The key to consistant results?

Playing as Bury Town in the BSN, I have managed to find myself deep in relegation doo doo towards the back end of the season (21st). Although theres only 3 points in it at the moment.

Coming off the back of a few consecutive defeats, including a 4-1 in the previous game, I come up to a difficult fortnight. Corby (8th)(H) and Altrincham (3rd)(H), followed by a more winnable game in Stafford (15th)(A).

Making one slight tweak to my formation to try and make the defense more watertight, i pull one of my 3 CMs into the DMC role.

Corby game - 2-1 win, their goal a fluke 45 yard free kick in the 91st minute - great result.

Altrincham game - 6-1 win - me = shelshocked - have I just unlocked my teams potential?

Answer = NO. 3 consecutive defeats, 2-0, 2-0, 3-0 errr what??? :confused::confused:

I am now utterly baffled, teams morale has gone from Superb to poor in a matter of weeks, and best of all my strikers cant finish again.

How could I have kept the performances up? I played the exact same team for the first 2, only making changes in the 3rd due to signing a new GK and my top CB being out for 4 weeks

Any help would be appreciated as always,

dan_lcfc

A story mirrored by many.

FM11 may be realistic to the point where you must create individual tactics to counter-act every single player, which is just like real life, except we have ten minutes rather than a real week.

So your saying I should go into the pre match meeting and adjust to the other sides weaknesses? I never used to do that in FM10 because it seemed to disrupt my side rather than help them?

I'm not bragging but I've really found FM2011 easier than FM's past, haven't been down the leagues yet though.

Tactically speaking I've found a high defensive line works well on recent FM's, as IRL. Maybe try pushing your defence right up and close down a bit more, stop the opposition playing. Then you could try telling your wingers to swap position during the game, giving the other team something to think about. Also really look hard at your set pieces, they seem to really make a difference this year, I score many goals from them.

This is all generic info though and may not suit your particular team. Take my info, tweak it a bit and adapt it to your 11, post back how you get on.

Being quite reluctant to change the defensive line because most of the goals I conceded during the start of the season were long balls played over the top leaving one on ones, I put closing down more/with more aggressive tackiling.

Still getting no real consistancy in results but I seem to be conceding less, which is always a bonus.

In 20th 1 point from safety with 4 games to go. PLay 19th on the last day of the season - squeaky bum time!

I tend to have all midfielders and attackers on support, added to a high def line this tends to squeeze the midfield, giving the opposition much less time to play. I find it stops the high ball over the top, which is how the AI scores many of it's goals in my experience.

Personally I wouldn't have tackling on aggresive, too many fouls around the box. Also I have the def line much higher than closing down and tempo, which I have just over halfway, no need to go too gung ho, it's all about balance.

I've also found that tactics, whether my own or downloaded, seem to be "unlocked" by the opposition after a few games. After that, I seem to hit a wall and can't win anything.

The key to consistent results with the current ME is to play a very, very simple, non-complicated tactic. A basic pre-set 4-4-2 will win you a fair few without any modifications at all.

Sounds too good to be true but it is true! I'm actually waiting for a patch which makes tactical tinkering a bit more of a requirement.

So yes, the key - "keeping it simple".

But how do you beat the slingshot effect? It doesn't matter what tactic I'm using, the AI just shuts my team down after a couple of games. It's not even just the tactics. My players start ignoring loose balls, they clear balls to an enemy corner for the heck of it, they start missing 9/10 penalties and any advantage I happen to gain is met with an equalizer within 5 minutes.

Personally, my success has been built upon having an anchor-man in midfield.

You ARE getting consistent results - consistently losing!!!

At the beginning of the season I use one formation and put high workload into team blend in the match prep screen. At lower level I feel the players aren't smart enough to cope with more than one formation, and as Tubey says, you need to 'keep it simple'. If you're struggling, tweak the tactics but don't change the formation. Drop the D-line, close down more, change the roles - attack to support; support to defend. Play narrower - basically tighten up at the back and grind out a few 0-0s to get morale up. Like Roy Keane recognises, don't blast your players when they're already down; nurture their egos. When a player gets a bad rating, have a private chat and tell him you're resting him for the next game - it'll raise his morale. It's all a matter of paying attention to detail and asking yourself, 'What would a REAL manager do?'

The key to consistant results?

This might be one of the most important things in Football Manager 2011. I had a run of 10 won matches in a row with a very mediocre Danish side - then I lost 4-5 in a row. Stability is definetly important now!

You ARE getting consistent results - consistently losing!!!

At the beginning of the season I use one formation and put high workload into team blend in the match prep screen. At lower level I feel the players aren't smart enough to cope with more than one formation, and as Tubey says, you need to 'keep it simple'. If you're struggling, tweak the tactics but don't change the formation. Drop the D-line, close down more, change the roles - attack to support; support to defend. Play narrower - basically tighten up at the back and grind out a few 0-0s to get morale up. Like Roy Keane recognises, don't blast your players when they're already down; nurture their egos. When a player gets a bad rating, have a private chat and tell him you're resting him for the next game - it'll raise his morale. It's all a matter of paying attention to detail and asking yourself, 'What would a REAL manager do?'

Ive been using 4-3-3 at home and 4-5-1 away using the Match Prep to use both :S I thought thats what it was for???

Also its not a case of consistantly losing. Like I said, I can demolish teams and with the same tactic 7 days later it all goes to pot and they forget each others names, let alone how to play with each other...

Ive been using 4-3-3 at home and 4-5-1 away using the Match Prep to use both :S I thought thats what it was for???

That is what the match prep is for; however it's been discovered that teaching the squad to learn 2 formations take far longer than teaching one. For my squad it's taken 6 months to get the majority of the bars to fluid just sticking with team blend on one formation. If I tried to inculcate 2 and switch to other preparations such as attacking movement or defending set pieces, I don't think the thick little wassocks would ever learn anything.

I don't know how much more quickly a squad with high mental attributes learns, but at non-league level it really is a matter of K.I.S.S.

That is what the match prep is for; however it's been discovered that teaching the squad to learn 2 formations take far longer than teaching one. For my squad it's taken 6 months to get the majority of the bars to fluid just sticking with team blend on one formation. If I tried to inculcate 2 and switch to other preparations such as attacking movement or defending set pieces, I don't think the thick little wassocks would ever learn anything.

I don't know how much more quickly a squad with high mental attributes learns, but at non-league level it really is a matter of K.I.S.S.

However, I find match prepping 2 formations to be very important, as I often have to switch between 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 during a match for tactical reasons. Unless you're Barca, you can't have a team playing with only one tactic.

However, I find match prepping 2 formations to be very important, as I often have to switch between 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 during a match for tactical reasons. Unless you're Barca, you can't have a team playing with only one tactic.

That's you, but the OP and myself manage non-league sides where we have to work within severe limitations. It's not just Barca, part-time clubs often work with one formation.

By the way, I did say one FORMATION. I made it very clear that i change my TACTICS many times every match.

So your saying I should go into the pre match meeting and adjust to the other sides weaknesses? I never used to do that in FM10 because it seemed to disrupt my side rather than help them?

I maybe missed this earlier. I always do this - again, it's not changing the formation that my squad are learning and blending with, but tweaking things like playing narrow or direct. I use shouts too, so if I'm told the oppo score most of their goals in the first 15 minutes, I'll start with retain possession, counter, then later open up and attack them.

That's you, but the OP and myself manage non-league sides where we have to work within severe limitations. It's not just Barca, part-time clubs often work with one formation.

By the way, I did say one FORMATION. I made it very clear that i change my TACTICS many times every match.

As a lower-league side, one of the things I always do is try to get as many players as I can to play multiple positions. That's because I can't be limited to one formation. If I don't change formation and tactic at some point between 35 and 60 minutes, I'm gonna lose. Prepping two tactics is a must, and now that I'm setting my sights (finally) on Ligue 2, I find I'm prepping 3...

Remember, each part of the prep is interchangable. Your Tempo for your 4-4-2 Control will translate to your 4-5-1 Counter, as will your Width and all the other little (well, they're pretty big, really) progress bars. i.e., if you've prepped 4-4-2 Control and 4-5-1 Counter, you've also prepped 4-5-1 Control and 4-4-2 Counter.

So, when I prep 4-3-3 Attack, 4-1-2-1-2 Control, and 4-5-1 Counter, I've also prepped 4-3-3 Control and Counter, 4-1-2-1-2 Attack and Counter, and 4-5-1 Control and Attack. I have all the flexibility I need to adapt to anything the AI throws at me...

on fm11 consitancy really do seam to help, and maybe its better keeping things simple on lower levels, so far I have got Pompey promoted playing just one tactic (only tweaking long shoot setings of my striker, playing narrow and droping the holding player if I got one dude sent of, and on rare ocations shouting like a maniac at the team in order to catch up from a bad start), playing with defencive positioning as match prep after some early session disasters when i was trying to figure the basic's of the ME (after it messed over my perfectly fine fm10 and fm11 demo tactics), hence I lost 3 drew 2 and won only one of my 6 first league games, with only the easy early session cup wins keeping moral at decent level, befor stuff started to pick up

The key to consistant results is simple FMRTE

SSSGTroyer - yeh, i'm not really disagreeing. What I'm focussing on is getting one formation right, team fully blended first, before cracking a second formation. Otherwise, trying to do too much at once, they'll never learn plus get bad results and low morale.

I'm confident i can barnstorm L9 and L8, probably L7 with my current squad, so i have time to develop another formation or two before the big challenges kick in (that's why I started at the bottom). I's a question of gradual evolution, not revolution! But i definitely don't advice radical new tactics and formations to get out of an immediate hole of bad or inconsistent results, which is the original question. That's applying a long-term remedy to a short-term or immediate problem, and that never works.

A story mirrored by many.

FM11 may be realistic to the point where you must create individual tactics to counter-act every single player, which is just like real life, except we have ten minutes rather than a real week.

You can take as long as you like with FM though.

SSSGTroyer - yeh, i'm not really disagreeing. What I'm focussing on is getting one formation right, team fully blended first, before cracking a second formation. Otherwise, trying to do too much at once, they'll never learn plus get bad results and low morale.

I'm confident i can barnstorm L9 and L8, probably L7 with my current squad, so i have time to develop another formation or two before the big challenges kick in (that's why I started at the bottom). I's a question of gradual evolution, not revolution! But i definitely don't advice radical new tactics and formations to get out of an immediate hole of bad or inconsistent results, which is the original question. That's applying a long-term remedy to a short-term or immediate problem, and that never works.

That sounds good in theory, but the stupid way SI implements match prep almost forces me to go with more than one at a time. Because if you stop prepping one to work on another, the squad forgets everything they learned almost instantly. Heck, once I made the mistake of changing the order of my three tactics...like I thought it might make a difference, which it doesn't. I moved the third one to the first slot, the first to the second, and the second to the third. And before I'd even pressed <Continue>, they'd lost half their progress bars on the formations...

It takes longer. It took me almost an entire season to fill up the bars for all three. But at this point, I'll be deuced if I ever touch the screen again, except maybe to change Attacking/Defending Positioning or Team Blend...

Playing as Bury Town in the BSN, I have managed to find myself deep in relegation doo doo towards the back end of the season (21st). Although theres only 3 points in it at the moment.

Coming off the back of a few consecutive defeats, including a 4-1 in the previous game, I come up to a difficult fortnight. Corby (8th)(H) and Altrincham (3rd)(H), followed by a more winnable game in Stafford (15th)(A).

Making one slight tweak to my formation to try and make the defense more watertight, i pull one of my 3 CMs into the DMC role.

Corby game - 2-1 win, their goal a fluke 45 yard free kick in the 91st minute - great result.

Altrincham game - 6-1 win - me = shelshocked - have I just unlocked my teams potential?

Answer = NO. 3 consecutive defeats, 2-0, 2-0, 3-0 errr what??? :confused::confused:

I am now utterly baffled, teams morale has gone from Superb to poor in a matter of weeks, and best of all my strikers cant finish again.

How could I have kept the performances up? I played the exact same team for the first 2, only making changes in the 3rd due to signing a new GK and my top CB being out for 4 weeks

Any help would be appreciated as always,

dan_lcfc

Have a better team than the opponent

In regards to match preparation, have the focus set on team blend in between matches, and switch to another focus(depending on your team weakness/strength/opposition) a day before a match. These focuses are intended as a buffer, and having it on defensive positioning all seeason will not make your team a tighter unit. It's for a match by match basis, a brief boost in actual fact.

Team blend helps raise player morale, and gel them together, which is why when learning a new tactic team blend or 'none' are most beneficial. My player became fluid in a new tactic within 6 weeks this way, and when i got them to learn a new one, the bars were already very high already, much to my suprise.

Anyway the key to constant success is consistant tactics, gelling players together and learning where your weakness lay. And teams most definatley adapt to your tactics. I once had my centre back attack the far post on corners, and he scored some really important goals that way. Sooner or later he was being double marked at the back post. The AI scouts you!

It takes longer. It took me almost an entire season to fill up the bars for all three. But at this point, I'll be deuced if I ever touch the screen again, except maybe to change Attacking/Defending Positioning or Team Blend...

You're blaming SI for something that is actually your fault. If you're trying to get these players to learn 3 tactics then that is too much. Use one at a time, put team blend on, a see how quickly they can learn it. Then implement another. However, much depends on squad mental stats too. No use trying to get some non-leaguers to play a rigid 4-2-3-1 system.

You're blaming SI for something that is actually your fault. If you're trying to get these players to learn 3 tactics then that is too much. Use one at a time, put team blend on, a see how quickly they can learn it. Then implement another. However, much depends on squad mental stats too. No use trying to get some non-leaguers to play a rigid 4-2-3-1 system.

Yeh, that's what I was saying. It's interesting that you say your team learned a new tactic in 6 weeks; mine's taking 6 months following the same process. It seems the difference must be the mental attributes; the game engine must incorporate the intelligence of the squad which is not good for my hapless teenage non-leaguers, but great for realism.

Basically, the answer to the original question doesn't come in a one-size-fits-all box - it depends on your players and every team will be different.

You're blaming SI for something that is actually your fault. If you're trying to get these players to learn 3 tactics then that is too much. Use one at a time, put team blend on, a see how quickly they can learn it. Then implement another. However, much depends on squad mental stats too. No use trying to get some non-leaguers to play a rigid 4-2-3-1 system.

I'm not blaming SI for them taking so long to learn all three...I expected it. I'm blaming SI for them forgetting so much in the instantaneous gametime it took me to re-order the tactics (not to mention, that forgetting they did added significantly to the time it took them to fill all their bars). Yes, with team blend on, they will learn their one tactic fairly quickly. But as soon as you start teaching them something else...boom! All that hard work is gone.

And the reward for having taken the time to learn all three greatly outweighs the short-term benefits of a quick study. IMO.

Basically, the answer to the original question doesn't come in a one-size-fits-all box - it depends on your players and every team will be different.

Hear, here!

Thanks for all of your replies guys, Really helped me. Managed to keep them afloat winning on the last day of the season in what was a relegation play off.

Actually went the last 6 games unbeaten and with no extra money to spend, it looks like I may have another tough season on my hands.

Have clearly got a good squad, lets hope I can string some wins together in the new season and make a push for a higher finsh!!!