Game Over - Twice

I have now started and had to quit 2 attempts at career games.

In the first i finished 7th in the 1st season with West Ham, i was chuffed to bits and was looking forward to the new season, but disaster, despite literally giving everyone opposition team a game in the first season, the tactic completely bombed in the second and i was bottom of the table and winless after 10 games.

Started a new game, same team with a different tactic and absolutely blitzed the opposition, so much so that at the end of January i was top of the EPL after leapfrogging Chelsea after a 4-0 demolition at Upton Park.

We ended up finishing 3rd(and winning the FA Cup) after some late season injury problems and a couple of ridiculous defeats, but i was chuffed to pieces and again looking forward to the new season and playing in the Champions League.

Lo and behold season 2 begins and a massively improved team suddenly cannot string two passes together and we start the season with 5 straight defeats and a tactic that has gone from beautiful to b*llocks in the couple of months between seasons.

I've never really been a victim of 2nd season syndrome in all my days of playing FM, but this is without any doubt what is going on, there is simply no other explanation(although i'm sure i'll hear a few)

I simply cannot muster the earlier excitement i felt to start a new game, as i cannot help but think that all the hard work and time i put into the first season, will all have been a complete waste when season 2 starts.

If you quit a career game just because the second season does not produce the same results as the first one, you should not start something like a career. Failing, bad luck, sacking, that's all part of a manager career. Why did you not continue and see what the 3th season will look like?

If you quit a career game just because the second season does not produce the same results as the first one, you should not start something like a career. Failing, bad luck, sacking, that's all part of a manager career. Why did you not continue and see what the 3th season will look like?

The obvious answer is that i'll be sacked anyway within a month. The good finish upped expectations from the board AND the players and the failing of the tactic is so massive that if i had the time, i would have to completely overhaul and would have no idea where to start, because i have no idea why it has completely stopped being effective?

In the first season i was murdering top teams home and away as well as the weaker teams, i think in 40 odd games i was outplayed twice and even then it was only after having a player sent off or having to field unfit players due to injuries and such.

How many transfers did you make in between seasons?

How many transfers did you make in between seasons?

I made 1 less in the 2nd season than i did in the 1st(last game)

In the save where i finished 7th i made just 3 signings 2nd season.

I could understand if i brought in ten new players and threw them straight in, although it would not explain such an utterly complete downfall of the tactic anyway, especially as they were of so much better quality than the players i traded them for.

No matter how good your tactic is you need to vary, if you insist on a specific tactic on most games your competition will learn and fight back.

Also, you finished 3rd, with West Ham that's a nice achievement on the first season, i recommend you to reward your players, give them new contracts, make sure everyone's focused on doing better the next season.

No matter how good your tactic is you need to vary, if you insist on a specific tactic on most games your competition will learn and fight back.

Also, you finished 3rd, with West Ham that's a nice achievement on the first season, i recommend you to reward your players, give them new contracts, make sure everyone's focused on doing better the next season.

Well, thats crap. Most managers around the world use the same tactic over and over, with minor tweaks depending on the rival, the ground, etc, but not great changes every year. I dont see Guardiola, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger doing so...they ALWAYS plays 95% the same tactic year after year. So whay Fm should be a lot different from that?, and even less if you are coaching a high class team where individual efforts could end a match.

The computer doesn't learn your tactic and learn to adapt etc, it's just a rumor everyone seems to use as an excuse.

If you quit a career game just because the second season does not produce the same results as the first one, you should not start something like a career. Failing, bad luck, sacking, that's all part of a manager career. Why did you not continue and see what the 3th season will look like?

Agreed, It cant be a career game if you quit when things dont turn out as you plan

kind of agree that by quitting a 'career' after a season cause you had 5 bad results is a bit pointless. You say you would be sacked in a few months? How do you know, how do you know that you are not about to turn it around? Seriously, quitting an restating after a season will never solve the problem

Well, thats crap. Most managers around the world use the same tactic over and over, with minor tweaks depending on the rival, the ground, etc, but not great changes every year. I dont see Guardiola, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger doing so...they ALWAYS plays 95% the same tactic year after year. So whay Fm should be a lot different from that?, and even less if you are coaching a high class team where individual efforts could end a match.

They play the same formation. Their approach to matches is overtly different. Man Utd away to Barca do not play in the same way as Man Utd at home to Wigan. Mourinho famously prepares his teams in minute tactical detail.

The only teams that don't change their approach very much are those managed by a weak tactician or those that are so good and so attuned to their approach that they dominate games against everyone with their method. It could be argued that the current Barca side, Real Madrid in the Zidane days, the great Milan and Liverpool sides employ only one system. However, I am sure that an awful lot of effort and thought went on behind the scenes to get these teams looking like they only play in one way.

Anybody who builds one tactic and assumes it will work for every match against every team in all conditions is, unless they have a world class team, going to struggle sooner or later. The tactic might collapse in heavy conditions or against good sides sitting back and countering (the two most common causes). After a bad run, morale drops and everything gets worse, requiring the manager to be a fantastic motivator to get the team going again.

The computer doesn't learn your tactic and learn to adapt etc, it's just a rumor everyone seems to use as an excuse.

They do in a different way.

If you finish really high positions in the table using a below average team, your reputation will skyrocket. Teams play differently based on the oppositions reputation. Whereas at one point, teams would be complacent against you, are no longer complacent as they see you a threat. If your reputation is higher than theirs, they will tend to play a counter-attacking game and more defensive, whereas before they went full out attack.

Small differences like that might make you struggle if you don't adapt or change to a new formation.

Tactics don't get 'cracked' by the AI, and never will.

However, if you go from being a bottom of the table team at the start, who the big teams will expect to roll over, and change them into contenders of course they will play differently against you. So of course you will need to adapt a tactic.

Managers IRL do not change tactics they alter player mentality and that is something you are unable to do in FM so the notion that you need to tweak your tactics is incorrect. Judging from most career games I've seen in these forums its a case of having the right players and the right formation from the start and over time you will succeed. This is bacause as time goes on the AI becomes weaker and some players seem to be set in-game to just be perfect at succeeding even if IRL you would never consider them great players. This facet of the game has not changed since 07 and continues to still be the case.

Chances are those who succeed over time purchase the same players, youth players and named stars.

Also it's not right to quit a career save after 2 seasons but try to purchase the players that are considered in these forums to be "great" and you'll get over the second season syndrome but it will no longer be your game as they are not players you would essentially buy.

Managers IRL do not change tactics they alter player mentality and that is something you are unable to do in FM so the notion that you need to tweak your tactics is incorrect. Judging from most career games I've seen in these forums its a case of having the right players and the right formation from the start and over time you will succeed. This is bacause as time goes on the AI becomes weaker and some players seem to be set in-game to just be perfect at succeeding even if IRL you would never consider them great players. This facet of the game has not changed since 07 and continues to still be the case.

Chances are those who succeed over time purchase the same players, youth players and named stars.

Also it's not right to quit a career save after 2 seasons but try to purchase the players that are considered in these forums to be "great" and you'll get over the second season syndrome but it will no longer be your game as they are not players you would essentially buy.

Definately need to tweak tactics regularly.

They play the same formation. Their approach to matches is overtly different. Man Utd away to Barca do not play in the same way as Man Utd at home to Wigan. Mourinho famously prepares his teams in minute tactical detail.

The only teams that don't change their approach very much are those managed by a weak tactician or those that are so good and so attuned to their approach that they dominate games against everyone with their method. It could be argued that the current Barca side, Real Madrid in the Zidane days, the great Milan and Liverpool sides employ only one system. However, I am sure that an awful lot of effort and thought went on behind the scenes to get these teams looking like they only play in one way.

Anybody who builds one tactic and assumes it will work for every match against every team in all conditions is, unless they have a world class team, going to struggle sooner or later. The tactic might collapse in heavy conditions or against good sides sitting back and countering (the two most common causes). After a bad run, morale drops and everything gets worse, requiring the manager to be a fantastic motivator to get the team going again.

I agree in part to what you are saying, but, first of all i tried using the in game tactics and shouts etc, found i was outplaying most teams and on the whole getting things **** on, the only thing wrong with this was the results i was getting.

Changing philosophy, starting strategy as well as changing player roles, oi's and creativity etc, works well on the one hand, but on the other dominating games in every fashion but goals gets old really quickly, so as usual with this game, you find something that works instead and in every FM(or whatever its been called in the past) the easiest and best way has always been to find one tactic and stick with it.

There are thousands of people logging in every day, looking for some kind of super tactic, personally i have always wanted to play the game the right way, but get forced into the one tactic route because at the end of the day its the only way that works, or at least it has in the past and i'm sure any day now the same will be said of FM11.

I had 40 weeks of the year where my one tactic was outdoing the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd home and away, whilst tearing apart weaker sides, to one that 8 weeks later has gone from 65-70% possession, 80+% pass ratio and creating an average of 6 or 7 CCC's a game to one that i find players twice as good, struggling to put two passes together?

Maybe if i was playing direct football and at all times aiming for a TM in a singular style of play, i could understand the tactic being found out and uneffective, but in this instance it is not the case, the overachievement is privvy to the tactic being that it is of a mixed variety of attacking creativity and as such its success should be pertinent to the quality of player available.

This is exactly why such a massive amount of FM'ers choose to wait for and then enable one of the many super tactics that end up flooding the forums.

Definately need to tweak tactics regularly.

Not true and agree with Bumface, the game has a setup that allows for one tactic and a set group of players to work every time.

Not true and agree with Bumface, the game has a setup that allows for one tactic and a set group of players to work every time.

What? Your joking right?

I agree in part to what you are saying, but, first of all i tried using the in game tactics and shouts etc, found i was outplaying most teams and on the whole getting things **** on, the only thing wrong with this was the results i was getting.

Changing philosophy, starting strategy as well as changing player roles, oi's and creativity etc, works well on the one hand, but on the other dominating games in every fashion but goals gets old really quickly, so as usual with this game, you find something that works instead and in every FM(or whatever its been called in the past) the easiest and best way has always been to find one tactic and stick with it.

There are thousands of people logging in every day, looking for some kind of super tactic, personally i have always wanted to play the game the right way, but get forced into the one tactic route because at the end of the day its the only way that works, or at least it has in the past and i'm sure any day now the same will be said of FM11.

I had 40 weeks of the year where my one tactic was outdoing the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd home and away, whilst tearing apart weaker sides, to one that 8 weeks later has gone from 65-70% possession, 80+% pass ratio and creating an average of 6 or 7 CCC's a game to one that i find players twice as good, struggling to put two passes together?

Maybe if i was playing direct football and at all times aiming for a TM in a singular style of play, i could understand the tactic being found out and uneffective, but in this instance it is not the case, the overachievement is privvy to the tactic being that it is of a mixed variety of attacking creativity and as such its success should be pertinent to the quality of player available.

This is exactly why such a massive amount of FM'ers choose to wait for and then enable one of the many super tactics that end up flooding the forums.

Given the amount of work SI and the contributors to the tactical forum have put into making FM tactics real world and dynamic, this post makes me really sad. Do we really want a game in which you set up a single tactic, press continue and win?

Guess what suprises me is knocking out two seasons in 10 real days.

With the depth and complexity of this game now, it would take me almost that long just to get properly setup to manage the club.

Seems to me that in this scenario, the game is being run more like an arcade game, and ignores the depth required to be successfull over a sustained period.

Just my view, don't bag me too much.

I kinda agree with the OP, it's seldom you see a overhaul of the tactic, and as later pointed out, it's the same formation...small tweaks should be sufficient, and why the shouts if they wont random the outcome...

Guess what suprises me is knocking out two seasons in 10 real days.

With the depth and complexity of this game now, it would take me almost that long just to get properly setup to manage the club.

Seems to me that in this scenario, the game is being run more like an arcade game, and ignores the depth required to be successfull over a sustained period.

Just my view, don't bag me too much.

Not everyone are macro manage freaks.

Anyways, what are peoples % on the tactical consistence who claim this should be advised to swap a lot. Mine i currently 75% after 3 seasons, actually I'm in the fourth >.<

Anyways, what are peoples % on the tactical consistence who claim this should be advised to swap a lot. Mine i currently 75% after 3 seasons, actually I'm in the fourth >.<

Sorry, what?

Anyways, what are peoples % on the tactical consistence who claim this should be advised to swap a lot. Mine i currently 75% after 3 seasons, actually I'm in the fourth >.<

Sorry, what?

Ditto....?

In answer to the OP. I cannot really directly help you, as I'm still in the first season. Takes me forever. Perhaps I micro-manage too much? But, this year, I've found that tactically, it's difficult to maintain a single tactic successfully.

I have been using the Match Preparation screen, I establish my "main" tactic first. Then after it has been gelled within the team, i.e. the blue bars are full or almost full. Then I begin to create a secondary tactic, maybe call it an "away" tactic. Then over time, perhaps a few months, you have created more viable options tactically. I'm currently nearing three completely "gelled" tactics ( about 6 months in the first season) . SO, maybe you could look at training your team in several optional tactics to have as back up, in case plan A falls flat.

Good luck anyway.

Not everyone are macro manage freaks.

I agree, but this game pretty much demands you should be.

It is a full blown management sim after all.

Hard to imagine walking into a football club, chucking shirts around, sitting in the dugout and watching your team win the EPL (or whatever)

Rather think it would take a lot more than that.

Therefore I stand by my point on the game demands.

I agree, but this game pretty much demands you should be.

It is a full blown management sim after all.

Hard to imagine walking into a football club, chucking shirts around, sitting in the dugout and watching your team win the EPL (or whatever)

Rather think it would take a lot more than that.

Therefore I stand by my point on the game demands.

Yeah I know, I already started to complain around 2000, so guess I accepted that fact. There are no alternatives anyways, so it's for no reason.

It's hard to see the logic behavior of those tactical built ups though, I'd like to see it more oriented. ( region based )

Like why would I tell my players to play the ball to the feet, when its a common used preference in a good amount of teams ( shout box ). It's should be incorporated to the main tactic.

I like the attacking, rough em up and stuff...but some of it should be a part of the style in the tactic, I hope that arrives one day.

Sorry, what?

Under your manager details, there are stats for tactical consistence. But it probably only apply to formation, which is bugged anyways.

Yeah I know, I already started to complain around 2000, so guess I accepted that fact. There are no alternatives anyways, so it's for no reason.

It's hard to see the logic behavior of those tactical built ups though, I'd like to see it more oriented. ( region based )

Like why would I tell my players to play the ball to the feet, when its a common used preference in a good amount of teams ( shout box ). It's should be incorporated to the main tactic.

I like the attacking, rough em up and stuff...but some of it should be a part of the style in the tactic, I hope that arrives one day.

Strictly speaking, playing the ball to feet should be part of the training routines shouldn’t it ? Tactics are developed over a long period by training players in the manner you want the game played.

No disrespect, but if, for example Spurs want to play long ball at Peter Crouch, that doesn’t just happen on the day. The players need to be coached on where to be and what to do when a tactic like that is employed.

Guess it calls into question the whole tactics thing really. Maybe the focus within the game is slanted in the wrong direction.

To be able to yell from the bench and make a difference, assume the players have been coached to adopt that tactic.

Sorry getting a bit technical here, but I have been a Manager for over 25 years, so I tend to look at these things from the real world perspective.

The obvious answer is that i'll be sacked anyway within a month. The good finish upped expectations from the board AND the players and the failing of the tactic is so massive that if i had the time, i would have to completely overhaul and would have no idea where to start, because i have no idea why it has completely stopped being effective?

In the first season i was murdering top teams home and away as well as the weaker teams, i think in 40 odd games i was outplayed twice and even then it was only after having a player sent off or having to field unfit players due to injuries and such.

play the game normal change your tactics hire better staff ect.

Given the amount of work SI and the contributors to the tactical forum have put into making FM tactics real world and dynamic, this post makes me really sad. Do we really want a game in which you set up a single tactic, press continue and win?

No, absolutely not, well not me anyway, i have always wanted to play the game in what i believe to be the correct way and that is using slightly different methods, strategys and shouts etc, depending on who you are playing and/or home and away, as well as going out to look for that late equaliser or shutting up shop to see out a slender lead in the last few minutes.

I even started a thread about it in the T&T Forum, guess how many replies i had?

Well, after giving myself time to cool off, i decided to carry on with the game and things are looking a little better.

I'm still 19th in the EPL, but have now won 2 and lost 6 and amazingly have won my first 3 Champions League games against Galatassaray, Roma and FC Bayern, still using the tactic from last season.

Looking back i noticed just what a difficult fixture list we started season 2 with.

A Chelsea

H Spurs

A Arsenal

H Man City

A Man Utd

H Liverpool

A Everton

We now have some easier fixtures to come(hopefully) so i'm going to continue for now, although christmas will be tough with all the reverse fixtures of those games above to come.

I'll probably win the CL and get relegated this year.

I have just finished 2nd with West Ham in my first season. Losing out on the title to Liverpool by 2 points! Only player I have signed so far is BenHaim in January for £1. Obinna was amazing so tried to sign him for the agreed price of £3m but his agent kept saying he is not willing to discuss a new contract. Really annoying as he is back at Inter now and worth £7m and they are not willing to sell him.

I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that teams have adapted to your success.

For example - you say you ripped Manchester United apart Home & Away last season. Well Man Utd aren't going to want that to happen again so given your over achievement the previous season they will generally be more defensive against you. This means tweaks are required in order to break them down. Unfortunately I've noticed that a lot of the time FM's way of doing this is to make your team play like rubbish.

Unfortunately I'm not tactically proficient enough to advise you on what to change to help you succeed.

Tweaking tactics is needed for me. here is why.

The tale of the tape..............

Home tactics for majority of season until decline.

Notice that my three central players in midfield, are all capable of each position but have different preferred moves. If one is playing better than others then they rotate into the position bostock currently sits in as the deep lying playmaker. Again a tweak is needed.

The mentality

However sometimes my ass man says teams do well against/ struggle against different width tempo. so..............

Sometimes am struggling to keep ball in a match, switch shorter passing, and then next game make the tweak to try and get passing success up again.

At home i prefer to play inside left foward, but away i prefer winger attack. so again a tweak is needed.

Finally in the championship playoffs my form had collapsed and tactic wasnt paying off. Switched to 442 and won in the final against a very strong stoke team.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6721/sheffwedvstokeinformati.png

So tweaked regularly and got there eventually despite the collapse my team experienced in the last 11 games.

here is my tactical consistency.