Worried by regens quality

How do they look to you? Okay?

I don't mean the regens that come in from countries/leagues that aren't active, but the regens in the league you accutally play in.

I'm playing as Athletic and because of the rule of only using Basque players coupled with the hole in the rule that you can apperently sign spanish players without a Basque passport if they are 16 year or younger, I've been looking carefully at the spanish youth coming through. What worries me is that there is very few players that turn out to be quality players. They have potential, but few ever come close to being good enough. So far, after 5 seasons, I've gotten 3 players through, good enough for the first team, and that's saying something as I've basicly scouted and signed any Spanish regen with 3 stars or more.

Some look promising, but develop very slowly and it dosen't matter if I loan them out or tutor them while letting them have a go with the first team. Perhaps the biggest problem is that there is a lot of promising strikers with values around 3-5 in finishing and composure, and even with dedicated training they rarely improve by more than 1 point pr year. The few that have a decent value in finishing and composure have useless pysihical attributes. I've also gotten quite a few center midfielders with 3-5 in creativity and passing. The wingers in general look absolutley terrible. Either they have okay mental and tecnical stats with no pace, or they have pace, but terrible mental and techincal stats.

Basicly I'm concerned that I will have to give this save up because of the lack of quality players. I just retrained a DC/ST with 4,5 stars in potential that had 4 in finishing and 5 in composure and values of around 5 in all defensive skills. He had 17 in pace, 16 acceleration and 15 in dribbling, so in other words he was no good any where else than on the wing. As he gained 'accomplished' status in MR position, all his values dropped by one single point!!

I would say that the majority good newgen strikers in my game all have a finishing below 8. Is a real shame because other than this there are some great prospects. Unless all of the worlds young strikers start pulling their finger out in front of goal then there is a massive bug.

It's worrying me some of these regens.

I don't know what SI have done but they're so much worse than the regens from 10.3 on FM10

I count 12 strikers who's age is at most 18 with 12 finishing + composure and out of them I'd say only one could go onto play for a decent side in a top league like the EPL, but then if I up that to at least 13 finishing + composure I only get 2 regen strikers appear, neither who look like they could play in a top league.

I'm also seeing full backs who can't position themselves all the time, goalkeepers with awful technicals but good physicals... etc

I play FM for long term saves and I don't have a clue how I can with this problem, how on earth did they manage to create this problem?

I'm in 2018, and I'm seeing Barcelona and Man Utd and the likes with jaw-droppingly good Regens taking out all kinds of awards.

But at a slightly lower level, I'm seeing what-would-be quality strikers with bizarrely low finishing; what-would-be excellent young centre backs who can't tackle; what-would-be brilliant midfielders, but who can't pass! I'm not sure if this has been intentionally toned down by SI, especially for these 'mediocre' players, but it most certainly is concerning. It seems there is no real middle ground: A striker is either has great finishing but is physically worse than an obese midget, or is like Usain Bolt with great mental attributes but his technical attributes indicate that he's probably never kicked a football in his life. The same goes for midfielders with respect to passing/creativity and to a lesser extent with defenders and their tackling/marking. Strikers certainly appear to be the greatest concern though.

I started to see the same prob in my game. Bar two amazing south Americans who cropped up after my first season I've had no players of great note I have once again had to resort to some strategically placed black tape and the fmrte to make sure enough good players are coming through to make the game last.

If si struggle that much with regens as they clearly do then why not just store thousands of different templates of current players with slight variations of each one and just 'rebirth' players. Have a set level in the game and maintain it.

Another problem is opp manager ai. It's barely good enough to manage playing games and buying players. Developing players is beyond it at the moment IMO.

It's worrying me some of these regens.

I don't know what SI have done but they're so much worse than the regens from 10.3 on FM10

I count 12 strikers who's age is at most 18 with 12 finishing + composure and out of them I'd say only one could go onto play for a decent side in a top league like the EPL, but then if I up that to at least 13 finishing + composure I only get 2 regen strikers appear, neither who look like they could play in a top league.

I'm also seeing full backs who can't position themselves all the time, goalkeepers with awful technicals but good physicals... etc

I play FM for long term saves and I don't have a clue how I can with this problem, how on earth did they manage to create this problem?

If that's much worse than 10.3 was, then we're screwed...

FM10 had a farily unbalanced newgens system, so it wasn't easy making it worse

What in-game year are you in?

Usually there are people who run stats on regens relatively soon after the game is released.

I think we need to raise the urgency on this issue, get some stats compiled and make sure this gets filed as a bug. this is definitely something that can't wait until the 3rd full patch in feb if it is really an issue!

ive noticed something similar, 5 seasons in and there are a heap of strikers who would be good but they have terrible finishing, and the ones with good finishing are rubbish at everything else, but like in FM10 those with terrible finishing are highly rated, so much so one of mines has now made it into the scotland squad, he has finishing 10, everything else is there for him to be world class. There are world class full backs with tackling 5 and as is said midfielders with passing 5, its annoying there was this issue in FM10 with centerbacks who couldnt jump of goalkeepers would couldnt rush out. There are a few who come through who are good at all things but very very few, the annoying thing is i dont expect all of them to be able to finish well but ratings below ten for strikers good enough to play international football is annoying.

I'd like to know more about these 'regen templates' that were supposed to be in FM11 which were supposed to make players more balanced in their chosen position. So far, I've seen nothing of the sort.

The real problems I've encoutered are similar to ArsenalFan7, strikers with very poor finishing and goalkeepers with great technical and mental stats, but very very poor technical stats.

The goalkeepers have always been a problem, but it used to be the reverse, with great technicals and poor everything else, now SI seem to have reversed it somehow.

With the strikers, the overall finishing attributes do seem to be a problem, but there are a few (on my save at least) who do seem to have very good finishing, but they are the rarity rather than the norm.

ive played quite a long way through and i think some of the regens are pretty good, havent really compared them to players at the start of the game, but here is 3 for you to look at, see what u think

http://img14.imageshack.us/i/regenr.jpg/

http://img830.imageshack.us/i/rgen2.jpg/

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/regen3.jpg/

ive played quite a long way through and i think some of the regens are pretty good, havent really compared them to players at the start of the game, but here is 3 for you to look at, see what u think

http://img14.imageshack.us/i/regenr.jpg/

http://img830.imageshack.us/i/rgen2.jpg/

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/regen3.jpg/

We do know there are still pretty stellar newgens...

The issue isn't about FM failing to generate "the next Messi" or "the next Gerrard"

The issue is about FM failing to generate a consistent and balanced batch of Sahas, Cahills and Jagielkas

If that's much worse than 10.3 was, then we're screwed...

FM10 had a farily unbalanced newgens system, so it wasn't easy making it worse

What in-game year are you in?

I'm only in the 4th season but still so little regens who will get anywhere near good finishing etc

It's quite plain for all of us to see there's a huge problem that needs to be solved

I thought those 10.3 regens were quite good myself? Found a lot of balance and quite a few good regens on my saves back then, so much greater than this

I got a handful of regens who are missing key attributes. Worryingly, it doesn't seem to affect their performance too much. Got a striker who has it all except 7 in finishing currently on 13 from 15. I also got two midfielders with passing 7 and 9 (everything else is very nice) who are more than holding their own. I'm beginning to feel silly in paying attention to attributes in the first place.

How are you feeling silly about it?

Attributes are one of the things that make this game.

It's extremely unrealistic to have players like these.

Any word from SI about a fix to this in the patch?

Maybe the way attributes work has been changed slightly in FM11? I've got a couple of regen strikers with Finishing below 13 and one of them is currently top scorer in the EPL. He's got good numbers for his other attributes though. Perhaps people are focussing too much on one or two key attributes instead of taking account of all of them as a whole.

But Finishing is the main attribute for a striker and a hell of a lot of regens lack it.

They may as well be wingers as far as their attributes go

The distribution of finishing attributes in the database is surprisingly quite sparse - there aren't supposed to be too many players with finishing 17-20, and it shows.

I would argue regens have been too good for too long, anyway - there were too many "very good" players in 10.3. These should be rare, too.

But Finishing is the main attribute for a striker and a hell of a lot of regens lack it.

They may as well be wingers as far as their attributes go

But experience shows that isn't the case. Other attributes can compensate for relatively low Finishing. Perhaps it's us focussing too much on one attribute and not a problem with the regens.

Perhaps people are focussing too much on one or two key attributes instead of taking account of all of them as a whole.

There is a very detailed post about how attributes work in the Tactics and Training section on here. The short version: Certain mental stats and Technique are much more important than the other technical stats, which are usually applied to a very narrow range of situations anyway.

If a striker stays calm under pressure in the box ( Composure ), picks the right option ( Decisions ) and has the Technique to actually execute the chosen option ( Well, what did you expect to read here ? ), he'll probably produce a decent finish even with a low Finishing stat. Hardly any striker has even close to Van the Man's nose for goals, yet teams score around the globe every weekend.

So yes, I believe certain stats are somewhat overrated. That is not to say everything is fine though. I'm still early in my current save but I've already noticed some bizarre regen templates as well and while their impact may not be as pronounced as most people in this thread seem to think there is no reason not to fix distorted stat distribution if it indeed exists.

I'd like to know more about these 'regen templates' that were supposed to be in FM11 which were supposed to make players more balanced in their chosen position. So far, I've seen nothing of the sort.

You seem to mis-understand what the templates are.

There are templates for different kind of strikers, the small fast ones (Defoe) the tall gangly ones with good feet (Crouch) the powerful strong ones (Drogba) and so on, including templates of strikers with poor finishing.

SI know what real players template is like and how many of that template is in the game, so when one player of that template retires a replacement is generated. If there is a problem then it is the fact that the templates of players with poor finishing are retiring more often then the other templates and so they are the most commonly generated newgen template.

That reasoning can apply to other positions as well, like keepers with poor technincal attributes.

Finishing isn't the only vital attribute for a player, IMO Composure is even more vital and Anticipation and Off the Ball are also important. A player with high values for those attributes will more then be able to compensate for a poor Finishing as he'll have more chances to score. Some PPMs can also help to compensate for poor finishing.

Just found this guy

Incredible. But yeah, most regens are rubbish.

Very reasonable points, spankie...

However I think the "visual impact" of a newgen's stats and octagon can't be underestimated, especially when the "shape" of a player is unusual or downright odd for the position.

Those are two strikers [from FM10, as I haven't gone that far with FM11] at Arsenal and Man City, anno 2018. Not starting XI material, but still rotation players at Top Clubs, while their attributes are unconvincing at best...

Actually one of them could work better as a winger.

And even if you "expand" their attributes, stretching the octagon, the shape would still look weird for a striker.

So, even though a striker with poor composure/finishing can still score a lot or be useful, the comparison with the original db players is still a tad odd at times... Probably because most real life players are "too well-rounded" in the original database?

Only on these forums would you get someone saying Finsihing is 'far from' a main attribute for a striker.

If that is true, then we might as well un-install the game now.

FM11 follows a template system and in the future the attributes of newgens are in line with those of the starting database.

Lucas, spankie makes a very interesting point and I wonder if you can respond to that. A poor player is more likely to retire than a good player. In FM10 and before, many of the poorest players would retire aged 16 or 17 , having never found a club after being released straight after being generated. Do these youngsters get recycled - i.e. regens are using their templates? Because if that is the case, it will be the case that a high proportion of regens in all positions will have very poor potential.

Only on these forums would you get someone saying Finsihing is 'far from' a main attribute for a striker.

If that is true, then we might as well un-install the game now.

Attributes used when a player takes a shot:a player takes a shot at goal (my opinion anyway):

Teamwork -> Determination -> Creativity -> Technique -> Decisions -> Composure -> Finishing

Teamwork will decide if the shot is in the best interest of the team. Determination decides if the player will even try perform the shot. Creativity presents the player with X amount of options. Technique will give him the range of options on the type of shot the player can perform. Decisions controls how, where and when he will shoot. Composure controls how well the player makes his decisons under pressure, and Finishing controls the final accuracy of the shot in the end.

Many attributes are taken into account, meaning that finishing is not the primary attribute in some cases - which is my point. You will also see some tactical roles themselves do not highlight finishing as a standout attribute.

FM11 follows a template system and in the future the attributes of newgens are in line with those of the starting database.

i think the main point is there doesnt seem to be a middle ground, there are some amazing regens coming through which is fine, but there doesnt seem to be a lot of middle of the road players, they are either amazing at finishing or terrible, that and i dont understand why players come through the game with vital stats missing like that, is it maybe you are suppose to look at these players and retrain them into different roles? I mean a right back with tackling 6 is a bit extreme, i know tackling is not the be all and end all of being a defender but why would the game give us players who could be world beaters but are missing this one vital stat. Its not a one off thing, i have found quite a few players now that are just missing one stat from being very good, they are at big teams and will no doubt go onto play a major part at their clubs, but it stil seems odd. I can post up examples if you would like to see what i am talking about.

There are real players who are lacking in a vital attribute for their position, look at Jay DeMerit and Cameron Lindsay and you'll see thast they're boht DCs with poor Positioning and in Lindsay's case Marking as well.

There are also quite a few real life examples of strikers with poor finishing, just do a player search on your game and use filters for players over 20 with less then 10 finishing and there will be a few big names there.

There are real players who are lacking in a vital attribute for their position, look at Jay DeMerit and Cameron Lindsay and you'll see thast they're boht DCs with poor Positioning and in Lindsay's case Marking as well.

There are also quite a few real life examples of strikers with poor finishing, just do a player search on your game and use filters for players over 20 with less then 10 finishing and there will be a few big names there.

i guess your right to be honest, but in those instances those players are not great overall, whereas people seem to be seeing players who could be top top players but with one vital missing stat, they will still be classed as world class by the game. Maybe im just being too picky!!!!

Isn't the game about being fun?

Without a lot of nice regens the game isn't as enjoyable as used to be. The game was getting better and better in making regens, but now it's back to crap imo...

Now you will try to get the best regens, while the other teams will have the "broken" regens, which takes away the challenge of competing good teams...

After some years the game is way too easy, because you have way better players than the other teams, because the lack of many nice regens...

Have to agree that all but two or three regen strikers I have seen have dreadful finishing, and in general it's hard to find regens who are potentially viable first team players, especially if you're trying to build your squad around domestic players.

I have not seen a local regen ( from managed club ) In ages... since FM2009.

Worth a damn...that is.

Isn't the game about being fun?

Without a lot of nice regens the game isn't as enjoyable as used to be. The game was getting better and better in making regens, but now it's back to crap imo...

Now you will try to get the best regens, while the other teams will have the "broken" regens, which takes away the challenge of competing good teams...

After some years the game is way too easy, because you have way better players than the other teams, because the lack of many nice regens...

So true, I miss that...and getting the occasional wonder kid in the club. Thats all gone.

The only thing that really seems wrong with regens in my eyes is the correlation between dribbling and flair. It's difficult to find a flashy player who's actually any good.

What's more worrying to me about top-class 11.1 strikers isn't that they're bad at finishing, but that they're excellent passers. Maybe the game isn't putting enough people into the poacher/advanced forward mold? In any case it's better than 10.3's strategy of giving every non-giant striker about the same attribute distribution. Also, do you remember the centerbacks who couldn't jump from FM10? 11.1's regens are far, far better than 10.3's, it isn't even close to being close.

Wait a minute, if SI doesn't see any problem with newgens, and they claim it's not a problem that many strikers have finishing below 10, why they gave Rooney, Adebayor, Tevez and others finishing 15+???

The truth is that newgens system in FM always failed, and it was hard to find a wonderkid with balanced good atributes, as it is in real football.

Wait a minute, if SI doesn't see any problem with newgens, and they claim it's not a problem that many strikers have finishing below 10, why they gave Rooney, Adebayor, Tevez and others finishing 15+???

Because they are deserving of finishing over 15?

After all, they are amongst the best strikers in the world!

It's a bit outrageous how the might Darren Dent only has 15 finishing whilst other prats like Torres and Rooney have more

I'm through to 2022 now with West Ham and my observations with regens are as follows;

Too many regens lack in a key attribute relative to their position, for example, defenders with heading or positioning is the most common I can find, strikers with finishing, attacking midfielders with flair or creativity, wingers with dribbling and wing backs with tackling and positioning are also common occurences.

Clubs also don't seem to want to give very good youth players a chance, limiting their development, I've seen quite a substantial amount of 3/3 and a half/4 star potential rated players amount to nothing due to lack of opportunity.

I managed to cope fine with highly intensive custom schedules and individual focus training, but still, this shouldn't have to be the case.

Obviously there are exceptions and there are some truly world-class players who have very little weakness, which is good. Like previously mentioned it seems to be the very good and good players that are affected, not the exceptional ones.

ive played quite a long way through and i think some of the regens are pretty good, havent really compared them to players at the start of the game, but here is 3 for you to look at, see what u think

http://img14.imageshack.us/i/regenr.jpg/

http://img830.imageshack.us/i/rgen2.jpg/

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/regen3.jpg/

These players are unrealistically well-rounded, in my opinion.

Wait a minute, if SI doesn't see any problem with newgens, and they claim it's not a problem that many strikers have finishing below 10, why they gave Rooney, Adebayor, Tevez and others finishing 15+???

The truth is that newgens system in FM always failed, and it was hard to find a wonderkid with balanced good atributes, as it is in real football.

Because they are generally considered players with exceptional talent and good ability to score from close range? Please stop trying to win an arguement with outlier data. If you looked at the thread linked by Riz he's saying that c.30% of real life young strikers actuall have lowish finishing stats, just like the regens.

the regens dont come close to the db players. im trying to sign a young midfielder but out of the regens there are only a handful with off ball, positioning, teamwork, workrate, of 10. and of those most of them either cant pass or have no creativity. the players arent well rounded enough. im also trying to find outisde attacking wingers in the ronaldo mold but none of them have finishing and pace. pace of 15 and finishing of 13 but they just dont have it. The other issue with the regen strikers is that they dont seem to develop into players anything like the good db players. then the players who would be awesome centerbacks who cant tackle. its driving me crazy trying to find regens i want to sign.

the regens dont come close to the db players.

If you want regens with 17 Free Kick Taking (and set pieces for the most part) you're in luck though.

Or those with super high flair.

Tell me do gens still turn out like this in FM11?

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5919/fm10gen.png

A lot of them are.

There aren't enough good regens...

There is some rough data from a soak in the thread on the bugs forum about the finishing attribute, which would also support the fact that there are quite a lot of strikers in the real player DB with a "lacking" finishing attribute:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/242500-Newgen-strikers-with-appalling-finishing-attributes

Could we therefore expect a very slight tweak on regens finishing value in the next patch or not ?

Thanks

BTW , my personal opinion regarding regens is that GK regens are like diamonds, I mean they are almost impossible to find except extremely rare exceptions within South Africa mines.

Could we therefore expect a very slight tweak on regens finishing value in the next patch or not ?

Thanks

BTW , my personal opinion regarding regens is that GK regens are like diamonds, I mean they are almost impossible to find except extremely rare exceptions within South Africa mines.

Sort of reflects the true world, no?

Júlio César, Casillas and Buffon are considered amongst the best over the past 3-4 years, while there is a small set of players largely considered below them: Reina, van der Sar and Cech, for example. So it's not like there are tons of brilliant goalkeepers in real-life.