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diamonddark
13-11-2010, 23:18
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

KUBI
13-11-2010, 23:22
Not bad. I guess your other 3 posts are all bugs report? :)

Hershie
13-11-2010, 23:25
So you've been on about these numerous bugs; care to name any?

You could be in politics with that level of vagueness and in taking half a page when a sentence will do. :thup:

scholes=legend
13-11-2010, 23:26
Stop buying the game completely then...

SnakeXe
13-11-2010, 23:27
It really wasn't unplayable either on 11.0 or 11.1, I don't know what you're on about.

ChewyFun
13-11-2010, 23:30
It's impossible for a game like FM, with such a huge amount of data and variables (no two saves are the same) to be completely bug free. I think SI do a great job, if the game was made by EA or Ubisoft there would be no patches and it'd probably be unplayable.

Hershie
13-11-2010, 23:32
It really wasn't unplayable either on 11.0 or 11.1, I don't know what you're on about.
Exactly. There are thousands upon thousands playing and enjoying this fine game, myself included, while a few dozen seem intent on whinging and turning the fact there are a few niggles (that are known about and being worked on) into the biggest software bug ever etc etc..

Perhaps unplayable = I can't play well.

Collio
13-11-2010, 23:36
This is a great game (with a few small bug that ive noticed) now if it is THAT unplayable dont play it and stop whineing.... name one game that comes close to emulating the beautiful game?

Martyr1777
13-11-2010, 23:36
Not bad. I guess your other 3 posts are all bugs report? :)

Come on... no one can come around and honestly say releasing a sports game every year at full price isn't abusive. At most they are expansions especially in FM's case. mostly they are only database changes relating to the real movements of players and league/team changes.

Granted they did change more in FM11 then I expected, but most of those changes are breaks to the MLS which worked perfectly in FM10. In updating it they broke quite a few areas of it.

As for whats actually new in the game, most notably there are agents, which are another level of bad AI to further confuse the player and management broken AI's in the transfer system. Then there is the Match Prep and individual training, both good additions and reasonably well implemented. Most of all though the ME graphical update is very nice I have to say and there aren't as many AI issues in the ME as I used to see in FM10.

That still doesn't constitute a full game price however, especially considering how many more bugs there are since FM10.

The sport video game model is stupid and so are the people that follow it without asking questions, to be perfectly honest.

Regardless of how it's released, when you release a new game every year, of course it's going to be bugged to hell and back. Because not only do you only have a year to create whatever newness you want, half of SI's FM people are working on patching the latest release and not working on the new one.

All around the entire concept is just stupid but companies stick to it because it's easy money thanks to ignorant consumers.

Hershie
13-11-2010, 23:38
If you don't think it's worth the money - don't buy it.

Something you can spend hundreds of hours on without ever getting bored is pretty good for £25, don't you think?

Carmi88
13-11-2010, 23:44
instead of wasting time with a thread slating the game, why not stick to the bug reporting section, and help it get bug free

KUBI
13-11-2010, 23:47
All around the entire concept is just stupid but companies stick to it because it's easy money thanks to ignorant consumers.

They don't force anyone to buy it. If you think its not worth after playing the demo, wait another year, download a data update for FM2010 or even CM01/02 and play the old one. I think it's worth to pay for it and I would even pay more, as I do not play any other game that extensive as FM and after playing FM2011 I don't want to go back to FM2010 anymore, because Fm2011 is the better game in my opinion.

toon army 06
13-11-2010, 23:53
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

name the bugs but wait your 1 of these 1s that can't acept the bad stuff in the game right like your players misses the goal ect.

Emanuel Sá
14-11-2010, 00:25
If you guys want the yearly update on features and database 50 Euros seems to be pretty reasonable, there are people doing that update and working on those features that need to be paid for their hard work, i bet most of you (us) usually pay the same for a "regular" game (like uncharted, killzone, halo) which can last up to 10 hours of playability, when in here the playability is infinite....

And like most people said, if you're not having fun, you need to look elsewhere, or at least help making this one better, reporting said bugs you experience, they constantly show their support here on the forums and with the updates...

Jam_Man
14-11-2010, 00:29
Come on... no one can come around and honestly say releasing a sports game every year at full price isn't abusive. At most they are expansions especially in FM's case. mostly they are only database changes relating to the real movements of players and league/team changes.

Granted they did change more in FM11 then I expected, but most of those changes are breaks to the MLS which worked perfectly in FM10. In updating it they broke quite a few areas of it.

As for whats actually new in the game, most notably there are agents, which are another level of bad AI to further confuse the player and management broken AI's in the transfer system. Then there is the Match Prep and individual training, both good additions and reasonably well implemented. Most of all though the ME graphical update is very nice I have to say and there aren't as many AI issues in the ME as I used to see in FM10.

That still doesn't constitute a full game price however, especially considering how many more bugs there are since FM10.

The sport video game model is stupid and so are the people that follow it without asking questions, to be perfectly honest.

Regardless of how it's released, when you release a new game every year, of course it's going to be bugged to hell and back. Because not only do you only have a year to create whatever newness you want, half of SI's FM people are working on patching the latest release and not working on the new one.

All around the entire concept is just stupid but companies stick to it because it's easy money thanks to ignorant consumers.

If as you say the game isnt normally much different to the years before you dont have to buy it.

I personally love having the game released and updated yearly and happily pay for it, if you arent then carry on playing last years.

As for this game, other than an issue with red cards I find the game perfectly playable as it is.

underwater sunlight
14-11-2010, 01:01
i played over 700 hours of football manager 10 according to steam, so for £30 i'd say thats amazing value for money. i would never get remotely close to that with any other football management game, and even with the online modes i would never get near those hours with fifa/pes.
as far as glorified data updates go, this is one that is definitely worth paying money for.

Willis
14-11-2010, 01:37
To be honest, I used to be one of the types who would defend the game at all costs, justifying my reasons for purchase in spite of seeing many people complain about bugs.

This year, though, I'm at the point where I just can't find the motivation to play a game that falls short in a number of fundamental areas.

I used to hate listening to people say the game is unplayable until the major patch comes around, but I'm starting to think they may be right. The fact that I can't tutor any young player with a modicum of talent (unless they are really young, unheard of and undeveloped) has more or less ruined the experience for me. Couple that with a transfer system which allows you to pick up stars for next to nothing and a training system which doesn't yield appropriate results, and I just can't get into the game at all this year. It's great to see that they've attempted to build on the game in a number of areas, but really, they haven't been refined to a great enough extent, and as such, the current version of the game is somewhat underwhelming.

I'm sure a number of you will simply sit back and say I must be bad at the game, but the match engine isn't my problem, it's just that there are a number of things outside of it which are destroying my enjoyment of the game, and I can't reallly look past them at the moment. If you're enjoying the game, then that's great, but I'll move on to some other video games for now, and return to this one once the next patch is released.

By the way, I have no issue with the price or the structure of release, my concern is only with the quality of the offering.

r0x0r
14-11-2010, 11:40
Come on... no one can come around and honestly say releasing a sports game every year at full price isn't abusive. At most they are expansions especially in FM's case. mostly they are only database changes relating to the real movements of players and league/team changes.

Firstly, abusive or not, it is the industry standard. Hell, these days enough game series get a yearly new release, let alone something like a sports game where it's called for.

Secondly, as an "A list game" that tends to win awards, top sales charts and can justify prime time TV advertising, it's priced closer to an expansion than it is a new game. FM is always available for £30, often for £20 or so if you look around. Contrast that to whichever CoD came out last. I know MW2 cost me around £45-£50, and would have still been £35-£40 wherever I looked close to release.

Thirdly, if you feel the game is just a data update, then why not just download a third party data update free of charge?

Neji
14-11-2010, 11:47
The sport video game model is stupid and so are the people that follow it without asking questions, to be perfectly honest.

How many hours do you get out of FM each year? I know for me, it more than justifies 25 quid every year. Same with FIFA, the amount of hours spent on both games make a mockery of the cost.

Compare with something like COD, because I have no interest on playing it online, I'd get around 8 hours (and that's being generous). It would also cost me more than FM. That means that while I enjoy the single player, I ain't going to fork out 30-40 quid on it.

At the end of the day, if you don't think it's worth the outlay, then don't buy it. Do as r0x0r said, and just update FM10.

GillsMan
14-11-2010, 11:59
Unplayable is the most misused word in these forums. The game has bugs, yes. Is it unplayable? No. Faaaaaaar from it. As 19 hours of game time in just over a week would tend to suggest that it's perfectly playable.

dafuge
14-11-2010, 12:14
Every year there is a free demo released which you can download to decide if you think the new version is worth buying. If, after playing the demo, you think it isn't worth it, don't buy it.

Personally I know I'll get amazing value from FM. Assuming I paid £30 for the game, my FM2011 game is already working out at 75p for an hour playing. My FM2010 game would have worked out at around 2p an hour :D

clonerohin1
14-11-2010, 12:24
It's impossible for a game like FM, with such a huge amount of data and variables (no two saves are the same) to be completely bug free. I think SI do a great job, if the game was made by EA or Ubisoft there would be no patches and it'd probably be unplayable.

Agreed 100% mate.

I also own a copy of this year's FIFA 11, and while it's brilliant (Nex-Gen) compared to last year's installment, the Manager Mode in it is riddled with gamebreaking bugs!!! Most of them were reported last year on the consoles (since FIFA 11 PC is a direct port of FIFA 10 console), but EA were sitting on their lazy bums for a whole year without solving any of those!!! And no support whatsoever on when a patch fix will be available. When they did release a patch, it intoduced a few more bugs, without solving any... :P

Fact: SI is way better than EA, and this game is way better than any other footy management sim out there.

SmurfDude
14-11-2010, 12:27
You think £30 is an obscene amount of money for a game? People spend more on a night out for crying out loud

SnakeXe
14-11-2010, 12:30
Unplayable is the most misused word in these forums. The game has bugs, yes. Is it unplayable? No. Faaaaaaar from it. As 19 hours of game time in just over a week would tend to suggest that it's perfectly playable.
59 hours :cool:

tigerhgrrrrrr
14-11-2010, 12:37
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

Here is a short answer:

If SI said to the Community on 4th Nov, "chaps, there are some bugs and we are working on a patch but to solve all issues we will need to delay the release for 3 weeks - or we can release it now and you can have the patch as soon as it is ready?"...I would bet my "crown jewels" that the majority would want product release immediately.

I quantify this rather fluffy reply because I am of the opinion that there are no "game breaker" bugs - if there are I may change my mind.

Sunlock
14-11-2010, 12:42
instead of wasting time with a thread slating the game, why not stick to the bug reporting section, and help it get bug free

Well he did mention it, and stated there was no progress what so ever.



there are no "game breaker" bugs

The transfer system is becoming a growing problem, along with other problems. All together, I can see why the original poster had enough.

I feel the same way, I still have fun though, despite the problems. But the fact that ongoing issues are not fixed on long term basis, but only graphical candy is released. It sure is a growing problem.

They incorporate more interacting, instead of fixing what is already broken.

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 12:43
Hold on why is the opening poster getting trashed, he is a consumer, he paid the money for the game and is entitled to give his feedback.

This release of FM is bordering on disgraceful and it feels very rushed and lazy.

The transfer system and the fact that I have been able to buy 6 of the best players in europe for a combined sum of around £35 million makes this game pointless at the moment as it is far too easy to turn an average team into world beaters.

Dicko99
14-11-2010, 12:48
the OP has a point, we will have to wait till christmas now for the 3RD PATCH. 2 patches in a already lol and there are still bugs. the game isnt unplayable like the OP states but it is less enjoyable with these bugs.

Kingmanager2
14-11-2010, 13:00
This is probably the most playable FM SI have released in years - the major game breaking bugs were fixed within a couple of weeks

tingting
14-11-2010, 13:08
Here is a short answer:

If SI said to the Community on 4th Nov, "chaps, there are some bugs and we are working on a patch but to solve all issues we will need to delay the release for 3 weeks - or we can release it now and you can have the patch as soon as it is ready?"...I would bet my "crown jewels" that the majority would want product release immediately.

I quantify this rather fluffy reply because I am of the opinion that there are no "game breaker" bugs - if there are I may change my mind.

Are you sure you want to lose your "crown jewels"? Because if SI said that they needed some more time to fix all issues and presented the alternative of a bugged patch release, majority of the users would have opted to wait for three weeks rather than two months

TheGulls
14-11-2010, 13:31
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.


I think the game is very well priced considering the hours I put in to it, yes there are bugs but the game is not unplayable and surely you downloaded the demo first before making your decision, dont you think its good that SI let you try before you buy. So basically if your unhappy with the game why did you buy the full product ? Why do you never respond even on your own thread ? And what is the answer, why do SI release such a horribly bugged game (seeing as you already know).

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 14:01
This is probably the most playable FM SI have released in years - the major game breaking bugs were fixed within a couple of weeks

The transfer system is a shambles though and renders the game pointless

wazza
14-11-2010, 14:30
Am I living in another world or something, what major bugs are there that make the game unplayable. I have come across a few minor cosmetic bugs in the game that I have reported to the bugs forum but nothing major.
As for the game been boring I have normally found my first season at a club in all other FM games boring as it isnt really my team but in FM2011 the new training schedules, match prepartion and agents it has made it far more fun and enjoyable. So I dont know what th OP is talking about

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 14:38
wazza the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy, those players request transfers and the AI clubs sell them for next to nothing. Where is the challenge when you can by 5 or 6 of the best players in europe for a total of around £30-£35 million pounds?

Dicko99
14-11-2010, 14:39
Am I living in another world or something, what major bugs are there that make the game unplayable.

taking off your SI blinkers might help :thup:

dafuge
14-11-2010, 14:46
wazza the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy, those players request transfers and the AI clubs sell them for next to nothing. Where is the challenge when you can by 5 or 6 of the best players in europe for a total of around £30-£35 million pounds?

That doesn't sound good.

At least some of the people who were complaining last year might be happy ;)

wazza
14-11-2010, 14:52
wazza the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy, those players request transfers and the AI clubs sell them for next to nothing. Where is the challenge when you can by 5 or 6 of the best players in europe for a total of around £30-£35 million pounds?

Are you using the player interaction correctly and checking the personalities of the players before you respond. I use this all of the time and just completing my 2nd season and none of my players have become unhappy at all. I used the basis of the guide from FM2010 even though it is FM2011 to try and get a good responses from them and to keep morale up Guess Im good at man management!!! I have just purchased the guide on squad management for FM2011 but as it is 108 pages I havnt had time to look at it yet, so thats why I used what I remembered from the squad management and player interaction guide in FM2010

If there is a bug of been able to buy 5 - 6 of the best players in europe for £30 - £35 million pounds I have not come across it as I am managing Hearts in the SPL and my transfer budget doesnt stretch that far, so wouldnt know about it. Im sure these little things SI will sort out sooner rather than later.

wazza
14-11-2010, 14:53
taking off your SI blinkers might help :thup:

I dont have SI blinkers on, I can only comment on what I see in the game that I play.

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 14:58
Wazza,

Its nothing to do with my interaction with players its the AI managers. I will spell it out for you in the hope of you grasping it:

Step One - Player becomes unhappy with manager (not me a computer managed team)
Step two - As a result of the fall out the club lists player for an absurdly low fee (jack wilshere £5 million, Adebayor £5m, Edin Dzeko £8m, Mario Balotelli £10m, Fernando Llorente £8 million, Tevez £11 million)
Step three - Either they stay on the transfer list for ages with little or no interest which is at least bizarre or
Step four - Me or another team buys them for a very low fee.

When playing as a big team with a decent rep this makes the game far too easy to build up a good team.

For you to brand this a 'little' thing just shows an astounding level of ignorance on your part particularly as your post shows you seemingly do not have the mental capacity to work out the nature of the gripe in the first instance.

hth

wazza
14-11-2010, 15:27
Wazza,

Its nothing to do with my interaction with players its the AI managers. I will spell it out for you in the hope of you grasping it:

Step One - Player becomes unhappy with manager (not me a computer managed team)
Step two - As a result of the fall out the club lists player for an absurdly low fee (jack wilshere £5 million, Adebayor £5m, Edin Dzeko £8m, Mario Balotelli £10m, Fernando Llorente £8 million, Tevez £11 million)
Step three - Either they stay on the transfer list for ages with little or no interest which is at least bizarre or
Step four - Me or another team buys them for a very low fee.

When playing as a big team with a decent rep this makes the game far too easy to build up a good team.

For you to brand this a 'little' thing just shows an astounding level of ignorance on your part particularly as your post shows you seemingly do not have the mental capacity to work out the nature of the gripe in the first instance.

hth


It was you who stated in your post that the player interaction makes the players unhappy not me. you did not state in your post it was from the AI managers. Quote from your post 'the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy'. As I said in my post I have not come across the bug of the lower transfer fees in my game as I am managing in a different league where you cannot afford more than 1 million pound players. So it is in fact you who is been ignorant as I had already commented on this on my previous post that I have not come across it. Quote from my post 'If there is a bug of been able to buy 5 - 6 of the best players in europe for £30 - £35 million pounds I have not come across it as I am managing Hearts in the SPL and my transfer budget doesnt stretch that far, so wouldnt know about it. Im sure these little things SI will sort out sooner rather than later.'

So in future read the response correctly please

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 15:32
Actually wazza the full sentence which you have only posted part of read:

'wazza the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy, those players request transfers and the AI clubs sell them for next to nothing.'

Astounding :D And you have now confirmed that you are either incapable of reading or incapable of understanding what you read. I am opting for the latter.

Also if you have not experienced this how can you brand it 'a little thing' when it is actually ruining the whole game for me??

wazza
14-11-2010, 15:45
Actually wazza the full sentence which you have only posted part of read:

'wazza the fact that the player interaction makes players unhappy, those players request transfers and the AI clubs sell them for next to nothing.'

Astounding :D And you have now confirmed that you are either incapable of reading or incapable of understanding what you read. I am opting for the latter.

Also if you have not experienced this how can you brand it 'a little thing' when it is actually ruining the whole game for me??


Apologies you are correct I have misread your quote with regards to player interaction.

You are incorrect though and have misinterpreted me I have not branded the bug that you are talking about a little thing. What I have said is that I have not come across it as I have not got the transfer funds to look at larger transfer players. My transfer budget is only 200k so when I scout for players those of value above 200k are not picked up and as I am not playing in the English leagues I will not notice it. It also wouldnt come up on any news reports as I am in a different lower league and dont have large named players scouted as I know they wont be interested in coming to my club. Therefore I get no news items about these unrealistic transfers.

What I have said is that the bugs that I have seen are quote ' I have come across a few minor cosmetic bugs in the game that I have reported to the bugs forum but nothing major'. At not one point have I commented to you that your bug is minor I have said that the bugs that I have come across are minor. What you are not grasping is the fact that I have not come across the bug you are reffering to , I am not saying it doesnt exist as it obviously does and am sorry it is ruining your game. I can only comment on the game that I am playing not the one you are.

Therefore you are also incapable of reading or incapable of understanding what you read

Mahr
14-11-2010, 15:49
I just got my sheit poor club to build a training facility and the progress bar is bugged all filled up, but no upgrade received. GREAT.

interesti88
14-11-2010, 15:57
That doesn't sound good.

At least some of the people who were complaining last year might be happy ;)

That is so very true. Last year most FM players were crying that it was too hard to buy players, now its the total opposite.

Its kind of disgraceful how some people can't leave good enough alone.

We all know that it takes more than a couple of months to develop a computer software much less a PC game that has a huge database and very different on each individual save. So why complain about it if it wasn't noticed in the development stage? Yes you can buy C. Ronaldo for about $1 if he gets even a little upset(sarcasm), so what, if the AI is selling him for so cheap and you wish not to ruin the realism of the game just DON'T buy him and and he will probably stay with R. Madrid. Like someone said in these forums, SI is working on the next FM installation and also the latest patch for the game, and also their personal lives, so I for one doubt their robots and must make Football Manager to my exact liking and totally bug free. ITS JUST NOT POSSIBLE! Even in today's society where we are dependent on technology for everything. Bugs are going to be in the game because its totally impossible to find all of them before the release date and even if they did delay it they cannot know for sure whats going to happen in the game because it has so many codes, unless you want a static game like FIFA.

We all know they are working on the transfer bugs and other "game-breaking" bugs in the game right now even if they haven't told us yet. I, like a few other gamers here(presumably), like this year's version to last's. I think it has 1up FM10 in a few key areas, I would expand on this but it would impede on my FM11 playing time:D.

P.S. I know we are all entitled to our opinions, but when everyone keeps talking about the transfer bug in the general discussion forum it starts to get annoying, so please, if anyone else wants to discuss this glaringly world-ending bug(again sarcasm) please go to the FM Bugs section. Thank you

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 16:17
That is so very true. Last year most FM players were crying that it was too hard to buy players, now its the total opposite.

Its kind of disgraceful how some people can't leave good enough alone.

We all know that it takes more than a couple of months to develop a computer software much less a PC game that has a huge database and very different on each individual save. So why complain about it if it wasn't noticed in the development stage? Yes you can buy C. Ronaldo for about $1 if he gets even a little upset(sarcasm), so what, if the AI is selling him for so cheap and you wish not to ruin the realism of the game just DON'T buy him and and he will probably stay with R. Madrid. Like someone said in these forums, SI is working on the next FM installation and also the latest patch for the game, and also their personal lives, so I for one doubt their robots and must make Football Manager to my exact liking and totally bug free. ITS JUST NOT POSSIBLE! Even in today's society where we are dependent on technology for everything. Bugs are going to be in the game because its totally impossible to find all of them before the release date and even if they did delay it they cannot know for sure whats going to happen in the game because it has so many codes, unless you want a static game like FIFA.

We all know they are working on the transfer bugs and other "game-breaking" bugs in the game right now even if they haven't told us yet. I, like a few other gamers here(presumably), like this year's version to last's. I think it has 1up FM10 in a few key areas, I would expand on this but it would impede on my FM11 playing time:D.

P.S. I know we are all entitled to our opinions, but when everyone keeps talking about the transfer bug in the general discussion forum it starts to get annoying, so please, if anyone else wants to discuss this glaringly world-ending bug(again sarcasm) please go to the FM Bugs section. Thank you

Absolute drivel from start to finish (not sarcasm)

interesti88
14-11-2010, 16:21
I see you are a post-basher my friend, good for you

theboydonegood
14-11-2010, 16:27
I see you are a post-basher my friend, good for you

nah not really its just that your post was nonsense.

I for one am not bothered about little bugs we all accept that they happen but issues that can ruin the experience are unacceptable.

wazza
14-11-2010, 16:40
Absolute drivel from start to finish (not sarcasm)

Why is this drivel. He is just infroming you all how it is SI are working on the issues and to talk about them in the correct section on the site. That way SI can deal with them correctly.

interesti88
14-11-2010, 16:42
Nonsense you say? I'm managing Inter right now on my save and have yet to come across a big name player transfer listed because he is unhappy by something trivial. You said this game is borderline disgraceful because you aren't paying twice maybe triple his transfer value, but what would you say about last's year version? Disgusting?

wazza
14-11-2010, 16:42
nah not really its just that your post was nonsense.

I for one am not bothered about little bugs we all accept that they happen but issues that can ruin the experience are unacceptable.

Confused ! He is not talking about little bugs on his post, but the transfer bug you are on about.

StevoRobbo
14-11-2010, 17:06
That is so very true. Last year most FM players were crying that it was too hard to buy players, now its the total opposite.

Its kind of disgraceful how some people can't leave good enough alone.

We all know that it takes more than a couple of months to develop a computer software much less a PC game that has a huge database and very different on each individual save. So why complain about it if it wasn't noticed in the development stage? Yes you can buy C. Ronaldo for about $1 if he gets even a little upset(sarcasm), so what, if the AI is selling him for so cheap and you wish not to ruin the realism of the game just DON'T buy him and and he will probably stay with R. Madrid. Like someone said in these forums, SI is working on the next FM installation and also the latest patch for the game, and also their personal lives, so I for one doubt their robots and must make Football Manager to my exact liking and totally bug free. ITS JUST NOT POSSIBLE! Even in today's society where we are dependent on technology for everything. Bugs are going to be in the game because its totally impossible to find all of them before the release date and even if they did delay it they cannot know for sure whats going to happen in the game because it has so many codes, unless you want a static game like FIFA.

We all know they are working on the transfer bugs and other "game-breaking" bugs in the game right now even if they haven't told us yet. I, like a few other gamers here(presumably), like this year's version to last's. I think it has 1up FM10 in a few key areas, I would expand on this but it would impede on my FM11 playing time:D.

P.S. I know we are all entitled to our opinions, but when everyone keeps talking about the transfer bug in the general discussion forum it starts to get annoying, so please, if anyone else wants to discuss this glaringly world-ending bug(again sarcasm) please go to the FM Bugs section. Thank you

So you acknowledge that it takes more than a few months to make a game as complex as FM and you also acknowledge that they dont have enough time to find bugs because they have a deadline to adhere to for release.

If that wasnt an argument for releasing the game every 2 years then I dont know what is. The game should be released every 2 years with a database update released in the gap years. SI dont have enough time to test the game and we see that every year with all of the glaring problems. Dont get me wrong, im not saying if it was released every two years that it would be bug free but im guessing it would be in a better state than releasing it every year.

It will never happen because SI/SEGA are bothered about their wallets too much so unless they pull their heads out of the sand and sort it, its going to be the same every year. Just one of the things we have to get used to I suppose. Everybody should buy the game in March after the 3rd patch and then see if SI pull their finger out. No money for the game from October to March would seriously damage the development of the next game. Im sure if they had the pressure of releasing a less buggier game from the off for people to buy then they could do it but at the moment they are happy in their little cycle that they are in.

FudgePacker
14-11-2010, 17:12
So you acknowledge that it takes more than a few months to make a game as complex as FM and you also acknowledge that they dont have enough time to find bugs because they have a deadline to adhere to for release.

If that wasnt an argument for releasing the game every 2 years then I dont know what is. The game should be released every 2 years with a database update released in the gap years. SI dont have enough time to test the game and we see that every year with all of the glaring problems. Dont get me wrong, im not saying if it was released every two years that it would be bug free but im guessing it would be in a better state than releasing it every year.

It will never happen because SI/SEGA are bothered about their wallets too much so unless they pull their heads out of the sand and sort it, its going to be the same every year. Just one of the things we have to get used to I suppose. Everybody should buy the game in March after the 3rd patch and then see if SI pull their finger out. No money for the game from October to March would seriously damage the development of the next game. Im sure if they had the pressure of releasing a less buggier game from the off for people to buy then they could do it but at the moment they are happy in their little cycle that they are in.
I totally agree.
If SI don't have the time, then they shouldn't rush releases every year.
However, i doubt SI will implement this, it looks they are concerned more about their wallets rather than perfecting their software.
Every year we get unfinished, untested features and a godzillion of other problems/bugs because SI didn't have the time to test it out.

MrPompey
14-11-2010, 17:15
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

Thanks for your contribution over the last 5 years in pointing out issues...all 4 posts

I'd suggest you perhaps explain exactly what these defects are and post them in the bugs forum where they may be considered for fixing. Thanks very much

MrPompey
14-11-2010, 17:16
I totally agree.
If SI don't have the time, then they shouldn't rush releases every year.
However, i doubt SI will implement this, it looks they are concerned more about their wallets rather than perfecting their software.
Every year we get unfinished, untested features and a godzillion of other problems/bugs because SI didn't have the time to test it out.

Name me a better football management game with zero issues please?

interesti88
14-11-2010, 17:17
Steve, I see where you're going at and it might work. Releasing FM every 2 yrs and have patches in between might work if they were willing to do that and us as consumers are willing to accept it. SI could then release the updated patches for a fee as so they make a profit for SEGA. So win-win for everyone, far less bugs to complain about and they are still making money.

StevoRobbo
14-11-2010, 17:19
Name me a better football management game with zero issues please?

There isnt one. And maybe that is why SI/SEGA are happy to release the product in the state it is because people cant exactly defect to a rival game. Im sure if a game came along which could actually rival it then they would pull their finger out. They would have to. But at this point in time, they are in a win win situation because of their loyal fan base. They know they can release the game in whatever state and people will still buy it.

FudgePacker
14-11-2010, 17:23
Name me a better football management game with zero issues please?

Just because of customers like you, FM will never take a big step forward, it'll just tap in the same spot with the same issues year after year.
You want to say that just because all the other football management products are bigger ****, SI can release whatever they want as long as it sucks less.

Bravo.

Fuzzy Blue
14-11-2010, 17:27
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

Firstly i think to say that the game is over priced is just crazy. I personally get hundreds of hours of play from every FM release and that cant be bad for £25, can it?. Granted the game has its problems but i cant think of any game that gets released these days that works perfectly.

I do have to agree with 1 of your points though, this is the least fun I've ever had playing FM. For me the match engine needs alot of work, the huge number of fouls and the poor movement off the ball leads to matches feeling very disjointed. Players with RWB set to mixed never seem to carry the ball forward or take people on (even when the pitch opens up infront of them) and players shooting from distance with their wrong foot more often than not despite their position on the pitch are just a fw of the problems ive noticed. It's not that I've been losing, in fact I've had a great opening season with pompey. I won the league cup and am about to play my first leg of the play-off semi final but its been so much work to achieve this that alot of the fun of the game has been lost. Having to constantly tweak and change my tactics to counter the opposition, the pitch size, the weather and still try and play my players in their best position is a pain. I have to give SI credit for the realism they've instilled in the game. when i play I'm sour faced, stressed, frustrated and my hair is starting to go grey. Just like a real football manager lol. Hopefully the next patch will solve alot of these issues, and "just for men" will deal with the hair issue

Mrfish
14-11-2010, 19:08
SI have no intesion of releasing a perfect game, that would crush the sales of the next years game.

As in any other buisness they depend on a profit, therefore everything that works agains a profit will never ever be done. That is simply just against the system!

SI have to have new features every year, so they hold back on them to ensure future sales, (like with the static league reputation, it could probably have been done ages ago)

This is also why people each year whine about bugs, and why SI needs 3 patches to complete the game. The new features that are pushed out to ensure sales and interest are to big, and demands to much testing for it to go smooth in a year.

If my christmas wish comes true, SI will spend the next 2-3 or even 4 years only releasing database updates for 10 euros each year, and box themself in the office and make the perfect FM, implent all the features that are needed for this to be a good manager game, after that just release yearly database updates = that way everyone will be happy! apart from the people making the game ofc, since this will generate less money

This is not a rant, i love FM and will buy it every year, but as long as we live in a society where money rules, the customer will always get the short end! Always!

GillsMan
14-11-2010, 19:13
SI have no intesion of releasing a perfect game, that would crush the sales of the next years game.
I didn't read your whole post, but your first line is nonsense I'm afraid. What you're thinking of is something called built-in obsolescence and, while it might be relevant to a company manufacturing washing machines, it makes no sense to talk about in terms of a company making computer games. Particularly one that fits in a cyclical pattern such as FM (within a sports season).

MrPompey
14-11-2010, 19:19
Just because of customers like you, FM will never take a big step forward, it'll just tap in the same spot with the same issues year after year.
You want to say that just because all the other football management products are bigger ****, SI can release whatever they want as long as it sucks less.

Bravo.

Not at all. You might be surprised at my contribution. The fact that I d contribute by raising bugs and future features no doubt does. If you are just going to moan without giving a detailed list of your issues how can it help. If you are that upset just sell your game on ebay. If you want to raise issues then do so in the bugs forum

If the game was poor then people wouldn't buy it. Check out it where it sits in the pC games charts, check out the amazon feedback...clearly some people feel different to you

Mrfish
14-11-2010, 19:22
I didn't read your whole post, but your first line is nonsense I'm afraid. What you're thinking of is something called built-in obsolescence and, while it might be relevant to a company manufacturing washing machines, it makes no sense to talk about in terms of a company making computer games. Particularly one that fits in a cyclical pattern such as FM (within a sports season).

It is probably a bit incorrect to say that FM have built-in obsolescence i agree. But if you would read my whole post you will find that the obsolescence in the game revolves around the fact that you have to release a new game with new features every year to ensure sales. When the product could be much better if you spendt 2-3 years on the new features and only release database updates yearly.


When you release a new game with new features the previous game goes out of style, and becomes obsolete. The old game still works perfect, but its not wanted anymore because there is a new game out with new features- This is something called style-obsolescence.

Emanuel Sá
14-11-2010, 19:32
SI have no intesion of releasing a perfect game, that would crush the sales of the next years game.

As in any other buisness they depend on a profit, therefore everything that works agains a profit will never ever be done. That is simply just against the system!

SI have to have new features every year, so they hold back on them to ensure future sales, (like with the static league reputation, it could probably have been done ages ago)

This is also why people each year whine about bugs, and why SI needs 3 patches to complete the game. The new features that are pushed out to ensure sales and interest are to big, and demands to much testing for it to go smooth in a year.

If my christmas wish comes true, SI will spend the next 2-3 or even 4 years only releasing database updates for 10 euros each year, and box themself in the office and make the perfect FM, implent all the features that are needed for this to be a good manager game, after that just release yearly database updates = that way everyone will be happy! apart from the people making the game ofc, since this will generate less money

This is not a rant, i love FM and will buy it every year, but as long as we live in a society where money rules, the customer will always get the short end! Always!

I highly doubt anyone would be happy to wait 4 years for new features, since 01/02 i always get tired of the game by July/August, that happens because i already know the game inside out to be able to achieve the desired results, new features that make the game more complex are always welcome, they renew my will to play the game, it's always a new challenge.

I must say that database is not the most important to me, i usually stay around 10 seasons in each team i play with and by then the game is full of regens, playing with real life players is not much of a key feature than new features is.

Suge
14-11-2010, 19:35
Do you know how hard it is to adequately manifest a realistic football game? Considering the array of difficultly I think SI are doing a pretty bang up job.

Mrfish
14-11-2010, 19:49
In most gaming series there is at least a few years in between new releases, game add ons and DLCs wich they sell for a fraction of the full game price keeps people happy while they wait.

But i do agree Emanuel, the FM users are spoiled with new features every year, i camp out forums 6 montsh before the new version is released simply because i cant wait to get my hands on it. SI really got us in their pawn there :D

But this also means people have to deal with the bugs, wich was the point if the discussion to begin with. Its important to post bugs on the forum, and discuss them. But whines and rants are not!! People need to understand that they cant have it both ways :) new features every year = bugs


@Suge- if that was for me: They are doing a great job, do not get me wrong. But even the mighty SI cant do the impossible :)

tingting
15-11-2010, 03:17
Check out it where it sits in the pC games charts, check out the amazon feedback...clearly some people feel different to you

This for a game which tries to educate us that stats are not everything. Did you even consider that less than 25 percent of those who bought the game participate in the forums and less than that bother to comment on the game at Amazon of all the places. A better barometer regarding the satisfaction of the consumers can be found here on the forums where there are a number of threads regarding the problems and frustrations associated with the game or do you believe that a small minority have created multiple usernames and are posting all the threads?

SI is indeed one of the best (stick my neck and say the best) games developer regarding their willingness to listen to what their consumers have got to say. And there is no doubt that they are the undisputed kings in the footie sim market and produce a far better game compared to EA and Eidos. However is SI satisfied to be ahead of EA and Eidos? If so then the same cycle of three patches a game will continue for the next few years unless both the other companies realize that SI is resting on its past laurels and they have a great chance of closing down the gap.

BossAsianMafia
15-11-2010, 05:45
Without a viable competitor in the marketplace, it's unlikely there will ever be sufficient consumer pressure to force SI to change their business model (release in Oct with a few new features, 3 patches till Feb, repeat annually).
That's just a fact of life. There's no use moaning about it.

Nevertheless SI has the incentive to get it right at first release as any delay in purchase might affect their cash-flow as people will purchase it in Feb rather than Oct in the future.
I think in general SI have released playable products (not necessarily enjoyable :p), so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the near future.

Lindhoffen
15-11-2010, 08:36
I am surprised, nay, flabbergasted of the sheer idiocy and ignorance this thread is containing. SI releases the best FM in a decade and people still has the audacity to moan and whine like little children. My 2-year old daughter is more mature than some of you people. And for the OP, words cannot describe what I felt when I read your post. But it was something akin to travelling through time and waking up alone on an asteroid.




Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?


I'm sure you've sent in bug reports on these "horrible" bugs of yours? Or this might be the time for you to visit specsavers.



Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.


In case you're not aware of this fact of life there is no games developer that solely rely on reports and feedback from their forum. I'm sure they appreciate all the reports they get but it's not just from the forums. I'm usually enjoying the game and letting someone else do the bug hunting.



As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been.


Care to share your inner secret why it's not fun? I'm sure SI would like to know at least.

sheeshy
15-11-2010, 09:40
This is a bit rhetorical, but I want to voice my concern and rant anyway.

Why do you release such a horribly bugged game?

Many spend, what I believe to be an obscene amount of money on what is effectively an update on last years game (should be no more than a tenner download + 2005 ownership), only to have to wait and wait for it to be fixed.

Spending hours on forums, posting bugs, waiting for reply's and then waiting for you to collate the information from your guinea pigs (us) before starting work on fixes, is no fun and is quite insulting.

I haven't bought the game since 2006 as I found the interface logistics horribly complicated and bugs intolerable, but gave 2011 a chance as I thought you MUST have had long enough to perfect the engine.... ... ..

You simply could not have released this game if we weren't connected to the net..it's unplayable.

As for the game itself, minus the bugs. It's the least fun it's ever been. I think you need to look back to 00/01 CM days and gain a little inspiration from some of the elements from that game.
I know you can't go back to that format, as it's too simplistic, but it was a lot more fun, more engaging, less boring and easier to play.

Rant over.

That's what has really upset you here.

PoolFan
15-11-2010, 12:38
Care to share your inner secret why it's not fun? I'm sure SI would like to know at least.

Honestly I agree with the OP.

FM is just losing it's way, new features are being added to the game that don't add anything to the experience. I honestly think SI have lost their way, the previous incarnations of CM/FM were way more fun. The latest releases are just bogged down in so much needless detail that honestly serves no purpose, that it becomes a chore to play.

The strengths of CM/FM has always been in the database and enabling people to build squads and get a feeling of accomplishment from getting your tactics right. There is WAY too much fluff in the game that slows everything down.

The whole morale/press interaction/team talks are getting worse and worse with every new release. Honestly this either needs to refined a LOT or simply tossed out. You spend so much time trying to play mystic meg with players morale it ruins the game. The implementation of agents is imo something else that adds nothing to the game, it's just yet another clicking chore that again has you playing mystic meg and guessing what the player/agent wants. It doesn't help that the whole morale/interaction is so unintuitive people are guessing what the hell most of the replies mean and have little or no idea what effect they have on the team.

I honestly feel in SI's quest to introduce new features they have lost sight of what made CM series a success in the first place. Realism is good, but it should NEVER get in the way of making a game fun and enjoyable. Before someone throws in the line 'you just want the game made easier', I don't! I want the game to be fun and engaging and NOT some sort of marathon click session where I spend more time trying to decipher player interactions than I do looking at the matches.

So in summary:

1. Sort out the whole interaction system with players and how it effects your team. Make it intuitive NOT some bizzare weird mystic meg lame psychological exercise that nobody but the programmers seem to understand.

2. Concentrate on what people like, building squads, training new players, working youngsters through the club.

3. Continue working on the match engine, providing USEFUL feedback that players can use to adjust their tactics. For example your assistant manager comments during the game are beyond useless.

4. Add in options to speed up the game. You can already have your assistant manager do teamtalks/press conferences, but they are so awful you are handicapping yourself if you do. Fix this!

5. For the love of god, chain one of the Collyer brothers to a PC and have them write a official guide so FINALLY people at least have a point of reference as to where to start. The shear amount of supposition on these forums is insane, most of which have ZERO point of reference from a official source.

Lindhoffen
15-11-2010, 12:54
I'm glad you actually could explain why you think it's losing its way. I see a lot of people here complaining about all sorts of things but they never explain their reasons. A breathe of fresh air, if I might say, to see that you actually took the time to reason a bit.


The latest releases are just bogged down in so much needless detail that honestly serves no purpose, that it becomes a chore to play.

What needless details are those? I haven't seen any needless details at least. The things I've seen as a chore I've given to my assistants to take care of which makes life easier for me.



The whole morale/press interaction is getting worse and worse with every new release. Honestly this even needs to refined a LOT or simply tossed out. You spend so much time trying to play mystic meg with players morale it ruins the game. The implementation of agents is imo something else that adds nothing to the game, it's just yet another clicking chore that again has you playing mystic meg and guessing what the player/agent wants.

Press interaction hasn't changed much from previous years so how you can think it's getting worse I don't know. I usually don't interact with a player unless an assistant asks me to or if there is a solid reason for me to do it. Maybe it's designed that way and players in general want to have the option to talk to their players more often without any noteworthy negative consequences. I agree the discussions become a bit robotic at times and the reactions from players become silly, but I'm sure that is something that will be looked at.

As for the agents, I've never played "mystic meg" with either them or journalists. It clearly states what kind of personality the agent/journalist has and that dictates what kind of responses you might receive. I'm sure this also applies to the player you want to interact with btw. I definitely don't think the agents are a "clicking chore" because it makes the whole transfer part more realistic, at least for me. A middle-man with his own agenda who only cares about himself.

TSH
15-11-2010, 13:00
Every year there is a free demo released which you can download to decide if you think the new version is worth buying. If, after playing the demo, you think it isn't worth it, don't buy it.


I don't understand why people keep saying that.

Most of the serious bugs or unbalances can't be figured out by a sixth month demo. It doesn't even reflect transfer AI.

Playing the demo works the other way around. It is a tool that generally makes people buy the game, not turn them away from it.

It's marketing 101.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 13:14
I don't understand why people keep saying that.

Most of the serious bugs or unbalances can't be figured out by a sixth month demo. It doesn't even reflect transfer AI.

Playing the demo works the other way around. It is a tool that generally makes people buy the game, not turn them away from it.

It's marketing 101.

If you know that, why do you keep on buying the new FM?
Just to complain each year about all the new bugs?

Maybe skip the next FM?

It's common sense 101

TSH
15-11-2010, 13:34
If you know that, why do you keep on buying the new FM?
Just to complain each year about all the new bugs?

Maybe skip the next FM?

It's common sense 101

I buy it because I love football, I love management games and it's the best one around.

That doesn't mean that I'm blinded to its faults.

Why do you keep on praising it when there's so many things wrong with it?

Maybe stop posting against people with valid complaints and go play the game since you are happy with it?

Is that a difficult common sense course to take?

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 13:41
I buy it because I love football, I love management games and it's the best one around.
But still unplayable according to 1 of your previous posts.
So the best game in its genre is unplayable according to you.




Why do you keep on praising it when there's so many things wrong with it?
Why can't you praise something when there is something wrong with it?
You just did:
'Its the best one around"
So you keep on praising FM when there's so many things wrong with it yourself...
Please tell me why you are saying I can't do something you do yourself.


Maybe stop posting against people with valid complaints and go play the game since you are happy with it?
I'm at work and can't play right now.
I'm not complaining against people having valid complaints (people posting bugs in the bugs section of this forum). I'm just getting tired of the attention whores in this section of the forum, that's all.


Is that a difficult common sense course to take?
Not at all; but I really would suggest you skip FM12. Or at least postpone purchase until march.
What are the odds you will be back 15/11/2011 with 'FM12 is unplayable, FM11 is so much better'
Pretty high, I reckon.

Well, back to work for me and then some FM11 tonight.
:thup:

Robbie 78
15-11-2010, 13:47
To the guy who started this thread:

A game which such a large database is always going to have some bugs and mistakes in it when its first released, luckily SI do listen to us the consumers and do continually improve the game with patches and fixes. Its a small price to pay in my opinion for such a great adictive game. Count yourself lucky SI think so much of you, if it were EA you would be lucky to get any patch or fix, at least for free anyway.

TSH
15-11-2010, 14:09
But still unplayable according to 1 of your previous posts.
So the best game in its genre is unplayable according to you.

It is. Why is that so hard to believe?





Why can't you praise something when there is something wrong with it?
You just did:
'Its the best one around"
So you keep on praising FM when there's so many things wrong with it yourself...
Please tell me why you are saying I can't do something you do yourself.

You can. You are the who told me to stop buying it if I don't like it. I love the series but when there are major bugs that make it unplayble I won't be blind to them. On the other hand, you can also praise it for the good things. The fact that it has good things doesn't make it playable for people who want a realistic experience. If you can't accept that then it's your problem.



I'm at work and can't play right now.
I'm not complaining against people having valid complaints (people posting bugs in the bugs section of this forum). I'm just getting tired of the attention whores in this section of the forum, that's all.

A complaint is different than posting bugs. I don't have the time to post bugs, I want my game to function properly. I know there will be some bugs but when these bugs make my experience not realistic (as advertised and as realistic this game can get) then I will certainly post my complaints.

For my part I am also getting tired -as you are- of people defending the game illogically and attacking other people, like you did. Telling me not to buy the game is not a constructive argument to defend the game, it's just a cheap shot.



Not at all; but I really would suggest you skip FM12. Or at least postpone purchase until march.
What are the odds you will be back 15/11/2011 with 'FM12 is unplayable, FM11 is so much better'
Pretty high, I reckon.

If it has bugs that make my experience not realistic, which for me means unplayable since this is a simulation, I will of course express my complaints next year too.

TSH
15-11-2010, 14:16
To the guy who started this thread:

A game which such a large database is always going to have some bugs and mistakes in it when its first released, luckily SI do listen to us the consumers and do continually improve the game with patches and fixes. Its a small price to pay in my opinion for such a great adictive game. Count yourself lucky SI think so much of you, if it were EA you would be lucky to get any patch or fix, at least for free anyway.

Yes, it will have bugs. But when it always has bugs that stop me from enjoying the game, like the transfer bug or the player interactions (this year), of course I will complain since I paid money for it.

SI supports its games like almost no other company, that's true. But they need to produce -first and foremost- an end product that offers what the box says. They don't, and they haven't done this year also. You may be fine with so many bugs that result in a major unrealistic environment but I'm not. Having the transfer AI being so broken is the equivalent of Halo enemies not using vehicles. Sure, it wouldn't make make the game literally unplayable but who would enjoy such a single player campaign with such a glorious problem? None who want a proper game experience.

The same principle applies to FM also.

A new feature in the series has never -NEVER- worked as intended from the get go. That is not a good track record for SI.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 14:26
TSH;
bottom line is this: the way a lot of people are being a drama queen about FM09-10-11 is simply over the top.
It makes them sound like spoiled brats.
It's the manner, not the act itself.

'Yeah, it's the best but still unplayabale'
How do you expect to be taken serious with such statements?

'Yeah, sure, Messi is the best, but still I wouldn't play him if I was a manager.'

Get some perspective into your complaints and people will start to listen iso being annoyed by your elitist attitude ("It might be Ok for you casual gamers, but not for me, I want full realisme as advertised").

I guess we both want FM to be perfect, seems we only disagree about how perfect it now is and how to make it even better.

TSH
15-11-2010, 14:45
TSH;
bottom line is this: the way a lot of people are being a drama queen about FM09-10-11 is simply over the top.
It makes them sound like spoiled brats.
It's the manner, not the act itself.

'Yeah, it's the best but still unplayabale'
How do you expect to be taken serious with such statements?

Your inability to understand such a simple concept really ruins our debate.

It is the best because it has no real competition, even with the bugs.

It is unplayable because these bugs ruin the realistic experience.

In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed rules. Does that mean that the one eyed still has clear vision? No. It means that he simply can see better others, but still not good enough.

Also, I don't expect to be listened by people. SI will not change the way it does things no matter what.

Valid complaints about a product I bought is one of the things I can do as a customer. If you can't stand them, don't take out it on the customer. Take it out on the company for releasing a product with problems that totally affect my experience and expectations.

Or you can simply don't visit these threads and enjoy your game.

edit: It is almost the rule in here. People who defend the game don't actually defend it by arguments, they simply say "I don't mind, it's still fun" and at the same time attack people who state examples and facts about the problems of the game that ruins their enjoyment. Not everyone has the same standards, eh?

Using personal preference as arguments against valid complaints really shows how you have nothing to contribute.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 14:50
Your inability to understand such a simple concept really ruins our debate.

It is the best because it has no real competition, even with the bugs.

It is unplayable because these bugs ruin the realistic experience.

In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed rules. Does that mean that the one eyed still has clear vision? No. It means that he simply can see better others, but still not good enough.

Ok, now I see your point; Fm is the least shittiest.



Also, I don't expect to be listened by people. SI will not change the way it does things no matter what.
Again: don't buy FM anymore then. The only way SI will " listen" would be if 500000 would follow that example.
But it ain't going to happen; care to guess why?


Valid complaints about a product I bought is one of the things I can do as a customer. If you can't stand them, don't take out it on the customer. Take it out on the company. Or simply don't visit these threads and enjoy your game.
That's a very valid point; I'm trying to refrain myself from posting against the childish rants, but I guess it's stronger than myself...Guilty as charged.

TSH
15-11-2010, 14:55
Again: don't buy FM anymore then. The only way SI will " listen" would be if 500000 would follow that example.
But it ain't going to happen; care to guess why?

I do. It's because people have different standards and a lack of general knowledge of the game they are actually playing. It's the logic of the mass. For example, if most of the people who bought FM came from this forum, where the knowledge of the game itself and the bugs (the passion too) is amazingly high, then you would see a major drop in day one sales.



That's a very valid point; I'm trying to refrain myself from posting against the childish rants, but I guess it's stronger than myself...Guilty as charged.

Same here. Sometimes illogical defence of the game by some people make me go slightly... mental. :)

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:01
.
edit: It is almost the rule in here. People who defend the game don't actually defend it by arguments, they simply say "I don't mind, it's still fun" and at the same time attack people who state examples and facts about the problems of the game that ruins their enjoyment. Not everyone has the same standards, eh?
Where did I say that
1. FM is bugfree
2; I didn't mind the bugs

I am however realistic in what's possible and what's not with software/games. I'm also grateful for the hundreds hours of fun I'm getting out of FM. Can it be better? Off course. Is it unplayable? Off course not.


Using personal preference as arguments against valid complaints really shows how you have nothing to contribute.
What's the problem with personal reference; I respect you as a person and I respect your opinions. I just find them wrong and childish.
No hard feelings :thup:

TSH
15-11-2010, 15:02
Where did I say that
1. FM is bugfree
2; I didn't mind the bugs

I am however realistic in what's possible and what's not with software/games. I'm also grateful for the hundreds hours of fun I'm getting out of FM. Can it be better? Off course. Is it unplayable? Off course not.


What's the problem with personal reference; I respect you as a person and I respect your opinions. I just find them wrong and childish.
No hard feelings :thup:

The fact you are using your personal preferance to state that the game is playable is not an argument. Why? Because I can tell you the same. I get no enjoyment out of FM because the bugs ruin my experience. I state which bugs ruin the experience and you come up with "I don't mind, I enjoy the game, therefore you are wrong".

That's the one that's pretty childish, don't you think?

As for what's possible with software/games, that's a really ignorant argument. My Halo analogy a few posts up ruins your argument. We are not talking about some bugs here and there. We are talking about major bugs that ruin the game world and prevent people from enjoying the game.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:05
I do. It's because people have different standards and a lack of general knowledge of the game they are actually playing. It's the logic of the mass. For example, if most of the people who bought FM came from this forum, where the knowledge of the game itself and the bugs (the passion too) is amazingly high, then you would see a major drop in day one sales.



Same here. Sometimes illogical defence of the game by some people make me go slightly... mental. :)

That's being elitist again:
You seem to imply that you are smarter than the "others" (Lost, anyone) not seeing the bugs.

TSH
15-11-2010, 15:11
That's being elitist again:
You seem to imply that you are smarter than the "others" (Lost, anyone) not seeing the bugs.

It's not elitist, it's the truth. The logic of the mass is the same in every product. For example, the iPod is not the best MP3 player around. But the mass has made it number one. Even if you tell them that the iPod is not the best, they simply won't accept it. They don't care enough to go deeper.

I am not smarter than anyone. I simply care more.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:12
The fact you are using your personal preferance to state that the game is playable is not an argument. Why? Because I can tell you the same. I get no enjoyment out of FM because the bugs ruin my experience. I state which bugs ruin the experience and you come up with "I don't mind, I enjoy the game, therefore you are wrong".
Now, but the game is playable; it's just not as realistic as you want it to be (in your opinion)
Why would the Ronaldo-->Barca transfer make it unplayable?
Unrealistic, maybe (not for me, but that's personal)
But unplayable? No.


That's the one that's pretty childish, don't you think?
Sorry, I ddin't mean to be a patronising gimp. I kinda like you so don't take it like that!


As for what's possible with software/games, that's a really ignorant argument. My Halo analogy a few posts up ruins your argument. We are not talking about some bugs here and there. We are talking about major bugs that ruin the game world and prevent people from enjoying the game.
No we're not; it's personal (like you said yourself). I haven't seen any freak transfers myself. But if I see one, I will not go ballistic about it. I cannot ask SI to rule out freak occurences in a game; it would make FM predictable and boring. But again; that's personal. What's objective is this; the game works for 95% of the people and is playable.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:14
I am not smarter than anyone. I simply care more.

Then why don't you post in the bugs forum?

TSH
15-11-2010, 15:20
Now, but the game is playable; it's just not as realistic as you want it to be (in your opinion)
Why would the Ronaldo-->Barca transfer make it unplayable?
Unrealistic, maybe (not for me, but that's personal)
But unplayable? No.

Well, that's the difference. In a simulation I am looking -mostly- for as realistic a game as possible. If it doesn't give me that it's simply unplayable. For example, if I bought F1 from Codemasters and the gameplay was like Outrun, I certainly wouldn't play it because I bought the game for a completely different reason.



Sorry, I ddin't mean to be a patronising gimp. I kinda like you so don't take it like that!

No worries. I like you, too. I think we are having a good debate. :)

[QUOTE=Makollig Jezvahted;6136377
No were are not; it's personal (like you said yourself). I haven't seen any freak transfers myself. But if I see one, I will not go ballistic about it. I cannot ask SI to rule out freak occurences in a game; it would make FM predictable and boring. But again; that's personal. What's objective is this; the game works for 95% of the people and is playable.[/QUOTE]

It's not only the Ronaldo transfer. This happens to many good players. AI sells them for peanuts, thus ruins the balance of the game world in a major way. If someone wants a realistic experience then he or she has a problem. This is not personal preference because many people buy the game because they want a realistic experience. When they don't get it's only logical to deem the game unplayable.

TSH
15-11-2010, 15:24
Then why don't you post in the bugs forum?

First: Everything is already posted.

Second: I simply don't have the time to do SI's job.

Third: Posting about it won't solve my problem. I can't play the game I bought on day one and that happens every year. I think being upset about it as a customer is only logical. Believe me, if there was any competition I would certainly try them out. Just like the PES/FIFA problem. PES became **** and FIFA became better. So I stopped buying PES.

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:26
Well, that's the difference. In a simulation I am looking -mostly- for as realistic a game as possible. If it doesn't give me that it's simply unplayable. For example, if I bought F1 from Codemasters and the gameplay was like Outrun, I certainly wouldn't play it because I bought the game for a completely different reason.
I understand; but where to draw the line? That's where "personal' gets in. For you this is realistic, to me it will be something else.
Hence, perceived lack of realism is subjective and therefore not a valid reason to label a game 'unplayable'


No worries. I like you, too. I think we are having a good debate. :)
I agree :thup:



It's not only the Ronaldo transfer. This happens to many good players. AI sells them for peanuts, thus ruins the balance of the game world in a major way. If someone wants a realistic experience then he or she has a problem. This is not personal preference because many people buy the game because they want a realistic experience. When they don't get it's only logical to deem the game unplayable.
I haven't seen it myself...(maybe I'm lucky).
The way I see it: Every new save I start with a realistic world to begin with. Whenever I hit 'continue' for the first time, that world becomes fantasy. I want it to be realistic, but I won't cry 'SORTITOUTSI' as soon as I find something I think 'Hmm, woudl that happen irl?'.
I just continue and remind myself I'm playing in "my world".
I hope you understand my point of view...

TSH
15-11-2010, 15:37
I understand; but where to draw the line? That's where "personal' gets in. For you this is realistic, to me it will be something else.
Hence, perceived lack of realism is subjective and therefore not a valid reason to label a game 'unplayable'

I think this is where we go our separate ways. For me the perception of realism in a realistic event is not subjective.

Man City selling Tevez in his prime for 5m is not realistic. There is no other way to accept this than simply stating "I don't care this has happened".

I don't have a problem if someone says "I don't care". In fact, I am kind of envious because I can't do the same. :(

Makollig Jezvahted
15-11-2010, 15:40
I think this is where we go our separate ways. For me the perception of realism in a realistic event is not subjective.

Man City selling Tevez in his prime for 5m is not realistic. There is no other way to accept this than simply stating "I don't care this has happened".

I don't have a problem if someone says "I don't care". In fact, I am kind of envious because I can't do the same. :(

It's no so much that I say 'I don't care'.
It's more: "it's not happening in my save and if it would then I would just get on and try to accept it as being part of my fm-world"


And you're right; be envious; I'm enjoying FM11, ;)
I hope you'll be able to enjoy it as well soon.

Delvish
15-11-2010, 15:54
If you don't think it's worth the money - don't buy it.

Pretty logical, if you think the game is fine as it is - don't post here.

P.S. TSH, very constructive arguments :thup:

tingting
15-11-2010, 16:32
Every new save I start with a realistic world to begin with. Whenever I hit 'continue' for the first time, that world becomes fantasy. I want it to be realistic, but I won't cry 'SORTITOUTSI' as soon as I find something I think 'Hmm, woudl that happen irl?'.
I just continue and remind myself I'm playing in "my world".
I hope you understand my point of view...

Now thats a silly argument (no offense intended) Going by that logic, most of the "official bugs" from many previous versions can be explained by handing out this argument...then why did SI decide to correct them up? Agreed that when we click continue, we enter a "fantasy" world..but this is not a fantasy sim...SI are marketing the game as the most realistic footie sim around. The word realistic also extends to how the AI makes its decision...maybe you are happy that you can build a world class team for a total transfer fee of less than 50 million in the second or third year itself...but that is not realistic..offering your star players to your arch rivals (let alone for peanuts) is totally unrealistic..transfer listing some of your best players and asking for single figure transfer fee is also not realistic..

As i said..the game is being marketed as the most realistic one around and all of us gamers who buy the game do so because of that. If we wanted fluff then we would have opted for other games...maybe thats what others who blindly defend the game should do...afterall we enter a fantasy world after we press continue

diamonddark
16-11-2010, 14:29
All of you that argue the point that "FM is amazing" and that "SI are the best" are missing the point. SI are clearly not great if they can't release a game, that works perfectly, first time, out of the box....it's their job..their profession, their career.

It should be that the game is perfect before being released...why can we not demand it? It's a nonsense excuse that, to quote a reply,: "A game with such a large database is always going to have some bugs and mistakes in it when its first released, luckily SI do listen to us the consumers and do continually improve the game with patches and fixes."...

Why should that be the case? Get the game right in the first place and it wont need to be fixed...how hard can it be?...seriously? How hard can it be as professional programmers to test and fix your own work before it is released?

To all that have replied to me asking SI why they release such a "horribly bugged game" with "What bugs?"....have you not visited the bug forum?... ...

If they can't get the game bug free before being released, they shouldn't release it...simple.

I said in the post that started the thread that it's "unplayable"...I still stand by that in that it's unplayable in relation to what they have stated and promised the game is, because in relative terms, it's simply far too unrealisitic to be taken seriously. The more complex and 'realistic' SI makes the game, the more UNrealistic it gets.

I said in my original post that the game series needs to take inspiration from the 99/00, 00/01 days of CM. I stand by that as it was a lot more fun. Unrealistic, but fun. And if they're going to continue to give us an unrealistic game, it may as well be fun.

However, If they are going to go in to this much realsim and claim that it's as realistic as they say..they need to get it right.

Cheers.

Aytumious
16-11-2010, 14:55
Vote with your wallets next year.

Schotsmannetje
16-11-2010, 15:01
There are some valid points in your post, but I would like to respond on a couple of them.

First of all, let me ask you this: Name one product, that's either software or software-based (like MP3-players or eReaders), that is perfect right out of the box and does NOT require patches and/or updates?

Secondly, SI simply CANNOT test the entire game. There are too many different ways with which to play this game, and too many variables that will have an influence on it, to be able to test the entire game and thus ensure that you release a perfect product. However, agreeing with you, I would like to point out that some bugs (like last years corner bug, or this years transfer bug) are very much on the surface and should have been noticed and corrected pre-release.

Finally: When you, as a company, know you're product is flawed, you can indeed chose not to release it. I agree with you. Look at Gran Turismo 5. How many times has that release been postponed? Although I must admit that FM is released every year, so it will have to be released at some point, and at the same time every year if possible.

SnakeXe
16-11-2010, 15:13
All of you that argue the point that "FM is amazing" and that "SI are the best" are missing the point. SI are clearly not great if they can't release a game, that works perfectly, first time, out of the box....it's their job..their profession, their career.

Why do Microsoft release patch after patch for Windows/Office/etc.

It should be that the game is perfect before being released...why can we not demand it? It's a nonsense excuse that, to quote a reply,: "A game with such a large database is always going to have some bugs and mistakes in it when its first released, luckily SI do listen to us the consumers and do continually improve the game with patches and fixes."...

Why should that be the case? Get the game right in the first place and it wont need to be fixed...how hard can it be?...seriously? How hard can it be as professional programmers to test and fix your own work before it is released?

Very. I gather you've never programmed anything before? Think about how much testing their team of a few hundred programmers can do, even if they tested it for a year solid. 250 working days, 8 hours per day, say 300 employees (rough guess) - that's 600,000 hours. How many people buy the game? Hundreds of thousands. In one day of play, they will find more bugs than the SI staff could in a year, easily.

To all that have replied to me asking SI why they release such a "horribly bugged game" with "What bugs?"....have you not visited the bug forum?... ...

Only to ensure the bugs I notice are reported.

If they can't get the game bug free before being released, they shouldn't release it...simple.

Yes because they as a company should not make any money.

I said in the post that started the thread that it's "unplayable"...I still stand by that in that it's unplayable in relation to what they have stated and promised the game is, because in relative terms, it's simply far too unrealisitic to be taken seriously. The more complex and 'realistic' SI makes the game, the more UNrealistic it gets.

I have 5 seasons on the clock already, it's not unplayable. You can say it's poor, you can say it's unrealistic, but unplayable is completely factually inaccurate.

I said in my original post that the game series needs to take inspiration from the 99/00, 00/01 days of CM. I stand by that as it was a lot more fun. Unrealistic, but fun. And if they're going to continue to give us an unrealistic game, it may as well be fun.

Get a data update and play it then. 01/02 is freeware now. Nothing stopping you.

However, If they are going to go in to this much realsim and claim that it's as realistic as they say..they need to get it right.

Cheers.
Responses in bold.

diamonddark
16-11-2010, 15:13
There are some valid points in your post, but I would like to respond on a couple of them.

First of all, let me ask you this: Name one product, that's either software or software-based (like MP3-players or eReaders), that is perfect right out of the box and does NOT require patches and/or updates?

Secondly, SI simply CANNOT test the entire game. There are too many different ways with which to play this game, and too many variables that will have an influence on it, to be able to test the entire game and thus ensure that you release a perfect product. However, agreeing with you, I would like to point out that some bugs (like last years corner bug, or this years transfer bug) are very much on the surface and should have been noticed and corrected pre-release.

Finally: When you, as a company, know you're product is flawed, you can indeed chose not to release it. I agree with you. Look at Gran Turismo 5. How many times has that release been postponed? Although I must admit that FM is released every year, so it will have to be released at some point, and at the same time every year if possible.

Yeah, GT5 is a great example of a company wanting to get it right. But like you state SI simply don't have that time.

My points are from an uneducated view point, in that I'm not a programmer, nor do I create video games. But what I do know is that the company I work for wouldn't work beyond their abilities and promise what they cannot deliver..time after time after time....which is what SI are doing...in simple terms, it's exactly what they are doing.

In response to Aytumious 2 posts up...I voted with my wallet since I found FM2006 poor, but gave SI 4 years to get the game right...but it's only got worse..it REALLY has.

The post from an SI guy that replied to a bug in the 2010 bug forum that really got got me was, and I paraphrase: "We'll have to look at that bug next year, as it would require a complete re design for this edition"....

That to me is ridiculous.

SnakeXe
16-11-2010, 15:16
The post from an SI guy that replied to a bug in the 2010 bug forum that really got got me was, and I paraphrase: "We'll have to look at that bug next year, as it would require a complete re design for this edition"....

That to me is ridiculous.
Why? Should they redesign the game?

tingting
16-11-2010, 15:20
There are some valid points in your post, but I would like to respond on a couple of them.

First of all, let me ask you this: Name one product, that's either software or software-based (like MP3-players or eReaders), that is perfect right out of the box and does NOT require patches and/or updates?

As i have said many times before, if you are happy comparing SI with EA and Eidos, then you should be really happy with the game no matter what. But some of us have been spoilt by SI of the past where in the games were always almost perfect. Yes there were bugs but not frustrating/gamebreaking bugs of the last couple of years. We would like the return of that SI rather than the SI which is only better than EA or Eidos



SI simply CANNOT test the entire game. There are too many different ways with which to play this game, and too many variables that will have an influence on it, to be able to test the entire game and thus ensure that you release a perfect product. However, agreeing with you, I would like to point out that some bugs (like last years corner bug, or this years transfer bug) are very much on the surface and should have been noticed and corrected pre-release.

Yes SI cannot possible test out the entire game. But they are missing some serious bugs even when it is being shoved into their faces. For example any one who tested the game by playing a single game could easily see that the widgets move around in TV view...a single use of custom views would show that they were disappearing almost as soon as you create them (even now its not yet right..i get a long "custom" string attached but thats a very minor bug compared to what was happening initially) and playing for a couple of seasons (or even going on holiday) would show that there is a gamebreaking problem with the transfer system. So either some very superficial testing was done..or SI okayed the release of the patch even though they knew about the problems.

diamonddark
16-11-2010, 15:46
Why? Should they redesign the game?

From memory it was a re-design of a screen....and yes, why wouldn't we expect it...and if not, then get it right in the first place :)

underwater sunlight
16-11-2010, 16:26
just out of curiosity, does anybody here actually remember the major gamebreaking bugs from the release version of FM10, or FM9, etc... or the issues in the first patches of these games???
i got FM10 on release day and played it a lot. i posted in the OTF FM thread as well as viewed and posted on GD, and i do not remember from personal experience, or the feedback on the forums, the major issues.
could it be that most of the people have rose tinted glasses on when comparing this years version to previos editions?

Delvish
16-11-2010, 16:43
just out of curiosity, does anybody here actually remember the major gamebreaking bugs from the release version of FM10, or FM9, etc

Of course, ridiculous amount of injuries in FM09 for example.

Schotsmannetje
16-11-2010, 16:47
And don't forget the corner bug!! I mean, central defenders actually became top goal-scorers in a lot of leagues because of the corner bug. 18+ goals a season for a couple of them actually.

FrazT
16-11-2010, 19:08
There have been issues reported in all recent versions of the game that some users have called "game breaking ", so memories can become faded after a while.

wazza
17-11-2010, 12:27
But still unplayable according to 1 of your previous posts.
So the best game in its genre is unplayable according to you.




Why can't you praise something when there is something wrong with it?
You just did:
'Its the best one around"
So you keep on praising FM when there's so many things wrong with it yourself...
Please tell me why you are saying I can't do something you do yourself.


I'm at work and can't play right now.
I'm not complaining against people having valid complaints (people posting bugs in the bugs section of this forum). I'm just getting tired of the attention whores in this section of the forum, that's all.


Not at all; but I really would suggest you skip FM12. Or at least postpone purchase until march.
What are the odds you will be back 15/11/2011 with 'FM12 is unplayable, FM11 is so much better'
Pretty high, I reckon.

Well, back to work for me and then some FM11 tonight.
:thup:

Excellent Post

wazza
17-11-2010, 12:45
We are not talking about some bugs here and there. We are talking about major bugs that ruin the game world and prevent people from enjoying the game.[/QUOTE]

May prevent you form enjoying the game but not me.

MrPompey
17-11-2010, 13:55
And don't forget the corner bug!! I mean, central defenders actually became top goal-scorers in a lot of leagues because of the corner bug. 18+ goals a season for a couple of them actually.

It wasn't actually a bug it was an exploit selecting specfic players for corner positions