DK 4-4-2 Wingers...

I've often downloaded tactics but never actually posted one of my own, but for the first time since about CM3 i've come up with a tactic that produces solid results both home and away with clubs across various standards! I had to, because my usual source of inspiration, Mr Hough has yet to post a tactic for FM 2011 and i've been waiting lol :-)

This was built with the FM 2011 Tactics Creator.

I originally built the tactic with Manchester United in mind and it's built (in my mind!) to accomodate their players. However as a Forest fan, i took it to Forest and also had great success there too!

The tactic is a 4-4-2 with wingers (Not wide midfielders). I love to see attacking football and it was built with this in mind. I wanted to create a tactic initially to get the most from Wayne Rooney, without sacrificing the mercurial Dimitar Berbatov or losing the input from the wide men.

So following the ideal of another great post by Recoil, Who's tactics i've also toyed with, (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/234739-Pyramid-FM11-4-3-2-1) here comes the science part!

THE AIM

Essentially, the aim is to score more than the opposition, without conceding too much possesion or too many chances. The idea is to get the ball, get it forward and then get to it to the key men, namely the wingers and the forwards, who can do the damage. I've set both Wingers and Strikers to swap positions (E.g left winger swaps with right winger and left forward swaps with right forward) to make them harder to man mark and also because luckily for me, Rooney/Berbatov and Blackstock/Earnshaw can both do either a Deep lying or Advanced Forward role. This tactic creates a multitude of chances but most importantly tends to create 2/3 clear cut chances as a minimum per game, however my concession has not been bad either, of course at United i know this is largely due to a quality line up, but i've had just as much fun with Forest, Wilson Chambers Gunter and Bertrand have been more than capable of keeping out the opposition.

THE PHILOSOPHY

Contrary to Recoils approach to defence, i like my fullbacks heavily involved going forward, Evra and Rafael at United and Gunter and Bertrand at Forest are all capable of great surging runs to lend added to support to our attack, whilst i planned to fill the holes these runs would create with a combatitive midfielder set to cover their runs, Cohen or McKenna at Forest and Fletcher/Carrick or if you can get him fit, Hargreaves at United. The role of this player is mainly to sheild your back line and allow the fullback the freedom to roam forward and either get the ball into the box or create space for the wingers by adding extra numbers in the final third. With this in mind, we've got a fluid philosphy, lending the players room to manouvre on the pitch and get up and down as needed, as you might've guessed, i of course play with an attacking strategy :-D

I hate the hoof it up front theory, despite my direct passing setting i like to see the ball worked forward and Forest and Utd both tend to do this, the keeper should be set to distribute to the better of the 2 fullbacks, the download file is set to distribute to left back. I also like the keeper to be on his toes, i still play alot of "real life" football too! And i hate static keepers letting the centre halves run around like madmen when a 10 yard dash from them could save allot of trouble, as such, i use a sweeper keeper.

I like my wingers to mix it up, which is why the left Midfielder is set to cut inside whilst the right is set to stay wide and cross, the left fullback tends to push into the hole created by teh winger cutting in and often gets good crossing opportunities from there. Perhaps this is one area that can be toyed with though, as most of my assists are coming from the right wing.

I wanted to create a tactic to support two forwards, with attacking wingers and one of the two centre midfielders also contributing in the final 3rd, i wanted a 4-4-2 as most sides can field a strong team with these positions and i wanted a tight defence who were going to get the ball back and immediately support the attacking movement that i wanted to ensue. I'm pretty confident i've acheived these aims, whilst i'm sure there's also plenty of room for improvement, hence the post! This is a "Please help to improve" post!

The formation as mentioned is 4-4-2 or i gues more accurately, a 4-2-2-2 as you can see below.

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

And here are the Strikers at Forest...

Earnshaw...

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

Blackstock...

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

And the main winger for me is always the player starting on the right, in this case Anderson...

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

I'm entirely new to posting tactics so i hope i've covered the main points, please let me know if there's anything you feel i should add?

I'd also greatly appreciate some feedback, maybe some tweaks that have worked for more experienced tacticians?!

The link to the tactic can be found here...

http://www.filefront.com/17493793/4-2-4 DK V1 (Nottm Forest, Aug 2010).tac

And here...

http://rapidshare.com/files/429641248/4-2-4_DK_V1__Nottm_Forest__Aug_2010_.tac

Shevchenko has kindly taken the time to look at ways of improving the tactic, with some significant success! Below is a link to a tweaked version of the tactic that i've created following his suggested tweaks. Changes include slight differences in the defence and having only one of the fullbacks set to wingback. The version i uploaded is set to have the left back as the "wing back", making your forward runs etc. As such, i've set the keeper to distribute to the left back.

I should point out that i've had most success myself with the right winger as the playmaker and with the wingers set to swap positions with each other, as well as the strikers to swap with each other. There's a link below, hope this helps improve what's already seeming to be a good solid tactic!

http://www.filefront.com/17514390/4-2-4 DK V3.tac

Hope you enjoy and i hope you can help me to improve it again! And once more, Credit to Shevchenko for the latest version, all the tweaks are his suggestions.

Here are my current results, i don't tend to keep tactic test results, sorry!

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

Next fixture not shown was Tottenham in the league cup at the City Ground, won 2-1!

I was hoping for a good 4-4-2, will test and see what happens

Thanks, please let me know how it pans out for you!

Thanks, looks good, will give it a try

Cheers! Let me know how you get on.

I'm testing it again now so i'll aim to get some more screenshots added later this evening, if the wife lets me back near the PC :-) !!!

Looks good so far, 3 games, 8-2 GD, top of the table

Kenty7 do you change the strategy from Attacking in any instances? If so when and how?

Working well for my Leeds team so far. Have won the last 4 on the trot including a 1-0 away win at West Brom. Only conceded 1 goal.

Kenty7 do you change the strategy from Attacking in any instances? If so when and how?

If i change the strategy it's usually either to go after a game i'm losing, switching to an overload, (but to be honest it tends to make things worse!), or i switch to a more conservative stratagey. Depends on the play, in the Tottenham game where i won 2-1, i was under the kosh for the last half hour, but pulling back both wingers to ML and MR and switching to counter i was able to hold them off. For a closer opposition, say Cardiff, if i was 2-0 up with anywhere from 30 minutes or less to go, i'd be changing to either control or standard, standard if they were getting on top control if i was still running the game, no better defense than offence! So long as it's not too over the top.

For those interested, this is the season so far, 34 games in and alls still going well.

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

Arsenal knocked me out of the FA cup with a 2-0 win at Highbury, but frankly i'll take 2-0 away to Arsenal! Though i was disappointed to lose to Ipswich on penalties after a 3-3 draw in the league cup.

Blackstocks now 19 goals from 25 (5) games, Earnshaw is 17 from 23 (8) and Guillermo Franco (Signed on a free at the start of the season) is 15 from 28 (8).

Things are looking good! If anyone has any ideas on improvements let me know!

What Match Preparation do you use mate, or do you leave it to your Ass Man?

Season Over and this is the final result. Job done, now there has to be a way to get some of the draws/defeats down, i think perhaps it needs tweaking for away games, i've had some funny results away.

By kenty7 at 2010-11-08

Well worth a mention here, i only lost once at home in the league all season. 16 wins, 6 draws and 1 defeat. Definately need to work on away games.

What Match Preparation do you use mate, or do you leave it to your Ass Man?

I leave to the Assistant manager, but that's something i think i need to use. Probably i'll start by prepping home games with attacking movement and an average workload and away games more toward a defensive aspect, perhaps positioning or defending free kicks.

Hi there ,

Gonna try this with West Brom . Can you just tell me how many assists your Fullbacks got please

Started using this tactic earlier today and it's worked wonders for me. Before, I was defending solidly but struggling to create much in attack. Since switching to this tactic my wingers and strikers have sprung to life and my form has turned around. My only change has been to switch the target man supply to 'mixed'. But otherwise, it seems to suit my players down to the ground.

Here's an example of my form...

The Woking game is where I introduced this tactic. For context, Salisbury snatched a couple of late goals to make the scoreline more flattering for them, and Farnborough are in the division above me.

Good work Kenty7, really enjoying this tactic and it'll be interesting to see how it fares for the rest of the season.

Cheers buddy! Its saved my faltering Valencia season...

Hi there ,

Gonna try this with West Brom . Can you just tell me how many assists your Fullbacks got please

Hi, left back was 5 when it was Bertrand, but when his loan ended I had Michael Ball who got 3, think his lack of pace hindered him. Right back was 6 all year I think, but my keeper was distributing to the left back so I guess that's about right!

Started using this tactic earlier today and it's worked wonders for me. Before, I was defending solidly but struggling to create much in attack. Since switching to this tactic my wingers and strikers have sprung to life and my form has turned around. My only change has been to switch the target man supply to 'mixed'. But otherwise, it seems to suit my players down to the ground.

Here's an example of my form...

The Woking game is where I introduced this tactic. For context, Salisbury snatched a couple of late goals to make the scoreline more flattering for them, and Farnborough are in the division above me.

Good work Kenty7, really enjoying this tactic and it'll be interesting to see how it fares for the rest of the season.

Thanks! Let me know if it continues, I'm chuffed to get so much positive feedback. I might re-test with the target man changed to mixed, see how that impacts things.

Anyone had anything further with this?

In my first season with Liverpool, I struggled in mid-table for about 15 games with your tactic - flirting with the sack. I think this was due to the sheer amount of new players I brought in (as well as the original new players i.e. Meireles, Poulsen etc). But then the tide turned and I started to grind out results.

In the end I finished up 4th (but I was 2nd and hot on the heels of Utd until about five games to go. We fell away but I was guarenteed Champions League football anyway).

I think this second season will be the real test. I'll let you know.

Oh and by the way, I changed the Target Man supply to mixed seen as I had Torres and Giuseppe Rossi upfront. It actually worked quite well! If I had Dzeko or Hulk though...

hey great tactic! was just wondering how you view the match? i.e do you watch full, key or commentry only? oh and at what speed? thanx.

Personally, I watch it full speed on Commentary only. But I use split screen, so I can use touchline shouts and strategies on the left with my team stats on the right.

hey great tactic! was just wondering how you view the match? i.e do you watch full, key or commentry only? oh and at what speed? thanx.

I personally watch the key highlights in 2D, maily so I can judge if the opposition is getting on top. If they are I tend to use the retain possession shout! I watch at one notch below top speed as I think it's closest to real time.

Oh and by the way, I changed the Target Man supply to mixed seen as I had Torres and Giuseppe Rossi upfront. It actually worked quite well! If I had Dzeko or Hulk though...

Thanks Sheva, I'll be interested to see how that works out, that's a top notch frontline, should bag a good few!

Who are you using wide? Are you using Gerrard as the RCM?

Hey Kenty, actually trying this on two folds, for my FM11 Pmopey team and ALSO my FML team

As with most things FML you need to give it a shed load of matches to bed in but now it seems to be doing ok, its quite a rare beast to get 442 working on live. One problem im encountering is winger cross completion, lots of crosses going in but very rare for any to be comepleted. Guys with good crossing, 15-17 are struggling. Any ideas mate?

Cheers

edit - also noted the DR is getting some amazing ratings, so hats off to that, think your onto something here

Who are you using wide? Are you using Gerrard as the RCM?

I've got Elia and Hazard on the wings, with Gerrard, Pastore and Khedira rotating in the middle.

Guys with good crossing, 15-17 are struggling. Any ideas mate?

I noticed this too, particularly my left winger.

Yep, last game he attempted 9 crosses but completed zero

Fun tactic, thanks! Just finished the first season with Atletico Madrid, played most of the season with this tactic. I finished 3rd after the usual suspects, mainly losing points from away games. My main problem was conceding on the away games. Had some success with this by changing into sort of a nike defense ie. having the centrebacks as central defenders with defend and cover duties and changing the other fullback to a more defending role. I also changed the target man supply to mixed since my forwards aren't particularly good playing in the air. Worked nicely since Forlan was La Liga top goal scorer with 23 goals in the league and Kun scored another 20.

Here's the league table and the tables for home and away games. Also some results from the latter half of the season. Notice the seven consecutive clean sheets after changing the defense late in the season. Hopefully I'll concede less in the next season with my tweaks.

Now that sound interesting! Feel free to post the updated version. I'd quite like to see how this would work with a lower league team. I was hoping for someone to come up with a tighter version!

Thanks for the input, let me know about the next year!

With the crossing, I don't really know? I have the left winger set to "cut in" on the advanced settings, also set to swap with the right winger. Could it be related to them having swapped sides and then crossing on the weaker foot?

I did notice that the RW had much the better stats. I'll have a look and see of I can get the LW to provide a better service!

Here's an update of my Chippenham side using this tactic from the Dafuge's challenge thread, after completing a season. Predicted to finish 22nd in the BSS, but finished 2nd and won the playoffs.

As I said earlier, I changed the target man supply to mixed, just because I don't have many big strikers. I also found that when my team are under pressure switching to a counter attacking style can help relieve the pressure, especially with a quick striker. While it seems that I have conceded quite a lot of goals (we rarely kept a clean sheet), I find that the tactic rarely left me too vunerable at the back. I put my defensive frailties more down to my lack of quality in goal and particularly defence, where I had a bit of an injury crisis in an already weak back line. Also, I experienced a strange trend (which I also had with my own tactic on FM10) where lower table opposition seem to put up more of a fight than better sides. This may be due to them expecting us to come at them, so setting up defensively. But overall the results were very good and my wingers and strikers benefited hugely.

Now i'm looking forward to seeing how it fares in the BSP!

Well i've got to be happy to have produced a tactis that allows someone to take a media predicted 22nd to a 2nd place finish with a playoff win!

With the target man, i've been playing around with the supply settings and i'm leaning toward run onto ball where i have a pacey striker, has lifted the goal ratio for the target man slightly.

It'll be a real challenge in the BSP! Keep me updated i'd like to know how it goes.

Fun tactic, thanks! Just finished the first season with Atletico Madrid, played most of the season with this tactic. I finished 3rd after the usual suspects, mainly losing points from away games. My main problem was conceding on the away games. Had some success with this by changing into sort of a nike defense ie. having the centrebacks as central defenders with defend and cover duties and changing the other fullback to a more defending role.

I've implemented these changes, i'll see how they go. I've left Rafinha as the attacking full-back and Coentrao as the more defensive one, seen as his stamina is 12. I'll report back.

Wish i had something positive to report like most have. sadly however i saw my millwall side lose 6-0 at home in the first game I tried with this tactic. In respect to your work though Kenty I have been using a fairly poor training schedule that has seen my players struggle with fitness all season. Will, unlike so many over the years, reserve judgement until it's bedded in after a few games.

current record: P7 W1 D2 L4 F9 A17

It's going ok for me, i'm top of the league in January. My only problem i'm having at the moment is getting my deep-lying playmaker to perform. Both Gerrard and Pastore have not had an average rating over 7.00 in over two seasons. I'm going to tinker with the MRC to see if I can improve it.

I'll try it with Dortmund and let you know.

Well i've got to be happy to have produced a tactis that allows someone to take a media predicted 22nd to a 2nd place finish with a playoff win!

With the target man, i've been playing around with the supply settings and i'm leaning toward run onto ball where i have a pacey striker, has lifted the goal ratio for the target man slightly.

It'll be a real challenge in the BSP! Keep me updated i'd like to know how it goes.

Sounds like a good idea now I have two pacy strikers to use rather than one.

The BSP is going even better! I got a few good signings, especially in defence and they have made the team a lot more stable. I'm currently top of the league after 18 games, with a +24 goal difference and both the highest amount of goals scored, and the fewest conceded. I think my ball playing CB is the key, breaking down opposition attacks and helping launch new ones. But i'd like to add a good defensive midfielder, as that should make our defence even more solid.

Sounds like a good idea now I have two pacy strikers to use rather than one.

The BSP is going even better! I got a few good signings, especially in defence and they have made the team a lot more stable. I'm currently top of the league after 18 games, with a +24 goal difference and both the highest amount of goals scored, and the fewest conceded. I think my ball playing CB is the key, breaking down opposition attacks and helping launch new ones. But i'd like to add a good defensive midfielder, as that should make our defence even more solid.

I tell you what, that's a cracking turnaround! I'm very impressed. Have you made any other tweaks?

Wish i had something positive to report like most have. sadly however i saw my millwall side lose 6-0 at home in the first game I tried with this tactic. In respect to your work though Kenty I have been using a fairly poor training schedule that has seen my players struggle with fitness all season. Will, unlike so many over the years, reserve judgement until it's bedded in after a few games.

current record: P7 W1 D2 L4 F9 A17

Sorry to hear that, have you tried some of the suggested tweaks? Try setting your target men supply to whatever suits your strikers, e.g. fast strikers run onto ball, big strikers to head, or if they're a bit average mix the supply.

Keep me in the know if you would!

It's going ok for me, i'm top of the league in January. My only problem i'm having at the moment is getting my deep-lying playmaker to perform. Both Gerrard and Pastore have not had an average rating over 7.00 in over two seasons. I'm going to tinker with the MRC to see if I can improve it.

Yeh i've noticed that, i wondered about how to improve both the CM's but i haven't as yet managed to get any reasonable imrprovements, if something works i'd like to hear about it.

I set the MRC to 'Advanced Playmaker' on 'Support' and saw some improvements. This way Pastore spends more time around the box where he can be more dangerous, rather then sitting deep.

How did that effect the stability at the back?

Well I altered the backline too. My fullbacks changed to 'Fullbacks' on 'Automatic', and my centre-half's changed to a covering defender and a central defender. I think it's been more solid.

i started using this tactic after losing 3 games in league 1 with hereford.

won 4 drawn 2. fantastic turnaround.

got the 11.1.1 update today and ive lost 8 in a row! i had to give up on it

I tell you what, that's a cracking turnaround! I'm very impressed. Have you made any other tweaks?

Thanks. And since then it has got better! I'm top of the BSP after 22 games, and beat League 2 Crewe 4-0 away in the FA cup 2nd round! I have considered some changes over time, particularly doing something to make the deep playmaker a bit more involved, but with the results the way they have been I haven't seen the need. I think the difference is that this season I was specifically signing people to fit in this system, whereas before I was just having to make do with the players I had. Once I got a player capable of filling the 'ball playing CB' role it really seemed to click.

I can see why this wouldn't work for some teams, or some managers, but for me it seems spot on. So thanks again Kenty!

i started using this tactic after losing 3 games in league 1 with hereford.

won 4 drawn 2. fantastic turnaround.

got the 11.1.1 update today and ive lost 8 in a row! i had to give up on it

That's odd as 11.1.1 has made no changes to the ME.

i cant buy a win now mate. trying out different formations now. with not much success