Realism of FM 2011

Once again great job delivering a good game to all involved. The only thing that irritates me alot and imo is totally unrealistic is the club team placing in various leagues.

For example the Greek Superleague. Top 3 spots have been clinched amongst 4 teams (olympiakos, panathinaikos, aek and paok) in the past 50 years with the occasional exception (I think maybe 2 times it didn't happen). I usually play the Greek league and I notice after 2-3 seasons the mentioned top teams a lot of time struggle for relagation. I mean olympiakos, panathinakos and aek have won 1st place 57 times in the past 60 years. They should be finishing top all the time in the game.

Same thing with the Scottish Premier League. For the past 30+ years we know who finishes top 2. Rangers and Celtic. Well in the game that is not the case after a few years.

Same goes for the English Premier, Turkish Superleague and so on...

Is this some kind of a code issue? How can it be fixed? Save your answers like "it's just a game" etc.

But it is just a game.

How do we know that Celtic or Rangers wont collapse under their own weight in the next couple of years?

Realistically Manchester Utd could go into meltdown, administration, owing to a near £1bn of debt? Who's to say?

It's a game, it's realism is created for us to take part, but the idea that the outcome needs to remain the same very season is laughable, the game deviates from reality as soon as we enter that world. Take it as it comes.

One of the main reasons big clubs begin to struggle in game is due to financial meltdown. Try using your editor to delete all their debts an up their reputation to 9999. I've been looking at other ways to strengthen the bigger clubs so they continue to dominate over long periods of the game and give me a really tough long term save, so if anyone has any other ideas please tell

Same thing with the Scottish Premier League. For the past 30+ years we know who finishes top 2. Rangers and Celtic. Well in the game that is not the case after a few years.

even though hearts finished 2nd in the 05-06 season

despite it being unrealistic i like it as it means any team can win the league.

But it is just a game.

How do we know that Celtic or Rangers wont collapse under their own weight in the next couple of years?

Realistically Manchester Utd could go into meltdown, administration, owing to a near £1bn of debt? Who's to say?

It's a game, it's realism is created for us to take part, but the idea that the outcome needs to remain the same very season is laughable, the game deviates from reality as soon as we enter that world. Take it as it comes.

Its not exactly realistic to say that all the major clubs in each European league will go into meltown and be fighting for relegation (which is what seems to be happening in this iteration of the game), infact I'd say its thoroughly unrealistic. In 20 years time I would still expect Barca and Madrid, Rangers and Celtic, Inter and Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd etc etc etc to be there or there abouts in their respective leagues. You know, like it was 20 years ago, bar a few exceptions. What I wouldnt expect is by 2015 West Ham, Blackpool and Bolton will be fighting for the league. If you defend that as realism then you are exposing yourself as a blinkered fanboy I'm afraid

How would Blackpool be fighting for the league in 5 years in the game?

Anyhow, i know what you mean, but i find that in some ways the game is totally realistic an in others it's not. Football is the most unpredictable sporting industry imo, on a week by week basis, it's crazy. but the likes of chelsea/man utd should be major clubs for a long long time.

However, look at Juventus in real life. Look at Liverpool, 2 years ago fighting for the title, now europa league. Looking back further into history and there are many many super-clubs who have fallen by the wayside. Rangers have absolutley bugger all money, so do you expect them to be at the top for the next 20 years?

But i understand what your getting at

Its not exactly realistic to say that all the major clubs in each European league will go into meltown and be fighting for relegation (which is what seems to be happening in this iteration of the game), infact I'd say its thoroughly unrealistic. In 20 years time I would still expect Barca and Madrid, Rangers and Celtic, Inter and Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd etc etc etc to be there or there abouts in their respective leagues. You know, like it was 20 years ago, bar a few exceptions. What I wouldnt expect is by 2015 West Ham, Blackpool and Bolton will be fighting for the league. If you defend that as realism then you are exposing yourself as a blinkered fanboy I'm afraid

Couldn't of been said better.

But it is just a game.

How do we know that Celtic or Rangers wont collapse under their own weight in the next couple of years?

Realistically Manchester Utd could go into meltdown, administration, owing to a near £1bn of debt? Who's to say?

It's a game, it's realism is created for us to take part, but the idea that the outcome needs to remain the same very season is laughable, the game deviates from reality as soon as we enter that world. Take it as it comes.

Don't make excuses, this has been an issue with the last few FMs. The simulations are just not as accurate as they should be. The AI also doesn't manage the clubs properly.

Right now because of the Spanish league bug, Im basically simulating the leagues and just getting my feel for the game. This is an issue in every league, top teams finishing mid table, then winning the league the year after, then fighting for relegation the year after that. Its not realistic in that sense at all.

Teams like Liverpool, Juventus, Valencia, Porto etc etc. will finish 6th or 7th sometimes and that is totaly realistic but they will never struggle for relegation. It happens in FM after a few seasons and it happens repeatedly rather than rarely.

It's mainly all down to poor team building from the AI managers (though the rapid drop in reputation doesn't help). eg in my game Inter have not bought any "world class" players in the past 4 seasons but have bought some utter drosse and they have one of the best managers in the world. Genoa are the only team in any of my leagues ( or in the last few actual real yearsof playing )that only but class and by class i mean CA of 190 or going to be up there soon up.

Teams like Liverpool, Juventus, Valencia, Porto etc etc. will finish 6th or 7th sometimes and that is totaly realistic but they will never struggle for relegation. It happens in FM after a few seasons and it happens repeatedly rather than rarely.

To say never is blinkered, okay whilst I agree not after a few seasons, but if you have a twenty/thirty year save anything could happen, look at the league tables from 30 years ago.

Let's go back 20 years in real life. Anyone fancy Chelsea to become a major force in England and win several titles? Or Fulham to establish themselves in the top flight and reach a European Final? or Leeds to go down to tier 3?

How would Blackpool be fighting for the league in 5 years in the game?

Anyhow, i know what you mean, but i find that in some ways the game is totally realistic an in others it's not. Football is the most unpredictable sporting industry imo, on a week by week basis, it's crazy. but the likes of chelsea/man utd should be major clubs for a long long time.

However, look at Juventus in real life. Look at Liverpool, 2 years ago fighting for the title, now europa league. Looking back further into history and there are many many super-clubs who have fallen by the wayside. Rangers have absolutley bugger all money, so do you expect them to be at the top for the next 20 years?

But i understand what your getting at

I read a post earlier where his blackpool team won the prem in 2012. He got £30 mil to spend. Made all his transfers over 48 months and made deals that amounted to over £100 million. Realistic...?

eg in my game Inter have not bought any "world class" players in the past 4 seasons but have bought some utter drosse and they have one of the best managers in the world.

Benitez get sacked then?

I got 2 games going atm, (playing one on my laptop - and one on my pc)

from my laptop i get the following: In the Danish "superligaen" FC Copenhagen always finish in the best end, and over the last years won the most times, but in the game, they got regelated in first season, and Lyngby, a promoted team, ended up at the 2nd place, where Esbjerg won. This would in real life not be very real.

On my main PC also in "superligaen" Brøndby won, with FC Copenhagen 2nd (1 point difrence) and Lyngby regelated. So i think it is really random.

On my laptop i got England, Denmark, Mexico and USA. On my main PC i play with all european leagues, and Mexico, so many more players so get for the difrent teams, but still after reading this post i noticed on my laptop, many bigger teams like AeK just made the cut and dident regelate, in England Arsenal finished as 16th, along with Chelsea on a 9th place. In spain Sevilla won with R.M and Barca on the following places, but Valencia and Villarreal 14th and 17th!!

But on my main pc all seems more realistic, R.M as winners and Chelsea on a 2nd place.

Maybe it something with how big your player database is ?

Benitez get sacked then?

What ever you my think of him IRL he looks the biz in my game at least

Italy Genoa have won 4 straight titles

Eng Prem Chelsea 3 , Arsenal 1

Spain Real Madrid 2, Barca 2 Though barca are currently 6th with no chance of finishing top 3 ( but i wouldn't bet against them getting 4th)

27 year old, never played football too any real level, no coaching badges, love of pies, in charge of Chelsea... Realism, it's a game and I wouldn't be bothered if Stoke or Blackburn won the league in the first season.

Look at the thread with the screenshots from 2034 in game, and you will notice that it is fairly accurate with teams such as Man U, Inter, Barcelona and Marseille all consistently near the top of their respective leagues, if not winning it. There is also a screenshot of Liverpool's history in the 25 years, and the lowest they finished was 7th. You can't say that it isn't realistic, as for all you know some teams may build really good squads. If you look at the Premiership at the moment, Newcastle are 5th, Bolton are 6th and West brom before this weekend were 6th. Are you going to say that isn't realistic?

The game has to be credible and entertaining, and so realism doesn't come into it.

The argument could go on for ever... no it is not realistic... yes it is... Bottom line is in every game I started with all FM's it has been a dissapointment in regards to top clubs finishing at realistic postitions in their respective leagues. It doesn't usually happen in the first season but it certainly starts to be a common thing thereafter. I am certain that it's a code issue, poor AI etc. I am not bashing the game, I am just trying to prove a point so we have an even more realistic game in the coming years.

27 year old, never played football too any real level, no coaching badges, love of pies, in charge of Chelsea... Realism, it's a game and I wouldn't be bothered if Stoke or Blackburn won the league in the first season.

Really??? If that happened I'd suspect the game was broken to be honest.

These things happen.

Tottenham last season where in relegation zone for a fair amount of time, now they're in the Champions League and potential 'title challengers'!

Welcome to the world of Football!

These things happen.

Tottenham last season where in relegation zone for a fair amount of time, now they're in the Champions League and potential 'title challengers'!

Welcome to the world of Football!

Weren't spurs in the relegation zone when Ramos was in charge? which was 2 years ago. I'm sure spurs started well last season, and have been doing well since 'Arry took over

we were bottom in october 2008, got to 7th, then 2009/10 we got 4th. Now doing well in europe but sh*****t in the league.

Bolton and newcastle are 5th and 6th, wba playing really well and so on. Footy is mad.

If teams like man utd are fighting relegation after 3 seasons into the game, then no, it is unrealistic, liverpool less so. But after 15-30 years then anything is fair game

Its not exactly realistic to say that all the major clubs in each European league will go into meltown and be fighting for relegation (which is what seems to be happening in this iteration of the game), infact I'd say its thoroughly unrealistic. In 20 years time I would still expect Barca and Madrid, Rangers and Celtic, Inter and Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd etc etc etc to be there or there abouts in their respective leagues. You know, like it was 20 years ago, bar a few exceptions. What I wouldnt expect is by 2015 West Ham, Blackpool and Bolton will be fighting for the league. If you defend that as realism then you are exposing yourself as a blinkered fanboy I'm afraid

1) I'm 15 seasons into a holiday game testing a new competition. Most big clubs are still there, others have had takeovers and challenged the status quo. This is reality. See Chelsea and Man City for reference.

2) Based on the above, this is not "what seems to be happening in every iteration of the game". I think perhaps you exaggerate.

3) There's something of the blinkered idiot in assuming that no other club outside the current top 4's can possibly win the league and a fictional simulation. It's a game. Are you to complain when Wayne Rooney move's to Madrid because it hasn't happened in real life. do we need a patch should England win the world cup - on account of it being highly unlikely in real life?

I suggest reading the points made more carefully next time. It'll save correcting you, and equally save Erocco psychophantically backpatting you whilst failing to realise that everything you just typed was tosh driven by your urge to proclaim me as a fanboy whilst missing my point by a country mile.

Really??? If that happened I'd suspect the game was broken to be honest.

So Stoke/Blackburn can't win the league, but your chosen team can? Oh sweet jesus this is funny!

Go newcastle!!

Been playing in Spain for a fair amount of games over the past years, seems decent enough... I wouldn't mind seeing Real get relegated, REALLY!!! But the damn AI apparently works.

Some managers just doesn't spent cash on new players, they rather buy youngsters, and keep the money for hookers... Why starting pointing fingers, I totally dig that.

Go newcastle!! .

If Newcastle are not 5th in the table on Nov 7th on my game I'm expecting a refund. It's a lack of realism. (Regardless of me taking Wigan to 2nd.. ROFL)

Loving the premise that the game, based on real life, must exactly follow real life.

Guess I would have to wait another 70 years to win with At.Madrid, well only in the second season....but I sincerely hope its something, there will be down the road in a couple of seasons.

Though financial meltdown, is just around the corner, things are rather rough regarding cash. Might help when they move to a new stadium.

Personally, I feel the game has always deviated from RL far too quickly

Hell, in my game, an AI controlled Sunderland was clear top of the Premiership... they're only not now because I used FMRTE to sabotage them

But even then, they're only 8 points behind the leaders with 8 games to go

Fortunately, the current top 4 are the same as the RL top 4 from last season, but only because I've helped the AI teams abit

Initially in FM, tables tend to be all over the place, it's only after a couple of seasons once everything has settled down that tables feel more too life (strongest teams challenging with the occasional team threatening for upsets and so on, though often different teams from real life, it still represents stability)

Of course, Serié A is being won by Sampdoria atm... now I know I'm not as upto date with Italian football as many years ago, but they haven't become that strong have they? I remember them being mid-table as best after getting promoted years back...

Ligue 1 - Saint-Etienne is 2nd despite media predictions of 15th...

Eredivisie... VVV 2nd, ADO Den Haag 3rd

Bizarrely, the only league that I usually have staying true to life is the Scottish Premiership, with Rangers and Celtic the main two, with one or two other teams threatening to challenge them

And the La Liga also stay close to life as well

I don't mind the occasional team vastly over/under performing... it happens, thats life

However FM usually have it in abundance where loads of teams fall into either category

But, I feel it's more an issue of balance in honesty, due to how the match engine works, meaning a team who will falter badly IRL will do well in FM, due to the stats of their players and staff, and vice-versa

Simulations are such delicate things

At the end of the day.... it's still pretend, from the second we join in.

It being a game, we should enjoy it as such.

Ok, this is the least realistic FM to date.

Some of the problems:

-High paced (pace 14+) strikers score ridiculous amounts of goals. In general strikers get way too many goals compare to real life.

-Players 32 years and over have their stats fall way too fast.

-AI uses too many newgen players (with poor stats) in matches instead of much better players that are available. This is one of the most annoying things for me.

-AI chooses poor penalty takers even if better are available.

-Teams with media prediction to finish lets say 3rd straggle for relegation. On the other hand teams with media prediction to finish lets say 12th challenge 2nd and 3rd place. This happens for every game I started and for many people. I am talking in particular the Greek superleague. This has nothing to do with the greek research team as I know they spent endless hours of updating stats. No greek players are left to random stats and in fact the greek researchers submit one of the most complete packages to SI. It has to do with the poor AI programming.

-Human players some how manage to buy really good players for their teams. AI for the same teams always buy unknown players and as years go by the game becomes really unrealistic and boring.

-I find too many goals are scored from 30+ meters

-Agents ask for ridiculous amount of money for their clients.

-Young foreign mediocre players ask for ridiculous amount of money. (again using the greek league as reference).

In summary I think the game engine is really poorly created. AI doesn't exist. Why do we have to wait for 3 patches and February year after year to have a 50% game?

This is not moaning, it's reality. A lot of unhappy customers out there SI. New features are always welcome and nice to have but who cares about media conferences and trade rumors. Fix the important things first.

For the people that always come up with the phrase "it's just a game" well your expectations might be minimal. My expectations are not and I believe more people would agree with me than not.