withdraw from talks and sell someone, go back and try to negotiate with the new funds and they wont speak to you.

It doesnt make sense.

Now, consider this for a moment, are there agents in football? Are the best footballers represented by an agent. I won't discuss about their high demands or the fact that clubs don't pay agents (it's commission based. Agents represent players. It's illegal to pay agents directly - in North American sports anyways. Agents can only get 3% or 5% commission from player salaries)...but if implemented properly it would add a lot to the game.

Actually under FIFA rules the club can pay an agent, but only to 5% of the transfer value. Now the fact that agents on average (by FIFA's own reckoning, so probably an underestimate) get around 11% of the transfer value is another matter. What is illegal is the same agent representing both selling and buying clubs in the same deal.

Otherwise I do agree that agents fully implemented would be a very strong addition to the game. I also say that they currently are not too far off what they need to be to be complete. I think most of the anti-agent arguements boil down to "I have to pay more for players when negotiating a contract," which IMO is just a variation of "this makes the game harder, I don't want this."

In theory its good but it doesnt work properly, you can offer a contract but then you dont have enough money. You withdraw from talks and sell someone, go back and try to negotiate with the new funds and they wont speak to you.

It doesnt make sense.

I think it does actually as when you go into a negotiation with a player you are effectively saying that you have enough to take him on, and that you want to complete a deal. When in turn you find out you don't it is not unreasonalbe for the agent to say "screw this guy, doesn't have the money and he only did this to mess us". But there should be some sort of a mechanism where you can hack out a provisional deal of £X to be signed within Y weeks, depending on a player sale/injection of funds. But this sort of negotiation would be fraught with many other difficulties, e.g. it may not be binding on either party, and to make it so you may have to pay extra.

Now there is an area where you are often forced to cancel out of a deal, i.e. where you check the compensation on a young player not signed a full contract. This problem is caused by the fact that the compensation level is only available in the negotiation screen, when it should also be elsewhere, like the transfer screen, for clarity at least.

I'd like to see the option to turn off agents if you wish not to have them in the game. Same with press conferences or for the AI to be sorted with regards to Ass Man upsetting everyone during them.

Except for the Idea about being able to right-click on the Pitch and on player names to increase interaction during matches, which I though was excellent, everything else you suggested makes no sense whatsoever, The things that you think would improve the realism of the game are the ones which would actually destroy the realism the game already has. If only they could tweak the match-engine, Player interaction, training/tutoring and the transfer system, the game would be leaps ahead of all it's previous installments. I'm enjoying dealing with agents, and boosting my team morale using press conferences. I like being able to see a player attributes and judge if he's good enough to play for me, because I don't think the game's not engrossing enough. I think making it any more complicated would hamper the fun and take away the enjoyment many of us find in it.

I think we need to give this a chance until the 3rd patch is released, coz I think it would make this the best FM ever.

Maybe you've played too much FM for the past 10 yrs, maybe you should've paid more attention to how the Football world has evolved during that time, and I think SI have.

I agree with point 2 to an extrent, but not fully - we do know other players attributes, we have things like Match Of The Day, The Football League Show, Revistita La Liga... Jeff Stelling on Soccer Saturday telling us a players stats throughout the season and his career. We're not blind to every players attributes except our own squad, because through word of mouth and TV we watch and hear about these players a lot.

Totally agree with points 1 and 3. Well said that (quiet) man.

Actually under FIFA rules the club can pay an agent, but only to 5% of the transfer value. Now the fact that agents on average (by FIFA's own reckoning, so probably an underestimate) get around 11% of the transfer value is another matter. What is illegal is the same agent representing both selling and buying clubs in the same deal.

Otherwise I do agree that agents fully implemented would be a very strong addition to the game. I also say that they currently are not too far off what they need to be to be complete. I think most of the anti-agent arguements boil down to "I have to pay more for players when negotiating a contract," which IMO is just a variation of "this makes the game harder, I don't want this."

Cheers for the clarification. Still not sure whether MLS clubs pay their agents though. Most teams are in deep debt already and technically contracts are owned by the league?

The more I think about this, the more confusing it gets.

I'm guessing that US law will trump FIFA rules, and as they are more restrictive than FIFA's they should be all-right too. The whole situation though with agents is a mess, because a) FIFA won't implement their own rules (which also include an "officially acredited agents only" policy which is never enforced), and b) just like with the drugs or corruption investigations, they don't want anyone else poking around either. The more I think about it the more pathetic FIFA become.

I think it does actually as when you go into a negotiation with a player you are effectively saying that you have enough to take him on, and that you want to complete a deal. When in turn you find out you don't it is not unreasonalbe for the agent to say "screw this guy, doesn't have the money and he only did this to mess us".

Yeah but you only know you havent got the money when you go to the screen.

Its especially annoying when the game doesnt account for expiring contracts coming off the wage budget so I could have 100k free for next season but wont be able to sign a player on a pre contract for 10k until those players physically leave the club.

I'd like to see the option to turn off agents if you wish not to have them in the game. Same with press conferences or for the AI to be sorted with regards to Ass Man upsetting everyone during them.

Same here, I hate PCs but I had to do them all as all the players got upset with me, not the ass man if he said something wrong.

press conferences will always be a bit boring and generic because we play lots of games in the space of a day. yeah there could be more questions and an AI improvement making the answers relate better but there will still be complaints from people who play 10, 15, 20 etc matches during their day.

player interaction has been a welcome addition for me, but it is another item that needs tweaking. there are too many occasions where the interactions are orders which are accepted, or lead to an argument. there needs to be more middle ground allowing the interactions seem more like conversations when needed.

dont agree that agents should be removed. they play a large part in football and should be implemented.

I also agree that scouting should be more random. i generally show all players attributes but on occasions i restrict this to give myself more of a challenge.

it should take numerous scout reports for all of a players attributes to become visible and they should be estimated figures initially, which become clearer when the player has been watched in more games in. this would be one area i would like SI to look into for future versions

I agree with most of what you said especially being able to right click on individual players during a match. This would be brilliant if for example say a player keeps blasting the ball from long range or not passing (which is the most infuriating thing ever), being able to right click on him during a match and have the option to tell him to be more of a team player would be brilliant. Also whilst thinking about it I do feel that the scouting idea would be brilliant if implemented right but, in my opinion be as an option at the start of the game. I for one would use it but it would alienate newer novice fm players and those who like to blast they're way through the game. But on the whole good ideas and COME ON SI READ!!

But if SI were to implement that right-click on the players idea, then they'd run the risk of the game becoming too easy, or at least the gamer having too much control in matches - the whole point of FM and what differentiates and makes it so much better to other management sims is that we CAN'T dictate exactly what the players do, they have their own individual personalities just like real life. Or IRL if you hang around these forums often enough to know what that means.

I think they're right to draw the line at the Player Instructions screen and manager shouts.

I think the press conferences really have to go,they really add nothing to the game and would be very surprised if even 10% of the players even attended them.

Even the 1st conference when you take control of the club is nothing but a chore,click this,click that then click this....always the same answers.

I even decided to not attend the 1st 1 and got the message that the media would not be sympathetic towards me in the future.....ok whatever.

SI have to either make this worth while and fun or take it out totally,this is a game and at no point should the player be thinking "oh God not this again".

For me I will play the Sir Alex Ferguson card and send my assistant manager...shame I can not send him for the 1st conference and say the usual nonsense for me.

But if SI were to implement that right-click on the players idea, then they'd run the risk of the game becoming too easy, or at least the gamer having too much control in matches - the whole point of FM and what differentiates and makes it so much better to other management sims is that we CAN'T dictate exactly what the players do, they have their own individual personalities just like real life. Or IRL if you hang around these forums often enough to know what that means.

I think they're right to draw the line at the Player Instructions screen and manager shouts.

I don't think that's what the OP meant. The right-click could just be a shortcut to the Player Instruction screen, where you can instruct the specific player to take less long shots, try more through balls etc. This would replace the multiple clicks and the waiting involved. Brilliant idea IMO.

I think the press conferences really have to go,they really add nothing to the game and would be very surprised if even 10% of the players even attended them.

Even the 1st conference when you take control of the club is nothing but a chore,click this,click that then click this....always the same answers.

I even decided to not attend the 1st 1 and got the message that the media would not be sympathetic towards me in the future.....ok whatever.

SI have to either make this worth while and fun or take it out totally,this is a game and at no point should the player be thinking "oh God not this again".

For me I will play the Sir Alex Ferguson card and send my assistant manager...shame I can not send him for the 1st conference and say the usual nonsense for me.

For me the press conferences is really the essence of the realism vs fun argument that crops up from time to time on this forum.

Press relations was supposed to increase our immersion into the game world but in its current state, it gets tedious so quickly that the intended effect is lost.

I think a better middle ground would be to limit the number of press conferences that we have to attend (cup finals, derby matches, only in higher leagues etc.) so as to prevent press conference burn-out.

In real life the Press Conferences is often the same thing. I am the only that see this ?