Game Difficulty Levels

I know this has been mentioned time and time again, but i'll rekindle it a touch. I know there will be people dead against this idea - I used to be one of them in truth.

I think that at the time, FM05 was the perfect game (when fully patched). The difficulty was perfect for me. And although I mention me, this isn't just about me anymore. This is for all the fans of the series that have left the game behind, or rather the game has left them behind. So many people I know packed in with the game because getting to know the game has become extremely hard, and not a game that you can casually play any more in my opinion. I have known myself compile a file full of notes about the game, strategies for playing against certain systems etc. If I have not played the game for a few weeks, it takes me many hours just to get into the correct mindset again. I now currently stand at around 3 months without having as much as touched the game itself. I really used to love this game with a passion, but situations change which mean I don't get the time to play like I once did. If only skill levels were introduced - even if there were only 2 levels of difficulty to the game. One that went back to the days of FM05, and one that is present day would be spot on.

I dont mean skill levels like the type on Pro Evolution Soccer etc either. If you play on 3 stars difficulty, then all opposition is of a similar quality, whether it be Barcelona or Bordeaux. A skill level system that would still hugely differentiate your Man Utd's to your Cambridge Utd's should still be clearly visible.

This isn't a rant at SI or anything, as I think the work SI have done over the years has been phenomenal - having owned every single version of the game, back to the days of CM1 with generated players on my Commodore Amiga. I just feel that my time on the modern FM is up, and I will be added to the list of many "former" FM/CM players. I may even buy the next incarnation of CM to see if that fares any better - although I very much doubt it with the comments on here, but my love for football manager games is still here, so it's definately worth a shot rather than to miss out altogether.

Cheers for reading guys

I know this has been mentioned time and time again, but i'll rekindle it a touch. I know there will be people dead against this idea - I used to be one of them in truth.

I think that at the time, FM05 was the perfect game (when fully patched). The difficulty was perfect for me. And although I mention me, this isn't just about me anymore. This is for all the fans of the series that have left the game behind, or rather the game has left them behind. So many people I know packed in with the game because getting to know the game has become extremely hard, and not a game that you can casually play any more in my opinion. I have known myself compile a file full of notes about the game, strategies for playing against certain systems etc. If I have not played the game for a few weeks, it takes me many hours just to get into the correct mindset again. I now currently stand at around 3 months without having as much as touched the game itself. I really used to love this game with a passion, but situations change which mean I don't get the time to play like I once did. If only skill levels were introduced - even if there were only 2 levels of difficulty to the game. One that went back to the days of FM05, and one that is present day would be spot on.

I dont mean skill levels like the type on Pro Evolution Soccer etc either. If you play on 3 stars difficulty, then all opposition is of a similar quality, whether it be Barcelona or Bordeaux. A skill level system that would still hugely differentiate your Man Utd's to your Cambridge Utd's should still be clearly visible.

This isn't a rant at SI or anything, as I think the work SI have done over the years has been phenomenal - having owned every single version of the game, back to the days of CM1 with generated players on my Commodore Amiga. I just feel that my time on the modern FM is up, and I will be added to the list of many "former" FM/CM players. I may even buy the next incarnation of CM to see if that fares any better - although I very much doubt it with the comments on here, but my love for football manager games is still here, so it's definately worth a shot rather than to miss out altogether.

Cheers for reading guys

No attribute masking, playing as Man Utd with FM scout to tell you everyones PA = Easy.

LLM = Hard.

There you go.

I understand completely as Im in the same boat as you really. Ive played FM since the first release of CM and ive always enjoyed it and beenof the opinion that the "hardness" depends entirely upon the situation of your current game, ie. harder games are LLM , easier games are top clubs with more money etc.

However, having grown up with the series and now being a father and husband, i dont get the time that the game requires to master. I fully understand and appreciate this is what makes the game so special and realisitc, but I do miss the days when I could just jump into a a game and play reasonably well with any team with minimal input to tactics, training and formations etc.

Granted I dont want success handed to me ona plate and I really enjoy success when i earn it with fm08, but i do miss being able to jump straight in. Not sure if difficulty settings would, could or even should ever be predefined in a simple option but I understand where you are coming from mate.

you cant set difficulty levels

it'll take out the fun.taking up a team from the championship to the EPL,and making them settle there,is hard

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Box:

I understand completely as Im in the same boat as you really. Ive played FM since the first release of CM and ive always enjoyed it and beenof the opinion that the "hardness" depends entirely upon the situation of your current game, ie. harder games are LLM , easier games are top clubs with more money etc.

However, having grown up with the series and now being a father and husband, i dont get the time that the game requires to master. I fully understand and appreciate this is what makes the game so special and realisitc, but I do miss the days when I could just jump into a a game and play reasonably well with any team with minimal input to tactics, training and formations etc.

Granted I dont want success handed to me ona plate and I really enjoy success when i earn it with fm08, but i do miss being able to jump straight in. Not sure if difficulty settings would, could or even should ever be predefined in a simple option but I understand where you are coming from mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats all what I mean mate, nothing more, nothing less.

@Junkhead: I understand what you mean, but quite simply, it aint that simple. Why should we have to be the top teams in order to enjoy the game? You are basically saying that for the poorer managers amongst us, be Man Utd / Chelsea and you'll enjoy the game more - even though you don't necessarily like these 2.

Pro Evo wouldn't be anywhere near as fun if the only difficulty level there was on the game was 5 Stars. Like I (and Box) say, difficulty levels might not be the answer - unfortunately it is the only solution I can think of. The gameplay of FM is excellent, but the difficulty of the game has alienated a hell of a lot of fans.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by creature_from_ottawa:

you cant set difficulty levels

it'll take out the fun.taking up a team from the championship to the EPL,and making them settle there,is hard </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would it take out the fun? I had most fun when I was actually winning games. I'm not saying I want to win every game, but I thought FM05 was perfect difficulty wise. If you like the game as it is, play the normal skill level game (as it is now). All I would like is a difficulty setting that was more like FM05. People could then choose what level they wanted to play the game at. If I buy a game, I want a game that I want to enjoy. I don't enjoy losing all the time like I do on FM08. If I don't enjoy the game, I don't buy it again - it's the same for any game with me.

SI are trying to make FM a sim game though and if they release difficulties there's no way they can call it a sim and i'm sure it would lose them a fair few customers, i for one would go straight out and buy CM as it would be far more realistic. So sorry its a no from me.

I don't want to bash you too hard but the game's not hard. I don't mess with tactics to any extreme level and I have found myself as successful as I would like to be. Okay so I'm not winning league after league and I probably lose more than I win but I'm having fun.

I think the major point that stops the type of manager who says it is too difficult to manage tactics in FM is laziness. In fact what I am saying is it is not difficulty you are faced with but laziness.

It takes no time at all to set up a winning tactic. I can change formations between games in a matter of minutes. I can change individual tactics of individual players in a matter of minutes. I could set up an entirely new tactic in less than 10 minutes.

If I could win leagues in FM with a basic tactic I picked from a menu then I would question the game more than I would if I were finding it too difficult. It's the world of professional football management in a game. It's not meant to be entirely realistic but it's meant to be as close to the real world as any football management sim gets. It's not meant to be easy.

I'm fed up of seeing games changed to keep the modern gaming base (wanting lazy and easy options) happy. I had years of fun playing Everquest and found it a challenge. Then WoW came along and changed MMOs for the worse. If that happens with FM and the world of football management sims then I would be annoyed.

If you find it challenging then practice and call it an achievement on your part if you do well. What is the point if nothing in life provides you with a challenge?

The last point I will make is that FM could be made super easy, so that generic tactics enable you to win games and seasons without effort. You would then then get bored because it just becomes the same thing after the same thing.

FM is a great game and should carry on in the direction it is heading.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sm1979:

Pro Evo wouldn't be anywhere near as fun if the only difficulty level there was on the game was 5 Stars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there may as well be, I wish they would bring back the unlockable 6-star level. It's just boringly easy.

As for Difficulty levels on FM, I'm not too sure... it would mean that everybody wouldn't be on a level playing field, and I find that if you want an easy game, you can just be Chelsea or Real Madrid... it's not exactly a challenge.

I don't think this is feasible. If you think about it realistically, there would have to be a different match engine for each difficulty level. The higher the difficulty level, the more complex the match engine for that level to make it more difficult. SI have enough on their hands as it is trying to do just the one. Asking them to build more, plus test them etc.. would just take up way too much time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by butts:

SI are trying to make FM a sim game though and if they release difficulties there's no way they can call it a sim and i'm sure it would lose them a fair few customers, i for one would go straight out and buy CM as it would be far more realistic. So sorry its a no from me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I appreciate your comments, even though I do disagree fully. Why would you stop buying the game? My suggestion wouldn't affect you at all. Like I said a couple of times, there would still be a "normal" setting, so the game wouldn't change for you. For you to say you wouldn't buy it anymore is quite ridiculous. Fair comment about the "sim" aspect though. Tbh I couldn't care less what they want to call it - all I want is an enjoyable game. FM is sadly losing it's appeal for some, and has already lost it's appeal for a ton.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Noel Gallagher:

I don't think this is feasible. If you think about it realistically, there would have to be a different match engine for each difficulty level. The higher the difficulty level, the more complex the match engine for that level to make it more difficult. SI have enough on their hands as it is trying to do just the one. Asking them to build more, plus test them etc.. would just take up way too much time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair comment mate it was only meant as a suggestion from a personal point of view. But i'm no programmer and would have no idea the amount of work that would be needed. As you say, if there is a lot of work needed, then it definately wouldn't be feasible.

it would surely dillute everything that SI have tried to create to have something like a '3 star dificulty where all teams are similar qulaity'.

also how would the players work? could you buy a player for 50k from a conference team and have him play superbly for barce in the champions league if all teams were of similar qulaity?

you say that a skill level system would still hugely differentiate between manutd and cambridge but then we're back to the begining.

that temas have differing quality adn ability.

play as a leading team in your league and it will be easier than playing as a rubbish team in your league.

i am casually playing this game and doing well. i'm casually playing it because i dont have as much time as i did when i was younger.

and whats all this about strategies for playing ag ainst certain systems?

play a 442 with some basic player tactics and go for it.

that's what i do.

@anagain;

I really wish I could have you by my side as I played FM as you find it so easy. For you to say that i'm unsuccessful because of laziness is (trying not to bash you too hard) quite a moronic statement. If anything it's through trying TOO hard, but to say it's through laziness is a pathetic excuse. I have put so much time into systems, tinkering with tiny detail to counter what the AI is doing; having numerous tactics to suit different strategies; scouting players that would allow my team to play a different way etc etc etc. You are probably the type of guy that can fly through a season in no time. For me to get through a season, even when playing devoting a lot of time to the game, can take me weeks, rather than days. If that is laziness then yours definately sounds more lazy than mine.

As you suggest, maybe I should choose Chelsea and enjoy a one-dimensional game in order to find enjoyment. Should be a good laugh. Or maybe I won't bother buying FM again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

and whats all this about strategies for playing ag ainst certain systems?

play a 442 with some basic player tactics and go for it.

that's what i do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This really works for you? I have tried and failed in the past. Maybe I should have a go and persist then?

what we have to understand though is that FM is a football simulator. and yes it would be great to be able to please everyone all of the time but it's not feasible. time and money get in the way.

just to use your example of a difficulty level, to rebalance a game for each level (level 3 being that all teams are roughly the same quality but still have a skill level system) would be like creating a wqhole new game for each level i'm sure.

it's difficult enough to get all the players playing as they should and making sure physical stats aren't too strong in the match engine and making sure the combination of certain stats dont create a super player without having to do this again with a lsightly different match egnine calculator.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As you suggest, maybe I should choose Chelsea and enjoy a one-dimensional game in order to find enjoyment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said that you didn't find it fun because it was too hard, but don't want to be Chelsea because it would be one dimensional. I'm interested - what sort of teams do you usually play as? And what would you consider success with those teams?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sm1979:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

and whats all this about strategies for playing ag ainst certain systems?

play a 442 with some basic player tactics and go for it.

that's what i do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This really works for you? I have tried and failed in the past. Maybe I should have a go and persist then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a 442

wingers with 1 square forward arrows and attacking mentality, cross ball rarely.

strikers normal mentality

fullbacks attacking mentality

center backs defensive mentality

1 CM through balls often, long shots rare

1 CM through balls rare, long shots often

play off side

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sm1979:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Noel Gallagher:

I don't think this is feasible. If you think about it realistically, there would have to be a different match engine for each difficulty level. The higher the difficulty level, the more complex the match engine for that level to make it more difficult. SI have enough on their hands as it is trying to do just the one. Asking them to build more, plus test them etc.. would just take up way too much time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair comment mate it was only meant as a suggestion from a personal point of view. But i'm no programmer and would have no idea the amount of work that would be needed. As you say, if there is a lot of work needed, then it definately wouldn't be feasible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do understand why some users feel the need for a difficulty level as I appreciate the frustration of not having the time to dedicate to the game. I myself don't have as much time as I did in my youth, so I do experience the odd frustration also.

As this is a point that is often raised, I just thought I would throw in a reason as to why I don't think this would be possible.

Postal Postie and Noel Gallagher, thank you for your contributions

I will have a go at your tactical suggestion Postal next time I feel the FM urge. Or should I say, when I get the time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sm1979:

@anagain;

I really wish I could have you by my side as I played FM as you find it so easy. For you to say that i'm unsuccessful because of laziness is (trying not to bash you too hard) quite a moronic statement. If anything it's through trying TOO hard, but to say it's through laziness is a pathetic excuse. I have put so much time into systems, tinkering with tiny detail to counter what the AI is doing; having numerous tactics to suit different strategies; scouting players that would allow my team to play a different way etc etc etc. You are probably the type of guy that can fly through a season in no time. For me to get through a season, even when playing devoting a lot of time to the game, can take me weeks, rather than days. If that is laziness then yours definately sounds more lazy than mine.

As you suggest, maybe I should choose Chelsea and enjoy a one-dimensional game in order to find enjoyment. Should be a good laugh. Or maybe I won't bother buying FM again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't referring to 'you', rather it was a general statement that laziness is a big factor. I also never said the game was easy because it's not. Neither is it so hard that I feel all my efforts are null and void. It is challenging.

So maybe the laziness idea doesn't apply to yourself but it does to many; that I am sure of.

Maybe in your case you are trying too hard, as you suggest. Sometimes changing the tactic you employ far too often can unsettle players and they perform worse. One or two carefully thought out tactical formations can lead to a successful season. Apply that with small cases of tinkering in matches and you're off and away.

Of course if you are asking for an easier level of play so that you don't have to make these wholescale changes all the time then what is that?

It honestly takes me a good week to two weeks to play a season, or between two and three days of play. So you're not alone there. Doesn't really bother me of course as no matter how long it takes I am having fun.

If you are asking for easier levels of play so that it doesn't take you so long then I again have to ask what is that? Is it laziness?

You don't have to choose Chelsea to be successful. I never suggested you do so so I am unsure as to why say I did. Perhaps you are getting me confused with another.

I try to be as honest as I can, and I say what I think. That is why I said I wasn't trying to bash you too hard...I'm really not. Laziness is a feature of modern gamers and it is why challenging games are few and far between these days. As I said I am a lover of MMOs and WoW is a statement of the modern gamer...you get what you want with little effort. I followed another game named Vanguard from the day it was conceived and it was always envisioned as a game to challenge and test. That was always met with skepticism from many and a continued barrage of players asking for it not to be challenging led it being just that. It went from being a promising and challenging MMO to being just another clone of WoW.

Why should FM follow that trend? Why shouldn't it remain one game that does challenge its fans? What you are asking for continues the current trend so I will always dismiss it fervently. I've seen good games change to suit those who can't be bothered to improve and FM doesn't deserve to follow suit.

No offense, and I also hope you chose not to decide not to buy FM again. You may find you are clogged down at them moment but a little perseverance can work wonders.

@ anagain:

Really sorry mate, I thought you were one of those people that because you were good at the game, you were happy to criticise others who weren't so good. I thought you were labelling me as a lazy gamer - sorry anyway mate.

As for the Chelsea, yeah I must have had you confused with someone else. If you feel so strongly about this difficulty level thing, then good on you for backing it. All along it was just a suggestion as I do know a hell of a lot of people that have left the game behind because of the difficulty, this is no lie, I am the only one left that still occasionally plays the game. I keep mentioning it, but FM05 imo was the perfect game - I really loved it. But I just don't think I could load it up again and hope for the same level of enjoyment, as the game has moved on so much, it really would feel outdated.

My problem still stands though unfortunately. I suck at FM. If I don't get any better at this one, then I will never buy FM again. Like I say, I may decide to give CM a try just in case. I'm sure it will be an even bigger let-down, but I owe it to myself to try. There is still a wannabe manager inside me - unfortunately the dedication needed and difficulty level put me off future versions of FM

Sorry again bud, and thanks for the reply. Happy FMing mate

As long as difficulty levels are implemented in such a way that it's presented via more interaction with your assistant and coach staff then it would be good.

Straight up difficulty levels that modify the engine is a definite no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Junkhead:

No attribute masking, playing as Man Utd with FM scout to tell you everyones PA = Easy.

LLM = Hard.

There you go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that.

The difficulty is in which league you play in.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Junkhead:

No attribute masking, playing as Man Utd with FM scout to tell you everyones PA = Easy.

LLM = Hard.

There you go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that.

The difficulty is in which league you play in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suggest you RE-READ the thread, no one is saying that isnt the case,the guy is just saying hes a bit lost in the depth of the game.

Anyone who has been playing FM or CM for a long time may remember , probably more nostalgically than anything else, when it was much simpler to get success for your team without being a tactical genius.

I strongly disagree that just 1 or two tactics will work for any team, and its down to lazyness not being ableto fid the correct one. I have only recently began to string some kind of form together with decent premiership teams simply because Ive been learning more about 'reading the game' via the match screen and learnign to counter and react to the AI's weaknesses and subsequent changes. So to say one or two tactics will always work is rubbish as the AI will counter them and exploit their weaknesses - and if there are no weaknesses then surely these are "ultimate tactics" which FM has been trying to rid itself of.

I think the most sensible thing said so far has been the difficultly level changing with the implementation of varying levels of assistance from coaches and assistants. This would save a a lot of time and help those of us who feel at a loss when we are losing games regularly despite our best efforts. More help and assistance with why we are losing matches, or why we conceded various goals,even just elaborating mroe on the info the game already gives you would probably help loads!

For example look at the scouts reports on the opposition, they undoubtedly offer the key to success in an upcoming match but it can be difficult to intemperate and use this info.