Pre-Match Advice/Scouting has diminished purpose in FM11...

First of all, let me say, I don't consider this to be a Bug per se, but it's different from what I've noticed in FM10.

I'm nearing the end of my second season with Grasshoppers Club Zurich, which is a mid-reputation club in the Swiss League. I have NOT bought any superstars into my side, although I have some great Under-21 scouted talents in my side like Martin Galván, Torric & Pichu Atienza. But, in the end, it's a youngish side, with many of the original players retained from the start of the game. I spent my first season experimenting with Tactics, and found a couple great ones, which by now, I have perfected in Match Prep.

Now, no matter who I play, I end up beating them. And I never change my tactics. I just beat Inter, Atletico Madrid, ManU, Chelsea & Barca in successive stages of Champions League and according to my Scout and my Backroom Advice section they all had pretty different styles of play. The thing worth noting is, I did not change anything at all in my tactics for any of the matches. I do sometimes though use touchline instructions corresponding to the scoreline in the match. My team is composed in such a way that every position/role has two players that can play in it.

This leads me to conclude that no matter how good your opponent is, or how they play football, as long as your Match prep is 'Fluid' in all areas, you've got a good chance of winning. I'm not sure if it's just me, or has anyone else noticed something similar... It's just made the game a bit easy for now...:confused:

I've got slightly different thoughts in this area... first let me say that most of my observations are based on MLS seasons so it could just be the poor MLS AI causing some of it.

But after the first half of the first season it seems like most of the good teams all use the same basic concepts, possession style passing, draw opponents in deep and counter attack. Even teams without fast strikers have the same counter attack thing. Seems like the only thing different on my scouting reports are the formations teams use.

That being said much of the more in-depth tactical advice is pretty spotty as none of my staff are really good tactically, but in my first season I just had to run a basic 4-4-2 straight or diamond with possession and push up 'shouts' and won most games pretty easy.

However now in my second season my team is winning coming out even but not comfortably like the season before. I'm getting purely lucky to be honest with some 3-4 first team players get ratings under 6.3 each game. Even had a friendly during a week off with a REALLY low team and my guys lost 1-0, I made the friendly as a chance to build more confidence etc and they played really poorly. I can't imagine it's just tactics and it's the same starting group as the season before so it's not like they don't know each other, but they just can't put in any kind of consistent performance.

now even though I only added 2-3 new players tot he team my match prep formations dropped to basically nothing again, however they are on 'competent' in all areas now, so if they are just having crap games because of that then the match prep isn't the nice feature I first thought. But what else could it be, unless it's just huge amounts of crap luck and the random factor is tossing too many bad performances out. Considering I've gotten more injuries this season maybe it's just luck, but it's frustrating as hell watching your team get rolled by amateurs and struggling against teams they coasted through the last season.

I've got slightly different thoughts in this area... first let me say that most of my observations are based on MLS seasons so it could just be the poor MLS AI causing some of it.

But after the first half of the first season it seems like most of the good teams all use the same basic concepts, possession style passing, draw opponents in deep and counter attack. Even teams without fast strikers have the same counter attack thing. Seems like the only thing different on my scouting reports are the formations teams use.

That being said much of the more in-depth tactical advice is pretty spotty as none of my staff are really good tactically, but in my first season I just had to run a basic 4-4-2 straight or diamond with possession and push up 'shouts' and won most games pretty easy.

However now in my second season my team is winning coming out even but not comfortably like the season before. I'm getting purely lucky to be honest with some 3-4 first team players get ratings under 6.3 each game. Even had a friendly during a week off with a REALLY low team and my guys lost 1-0, I made the friendly as a chance to build more confidence etc and they played really poorly. I can't imagine it's just tactics and it's the same starting group as the season before so it's not like they don't know each other, but they just can't put in any kind of consistent performance.

now even though I only added 2-3 new players tot he team my match prep formations dropped to basically nothing again, however they are on 'competent' in all areas now, so if they are just having crap games because of that then the match prep isn't the nice feature I first thought. But what else could it be, unless it's just huge amounts of crap luck and the random factor is tossing too many bad performances out. Considering I've gotten more injuries this season maybe it's just luck, but it's frustrating as hell watching your team get rolled by amateurs and struggling against teams they coasted through the last season.

No offence, but it seems this has more to do with inferior MLS AI than the point I was trying to make in my earlier post. Barca, Inter, MU are top teams which all have distinctive styles, and there should be no way that they could all be conquered by the same tactic, and certainly not by a relatively inferior team. Also, my match prep has stayed within 'Fluid' levels almost since three months into the season, maybe because I only add 1-2 players at a time, and make sure they "Fit" well into my tactic.

As for the things you're experiencing, there could be a number of reasons for that. Maybe you're changing your tactics too often. Maybe you've set the Match Prep on 'Very Low' (that shouldn't really be a problem, since I keep it on Very Low and it still fills up). Maybe you're using Match Prep for 3 tactics (the fewer tactics you train, the faster Match Prep fills up). Maybe you just need to design better tactics, modelling them around the players you have. Maybe you need to lower your training workload and give your team a rest day every now 'n then, to minimize Injuries. Maybe, you need to raise player morale through team-talks, press confs. and commenting on their performances. Maybe, you just need better players. Maybe, it's just bad luck! There could be N number of reasons really...

Heh... Maybe I wasn't totally clear.

But my style of playing my team has pretty much been the same as you... I prefer 4-4-2 diamond formation and the only reason I play 4-4-2 plain is if I don't have my key AMC on the pitch. Those are the only 2 formations I use and I do nothing with tactics other then set the entire team to rare long shots, I set the players roles and that's it. Then I'll use a couple sideline shouts based on the specifics of my opponents, like if it's a narrow field, or push up/drop back depending. I never even look at half the shouts or even go tot he team instructions in my tactics.

So that aspect seems to be exactly the same as you are saying, it's just a different group of teams... yeah all the teams you mention of different styles of play, every team does yes even in the MLS. The thing is the AI as a whole isn't as dynamic as might be expected because there seems to be such little variation in AI tactics, basically you can look at the players and know how they are going to play without even needing any reports almost.

But as I said, that's how I did it the first season and in my time playing FM10. I didn't have to make any variation in my formation, tactics, roles, nothing. i just needed the right players out there on the pitch and let the match play while I watch, no changes during the match, I don't even look at the changes to opposition formations. I's start the match and watch then give my half time talk, watch again until my players got tired and replace the tired ones for someone the played the same position. The only times I ever changed anything noteworthy was if someone got a red card or if a player was having a bad game i'd sub him early. Other then that the matches were autopilot, it wasn't a test of tactics it was a test of the better players it seemed.

As for the change in my second season in FM11, I know you don't know me or what i know about the game, but rest assured everything you mentioned is not the issue. My players fit perfectly in the team or I wouldn't have had the success I did in the first season and as i said my first team hasn't changed at all, just have a few (3 to be exact) new players that got loaned out or are rotation players. I only train 2 formations in match prep and at average workload. Nothing at all has changed on my team from season 1 to season 2, but while most of my games they cruised through in the first season now they are completely inconsistent and every match is a nail biter. I think it's a combination of just dumb luck with 3-4 guys having a bad performance regularly (always different players mind), and the match prep... like I said the first team didn't change at all but my teams knowledge of the same formations went from accomplished in everything, fluid in a few, all the way back to the starting point again, zero's in most things and about 20% in the basics like formation, and my team was more sloppy at the start of the first season before I got that up.

So to sum up... your point about the need for tactical advise is correct in my eyes, who cares about tactical detail when our teams can beat whoever without ever needing to change our tactics, not to mention the AI can't adapt mid match it seems, had a fast striker get 3 goals in the first half with long passes behind the D that he ran onto. You'd think after 1 they'd adjust deeper, certainly after 2, but now... thing he actually had a 4th chance like that but the keeper stopped it. Just added on a side note that I'm experience some things inconsistent for me at the moment.

Bottom line, the tactical AI, regardless of league, seems suspect which gives us no reason to be dynamic with our own tactics.

Heh... Maybe I wasn't totally clear.

But my style of playing my team has pretty much been the same as you... I prefer 4-4-2 diamond formation and the only reason I play 4-4-2 plain is if I don't have my key AMC on the pitch. Those are the only 2 formations I use and I do nothing with tactics other then set the entire team to rare long shots, I set the players roles and that's it. Then I'll use a couple sideline shouts based on the specifics of my opponents, like if it's a narrow field, or push up/drop back depending. I never even look at half the shouts or even go tot he team instructions in my tactics.

So that aspect seems to be exactly the same as you are saying, it's just a different group of teams... yeah all the teams you mention of different styles of play, every team does yes even in the MLS. The thing is the AI as a whole isn't as dynamic as might be expected because there seems to be such little variation in AI tactics, basically you can look at the players and know how they are going to play without even needing any reports almost.

But as I said, that's how I did it the first season and in my time playing FM10. I didn't have to make any variation in my formation, tactics, roles, nothing. i just needed the right players out there on the pitch and let the match play while I watch, no changes during the match, I don't even look at the changes to opposition formations. I's start the match and watch then give my half time talk, watch again until my players got tired and replace the tired ones for someone the played the same position. The only times I ever changed anything noteworthy was if someone got a red card or if a player was having a bad game i'd sub him early. Other then that the matches were autopilot, it wasn't a test of tactics it was a test of the better players it seemed.

As for the change in my second season in FM11, I know you don't know me or what i know about the game, but rest assured everything you mentioned is not the issue. My players fit perfectly in the team or I wouldn't have had the success I did in the first season and as i said my first team hasn't changed at all, just have a few (3 to be exact) new players that got loaned out or are rotation players. I only train 2 formations in match prep and at average workload. Nothing at all has changed on my team from season 1 to season 2, but while most of my games they cruised through in the first season now they are completely inconsistent and every match is a nail biter. I think it's a combination of just dumb luck with 3-4 guys having a bad performance regularly (always different players mind), and the match prep... like I said the first team didn't change at all but my teams knowledge of the same formations went from accomplished in everything, fluid in a few, all the way back to the starting point again, zero's in most things and about 20% in the basics like formation, and my team was more sloppy at the start of the first season before I got that up.

So to sum up... your point about the need for tactical advise is correct in my eyes, who cares about tactical detail when our teams can beat whoever without ever needing to change our tactics, not to mention the AI can't adapt mid match it seems, had a fast striker get 3 goals in the first half with long passes behind the D that he ran onto. You'd think after 1 they'd adjust deeper, certainly after 2, but now... thing he actually had a 4th chance like that but the keeper stopped it. Just added on a side note that I'm experience some things inconsistent for me at the moment.

Bottom line, the tactical AI, regardless of league, seems suspect which gives us no reason to be dynamic with our own tactics.

I agree. Anyways, how can your match prep drop so much after a season? How long is the break between seasons? A longer break could mean a serious drop in Match prep.

Also, I read a post somewhere from an SI employee saying that Match Prep is currently modelled on a squad basis, i.e., even if you shuffle your players between First team and reserves/youth squad, the Match Prep will not change. Also, Reserves/youths don't undertake Match Prep training, only the first team does. And when you bring reserve/youth players into your first team, they benefit from the current levels of match prep. So, unless you've bought new players from outside the squad into your First team, the MP shouldn't be affected.

Finally, if it's none of the above, it may be a bug. I've heard of a couple bugs with the match prep already.

Hmm, my team was off for about 2 months if i remember correctly. Also remember this is MLS so there is no reserve or youth team, I'm thinking this is the problem. Because even if new players aren't starters and I'm just going to loan them out they are still put into the first team squad because it's the only squad.

So I'm thinking it's another of the many bugs to the MLS just because they didn't think it through from that perspective. Not finished a season with my Hereford or Arsenal season so don't only have full experience with MLS.