Disenchanted with the latest patch, AGAIN. This is a long one...

Before i begin, i am not a newbie on a rant about the game being too hard, and not knowing what to do. Nor am i serial complainer who hates the developers, far from it. I am/was a big supporter of the game, and the effort that the developers used to put into the game, including patches was a revelation (Not many other companies seem to bother).

In actual fact, i never actually used to bother about the patches, whether that was a fix or a data update, until just before Champ Man became Football Manager. The little bugs never used to put me off, as it was far better than other games of it's type on the market, so i didn't worry about them.

Now, i've became more and more disenchanted about the series as whole, starting with last years version, and looking like finishing with this years. Once again with i waited with much anticipation for the new release, but became more dissilusioned with the usual delays (So much so i considered not buying it at all). Finally the day came, and it is released. I get home, load it in on my laptop and begin. Against my better judgement, i choose to go Rangers (Who i felt especially for the last few years have had their player attributes vastly under-rated).

Regardess, i start my first game and beared through it with gritted teeth at all the goals scored from corners, board confidence issues etc etc. After reading the forums, and finding out i was not alone i beared with it for a while until i could take no more, and gave up. FM08 ended up sitting in the box unused and unwanted till some kind of patch came along to begin fixing some of the major issues.

Lo and behold, the patch came, and i have to say i was pretty impressed. There were still a few niggly things which occured, but by and large, nothing major to seriously affect my enjoyment of the game, or the thrill of building my team to go on to greater and greater things. I read with interest in the forums how people were still experiencing problems which were annoying them immensely, and have to say i was quite surprised. Whilst my game wasn't bug free, the one's i experienced were quite minor, and didn't affect my team that much.

So, there i am on my 7th Season with Rangers, new patch applied. A few leagues and cups under my belt, a few good runs in Europe and a bit of money in the bank. Got a reputation that is persuading some bigger name players to try the Scottish league, and all seem's well. My first 18 league games that season have been unbeaten, only 4 goals conceded and my top 2 strikers are averaging almost 2 goals a game each.

I see that the new patch is out and am enjoying my game so much i don't worry about applying it right away (i wish i had kept it like that). The new patch goes on and disaster strikes. My team concede 18 goals in the nex 10 games, i have only won 2 of them and drawn 2. I have conceded an own goal in 6 of the games (having conceded no own goals in the previous 7 seasons of play!!!). My board are moaning on about a result that happened in the first week of the season and how they are not happy with my performance, my players have turned into depressed lemmings who's morale is always rock bottom. I can't get rid of anyone as no-one want's them, and i can't sign anyone as apparently offering £30million for a goalkeeper rated at £6million isn't enough, although the computer AI sign's him for £7million the following day (i have no history with the other club or manager, and the goalkeeper was in a lower rated league). And to top it all off, i am promptly sacked.

As said in the forums, best to start a fresh game after installing a new patch (since it has ruined my current one, i have no choice). So i start afresh, and look forward to a new game. Spend all my money singing the best players in the league, whilst managing to get a few high earners off the wage bill (for nothing as usual, only to find an English team picks them up and they are worth twice as much as they were at Rangers). My new game is even worse than the last, and i have retired before reaching the end of the season.

I have now became so fed up with spending time building a team only for it to be completely ruined by one stupid bug or another that i think it might be time to jack in Football Manager for good. Given that there are no quality alternatives on the market, it seems i might have to give up on Football Manager sims all together, but until the developers can start putting the game together without stupid flaws which ruin the game on an almost constant basis, i can't see me buying Football Manager 2009. Then again, why would they care, it's only 1 person's £25.

Before i begin, i am not a newbie on a rant about the game being too hard, and not knowing what to do. Nor am i serial complainer who hates the developers, far from it. I am/was a big supporter of the game, and the effort that the developers used to put into the game, including patches was a revelation (Not many other companies seem to bother).

In actual fact, i never actually used to bother about the patches, whether that was a fix or a data update, until just before Champ Man became Football Manager. The little bugs never used to put me off, as it was far better than other games of it's type on the market, so i didn't worry about them.

Now, i've became more and more disenchanted about the series as whole, starting with last years version, and looking like finishing with this years. Once again with i waited with much anticipation for the new release, but became more dissilusioned with the usual delays (So much so i considered not buying it at all). Finally the day came, and it is released. I get home, load it in on my laptop and begin. Against my better judgement, i choose to go Rangers (Who i felt especially for the last few years have had their player attributes vastly under-rated).

Regardess, i start my first game and beared through it with gritted teeth at all the goals scored from corners, board confidence issues etc etc. After reading the forums, and finding out i was not alone i beared with it for a while until i could take no more, and gave up. FM08 ended up sitting in the box unused and unwanted till some kind of patch came along to begin fixing some of the major issues.

Lo and behold, the patch came, and i have to say i was pretty impressed. There were still a few niggly things which occured, but by and large, nothing major to seriously affect my enjoyment of the game, or the thrill of building my team to go on to greater and greater things. I read with interest in the forums how people were still experiencing problems which were annoying them immensely, and have to say i was quite surprised. Whilst my game wasn't bug free, the one's i experienced were quite minor, and didn't affect my team that much.

So, there i am on my 7th Season with Rangers, new patch applied. A few leagues and cups under my belt, a few good runs in Europe and a bit of money in the bank. Got a reputation that is persuading some bigger name players to try the Scottish league, and all seem's well. My first 18 league games that season have been unbeaten, only 4 goals conceded and my top 2 strikers are averaging almost 2 goals a game each.

I see that the new patch is out and am enjoying my game so much i don't worry about applying it right away (i wish i had kept it like that). The new patch goes on and disaster strikes. My team concede 18 goals in the nex 10 games, i have only won 2 of them and drawn 2. I have conceded an own goal in 6 of the games (having conceded no own goals in the previous 7 seasons of play!!!). My board are moaning on about a result that happened in the first week of the season and how they are not happy with my performance, my players have turned into depressed lemmings who's morale is always rock bottom. I can't get rid of anyone as no-one want's them, and i can't sign anyone as apparently offering £30million for a goalkeeper rated at £6million isn't enough, although the computer AI sign's him for £7million the following day (i have no history with the other club or manager, and the goalkeeper was in a lower rated league). And to top it all off, i am promptly sacked.

As said in the forums, best to start a fresh game after installing a new patch (since it has ruined my current one, i have no choice). So i start afresh, and look forward to a new game. Spend all my money singing the best players in the league, whilst managing to get a few high earners off the wage bill (for nothing as usual, only to find an English team picks them up and they are worth twice as much as they were at Rangers). My new game is even worse than the last, and i have retired before reaching the end of the season.

I have now became so fed up with spending time building a team only for it to be completely ruined by one stupid bug or another that i think it might be time to jack in Football Manager for good. Given that there are no quality alternatives on the market, it seems i might have to give up on Football Manager sims all together, but until the developers can start putting the game together without stupid flaws which ruin the game on an almost constant basis, i can't see me buying Football Manager 2009. Then again, why would they care, it's only 1 person's £25.

I am usually manager of Rangers.

It's rare to gat anything like a players value when selling. Most of the time you cannot guve them away. Off they go to an Englisg team and are soon worth double his Rangers value.

There are not many players at the current level of Rangers players, and with a little potential, that are willing to sign so you end up with the same players coming in most games. You end up signing promising youngsters.

Tha amount of goals conceded and scored from cornera is silly but how can you avoid using it? After all the game is about defeating the AI.

Cousin is a great example of what I'm talking about. In a few games of FM I've not even been able to give him away and he's sat out his contract taking up valuable resources. This of course is the same player Fulham were desperate to get for £3M up until last week.

Players are underrated. Naismith is -8. Possibly the best young player in Scotland. 160 minimum should be his PA. If I change him to -9 I feel like I'm cheating though.

Ferguson is the best Scottish player of his generation. It appears he's not fit to lace Darren Fletchers boots in this game.

Against the odds in one game I reached a CL final but lost. Instead of praise the board went in a huff, disappointed even into the following season that we lost. Okay it's disappointing but where's the praise?

Reputations in Europe count more than the ability of your team. It's very difficult to beat English teams even when you build up an excellent team. The game is very biased in favour of the English league and national team. I wonder what nationality the makers are?

There are other issues. I doubt leagues outside of the EPL get as much consideration though.

I also notice that Huttons stats have significantly increased since his transfer to Spurs. Did he improve on the plane to London?

I've also been playing the game since CM1 and I'm tired of people telling me that I'm fick because I find the modern game too complicated. It's all those b****y sliders on the tactics screen that do me in. Maybe one day I will do what they tell me and go and play something easier, like "Molecular Scientist Manager 2010"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sad Git:

Maybe one day I will do what they tell me and go and play something easier, like "Molecular Scientist Manager 2010" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. I know what you mean. I like tinkering with the tactics but having twenty different clicks for passing etc is not a simulation of the real life game at all.

FM needs a complete overhaul. Starting from scratch, so that all the headaches caused by how tweaking "this" will affect "that" (in the match engine for example), and the compromises that have to be made as a result, are not so big an issue anymore.

Current Ability should be scrapped, and there should just be fixed attributes for each player when the game starts, and Potential Ability which will make those attributes rise relative to their assigned potential. For regens, several thousand different "starting-off" templates could be produced, assigned to each regen (or "Fred") randomly, but always fitting their natural position.

I think something like that would take care of the High Physical Stats = Low Technical Stats (and vice versa) problem for regens.

And an "unsackable" option, for those who wish to use it, would definitely be good.

I accepted the bugs as being definitive with no hope for a 8.0.3, so using FM Modifier is so longer a problem of cheating or not cheating as I use it only to correct the bugs, not players or staff. I get no money from CL from matches in Swiss League, this is not because I use bad tactics and I'm stupid, but because it's a bug, something that doesn't work as it is meant to. So why should I care if I use a game modifier to correct what will never be? Stop moaning and cope with what's available and trick the game. Hopefully there's a FM Modifier, otherwise I would have stopped playing for a long time.

My game is sabotaged every transfer window by big teams, that are “interested†in buying my players. You know, I played it fair at the end of the first season, allowing the player to leave and setting a fee price after I failed to convince him to stay, but he never received any offers from the clubs that where presumably interested in purchasing him. I’m playing with Servette, and by that time I just finished on top of the 2nd division and was waiting for the next season to start. You can’t consider Servette is some big club that will have great youngsters and yet I receive offers for players of good potential but than will probably never be stars from clubs like Juventus !!! What the… do they care to purchase crappy honest 1 division players from an obscure club when they’re already buying all the wonderkids available each year?

Well, I didn’t waited to get an acceptable answer from SI, so as I love the game, but don’t want to go crazy because outside English championships nothing has been 100% tested and this is true in the patches as well, I’m now using FM Modifier, whenever a stupid destabilized by some idiot AI, managing a club we don’t even reach the foot of occurs. I launch FM Modifier “Inspire Team†and voilà go into hell, whenever I play a CL match and should get some money because I get a good result but I don’t receive the money because it doesn’t work, and is a bug, and SI official attitude about is: “If we don’t answer, the post goes bottom, everyone forgets about it and the guy’s pi**ed of, coping with it or going with it.â€, so I add myself the money I should get. And no more worries, no one cares, I don’t neither anymore, FM Modifier is here that’s great!

I just bought 3 guinea pigs because the last patch is really a bit crappy - sorry

Can't win a game with 8.02

That’s bizarre, except the bugs I’m talking about above, that are bugs because of a lack of commitment from the beta testers when bug tracking in other leagues but the English ones is needed, most match engine bugs have been wiped out. I know you’ll go crazy but starting a new game, or applying a patch the right moment like when you move clubs to avoid match engine changes of having an impact on your game is more than recommended to get really rid of the major bugs.

How many more damn threads are we going to have going on about the same thing al the time?

It is not the game, nor the patch. For all the people moaning, you can bet there are a lot more not complaining and enjoying the game. As fr conceding, superkeepers, can't score or can't win...

6 defeats and 2nd best defence in league.

Here

1 defeat and best defence in league.

Here

So, if I and others can win games, and not leak goals like Newcastle, then it is not a game issue but a human issue. You want to call it a brag then fine go ahead, I'm slowly losing my interest coming to this forum due to all the whines and moans. Try to spend some time understanding the game before blaming it for your own inadequencies.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

How many more damn threads are we going to have going on about the same thing al the time?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a more pertinent question would be "how many times are you going to make the same post in response to people complaining"?

if you're losing interest with the forum then surely the answer is not to read threads that clearly state in the title that they contain complaints about the game?

at the end of the day everyone is bitching and moanig but you will all buy fm 09 because it will be better than this one and this has been great for most people so the next one with the few bugs ironed wil be marvelous

Hi al23, if you think i am just moaning and not coping with what is available, you obviously didn't pay any attention to what my post said. And if you are quite happy to spend all that time having to use a modifier to get a game to do what it should do by itself then more full you. What is the point in playing the game at all if you are just modifying it. If i didn't want to enjoy the game, i could go into the editor, set Rangers to win the league for the next 100 years and save myself the bother of actually playing the game.

As for Mavriab, if you don't want to know about any more threads talking about problems with the game, then don't read posts which have topics relating to it. As for suggesting i am inadequate at playing the game, if you had actually read the post, you would have noticed i had no problem with the game prior to the post. If you are going to be ignorant enough to insult someone, at least make sure you have actually read their point properly.

For turn it up 11, i'm afraid to say it's unlikely i will buy the next game, and if i did, it would only be after at least one patch has been released, in which case i'd be better waiting for the following year and so on.

As for all others, thanks for your reasoned thoughts and opinions. I don't particularly like slagging the developers who obviously spend a lot of time building the best game of it's kind on the market, i just wish more extensive testing was done, so that i wasn't paying money to do their testing for them.

i have no idea why people are complaining so much, is it really that hard with some teams? i'm managing villareal and started with only a 6 million transfer budget and im doing fine. I dont know why it is that people seem to have trouble.

Is it that much more difficult in the scottish league with rangers?

Hi jeeves, i don't think it is specifically Rangers in the Scottish league that is much more difficult. As mentioned previously, the player attributes are pretty under-rated in comparison how they should be. I know that this is all down to personal opinion, but guys like Carlos Cuellar in real life has been one of the most consistant and best players in the league this year. He has pace, power, speed, good header of the ball and is a good passer. In the game these are not much better than players at teams much further down the league.

I only mention Rangers as they were the team i was managing when my game went belly-up

The 8.0.2 patch is so pathetic I have reverted back to 8.0.

I find that the people who make FM fix one error but then another one pops up. I understand that the game is very hard to make but please just take a look at CM2008 , I know i'll get a few comments along the lines of...

"This is FM , Not CM"

Or

"Shut Up Loser , You Suck"

But you need to improve the match engine

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The new patch goes on and disaster strikes. My team concede 18 goals in the nex 10 games, i have only won 2 of them and drawn 2. I have conceded an own goal in 6 of the games (having conceded no own goals in the previous 7 seasons of play!!!). My board are moaning on about a result that happened in the first week of the season and how they are not happy with my performance, my players have turned into depressed lemmings who's morale is always rock bottom. I can't get rid of anyone as no-one want's them, and i can't sign anyone as apparently offering £30million for a goalkeeper rated at £6million isn't enough, although the computer AI sign's him for £7million the following day (i have no history with the other club or manager, and the goalkeeper was in a lower rated league). And to top it all off, i am promptly sacked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if you had actually read the post, you would have noticed i had no problem with the game prior to the post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems to me like you have a big problem...

And as for not reading posts like this, virtually every thread on here at te moment turns into a thread similar to this, thus why I question my sanity at keep coming back here, let alone actually responding to you again, but then maybe I retort to replies when 'ignorance' and 'insults' are uttered in my general direction. Please do tell me how I was insulting? If what I said was insulting then you should really wake up to how horrible the real world is outside your litle cushioned comfort zone of your home.

Again, more people have no issues than those who do, so logic implies that it is not a game issue but a human one. If you find that insulting then so be it. I wont be back to tis thread, so reply only if you feel it necessary.

Hi Mavriab,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Again, more people have no issues than those who do, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is the case, then why as you put it is

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> virtually every thread on here at te moment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does this not indicate, quite a few people do have problems with the game?

Anyway, i am not on here to make an issue with you, all i am trying to say is, if a post contains topics which annoy/bore you then do as everyone else does, and simply ignore them.

Colin w im on your side totally,ive had big problems AFTER the new patch was installed.

Now im Weymouth,in the conference,i get promoted in the second season,through the playoffs.My third season sees me finish 17 in league 2,and all is going ok,im not winning games all the time,i think i lost more than i won even.Now the patch!!

With the patch im either losing by being outplayed,or the game is even,but the oppo scores with almost every single shot on target!I lose almost every single game,players that had done ok and well before are now total rubbish.Ive made no changes to tactics,but my team seems to have changed totally,to one which is not effective in any department.Whatever small changes i make to OI,sliders and mentality,have no effect,it just seems like the team have changed overnight,to one which is much worse than previous.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ferguson is the best Scottish player of his generation. It appears he's not fit to lace Darren Fletchers boots in this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes he was a mighty force at Blackburn. While Fletcher plays for Man Utd. Ferguson is mince.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flooter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ferguson is the best Scottish player of his generation. It appears he's not fit to lace Darren Fletchers boots in this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes he was a mighty force at Blackburn. While Fletcher plays for Man Utd. Ferguson is mince. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're either a Tim or a Man Utd fan?

Certainly not a neutral or a Scotland fan. Fletcher is vastly over-rated.

Actually thinking about it you must be a Tim because even Man U fans dont rate him that highly.

That Scott Brown's some player eh?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The new patch goes on and disaster strikes. My team concede 18 goals in the nex 10 games, i have only won 2 of them and drawn 2. I have conceded an own goal in 6 of the games (having conceded no own goals in the previous 7 seasons of play!!!). My board are moaning on about a result that happened in the first week of the season and how they are not happy with my performance, my players have turned into depressed lemmings who's morale is always rock bottom. I can't get rid of anyone as no-one want's them, and i can't sign anyone as apparently offering £30million for a goalkeeper rated at £6million isn't enough, although the computer AI sign's him for £7million the following day (i have no history with the other club or manager, and the goalkeeper was in a lower rated league). And to top it all off, i am promptly sacked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if you had actually read the post, you would have noticed i had no problem with the game prior to the post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems to me like you have a big problem...

And as for not reading posts like this, virtually every thread on here at te moment turns into a thread similar to this, thus why I question my sanity at keep coming back here, let alone actually responding to you again, but then maybe I retort to replies when 'ignorance' and 'insults' are uttered in my general direction. Please do tell me how I was insulting? If what I said was insulting then you should really wake up to how horrible the real world is outside your litle cushioned comfort zone of your home.

Again, more people have no issues than those who do, so logic implies that it is not a game issue but a human one. If you find that insulting then so be it. I wont be back to tis thread, so reply only if you feel it necessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maviarab,

Do you log onto the forum, just to wait for people to air their own problems, feelings or opinions just to shoot them down because you personally don't agree, if you don't agree, try being constructive instead of replying with the same answer.

I tell you what, why don't you just click the "back" button if you are sick of reading other peoples rants or raves.

I have a degree of sympathy here, but not a huge amount.

The patch changed the match engine. So there's no guarantee that either your tactic will be as effective as it was or that your players will play the same way.

Is it frustrating? Yes, but considering the same thing happens each and every time a patch is released it's hardly unexpected, is it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coop:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flooter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ferguson is the best Scottish player of his generation. It appears he's not fit to lace Darren Fletchers boots in this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes he was a mighty force at Blackburn. While Fletcher plays for Man Utd. Ferguson is mince. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're either a Tim or a Man Utd fan?

Certainly not a neutral or a Scotland fan. Fletcher is vastly over-rated.

Actually thinking about it you must be a Tim because even Man U fans dont rate him that highly.

That Scott Brown's some player eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brown is gash runs around a lot with no end product.

I am neither a tim a *** or a manc.

So you say on 8.0.0 you had a problem with too many goals from corners?

Interesting because i thought that was only on 8.0.2 with specific tactics.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by asshole182:

So you say on 8.0.0 you had a problem with too many goals from corners?

Interesting because i thought that was only on 8.0.2 with specific tactics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i suspect it was a typo, in 8.0.0 80% of goals from corners were disallowed.

Wow, yet another thread saying how unplayable 802 is.

Tactics.

Tactics.

Tactics.

Your 801 tactics don't usually work with the 802 patch. Read the forum.

Board confidence: yes, it needs fixing, but it's workable.

Transfers: unrealistic, yes, but again - workable. Plenty of posts on that.

Scottish player values? Come on; whenever an English club gets involved it immediately skews the values. Admittedly not as much as on the game, but it happens.

Small clubs with good players annoyed at losing them to bigger clubs? It happens! A lot! In the game and in real life, the reputation of a league - not just a club - will affect players' desire to stay/sign. In France, for example, they've had Champ League semi-finalists and even a finalist in several recent years, but can you see the outstanding talent for that league remaining in France for very long? Drogba, Essien, et al.

I know the tone of the OP wasn't a moan, but it's just repeating stuff that's been on here for the last month or so.

Its not just tactics.....theres DEFINETELY a large random element to the game, hence why people can have the same players, tactics and style of managing and have very different results, otherwise whats the point in the game? What happens though is some people get screwed and others get heaps of 'nice' luck. Both sides get polarized to the point that those that are succesful call the others moaners and those that are unsuccesful call the others fanbois.

Just to point out: I'm one of the ones who gets the 'nice' luck, I get screwed in certain games sure but generally over a season I'm successful. That's not to say that theres nothing I dislike about the game far from it but even with all the stupidness its still a good game. I just take umbrage at all the people who are self proclaimed tactical genius' (except those that are and there are quite a few) because they won the league with Man Citeh or something.

Earmack... i agree. The game is too random at the moment. Having good players is not that important in FM08. Instead it is all about finding the perfect combination of team talks and slider settings. To me that is just not fun.

So far, I have had both success and failure in FM08 so I am not a moaner.

You should never have to read the entire tactics forum just to play this game successfully. The game should give more info about what you are doing wrong. I have watched full games in the match engine but still can't see where I am going wrong with my tactics, when I lose. Even when I win I don't know what I am doing right... it is frustrating.

I don't like to come on here and moan, but the people who are complaining about 8.02 and not doing well seem to be the kind of people who want a diablo tactic. A tactic that will work, no matter what the patch.

I was always of the view that with every patch, you needed to tear down your tactic and formation and start again, because each patch was different. I have had none of the problems that other people have highlighted simply, I feel, because I have treated each patch as a new game.

8.00 was an absolute stinker, 8.01 was a massive improvement and 8.02 more of an improvement still! Can't wait for FM09

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OHaving good players is not that important in FM08. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forking out billions and then some for the supposedly best players left and right like crazy doesn't seem to get anyone very far in real life football as well. I could name a couple of not so very known lower league sides, but to illustrate the point further with a team known around the globe pretty much entirelly: recent years Real Madrid anyone?

Yeah, it's random. But that's football. One can plan for long term success, and you'll need a good plan for that, as well as perseverance, continuity and the brightes of ideas, but for everything else, you'll never, ever know. You can have what is considered the best eleven ever to grace the pitch, and yet your lads could still go out on penalties in the round of the last 16.

The tactical interface could need a bit of an overhaul, I agree. And the manual doesn't really cover much of anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Svenc:

I could name a couple of not so very known lower league sides </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hull?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Gaffovski:

For regens, several thousand different "starting-off" templates could be produced, assigned to each regen (or "Fred") randomly, but always fitting their natural position. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realise that Henry spent ages on the right wing? Or that Sol Campbell started his Spurs career as a Striker? Maybe you've heard that at Monaco (prior to his Arsenal career), Petit was a left back? Kolo toure didn't play centerback, despite insisting it was his preferred position?

Why should their starting attributes ALWAYS suit their natural position? Surely some players tend to be strong in areas away from their natural position, so a top manager can get more out of them by retraining and repositioning them?

The one thing I'm really cheesed off about is that nothing was done about board confidence in the latest patch. Maybe it would just have been too big a fix to get done in time for a patch. I don't know. But it seems the board confidence feature is absolutely shot to pieces in my opinion.

The problem with that game is that it's not intuitive enough. If there's something wrong with your tactics, it's not obvious what the problem is, and you can spend a whole evening tinkering until you stumble across the correct formation/settings to counter the tactics the AI is employing against you.

We get told that to play a fast game you need direct passing, yet there's plenty of tactics available that use short passing/quick tempo to great success. Stuff like this just isn't obvious.

If these forums weren't around, with people ready to offer advice and tactics that they've tinkered with over time, people might not be so willing to keep playing the game.

The game itself offers no advice. If your star striker is suddenly missing tonnes of easy chances when the rest of the team is playing well and everyone has excellent morale, there's no indication from the game as to why this is happening. Instead, you have to come online and talk to people to try and find a solution.

For instance, it's suggested that you might need to play at a slower tempo to up your conversion rate. Watching the game, this isn't obvious, because your midfielders are all playing at a high tempo and it isn't affecting their passing/decisions/etc, the defence is behaving as you'd expect; why should the forwards not continue as they were?

The game gives you no clue as to what the problem might be, and it's very frustrating.

Anyone know if the high scoring is just on patched continued games rather than new ones?

Just had a 6-6 draw with Ipswich as Exeter which is a bit crazy!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If these forums weren't around, with people ready to offer advice and tactics that they've tinkered with over time, people might not be so willing to keep playing the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sadly, quite possibly true.

I do think that the manual should perhaps explain things tactically in a little more detail, maybe an "online" manual that gives better "pro's" and "con's" advice for different tactical settings.

I post in and read through the Tactics and Training forums on a daily basis. There are countless new posts looking for "Diablo-esque" super tactics all the time. This suggests to me that most of the casual users simply want to win at all costs and are not interested in the deeper tactical side of the game, which in essence, is one of the biggest parts of simulating football management.

Many people also don't have a very good grasp of tactics in the real world, or in FM. Most of the proven successful tactics are both simple and realistic.

We're always happy to help people over in Tactics and Training, but unfortunately and increasingly, many of the moans and rants that you see here, are also echoed in the other forums. Many times, people rant, yet ask for advice and help, but then when it's not instantly effective (like after one match!), not a DIABLO tactic, or simply don't listen to the advice or help provided, they continue ranting that the game is crap etc...

I think that inevitably with a game of this magnitude, there's always going to be flaws. I'm afraid that it's just something we have to learn to accept. More often than not with the patches, most problems are solved, thanks to the fact that SI do listen to their client base.

For those delusional enough to think that this game will ever be perfect, I would say that it's like being a Man Utd fan and expecting them to win every match 5-0. It won't happen.

This is a football management simulation. It's not an arcade game, or a pick-up & play type game as of old. Perhaps people need to understand that more before they buy the next release of FM. There are plenty of "easier" alternatives for those who have neither the time or the patience to to play FM.

The amusing thing is, judging by the length of time many of those who complain have been members of the forums, is that they're back every year having bought the latest release. Why? Only they can truthfully answer that question, but I strongly suspect it's because having "tried" the alternatives, they miss the depth and challenge, amongst many other things, that FM continually delivers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a football management simulation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the way FM's sliders work, if it was a Flight Simulator then raising the flaps would lower the landing gear, unless you have the throttles set to TOGO, and then it would flush the rear toilet.

On some games Hutton's stats were good, and I used to buy him for Spurs pre RL transfer.

Heath

Even the tactical gurus admit the formation of choice 442, is not stable and is hard work, the one offered as std appears to be crap, although oddly also appears to give best pre season results.

You then have AI park the bus with long ball to clinical striker who your Ass Man would tell you to offload, or 424 when the worst team in league put in Superhuman performance for last 10mins. However, over a season the results usually work out fair compared to RL.

Then there was the Taiwo incident.

The game needs some pre set tactics that the first user can use to obtain decent results with a top quality side.

If you want "Diablo-esque" Kimz V2, but must users probably enjoy these tactics for 5mins, and even Fiora is not the answer. A bog standard 442 for defend, normal and attack would be good for starters.

It's a Great Game and your posts are always useful, but the Bible needs simplification until advanced user level.