I suck at this! SI, please make a tutorial or something!

Dear Sports Interactive, have you ever considered making a tutorial to this game? Since I'm such a poor player I often find myself really struggling at the bottom of the table, losing from everybody with substitutional goal difference. After a run of bad games I usually load my last save and try again and again to get through them gaining a few points. More often than not I fail miserably and finally go on holiday through the matches, because my assistant manager fares better than me and gets better results. Obviously I suck at this game and the AI does a better job at tactics than me. The problem is that I've been playing for quite some time (more actively since '09) and still have no idea why I fail so badly when I do. I understand that making a tutorial for such a complex thing is kinda hard, but can't you at least provide some way to let my assistant manager control the game and seeing exactly what he does, so I can learn from him?

Also the community is great and there are several fan made tactic guides, but it would be really appreciated if there was something official, which explains which does exactly what in the ME. And I don't mean general mumbo-jumbo, but hard numbers and formulas, like the Blood Bowl ruleset for example.

Getting sacked in the morning saaackkkeed in the morning lol

go an extremely successful and powerful team until u feel u have a grasp of the game/tactics

go an extremely successful and powerful team until u feel u have a grasp of the game/tactics

Actually, this is quite good advice. When I first get FM or the demo, I normally take over a team that dominates a fairly weak league, e.g. Celtic or Lyon or something like that to give me a handle on how to use FM while still (hopefully) being good enough to win games.

and if you still struggle, hop over to the good player/team guides so u can see other peoples ideas/ask for help for a specific team

Watch some real football matches (mute the stupid sky commentators). Now look for yourself what is working, where are people going in order to get success attacking and defending.

Dear SI. Please diregard the opening posters advice and concentrate on whatever you were doing, such as research, or improving the match engine, or fighting crime. I know the opening poster wants an official guide to everything, but as this would probably take the entire year to write, I think we should let him take advice from your excellent official forums.

Thanks.

Total members on this forum: 202,217

Total purchases of FM '10/11: about 1.5 million

Looks like 85% of people who play the game the don't ever visit this forum.

Imagine how many of those feel exactly the same way as the OP.

keep things simple at first, then start adding things to your team, try tweaking 1 thing at a time, it is easier to settle down that way

example: arsene wenger, first arrived at arsenal, but kept the same tactics, players etc, and first just changed dietary habits, then he began changing tactics, then changing personnel, then he changed different things again within tactics

the point is, take things slowly, and often you do not need to make gambles to do well

When things begin to go wrong for me I usually look at my Assistant's view on the team and tactics and see if implementing some of his advice changes my fortunes. That's usually my first port of call.

There are some online and downloadable tutorials and strategy/tips guides out there. Do a Google search and you will find quite a bit.

Dear SI. Please diregard the opening posters advice and concentrate on whatever you were doing, such as research, or improving the match engine, or fighting crime. I know the opening poster wants an official guide to everything, but as this would probably take the entire year to write, I think we should let him take advice from your excellent official forums.

Thanks.

Dear SI, please disregard Tom15390's post, he is clearly missing the point. The original poster makes a very good point, he is not asking for a set of unbeatable tactics or a "Win" button, he is asking for a guide on HOW THE GAME WORKS. If we had this WE could work it out for ourselves, but after 5 years of FM's the manual, such as it was, has got worse - this years feels like an SI CBA WIP document!. So I guess we will have to wait for third party opinions and trawl through those if we need advice, as usual. Actually, only yesterday I asked for the small courtesy of a Stickied thread in the "Tactics" forum where sound officially approved tactical advice threads could be linked. Havent even had a courtesy reply to that yet!

Am loving FM11 though, and doing quite well - despite penalties seeming impossible to score and default tackling tactics resulting if 3 red cards in 7 games. Ho Hum!

Excellent guide, I have found: <SNIP>

Maybe I needed to stress Official as in approved and checked by SI. Because you can't create a walktrough without inside information.

Do Beta Testers have access to the code? I'm personally stuck in player conversations and I find team talks very illogical.

They just feel unnatural because communication isn't Black or white IRL. A real manager is capable to give critique without offending his players.

Maybe they need to outsource this part to communication experts...

I agree on the communications. The interaction isn't good and they aren't enough options for the manager. I feel anytime a talk goes sour, the only options I have are to get angry at the player and just make it worse. Obviously, this is not something I am particularly interested in doing. I would prefer to keep the players on my side. But I don't believe the inability to handle these conversations is a result of the lack of tutorial. Rather, I think it is a problem (that needs to be fixed) within the game code itself.

This forum is good, but it still doesn't explain everything, because there are at least 3 different opinions on everything, since everybody is just guessing how the game works. I don't want to discuss issues in specifics, but wanted to say, that overall the game isn't very user-friendly and is very hard to pick up and understand.

I don't want the game to lose depth, but to be made more accessible for people, who don't have that much free time to reverse engineer it

And since everybody here will say that SI is a small developer and don't have the resources for such "insignificant" features, I suggested just to be able to see what the AI does, since it is already implemented in the game.

btw SI already made a good progress to make things a bit more sensible via the Backroom Advice panel, I give them that. And now the Match Preparation clearly displays the "gelling" of the team, which is also good.

<snip> .

I've just had to delete a load of posts so apologies if this thread is slightly nonsensical. It's not here so that people from fansites can hawk their fan-produced fan guides (especially as they are charging money for it). If you want to know more about that sort of thing, please use Google.

edited in light of Gillsmans post: thanks Gillsman

That's hardly what happened, but as you say, it's now irrelevant.

Gillsman, I wasn't aware that my last reply was hawking anything. In fact, I asked you myself to edit out the URL that jkits posted.

I believe my last reply was discussing the OP's question of the consideration in making a tutorial for the game. And I showed the logic in affirmation of that idea. No where in any of that reply was any mention or insinuation that an outside guide even exists in any shape or form.

But alas, I don't own this private forum and Sports Interactive does, so they may edit, delete and move posts as they'd like. It's not a democracy here and I respect that.

I am puzzled as to why my post talking about Marc's past tutorials and strategy guides and asking if he has written one for this year was deleted, since Marc is one of the lead product managers at S.I.?

The original poster makes a very good point, he is not asking for a set of unbeatable tactics or a "Win" button, he is asking for a guide on HOW THE GAME WORKS. If we had this WE could work it out for ourselves, but after 5 years of FM's the manual, such as it was, has got worse - this years feels like an SI CBA WIP document!. So I guess we will have to wait for third party opinions and trawl through those if we need advice, as usual.

My apologies then. I don't get the point. SI has the in-game tutorial which explains what all the buttons and gizmo's do in the game. Are you looking for advice such as "when playing against 10 men, try to retain possesion, and play wider to tire out the opposition"?

Theres lots of guides out there mate, take the time to read and understand them. The main reasons people fail are because thier tactics are flawed, Give Tactical Theorums a read...its free. Theres another guide by somebody called The Game that might be worth a read as well. Probably the easiest way to acheive success is playing as a better team like say Barcelona, If you are still struggling around the bottom of the league with them after reading all the guides etc then it may well be time to consider giving up and going back to Tetris.

My apologies then. I don't get the point. SI has the in-game tutorial which explains what all the buttons and gizmo's do in the game. Are you looking for advice such as "when playing against 10 men, try to retain possesion, and play wider to tire out the opposition"?

Yeah its the strategy guide thing. Generally FM'ers are geeky enough (no insult intended!) to want to analyse & disect how the game works to achieve their objective - but there are so many variables, and the only concise info is from learned posters, but there are always conflicting posts to all opinions on "how to do..." Even if SI justfiltered these into "Officially sanctioned" and "Incorrect Opinion" that would help

Actually, this is quite good advice. When I first get FM or the demo, I normally take over a team that dominates a fairly weak league, e.g. Celtic or Lyon or something like that to give me a handle on how to use FM while still (hopefully) being good enough to win games.

On the contrary it is a lousy advice (no disrespect intended) coz managing a top team with loads of quality players is a lot different from managing lower table teams or other lower league teams since the margin of error is bigger in top teams. Finding it the hard way

maybe they are all happy playing the game feeling perfectly well?

Maybe they got fed up with the game and shelved it until the next patch?

On the contrary it is a lousy advice (no disrespect intended) coz managing a top team with loads of quality players is a lot different from managing lower table teams or other lower league teams since the margin of error is bigger in top teams. Finding it the hard way

Maybe they got fed up with the game and shelved it until the next patch?

I think it is good and bad advice, but either way it does not address the problem. If I buy FM just because I want to manage Carlisle (eg), I may not be ar$ed to spend a week of my life "mucking about" with Rangers or Anderlecht or whoever. I'd like to believe that just playing FM as any team is good enough for any gamer but this advice is not going to help them like a "proper" guide would. Having said all that I am now going to give another suggestion, different from Gillsman's but similar in vein, take a Blue SQuare team with reasonable finances and bring in a wonder squad of freebees & amateurs. The excellent Heathxxx's Lower League Management thread (beware this is the FM09 version - not updated since, but it still works on FM10 & 11) in Tactics & Training Forum gives a good guide on "how to" but you would need to search the FM11 specific "Best player at that level" of "Blue Square Club" threads for advice on the best players. I find this much more satisfying as Altrincham or Blyth than as Man U or Barcelona, so others may too. Of course you do need to start as "Ex Int player" to give yourself the "easier" option.

I think it is good and bad advice, but either way it does not address the problem. If I buy FM just because I want to manage Carlisle (eg), I may not be ar$ed to spend a week of my life "mucking about" with Rangers or Anderlecht or whoever. I'd like to believe that just playing FM as any team is good enough for any gamer but this advice is not going to help them like a "proper" guide would. Having said all that I am now going to give another suggestion, different from Gillsman's but similar in vein, take a Blue SQuare team with reasonable finances and bring in a wonder squad of freebees & amateurs. The excellent Heathxxx's Lower League Management thread (beware this is the FM09 version - not updated since, but it still works on FM10 & 11) in Tactics & Training Forum gives a good guide on "how to" but you would need to search the FM11 specific "Best player at that level" of "Blue Square Club" threads for advice on the best players. I find this much more satisfying as Altrincham or Blyth than as Man U or Barcelona, so others may too. Of course you do need to start as "Ex Int player" to give yourself the "easier" option.

Yes, I think this is a good approach.

Fwiw, my advice is based on getting used to FM and learning things like the interface and what affect tactical tweaks will have without having the inconvenience of losing every game (in theory!!).

I think the OP is on to something … not that we need a guide on everything, but that the SI deliberate vagueness in describing important features, needs to be addressed.

It seems to be that SI counts on players of FM to visit the forums and spend hours reading various threads to learn how to play the game.

As someone else posted, far from everyone comes here, so that seems to be a flawed logic.

Now should SI do a complete tutorial telling you every aspect of tactics and such?? .. no, that would be a huge undertaking, and in most cases it can't be applied to every manager's situation anyways.

But some functions are not described in ANY way, and often ones that are pretty important to the game. My case in point being Tutoring.

There is NO official (and easy to find) information on how that works. Now I don't have FM11 yet, so I will use FM10 as an example.

I searched through the online manual of FM10 for the word 'Tutor' … and this is all I found:

This can go further, with the appropriate players being eligible to tutor a youngster or learn from a more senior professional.

As a new player, how is this helping me understand what tutoring is and what it does??

It says that I can let my young plaers learn from an older more experienced player … but there is no information about what does actually happen when tutoring, what criteria for tutoring there are (age, reputation, position etc.), or what effects it has.

First of all, the stats that are affected needs to be clarified. Also most of those stats are hidden stats, that are NOT covered in the manual at all. It only tells the player about visible ones. It also needs to state that PPMs can be transferred, and how that effects what is stated in the news items.

The news items needs to be better worded, as a player who gained no PPMs seems to be disapointed with the tutoring, and thus seems like nothing really happened, when he could actually have gained massive boosts to his hidden stats.

The criteria needs to be clarified, so that the player knows that a tutor has to be at least 22 years old, have a better reputation and play the same position as the youngster to be tutored. This does NOT take away the immersion or feel of the game by supplying such information to the player. This is stuff we NEED to know.

I am currently reading several threads where people ask about how tutoring works in FM11, since this was apparently changed, but no one knows how. So someone has to sit down, and spend hours play testing or using the game editors to figure out. Why not just supply this information in the game??

I think a lot of information on this could be made easily by SI, but for some reason they feel we as players (who have paid good money for a game) should have the ”joy” of figuring that out for ourselves. Without the forums, most players will never know what the effects of this important feature is.

I am not saying that SI needs to provide us with a matrix of percentage chances of a Balanced youngster gaining an Ambition boost while being tutored by an Ambitious tutor. But we need to know who can tutor who and why, and what effects the manager can expect from a tutoring session.

And this is just one example … as there are many things in the game that SI keep vague, even when it just ruins the enjoyment of the game when you have to sit and read huge threads for the information that should have been in the game, instead of playing … or sit and spend an evening inside an editor to figure stuff out yourself.

SI needs to vastly improve the documentation of features, to give a non-forum user a fighting chance of actually learning the game.

Not sure how it would work but if SI/Sega used the FM-base boys under a retainer to create a proper & comprehensive on line manual with controlled content - maybe that would work?

I think the OP is on to something … not that we need a guide on everything, but that the SI deliberate vagueness in describing important features, needs to be addressed.

It's due to the nature of the 'beast'.

Do you think that real life managers have methods and guides that explain how to train a 16 year old wonderkid?

guidelines on how to interact with their players?

No they don't.

They learn by doing.

So should we in the game; rinse and repeat. Try to talk to your star player in fashion A. Doesn't work? Ok, let's try B then. Learn the game as a real manager learns his trade

IMHO, Si is keeping the processes under the hood vague because football in itself isn't exact science.

I do feel that the manual could be expanded, but we don't need a 'click this, that and then this and you'll have this'.

I understand your point of view, but to some people it is a game and not a second life. If you enjoy spending hours to figure out basic features, then you can ignore the manual, just like LLMs restrict themselves. Also FM is too god damn complex to really figure everything out yourself.

I am hoping for whatever SI input in this thread, because I am pretty sure they realise the issue. Just a word that the game will keep getting more humane. The UI also can use some love after all these years.

There is already tutorials and advice on various fan sites if you look around. I downloaded the ultimate FM walkthrough guide this weekendbut not had time to read it yet as its 108 pages. I used what I could remember for when I read the FM2010 guide.

I understand your point of view, but to some people it is a game and not a second life. If you enjoy spending hours to figure out basic features, then you can ignore the manual, just like LLMs restrict themselves.

But I understand your point of view as well; FM can be overwhelming and has a very, very steep learning curve. That's why I'm asking for a better manual for years. I just don't see the point making a guide explaining every possible permutation of the game.

A lot of info (in fact all info you'll need) can be found on this and several other sites.

I have already posted about this, the lack of credible OFFICIAL information regarding how stuff is supposed to work and the thinking behind stuff is a disgrace. This is a game, this is NOT a real life simulation, anyone who thinks it is are deluding themselves. The official forums are great BUT there is so much guesswork done that finding out what is correct and what is rubbish is very difficult.

Perfect example, there is a post by SFraser, a so called 'FM Guru' about how influence effects passing. This thread goes on for pages, as it turns out, it is completely and utterly wrong. It was only when a SI coder casually mentioned it that anyone had any idea. Totally and utterly pathetic. This is the kind of rubbish that needs to be sorted out and DOCUMENTED.

Getting sacked in the morning saaackkkeed in the morning lol

ROFL! Made me laugh so hard xD

On topic, yeah, probably needs a bit of a guide. The manual (online and paper) doesn't really do much other than teach you the functions of the game, and the in-game "helper" is annoying as sin.

I personally wouldn't buy it, but I wouldn't complain if SI did release an official companion guide to the game.

Perfect example, there is a post by SFraser, a so called 'FM Guru' about how influence effects passing. This thread goes on for pages, as it turns out, it is completely and utterly wrong. It was only when a SI coder casually mentioned it that anyone had any idea. Totally and utterly pathetic. This is the kind of rubbish that needs to be sorted out and DOCUMENTED.

Surprised by that. Would have thought it obvious Influence didn't effect Passing other than in a very generic gameplay way in that a good captain boosts the sides motivational performance, but in that case Influence could be said to have an impact on absolutely everything!

In response to your point, I actually don't think that sort of thing needs "sorting out". Player speculation on strategy, stats etc. are actually a very involved part of the game for me and I'd be saddened to see the game watered down with stupid tooltips saying stuff like "Finishing - this means how good your player can score!" when you mouse over things!

It's due to the nature of the 'beast'.

Do you think that real life managers have methods and guides that explain how to train a 16 year old wonderkid?

guidelines on how to interact with their players?

No they don't.

They learn by doing.

So should we in the game; rinse and repeat. Try to talk to your star player in fashion A. Doesn't work? Ok, let's try B then. Learn the game as a real manager learns his trade

IMHO, Si is keeping the processes under the hood vague because football in itself isn't exact science.

I do feel that the manual could be expanded, but we don't need a 'click this, that and then this and you'll have this'.

Well I am sure real managers HAVE to learn ... but they are not bound by the same rules as we are ... if they ask their 16-year old first-year senior to learn from the 300+ league appearance local superstar, then he won't be told that the youngster is "not suitable", without any indication as to WHY he is not suitable.

The problem is that features such as Tutoring are rather important features in the game (at least for people who like to find young players and turn them into great players), and if I had NO forum sources to go on ... then how on earth would I know in the game what the effects actually are?? .... sit and re do the same tutoring session over and over 50 times to see if I can guess at the exact effects?? .... without an editor, this becomes impossible. It is not FUN for me having to test the game for hours before I can actually start to enjoy some of its features.

You can't just create a deep strategic feature like that, and then just say: "Now you can let youngsters learn from older players" without actually telling you what happens then, what pitfalls there might be and who are eligible to be tutored.

Without ruining any kind of "oooohh-I-want-NO-help-and-want-to-learn-by-myself" feeling (which I think only covers a small number of players ... who as someone else said could just not look in the manual), the following information could have been provided in the manual, which would have helped most players a lot:

Tutoring (FM10):

* Affected stats by tutoring: Determination, Adaptability, Ambition, Controversy, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship, Temperament, as well as potentially any or all of tutor's PPMs.

* Tutor has to have same or better Squad status than Youngster.

* Tutor has to have better Reputation score than Youngster.

* Tutor must be older than Youngster

* Tutor has to be min. 22 years old

* Youngster outfield players can be max. 26 years old

* Youngster GK can be max. 28 years old

* They have to be skilled in the same position to be paired.

* Youngster will shift his stats towards those of the tutor, so select your tutor with care.

That combined with some news items that make sense, would be an immense help for players.

Edit: The lack of tutoring information would be a bit like if SI just created all the stat groups in training but not telling us what exact stats are trained with each group. Then someone would have to test this for hours before figuring out which stats are in which group and then posting it online. Anyone not reading that thread in whatever forum are doomed to redo the exact same thing.

Well I am sure real managers HAVE to learn ... but they are not bound by the same rules as we are ... if they ask their 16-year old first-year senior to learn from the 300+ league appearance local superstar, then he won't be told that the youngster is "not suitable", without any indication as to WHY he is not suitable.

The problem is that features such as Tutoring are rather important features in the game (at least for people who like to find young players and turn them into great players), and if I had NO forum sources to go on ... then how on earth would I know in the game what the effects actually are?? .... sit and re do the same tutoring session over and over 50 times to see if I can guess at the exact effects?? .... without an editor, this becomes impossible. It is not FUN for me having to test the game for hours before I can actually start to enjoy some of its features.

You can't just create a deep strategic feature like that, and then just say: "Now you can let youngsters learn from older players" without actually telling you what happens then, what pitfalls there might be and who are eligible to be tutored.

Without ruining any kind of "oooohh-I-want-NO-help-and-want-to-learn-by-myself" feeling (which I think only covers a small number of players ... who as someone else said could just not look in the manual), the following information could have been provided in the manual, which would have helped most players a lot:

Tutoring (FM10):

* Affected stats by tutoring: Determination, Adaptability, Ambition, Controversy, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship, Temperament, as well as potentially any or all of tutor's PPMs.

* Tutor has to have same or better Squad status than Youngster.

* Tutor has to have better Reputation score than Youngster.

* Tutor must be older than Youngster

* Tutor has to be min. 22 years old

* Youngster outfield players can be max. 26 years old

* Youngster GK can be max. 28 years old

* They have to be skilled in the same position to be paired.

* Youngster will shift his stats towards those of the tutor, so select your tutor with care.

That combined with some news items that make sense, would be an immense help for players.

Edit: The lack of tutoring information would be a bit like if SI just created all the stat groups in training but not telling us what exact stats are trained with each group. Then someone would have to test this for hours before figuring out which stats are in which group and then posting it online. Anyone not reading that thread in whatever forum are doomed to redo the exact same thing.

I agree for 80% ; that's why I said the manual should be expanded in my post.

I just don't want a manual that's gives away too much under the hood information; I want more background info on how things work in the manual; things like you mentioned in your post.

I agree for 80% ; that's why I said the manual should be expanded in my post.

I just don't want a manual that's gives away too much under the hood information; I want more background info on how things work in the manual; things like you mentioned in your post.

Ah ok ... I guess I misunderstood your post then

But I do agree that we don't need a manual that tells us how to best tutor, and which personalities are certain to clash with each other.

Im not so sure how a tutorial could help someone who is struggling with the game. I can understand people loading FM for the first time being a bit lost with all the different screens, but eventually with time and experience navigating around FM becomes 2nd nature.

In terms of being a successfull manager, there are no sure win tactics that guarantee success. Thats the beauty of the game. The tactics wizard is there to help you set up tactics that suit your team and the way you want to play. The rest is trial and error, patience and having good scouts/coaches at your club.

The transfer market is a bit trial and error aswel I suppose. In game scouts give you detailed reports on players and your assistant team report gives you an indication of where you could stregnthen your squad. Sometimes you may get a glowing scout report on a player, fork out your transfer budget on him only for him to be a disaster for whatever reason. Happens all the time irl. Even if you haven't got great football knowledge, you can still be a success at squad building in FM by listening to your staff advice.

On the backroom advice screen sometimes it will say that player x would improve his game if he stayed on his feet etc? How do I know if the coach has got a good idea of whether this would improve the players game or not? What stat would the coach need to be able to predict what would improve a players game?