FM Match Engine - Why it's so bad

Before anyone doubts me before reading my theory, here are the stats from my past 10 games:

Record: W0, D0, L10.

Number of times I've had more than twice as many shots on goal as opposition: 8. One game, had 1/3 more shots, and another it was dead even.

Red cards: Me 7. Opposition 0.

Number of match-ending injuries: Me 8, Opposition 0.

Number of goals scored from beyond 20 yards: Me 0 of 21 shots. Opposition: 8 of 9.

Number of goals scored: Me: 1 from 72 shots. Opposition: 31 of 49 shots.

As you can see from these stats, I am constantly outplaying the opposition and losing, so its not as if there is a problem with my players, positioning, tactics etc. This leads me to one of three possible conclusions about the match-engine designers.

1. They are victims of a common mental mistake. They remember linstances of games in which the dominant team loses. Yes, this does happen, but its is rare and memorable. Because they stick in the memory, the match-engine designers think its quite common, as they can remember instances of it happening. But they should realise that the reason they stick in the memory is not because they're common, but because they're rare.

2. The match-engine designers don't think football is entertaining or unpredictable enough. Therefore they ramp up the bizzarro, extraordinary outcomes in an effort to make FM more interesting than football itself. I personally don't want a bizzarro version of football, I like the sport as it is.

3. Pre-determined outcomes. If playing with, for instance, a team that is a mid-table outfit, the match engine is designed that over the course of a season you will finish mid-table. Maybe a place or two higher or lower but that's it. So what does it do if you've designed your tactics and selections in such a way that you will outplay an opponent and threaten to finish quite a bit higher than forecast? It will give the opposition a result that is in keeping with its pre-determined order of what the result should be, even if you've completely outplayed them.

Nb, this was a problem that afflicted previous versions of the game, eg FM08, but it seemed to have been ironed out in FM10, only to come back with a vengeance in FM11.

I am astonished that you dont think that your players, positions and tactics have anything to do with these statistics- I suspect this is why you are having this problem.

I am astonished that you dont think that your players, positions and tactics have anything to do with these statistics- I suspect this is why you are having this problem.

FrazT, that is such an easy response that seems all too common on these boards.

LISTEN TO THE OP! He's given you the full statistics and it would take a complete numpty not to realise that something's up with the Match Engine given he's completely dominated all 10 games and scored just one goal.

I know the bugs are common knowledge now but this is the OP's first ever post, I doubt he's a regular reader of the board - and he's just putting his opinion across after what seems to be a good bit of research over 10 games.

My advice to the OP is to stick with FM10 until the next patch or two.... have faith in FM and in SI.... things will improve :-)

i'd like to see some screen shots of those stats before believing them, 8 game ending injuries in 10 games is very extreme. The fact you have conceeded 31 goals in ten games would definately suggest your tactics are completely wrong, either that or your choice of players, but again prove this with screen shots.

After playing FM11 for a few weeks now, I have come to the conclusion the game pulls result out of its ar5e. (If it had one). Very random.

FrazT, that is such an easy response that seems all too common on these boards.

LISTEN TO THE OP! He's given you the full statistics and it would take a complete numpty not to realise that something's up with the Match Engine given he's completely dominated all 10 games and scored just one goal.

I know the bugs are common knowledge now but this is the OP's first ever post, I doubt he's a regular reader of the board - and he's just putting his opinion across after what seems to be a good bit of research over 10 games.

My advice to the OP is to stick with FM10 until the next patch or two.... have faith in FM and in SI.... things will improve :-)

Those statistics could point to an issue with the ME, you are right there.

But they could also point to it being his players/tactics etc.

I would happiliy look at his save game and I am 99.99% certain that the problem is user related rather than ME related.

My response was based on the fact that yiou cannot possibly exclude tactics, positions and players from any discussion on the match engine after reviewing only 10 games. I am not saying that there may not be issues with the ME, but anyone who categorically denies that it is not at least partially down to the manager is mistaken IMO.

But how would the tactics – for the sake of the argument let's say they are awful and absolutely wrong – cause so many injuries and the strikingly disproportionate shots and goals ratios, if the numbers presented were to be true?

i really think he has exagerated that stat, unless he is starting players who are clearly not match fit and are going off with knocks due to being tired, i have never seen a run of injurys like that.

also the shots at goal stats mean nothing really, any team can pump 30 yard shots all game and not get near the goal, that to me would definately be tactics.

Apologies for taking my bad day at work out on your post FrazT.

You're right, probably a mix of bad ME and bad tactics.

I was unbeaten for 20 games before losing a cup game to a team in a higher league then MORALE PLUMMETED! Record was then W0 D2 L6!!!!

Game went back in box again!

Fed up of seeing CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: Team at the top of my squad screen. etc.

This thread alongside one decrying the game for being way too easy. So which is it?

I was unbeaten for 20 games before losing a cup game to a team in a higher league then MORALE PLUMMETED! Record was then W0 D2 L6!!!!

Game went back in box again!

You didn't see Leeds after they beat Man Utd in the cup last year then?

"On Sunday' date=' 3 January 2010, League One side Leeds beat Premier League champions Manchester United 1-0 at Old Trafford in the FA Cup third round.

After a series of false dawns, the shock victory seemed to confirm what the first five months of the season had suggested; that the revival of the fallen Leeds United Football Club was well under way.

Going into the game at Old Trafford, the Yorkshire side had played 23 games in League One and had won 17 of them. They led the table by eight points, with a game in hand on second-placed Charlton.

Since that successful trip across the Pennines, Leeds have recorded only four wins from 18 fixtures and now trail pace-setters Norwich - who they face in a crunch game at Carrow Road on Saturday - by the same eight-point margin they once held themselves. "

[url']http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/leeds_united/8586871.stm[/url]

The match engine cant tell the difference between AI and user teams. Soooooooooo tactics? How do you play, what players do you use, what team are you etc. Whether it is the ME or not, you would still need to tell us details like that, because otherwise we cant possibly eliminate all other possibilities.

That custom thing annoys me too.

I swear the glitch that causes that slows down the game too.

I reckon there are all manner of simialr glitches in the ME too but we'll never know

As you can see from these stats, I am constantly outplaying the opposition and losing, so its not as if there is a problem with my players, positioning, tactics etc. This leads me to one of three possible conclusions about the match-engine designers.

1. They are victims of a common mental mistake. They remember linstances of games in which the dominant team loses. Yes, this does happen, but its is rare and memorable. Because they stick in the memory, the match-engine designers think its quite common, as they can remember instances of it happening. But they should realise that the reason they stick in the memory is not because they're common, but because they're rare.

So all the matches I've dominated and won are figments of my imagination?

2. The match-engine designers don't think football is entertaining or unpredictable enough. Therefore they ramp up the bizzarro, extraordinary outcomes in an effort to make FM more interesting than football itself. I personally don't want a bizzarro version of football, I like the sport as it is

So all the streaks of form I've managed to put together are figments of my imagination?

3. Pre-determined outcomes. If playing with, for instance, a team that is a mid-table outfit, the match engine is designed that over the course of a season you will finish mid-table. Maybe a place or two higher or lower but that's it. So what does it do if you've designed your tactics and selections in such a way that you will outplay an opponent and threaten to finish quite a bit higher than forecast? It will give the opposition a result that is in keeping with its pre-determined order of what the result should be, even if you've completely outplayed them.

Nb, this was a problem that afflicted previous versions of the game, eg FM08, but it seemed to have been ironed out in FM10, only to come back with a vengeance in FM11.

So, the seasons in which I've won the league with a team predicted to come mid-table are figments of my imagination?

This type of thing is not happening to everybody. Indeed, a number of people complaining are the game is too easy. Despite the comments that your issues are a mixture of the ME and poor tactics, I'm afraid that is being too kind on you. Yes, the ME has some bugs, but for you to have such a record, you have to be doing something very, very wrong. It might be tactical, it might be man-managerial. It's impossible to tell from your post.

My advice to you is to ask for advice rather than assume your conclusions are objectively correct. I'm sure that with an open mind and some experimentation and persistence, you can start winning matches and understanding the game properly.

I'm not sure about the ME. I just dominated a half of football against man city, did everything but score, i had it on 'full match', yet in the stats it says city had 60% of possession, when i can see with my very eyes they barely had any.

Infact, i am losing the battle for possession in pretty much most games, although i'm still winning. I think stats are pulled out of thin air sometimes.

I am astonished that you dont think that your players, positions and tactics have anything to do with these statistics- I suspect this is why you are having this problem.

you really believe that?

to thread starter, it has to do with motivation and morale, they have become a big part of FM in the last 2 years and they decide whether you lose or win, not your tactics or players . maybe they should rename the game psychology manager?

This thread alongside one decrying the game for being way too easy. So which is it?

as i said it is pretty much hit and miss. if your team has good motivation.morale they will win everything, if not they will lose everything. the effect of it is simply too much.

as i said it is pretty much hit and miss. if your team has good motivation.morale they will win everything, if not they will lose everything. the effect of it is simply too much.

So the games I win with poor morale are just a figment of my imagination? The games where I turn a bad run around by switching up tactics to get a result?

There was a time when I thought that the results were "pre-determined," that there was not much you could do about it. Then I started learning how to truly manage the team. And I did experiments with replays. And of course, the replays didn't always result in the same result, even without changed tactics, and comparing tactics over multiple replays would have a noticeable effect upon goals scored and goals allowed. At which point, it occurred to me that the match engine, whatever its faults, didn't predetermine things.

Which is not to say that morale and motivation don't have a large effect. Of course they do. They do in real life, too. Having coached soccer, I can aver that they do.

The options are all there for managing morale - more than in any previous edition of the game. If you don't use them then you're going to suffer.

FrazT, that is such an easy response that seems all too common on these boards.

The point is, these things do generally come down to tactics etc. Now, that may be a flaw with the game but it's a case of learning what works in these cases.

The point is, these things do generally come down to tactics etc. Now, that may be a flaw with the game but it's a case of learning what works in these cases.

Probably the most reasonable and balanced reply about problems being tactics Ive heard. Still the game IS a mess- SI should be ashamed at releasing it in this state. The issues with transfers, player happiness and morale basically make the game unplayable if you attempt to use the new features.

Before anyone doubts me before reading my theory, here are the stats from my past 10 games:

Record: W0, D0, L10.

Number of times I've had more than twice as many shots on goal as opposition: 8. One game, had 1/3 more shots, and another it was dead even.

Red cards: Me 7. Opposition 0.

Number of match-ending injuries: Me 8, Opposition 0.

Number of goals scored from beyond 20 yards: Me 0 of 21 shots. Opposition: 8 of 9.

Number of goals scored: Me: 1 from 72 shots. Opposition: 31 of 49 shots.

As you can see from these stats, I am constantly outplaying the opposition and losing, so its not as if there is a problem with my players, positioning, tactics etc. This leads me to one of three possible conclusions about the match-engine designers.

1. They are victims of a common mental mistake. They remember linstances of games in which the dominant team loses. Yes, this does happen, but its is rare and memorable. Because they stick in the memory, the match-engine designers think its quite common, as they can remember instances of it happening. But they should realise that the reason they stick in the memory is not because they're common, but because they're rare.

2. The match-engine designers don't think football is entertaining or unpredictable enough. Therefore they ramp up the bizzarro, extraordinary outcomes in an effort to make FM more interesting than football itself. I personally don't want a bizzarro version of football, I like the sport as it is.

3. Pre-determined outcomes. If playing with, for instance, a team that is a mid-table outfit, the match engine is designed that over the course of a season you will finish mid-table. Maybe a place or two higher or lower but that's it. So what does it do if you've designed your tactics and selections in such a way that you will outplay an opponent and threaten to finish quite a bit higher than forecast? It will give the opposition a result that is in keeping with its pre-determined order of what the result should be, even if you've completely outplayed them.

Nb, this was a problem that afflicted previous versions of the game, eg FM08, but it seemed to have been ironed out in FM10, only to come back with a vengeance in FM11.

Erm... Here are the stats from MY last league season:

Record: W28, D5, L3

Number of times I've had more shots on goal as opposition: 35. Only one game, I got owned, and lost 3-0 owing to low motivation and a bad performance by my players. I scolded the hell out of them and they won the next game 6-0.

Red cards: Me: 4(for the whole 36 games in the season). Other 9 teams combined: 102

Number of longer-than-a-month injuries: Me 2, Others 37.

Number of goals scored from long shots: Me 26 of 122 shots. Opposition... Oh Well, you get the Idea...

If my tally looked anything like yours, I'd be calling a slightly skewed match engine 'So Bad' and posing as the victim here on the forums, but the truth is, if it gives out more bookings, it does the same to the AI teams, if you can't score off every shot, the AI does even worse. It's not "Fixed". I look at my team, look at individual key players in every positions, their attributes, and then design a tactic thinking how I can utilize them in the best manner possible. If you're not winning and doing well, then "It's your Tactics.".

C'mon, it's not like there aren't other more serious faults with the game in it's current state. The match engine seems to be gold compared to the other things.

Just poor balance, I hope they start to trim that balance before it gets totally out of control, it's been bottling up for quite a while.

So all the matches I've dominated and won are figments of my imagination?

.

So all the streaks of form I've managed to put together are figments of my imagination?

So, the seasons in which I've won the league with a team predicted to come mid-table are figments of my imagination?

This type of thing is not happening to everybody. Indeed, a number of people complaining are the game is too easy. Despite the comments that your issues are a mixture of the ME and poor tactics, I'm afraid that is being too kind on you. Yes, the ME has some bugs, but for you to have such a record, you have to be doing something very, very wrong. It might be tactical, it might be man-managerial. It's impossible to tell from your post.

My advice to you is to ask for advice rather than assume your conclusions are objectively correct. I'm sure that with an open mind and some experimentation and persistence, you can start winning matches and understanding the game properly.

This is quite an arrogant post, if I don't mind saying so? I'm not arguing here or saying your wrong, etc... But come Software/Code, each out come doesn't mean it will be replicable. In saying that, I mean he could use a 100% carbon copy of each "variable" you used, including players (not talking about programming variables ^^) and he will get a totally different out come. Why do you think bugs take time to replicate and fix?

Now, I believe he has a point, but also you do as well. I think the point is, he is trying to make the statement that he "dominates" the games only to find failure at the end, whilst the dominated find success. Does that sound right? of course not! But obviously there are other factors that are influencing/determining the end result be it tactics or problems with the ME. To be fair, in the current state, you can't rule out the latter. The only thing that can be done in these situations is to send in the save and have it looked at to see what is going on. No one, me or you can give an input to as what is right or wrong. The game is jus too unstable right now in terms of %'s (it's far from 100% playable, but not to the point it's unplayable, it's bearable.)

To extend on that last point, I can see a number of problems with the ME but I am still having success. In my current save, I have got Bromley from the BSS to the championship in 9years whilst currently challenging for promotion to the holy grail of domestic football. During these years, alot of rubbish has been seen whilst observing games and to give an example is the wingers. Clear on the wing, running down the line... they just keep running to the horizon ending in a goal kick? Tactics, me thinks not. Another, balls being passed to players that aren't even there? Resulting to a throw in. Little things like these all add up over the duration of the game. There are more glitches, but they will get sorted. It's just a waiting game at the moment, S.I know there are problems, we know there are problems but to say you're having success couldn't possibly mean that he isn't experiencing problems that is out of his control, is naive.

I have had similar times to the OP, just frustration is shown in different ways, and we all tolerate matters differently, he's just venting that frustration. At least he has done an analysis of the results/game(s) to find out a mean, is somewhat an effort and not just crying out "S.I FAIL. FM SUCKS" etc. Meet him in the middle, he obviously sees things differently and has the chance to "prove" this, if he is of course, telling the whole story 100% true to his knowledge.

I will simply say that the user (human), has an exceptional amount of control over results. Far more so than the AI (computer) does. Seriously...

I really don't want to sound facetious, but with the wealth of information, data and feedback this game gives us now, it's entirely up to the user what they do with it, or don't, as the case may be. In the vast majority of cases, the outcome of any "success" or "failure", is usually always in the hands of the user. Certainly there's aspects of the game that may seem outside of the user's control, especially instances within the match engine. It's how you either respond to them, or don't, that makes the difference though. That's what management is about. Reacting to what's happening and making decisions. Organising what's in front of you.

As a manager of a club in this game, there's so much the user can do that makes a genuine difference. Before, during and even after matches. There's a wealth of help within the game, both from the interface and the presentation of data, statistics, feedback and visual representation of the match engine.

Sure, there's glitches or issues of one kind or another. Without trying to sound any more like a pom-pom waver... I've really noticed nothing that ghastly that it's spoiling gameplay for me. About the only thing that's more of a nuisance than anything, is the...

CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: CUSTOM: Team at the top of my squad screen. etc.

...mentioned by Stephanie McMahon\'s Secret Lover.

Let's have a look at this "data" though...

Number of times I've had more than twice as many shots on goal as opposition: 8. One game, had 1/3 more shots, and another it was dead even.

You may simply have poor quality forwards, or players who's attributes lean towards fluffing chances more than they take them. Poor finishing, poor anticipation, poor composure, etc... They may not be suited to the roles you're using them in, thus they're less likely to perform as well as you might think. Lot's of reasons to explain the poor conversion of goals from chances. Without knowing the players you have, the tactical choices you're making, it's all speculation though. As is any assumption that chances should be taken more often, if your choices are poor.

Red cards: Me 7. Opposition 0.

You may be using hard tackling in your team settings, or instructing hard tackling "often" in the opposition instructions. You may have players with high aggression and low composure, along with poor technical abilities when it comes to tackling and marking opponents, resulting in rash challenges. On top of those, you may have had a run of harsh referees. You get information about referees before matches, so have the option to work this information into your game plan before matches. If you're seeing the referee book players easily or often, you can instruct your team to be more cautious in the tackle. You can discipline players accordingly in an attempt to get them to improve their discipline.

Again, countless things we can speculate on, but without PKM's or more details from you, we can only suggest potential causes.

Number of match-ending injuries: Me 8, Opposition 0.

Could be similar reasons to the red cards. But also, you could be using players who aren't fully fit, or who are prone to injury. You might be instructing players who aren't up to it, to challenge tougher players with hard tackling, thus they'll come off worse. You could be pushing your players too hard with more extreme physical demands in your tactics, draining their condition quickly, which is always likely to increase the risks of injuries. Not substituting tired players or players who've taken bad knocks. Again, so many things we can speculate on, which can directly contribute to your problems.

Number of goals scored from beyond 20 yards: Me 0 of 21 shots. Opposition: 8 of 9.

Again, could be entirely down to the abilities of your players and their tactical instructions. It could simply be that those who are finding the space to take long shots, aren't the best suited to be taking them. You might not be responding to assistant feedback, which would likely highlight that although you're getting shots off, they're mostly from distance and not troubling the keeper. There's plenty of things you can try, or that the assistant will advise even, to help the situation. You have the option, or not, to respond to that feedback.

Number of goals scored: Me: 1 from 72 shots. Opposition: 31 of 49 shots.

Pretty much the same things I said about shots above.

Essentially, there can be many reasons for all the "data" that you've provided, which might not be flaws in the game, but flaws in the decisions you are or aren't making, or the usage of tactics and players at your disposal.

At this point, all I can really say, is upload a your save game after this run of defeats and some of us will take a look at it. We can then watch the matches you've played, look at the tactics and the players you've been using, along with looking at some of the choices you've made with media, team-talks, player chats, etc...

This is quite an arrogant post, if I don't mind saying so? I'm not arguing here or saying your wrong, etc... But come Software/Code, each out come doesn't mean it will be replicable. In saying that, I mean he could use a 100% carbon copy of each "variable" you used, including players (not talking about programming variables ^^) and he will get a totally different out come. Why do you think bugs take time to replicate and fix?

Now, I believe he has a point, but also you do as well. I think the point is, he is trying to make the statement that he "dominates" the games only to find failure at the end, whilst the dominated find success. Does that sound right? of course not! But obviously there are other factors that are influencing/determining the end result be it tactics or problems with the ME. To be fair, in the current state, you can't rule out the latter. The only thing that can be done in these situations is to send in the save and have it looked at to see what is going on. No one, me or you can give an input to as what is right or wrong. The game is jus too unstable right now in terms of %'s (it's far from 100% playable, but not to the point it's unplayable, it's bearable.)

To extend on that last point, I can see a number of problems with the ME but I am still having success. In my current save, I have got Bromley from the BSS to the championship in 9years whilst currently challenging for promotion to the holy grail of domestic football. During these years, alot of rubbish has been seen whilst observing games and to give an example is the wingers. Clear on the wing, running down the line... they just keep running to the horizon ending in a goal kick? Tactics, me thinks not. Another, balls being passed to players that aren't even there? Resulting to a throw in. Little things like these all add up over the duration of the game. There are more glitches, but they will get sorted. It's just a waiting game at the moment, S.I know there are problems, we know there are problems but to say you're having success couldn't possibly mean that he isn't experiencing problems that is out of his control, is naive.

I have had similar times to the OP, just frustration is shown in different ways, and we all tolerate matters differently, he's just venting that frustration. At least he has done an analysis of the results/game(s) to find out a mean, is somewhat an effort and not just crying out "S.I FAIL. FM SUCKS" etc. Meet him in the middle, he obviously sees things differently and has the chance to "prove" this, if he is of course, telling the whole story 100% true to his knowledge.

With respect, you've missed entirely both the point the OP was attempting to make, and the reason for wwfan's response.

Had the OP limited his post to an exposition of his results and a questioning of whether or not they were the result of a bugged or poorly designed game, your post would be appropriate. But that's not what the OP did. Instead, he draws the (unstated) conclusion that his results must be typical, and intended. Note that he makes an assertion that his assumptions have been true of the game for at least the previous three iterations. He is equating his results with the norm for the game, probably, in his mind, intended by the designers.

wwfan's response targets this set of assumptions. If they are true, then it would be highly unlikely that wwfan would be getting the extreme opposite. Further, wwfan's post includes the unstated assumption that he is not alone in having had opposite outcomes from the game. Thus, it is directly to the point of the OP.