I'm sure irl arsenal are suppsed to make money!

Not hemerage it like there's no tomorrow. From the start, as arsenal I seem to be loosing around 5-6 m per month minimum. I don't have much more of a wage bill than when I started and I have a better rep and two commercial links yet I still leak money like no ones buisness.

Last month the club spent out 29m. There were a few signing on fees in there but the rest was non football costs and the dreaded 'other'.

A always thought that arsenal make healthy profits?

That's what happens in real life mate. You need to reduce wages and do well in European and Domestic competitions to make up for your losses

Ok, just googled it and on general running arsenal make slight losses. However, we are making cash off of highbury square now and still have property to sell. Plus our group debt is only 136m which we seem to be paying in lumps here and there rather than 1.6m per month until 2042 or whatever. Who does the reserch for these things on si?

Who does the reserch for these things on si?

Volunteers. If you want to question it though, have a look here, just make sure you do your research well first.

Usually clubs make losses during the season in FM and in the higher leagues you should be able to compensate this by price money at the end of the season (unless your wage bill is too high). In reality most clubs may have a big turnover, but they only make a small profit, if at all.

Teams have a build up of money pre-season in season tickets, tv, shirt sponsorship etc which forms a big pot at the start of say a season. Wages and other expenses are then deducted on a monthly basis. The transfer and salary budget are calculated based on this starting pot of money and the forecasted monthly deductions so that at the end of the season the pot is zero or higher e.g. it appears that a club is losing money each month but this is how football clubs work

They'll make healthy profits if they keep wages below the budget or dont use their transfer pot

This is how it works irl and how it works in FM If you have further queries I suggest yoy go onto the Arsenal data thread and discuss with the relevant reasearcher

Simples

Personally i would love to see a complete overhaul of the "off field" stats shown in the game. There is no need for the board to say how much money they made/lost each month, after all it is not the manager/coach's business (i dont believe that Abrahimovic contacts Ancelotti at the end of the month and says to him that his club has made a 10 million loss in the past month) Instead a simple "quarterly" news items regarding finances would be more realistic. The same goes for the Finances screen. Rather than a monthly graph, which is really confusing and unnecessary, SI should use an yearly graph similar to the one used in say, Madden NFL 08. We all know that the finances will dip each month while some items such as sponsorship money, season tickets, price money and transfer income/expenditure are only available at the start or end of the season or during the transfer window.

It was just something I read in the guardian about arsenal and their financial position. My iPhone won't let me paste in the link though so you'll have to google it.

Personally i would love to see a complete overhaul of the "off field" stats shown in the game. There is no need for the board to say how much money they made/lost each month, after all it is not the manager/coach's business (i dont believe that Abrahimovic contacts Ancelotti at the end of the month and says to him that his club has made a 10 million loss in the past month) Instead a simple "quarterly" news items regarding finances would be more realistic. The same goes for the Finances screen. Rather than a monthly graph, which is really confusing and unnecessary, SI should use an yearly graph similar to the one used in say, Madden NFL 08. We all know that the finances will dip each month while some items such as sponsorship money, season tickets, price money and transfer income/expenditure are only available at the start or end of the season or during the transfer window.

Unless you are going to improve it then I'd certainly prefer it as is. On the basis its working fine currently then without an overhaul there is no reason to change it to something thats dumbed down in my personal opinion

Looking through theboards this particular area is not one concerning people. However maybe raise it in the improvements wish list and see what response you get. You may need to detail more detail around what you'd like to see

Ok, just googled it and on general running arsenal make slight losses. However, we are making cash off of highbury square now and still have property to sell. Plus our group debt is only 136m which we seem to be paying in lumps here and there rather than 1.6m per month until 2042 or whatever. Who does the reserch for these things on si?

I've posted the Arsenal financial results before and the group debt is not £136m.

Rather than taking random links off google here are the official reports: Arsenal Financial Reports

Page 17 of the 2009/10 annual report clearly shows long term debt of £266m which is then offset by £127m of cash reserves.

It also shows that £239m of the long term debt has a fixed repayment agreement over the next 21yrs.

You are also wrong that Arsenal make a slight loss over a season - Page 12 of the report shows a profit of £56m (Before tax but after player trading) for Y/E 2010 of which £44.8 was football related with the other £11.2m property related. This was up from Y/E 2009 which showed a overall profit of £45.5m (Before tax, after transfers) - Football (£39.9m) & Property (£5.6m).

For a start I admit it is just something I heard in the media and my thread isn't posted as an attack really but more as a question which has been answered to an extent.

However the gaurdian I'm sure must be quite a reliable source and they say:"The most pleasing aspect of these results is that the returns generated in the property business during the year, particularly at Highbury Square, have allowed us to repay £130m of bank loans and significantly reduce the group's overall net debt," said Hill-Wood. "We now have a debt-free property business which is accumulating surplus cash as further unit sales are made at Highbury Square and which has three further property assets to realise over the next few years."

The group's overall net debt has been reduced from £297.7m to £135.6m. That contrasts sharply with the £716m borrowed against Manchester United and their own stake in the club by the Glazers and the £237m owed by Liverpool to the Royal Bank of Scotland. Such is the interest on those loans that the Anfield managing director, Christian Purslow, admitted this week that servicing the debt absorbed most of Liverpool's cashflow and left little spare to invest in the squad.

Care to comment on hillwoods quote?

I'm not sure what you want me to comment on :confused:

The quote has come direct from the chairman's report on page 4 of the financial report.

What they have failed to do though is quote the full report instead picking extracts from it which seems to have confused you.

The report does show that they have repaid £130m of bank loans which leaves them with:

"The Group’s only remaining debts are the long-term bonds which represent our “mortgage” on the Emirates Stadium and supporter held debentures, which are also long-term."

There is also the use of the term "Net Debt" which are the long term debts - current cash reserves.

While in terms of profit the chairman's report says:

"I am pleased to open my report to shareholders by confirming another excellent set of financial results. Turnover of £379.9 million and profit before taxation of £56.0 million are at new record high levels for the Group."

The financial model in-game is fairly poor and basic at the moment. For example, it is impossible to replicate Manchester United's bond issue - it pays coupons and one lump sum in the end - rather than an "amortised" c.£700m (or whatever it is now) debt - we don't pay c.£700m divided by the number of months remaining, per month. It's a bond, not a loan.

Similarly, Arsenal's finances are complicated by the fact that the "Arsenal Group" company has many sources of revenue and debts besides the football club alone, so cashflows are difficult to emulate in this fashion.

In addition, any sort of debt seems to be paid monthly - whilst some financial instruments pay yearly, weekly or perhaps even daily - another weakness of the game.