Renaming 'Unproven' reputation

A while back I reported an error in the User Interface with sorting order in Staff Search, as when sorting by reputation, it went 'Obscure' -> 'Local' -> 'Unproven' -> 'Regional' ... etc. (thread is here)

I thought that was a wrong sort order, as I believed Unproven to be worse than Local .. maybe even worse that Obscure.

It seems the sort order is not wrong, and that Unproven reputation is indeed a higher reputation than Local. I then suggested renaming Unproven to something else, as I think it is misleading.

Bardi, who was responding to my request, said that the feedback he got for the three lowest reputation levels were:

- "Obscure" is the lowest as it means hardly anyone will have heard of you

- "Local" is slightly higher as some people will have heard about you

- "Unproven" means your heard of as a manager but haven't proven yourself as a manager who would jump up to "regional" which is the next level

But suggested that I come up with a better name for Unproven.

Now I am twisting my brain to find a good word to indicate a reputation between Local and Regional, and all I have been able to come up with is 'Established'. But then again, english is not my native language.

Now my thinking is that Unproven is someone of really low reputation, maybe marginally above Obscure ... though I think the cover about the same. While using Established instead is someone who have established himself as a manager/coach/scout/whatever with a fair amount of rep., but maybe not yet widely known across a larger area.

But maybe some of you FM'ers out there might have a better word to use?? ... let me hear your (serious) suggestions ... or maybe if you think Unproven is just right, give me an explanation as to why you think so.

Any help is appreciated

I think it's just right.

Unproven would be say Pep Guardiolia or Alan Shearer when they took up jobs at the Camp Nou and St James Park as first time managers...you could hardly describe them as obscure, regional, or local in reputation, no??

They would be higher than that....i.e. 'unproven'??

I think it's just right.

Unproven would be say Pep Guardiolia or Alan Shearer when they took up jobs at the Camp Nou and St James Park as first time managers...you could hardly describe them as obscure, regional, or local in reputation, no??

They would be higher than that....i.e. 'unproven'??

They would be National at least, right?? .... I mean Unproven is less than Regional, which I am sure neither should be below. If all first time managers were to be 'Unproven' then shouldn't that put them under Obscure? .. and then Shearer could work his way up to National at some point??

I think that if I set up my Past Football Experience to be 'Semi-professional', I already have 'Regional' reputation, even though it is my first managing job.

Also the developers define the reputation levels as whether people have heard of you or not. I don't think there are many footballers in Europe (at least) who have never heard of Shearer.

You can call them first-timers i guess. Don't really know.

They would be National at least, right?? .... I mean Unproven is less than Regional, which I am sure neither should be below. If all first time managers were to be 'Unproven' then shouldn't that put them under Obscure? .. and then Shearer could work his way up to National at some point??

I think that if I set up my Past Football Experience to be 'Semi-professional', I already have 'Regional' reputation, even though it is my first managing job.

Also the developers define the reputation levels as whether people have heard of you or not. I don't think there are many footballers in Europe (at least) who have never heard of Shearer.

Hmm, not sure. As players Shearer and Guardiola would be well known in football around Europe; but as managers "Unproven" which to me, is higher than regional etc.

unproven is fine as far as im concerned. As stated by yourself, it means that the manager is known, but is unproven as a manager and while the obscure etc are also unproven, they have not been heard of so people dont know if they are unproven or not. I dont see why it needs to change

Works for me.

Seems to be just for well known players once they hang up their boots. For example, Zanetti becomes a coach quite soon and this is a new job for him so he can't claim any fame in the role but equally you couldn't say he is Obscure or Local reputation only. In fact he could be world class, but from day 1 he is Unproven.

To me "Unproven" is a very confusing and generic adjective...

And it doesn't really do much to indicate the reputation of a manager, especially when the other levels refer to some sort of "geographical prestige".

Shearer and Guardiola might have been "Unproven" managers, but not in the way the game system seem to hint... If "Unproven" is slightly above "Local", there is NO WAY we could say Pep was just a little more famous then the manager of a random non-league club.

Otherwise he wouldn't have been hired to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world, wouldn't he?

After all the game does set your reputation at a higher level if your past experience is "Former International Player"

"Unproven" to me just means "we don't know yet how good he can be as a manager", but that can apply to John Doe who has been a manager for the local Sunday League team or to a recently-retired World Cup finalist.

So I do think Stormen has a point here... People will have heard of a former int'l player turned manager anyway. If not for his managerial skills, at least for his career as a player.

The easier way out, without having to think to an intermediate step between "Local" and "Regional" ["Provincial" maybe?] would be just readjusting the scale, having "Unknown" as lowest level, then "Obscure", "Local", "Regional", "National" etc... and getting rid of the generic "Unproven"

unproven is fine as far as im concerned. As stated by yourself, it means that the manager is known, but is unproven as a manager and while the obscure etc are also unproven, they have not been heard of so people dont know if they are unproven or not. I dont see why it needs to change

But have I only proven myself once I reach Regional?? ... and setting my Past Experience to Semi-pro (without manager experience) I am already Regional, thus past Unproven. I think Local to be proven but just not well known (yet) .. so going from locally known and maybe many years of management, I suddenly become Unproven?

Maybe RBKalle's suggestion is the better one ... just readjust the lowest three to be Unproven -> Obscure -> Local ... and then onwards.

RBKalle try to think of Unproven as World Famous but with no experience in the role.

Yes, the other reputations are geo based, but how else would you describe a newly retired Ryan Giggs? Continental? World Class? Not when he hasn't ever worked the job in his life.

RBKalle try to think of Unproven as World Famous but with no experience in the role.

Yes, the other reputations are geo based, but how else would you describe a newly retired Ryan Giggs? Continental? World Class? Not when he hasn't ever worked the job in his life.

But then again you have Ryan Giggs on par with the new guy in charge at, say, FC United... Even though in terms of managerial experience they're both unproven/little known, Ryan's career as footballer surely puts him miles ahead of the Other Guy...

After all, "unproven" retired players like Rijkaard, Van Basten, Shearer, Guardiola, Ferrara, Mancinii and Donadoni landed prestigious jobs DESPITE them having less expreience than any random Tier 8 manager.

How would I describe former (Top) Players turned managers? I think "National" would suffice for regular former internationals.

Currently "Unproven" makes as much sense as having "Chubby" as a boxing category...

Also, i'm not happy with the automatic option. If you choose say, FC Bayern, Barcelona, Man Utd, or any big club, i get a continental rep when i should get an unproved.

Sure, everybody knows who's coaching Bayern etc, but that just it, i'm famous, but i need to prove myself. Automatic should never make you continental or national.