Exciting 4-5-1 - how to win in style

Hey everybody

Firstly some background

I tried to develop a tactic that's really based upon one principle, the most important one for me in football: play beautiful, win in style. I'm so happy with the outcome that I'd like to share it with you.

The formation is a bit difficult to classify but it's certainly something of a 4-5-1. Because the tactic relies on quick short passes, the reasoning behind the formation was to always have as many passing options upfront as possible. Width is primarily delivered by the attacking wingbacks and to some leeser degree by the outer AMCs.

A midfield spotting three attacking midfielders is notoriously difficult to defend against because it isn't possible to defend with three DMCs. So there's always some doubt whether a DC has to step out, potentialliy leaving the other DC with a dangerous one on one situation. Otherwise one or two MCs will have to fall back actually to the DMC position, giving them less opportunity to support their own build up play. In addition in doing so they won't be able to pick up your deep lying playmaker, allowing him much time on the ball. And lastly a massive midfield helps a lot in having high ball possession, which for me also is a part of beautiful football. The downfall is of course a slight proneness on wing attacks. But there's some remedy to that. More on that later

A screenshot:

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Positions:

GK - a sweeper keeper

DCs: pretty standard stopper - cover combo. They should be dominant in the air

WBs: they are attack-minded

DM: an anchor man backing up your MC and giving him room for creativity

MC: deep-lying playmaker. Links attack and defence. Should be a good passer, high creativity and have some defensive skills if possible

AMC: a trequartista. Creativity, passing, also finishing

AMCL/R: attacking midfielders

ST: a poacher. Should be of the quick type, good finishing is important

A small pitch size should work best with this tactic.

Now on to the fallback: what to do when your opponent is overpowering the flanks? Witch a simple switch in formation your defence will gain more stability in such situations. Since your playing 5-4-1 it's a rather defensive tactic, but it's ultimate goal is still stylish football. I use this one against opponents overpowering the wings or opponents that are big favorite or to shut up shop:

To give some impression of the style, here's a short video:

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=1zm15yw&s=7

Some important points: the tactics main goal is beautiful football, and that's technically demanding at least for the attacking players. So I can't promise that it'll work well for lower league sides. Secondly testing is still ongoing, so use it at your own risk

Results:

I'd really appreciate some constructive criticism. Thanks for your interest

Downloads v2:

http://www.mediafire.com/?3r8rclc22c9pahc

http://www.mediafire.com/?aqu3ul6m5auecgd

New in v2: The AMCr is an inside forward, so if you can play an AMC who's also comfortable as a striker there or at least look for good finishing. Enjoy

Downloads old v1:

http://www.mediafire.com/?czwrrqbo02md5r1

http://www.mediafire.com/?90jb9gsmwmz5d49

It's got some potential. Gonna test it further. This is from my test save game, using FMRTE to make the tactic fluid. Used the 4-5-1 for the whole game, no tweaks, no OI, no shouts.

The tactic is very solid. Possession is not so high as seemed initially, but after rechecking the match and player stats, I think that it could massively improve had I used a more physical MC than Xavi. Gonna replay the sequence of games using Busquets when I get some time.

At home against weaker, deep defending opposition

2nd leg of the CL game versus Real

Away vs Real again, for La Liga this time

Cup final vs Real, Neutral ground

All in all, very impressive. Good amount of CCC created in all games. Very solid defending. Almost all conceded goals were from corners or the bugged cross/slide combo. Nicely done.

give it a try whem i'm at home

I think I'll give this a go with my Swansea side. I've been buying players to play a 4-5-1 with wingers for 3 seasons, but can never make it work. I have to admit I know little about the tactics side of things in the game though. In my first season I had very pacey wingers who would end up with a lot of shots but never scored. I bought wingers that I felt could score those chances, but they never seem to get into the same positions. By telling them to cut inside, would that be cut inside and have a go at goal, or would it be cut inside and then cross? I'm also never sure how to use passing. My coaches tell me I have some of the best passers in the league, but does that mean use short or direct passes? Short sounds like it would be for weaker passes of the ball, but direct sounds like long ball?

Have you tried to play this tactic with low clubs ?

looks good think i will give it a try, but its not a 4-5-1 its a 5-4-1

its not a 4-5-1 its a 5-4-1

How's that? Do you count the DM as a defender? You could actually do that since he has mainly defensive duties. But then again he's still a midfielder. And by the same reasoning you could count the wingbacks as some sort of midfielders as they have a lot to contribute to the attack and aren't mainly defensive, which would make for something of a 3-6-1

@Ernest: Sorry, I haven't tested it with lower league sides yet. I guess it'll need some tweaking to work (lower creativity of the attacking players, play more direct, play slower etc), but never know

looks good think i will give it a try, but its not a 4-5-1 its a 5-4-1

More like a 5-1-3-1 ^^

But really who cares about the numbers as long as the tactic works.

Another screenshot. Had some luck with the fixtures there

how to you get the arsenal logo and in top left and RVP face in that other screenie?

He downloaded a skin pack I still need to do that

Will try with my Roma squad. Was doing well till i faced inter, lost 3-0. All involving set peices. First goal (37 min), freekick hit of wall into space for cambiasso to fire in, (de rossi gets send of for straight red on 73rd min) second goal (87th min), corner failed to be cleared properly and falls sneijder in space outside the box and just hits a rocket into the far corner, third goal (90th min), another corner that fails to get cleared lands to sniejder who passes to eto in the box who slides it past the keeper.

The only other goal ive conceded also came from a corner.

brokken: I tweaked a skin (sparks master 11) to be thus. I described how I did it in this thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/236113-Club-logo-behind-player-face?highlight=papamogl

If this is too fiddly for you pm me and I can send you the tweaked skin or try to help you otherwise.

@Two: defending set pieces (especially corners) is difficult in FM11. Maybe setting the striker to 'edge of area' instead of 'stay forward' helps a bit. Nice to hear your doing fine other than that. Keep us posted

Have noticed I give away alot of penalties, luckily the takers have missed 80% of them. Tend to get alot of yellow cards each game too, at least 5. Team gets very complacent against weaker teams and then tend to lose in the last 15 mins Have dropped from 1st place to 5th without a win in the last 10 games.

As well as conceding 80% of my goals from set peices or crosses; 70% of my goals come from corners or crosses, 20% from long range shots and 10% counter attacks, have yet to really score a passing manoeuvre as shown in your vid.

Bursapbor and barca qualified above me for the champions league :/

Mhmm complacency against weaker opponents might be due to teamtalks. If your conceding so many from crosses: is it because too many crosses come into the box (problem with the wingbacks) or are too many of the crosses converted (DCs are weak in the air)?

Next question is why you are conceding so many from set pieces. Do you think there's something wrong with the defending set pieces settings?

I'm working on a new version. If you want to test it I could PM you a link

I've bought a new right back, and their crosses aren't as deadly as before.

I've made a few changes myself and have begun to dominate smaller teams now, they are still scoring some screamers against me though Last couple months atleast 2 of the goals of the month have been from lesser teams against me. Keep working on your new version and send it to me when you think its ready, im playing around with yours aswell so ill let you know how it turns out.

Would be great if you could tell me what tweaks are working well for you. Will keep working on it. Next thing on my list is testing various things to tighten the defense

Just in case anybody wants to know: a small pitch size should work best with this tactic

Gonna see the instructions you used for this tactic, i was a big fan of your arsenal 4-3-3 on FM10, with some of my own tweaks, but i haven't been able to achieve the same success on FM11...

Thanks for the kind words kingpin. Hope you like this one too

As well as conceding 80% of my goals from set peices or crosses; 70% of my goals come from corners or crosses, 20% from long range shots and 10% counter attacks, have yet to really score a passing manoeuvre as shown in your vid./

In my experience, having your match preparation set to Defending Set Pieces can make a difference. I must admit I haven't had the time to check this tactic yet, so I don't know if there is anything wrong with the settings or how it deals with defending the flanks, but I thought I'd share something I found useful. I loved Papamogl's tactics in FM 10, his work with short passing/ high tempo/ high time wasting settings was really interestingl in my opinion, and it really helped me develop a better understanding of the match engine.

P.S. I really liked the three man defense in the FM '10 version as well. Did you test it and didn't work well in FM '11? I would think it might help deal with some issues with crosses and the like since it has adequate cover for the fullbacks. Anyway, glad to see you;re back and making new tactics!

Hey Elhan nice to have you in this thread. The op to your own 4-2-3-1 tactic is outstanding, hope I can analyze it soon. And thanks a lot for the tip with the match preparation, that might indeed help

I've already tinkered with a three man defense but had some problems with the DCm stepping out enough to support the attacking play as well with the d-line pushing up enough. So until now I only was able to create a defensive version. But I'll try to figure out these points to bring back an attacking high tempo/short passing tactic with a three man defense

Just in case anybody wants to know: a small pitch size should work best with this tactic

As for the tactic, just started using it for sunderland and it's doing really good, only down side is i don't have enough AMC's and i'm having to use strikers occasionally in that position, overall though this looks a good tactic.

You should edit the first post and include that info.

Glad to hear it working with Sunderland

Won the Community Shield with this! Will report back after a few more games. Seems suprisingly good in defence.

Please keep us posted. Meanwhile two more screenshots:

If anybody cares I'm soon uploading v2

Some results. Too bad I've lost the CL final against Barca

If anybody cares I'm soon uploading v2

when are you uploading v2 ?

Maybe tonight or tomorrow. Stay tuned

Maybe tonight or tomorrow. Stay tuned

i m waiting it

Hey guys, new v2 is up. The AMCr is an inside forward now, so look for good finishing (best would be to use a player who can play AMC and FC).

Please give me feedback on how it works for you or on how to further improve. Enjoy

Anyone using v2? Some feedback would be great. What is better, what is not working well for you? Any pointers on how it could be further improved?

I'm working on v3 of this tactic which imo will bring quite an improvement in terms of style. There's an incredible goal scored using the new v3 tactic as a sneak peek:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/244506-This-is-it-the-perfect-goal-%28sneak-peek%29?p=6258137#post6258137

hello papamogl,

I rarely post here, but I'm really interesting in your tactics. As you say that looks like exciting.

I tried to build an offensive tactic with 3DC without success. I will give a try on your V2, waiting for your V3.

Hey bouli66. Thanks for the kind words, always good to get some feedback. Will keep you posted on v3

Actually, I'm tested it with barca (I know, such a powerfull team, but it's just to help me understanding how it works)

My results are:

P10 - W9 - D0 - L1

26 goals - 2 conceeded

10 matchs is not enough for my team to be familiar with tactic. They didn't understand the placement yet. (in the pre-match window).

But, I appreciate the teamplay. The Mc (Xavi) and the 2 Fb (Alves & Abidal) are the key of the ball possession, around 50 pass per game each.

Villa as ST found difficulties to score at the beginning, but now it seems to be ok (4 goals the last 5 games).

Same with pedro (AMCr), who is becoming the main assist player (passing to villa or messi) after difficulties at the beginning. I also like the way the AMCr is going through to support Villa.

I have difficulties with Iniesta (AMCl). Well, his influence in the construction is very good, but at the end of the game he has neither more than 7.2/10.

My main issue is concerning Busquet (Mdc). He hasn't got enough activity (around 10 pass per game). And, consequently poor notes (around 6.8/10). More than the note, I feel him useless during possession time, which represent more than 60% of the time.

Xavi is doing everything, and if he is not able to find iniesta-messi-pedro, he passes the ball to the defenders who send the ball to the FB, ignoring busquets.

I have tried to switch in 5-4-1 just to test if he has a better role as Dc. But, I'm not happy with the behavior of the 3 defenders. I mean, the Dcl and Dcr are not covering my Fb. They stay in the middle even if the opposite winger is runing alone through the line.

BUt, as 10 games is not enough to make my team familiar with the tactic, I will keep testing. Then I will switch to arsenal to test a little bit more with other players.

After that, I will start the real game as Lyon manager ^^

Hey thanks a lot for that detailed feedback. It's a helpful observation that the DMC doesn't participate in the attacking game as much as he could. In v3 he will be set up as a third DC, so it'll be different thing altogether. As a short-time remedy you might try to increase his 'runs from deep' setting and see if your still solid enough in defense

Sorry for the delay. The ME changed quite a bit in 11.2 so I have to do some more finetuning on v3

Hi, I'm currently unable to download, is it possible to see a screen shot or could you describe team/player instructions?

Can I upload to another hoster or send you the tactic by e-mail? Would be a bit tedious to upload a screenshot for every players instructions. But I can do it tonight if the aforementioned doesn't help you