Do SI make the best game possible? - genuine question.

Over the last week or so, I've found myself thinking about this ,and the only logical answer is NO.

Being a series of games released every year, surely SI have a gameplan. A long term strategy of what features to add and when. ( I imagine at the moment we are still riding on the coat tails of the 3d match engine feature)

Therefore, when people moan about SI not making the best game ever every year, surely they are not seeing the bigger picture.

If SI made FM2011 as good as they possibly could, all FM2012 and subsequent releases would just be data updates, right?

Would be very interested to hear an insider response on this.

p.s

I am not knocking SI or FM2011 ,and don't intend this to be a thread for this purpose.

I genuinely think FM2011 is the best version of the game as of yet - I also genuinely think it is far from the best game that SI could put out there (as this would be a silly thing to do)

tbf i think they have ideas that they wish to implement but may hold them off for a year or two but i think that's more technological problems rather than monetary interest

I think that they make it the best they can, within the time limits they have.

SI needs to make money to survive.

i dont think a game will ever be perfect. A game can always be improved so they cannot make the best game possible i feel.

i think some have slightly missed the point of the question.

I know they are a business, I know the yneed to make money and I know that they do a great job.

The questions is more.. "do they purposely hold back on features and not make the best game possible in accordance with a long term plan (surely they must plan many games ahead and work out what big features will come in when)

for example FM 03 - major change to the interface

(few years of tweaks and polishes)

Fm07 -introduce 3D match engine

(few years of tweaks and polishes)

FM11 - Agents

( as above)

FM 14 - Major revamp of 3d graphics

FM18 - Pro commentators (or some major new feature that i can't think of) etc etc etc.....

Am i on the right lines, or well off ?

p.s I nkow the versions quoted above are probably not correct for the introduction of features - was just off the top of my head

well if they dont, they certainly make a better game than any other rivals, it would be nice tho if certain other aspects of the game were improveds other than adding new features every year which take months of people moaning to fix them.. but miles ahead of any other game maker..

I'm excited to see what kind of game we will have to play in another 5 years or so.

I dont think si can win with some of you. They leave features out as they are not ready, so you moan they are not in. They put the feature in, you moan its full of bugs and not ready.

I dont think si can win with some of you. They leave features out as they are not ready, so you moan they are not in. They put the feature in, you moan its full of bugs and not ready.

this is exactly not what i meant with the original question. I'm not moaning. Just genuine curiosity as to the workings of the developers of the game that i spend so much of my life playing!

I'm sure they do hold features back. If they just threw everything they could think of into the game at once, it would be a mess. I'm happier with more polished features that work the way they should rather than just more features. There is obviously some truth in the long term planning aspect, you'd have to be incredibly naive not to see that, but they have to get the balance right. Keep the market happy with the game and wanting more, but also not blowing a new feature where it could be introduced better at a later date. I've been critical of SI a bit in the past (and present), but I generally feel they get this balance right. After all, they've got me itching to part with my cash every year despite regular (small) disappointments.

I haven't got a problem with SI's approach to developing the game. I think they'd be more successful with it if they had more staff/testers though.

that's pretty much exactly as i see it

if SI had a proper competitor, and weren't a "monopole" on the football managing sim games, i assure you that every year we will get a MUCH better game and with a lot more features.

but since they are basically the only competent developer around, they can relax and hold back, because really, there is no incentive for them to do otherwise, and you can't blame them for that.

SI, please call EA and ask them for partnership...

Isn't pretty much 80% of a new FM just a data update anyway? I don't rate SI but I've bought most FM titles because it's the only option you have for a management title and don't evem mention FIFA manager, I'm sure SI can do alot better and give us more than 3 patches but if you can bring out a data update with a few new features every year and milk your customers why not? I guess it's how they make money after all, I'd like them to patch the game more before abandoning it to work on the next installment.

And no offence, but I hardly think adding youtube and tweeter crap is a feature that is near the top of your list, if it is then you must have a seriously small list or one made up by a bunch of 8 year olds.

Champ man and fifa manager don't count as competitors? They do try.

Personally, I believe that it is near impossible to reach the 'perfect' state that the developers and players would like to achieve. As some of the previous posters have stated, the ideal product would come as a function of available manpower (quality developers who know the system inside and out), money, innovation (Quality ideas take time to flourish and fine-tune), testing (Partly from the SI Team and from the players themselves), and support in addition to other factors.

It may be simple to see, in the public's eye, how Football Management can be perfected to the point that it only needs database updates (I would dream of this too!). However, if monopolisation was a factor that is hindering the improvement of the product, why are there so many new ideas being added each year? It could also seem simple to throw more men into the game's development, but it will not replace the expertise that the current developers have until they are fully trained (In fact, it could be much like throwing a youth squad into a senior game).

It is not that SI isn't trying to generate the 'best game' that they can, it is simply that they are being sensible about it. This is why, I believe, SI are at the top of the Football Management Simulations market.

SI, please call EA and ask them for partnership...

No no no!

SI needs to make money to survive.

NO , NO , NO and NO

SI need to make good game then people will buy it and then they will get money for their work and mb survive. If they continue to with idea let's get money and live from past games they will not run for long.

I find it hard to belive some of you guys think si twiddle there thumbs for 8-9 month of year and think oh we wont bother much this year people will buy game anyway

1 thing to say NOT A CLUE !!!

The only limiting factor as far I can see is their contractual obligation to release a game every single year, and having a finite number of staff to work on and test the game.

I imagine that makes 'overhauling' any significant part of the game (the match engine, let's say) very difficult, if not impossible. I don't imagine we'll see any dramatic shift between two versions of the game in the same way that there was between CM1, CM2, CM3, CM4, etc.

It's not realistic to expect SI to operate outside of this annual-game business model, so instead what we get is an iterative process where each module of the game is gradually improved year-on-year, and some small modules are added and tweaked.

Or the short answer - of course they make the best game they can, within the boundaries that every software development company has to live with.

I think SI do an amazing job with the series, but I would love to have a game released and not have to wait for a patch to get it right. or like last year, fix one thing but break another with each patch. I would quite happily pay for DLC and have the game released every 2 years with a match engine that works without some major flaws.

You might be happy to do that SFD, but it doesn't make sense for SI as a business model.

NO , NO , NO and NO

SI need to make good game then people will buy it and then they will get money for their work and mb survive. If they continue to with idea let's get money and live from past games they will not run for long.

But all their games are good and people buy their games.

FM 14 - Major revamp of 3d graphics

This should never happen. The moment SI start to prioritise graphics ofer the core game will be the day I stop buying. I have already said in previous posts that the series has never been the same since 3D was implimented. Why make FM like other sports sims which are desperately trying to out-do SI, and failing, by concerntrating on the graphical polish rather than genuine depth and substance. I would be more happy with new/refined features every year as opposed to sharpened graphics . Since I've been playing for many years before 3D was about, I dont really care for it. Its not FIFA, it never will be and Im glad of that fact.

You have to keep in mind, as said in the previous post, SI are a small outfit having to balance fixes for the current release and developing the new edition as well as bake-offs, beer swilling pizza munching podcasts and what not. Also taking into account its a yearly release, with most games now taking 2 years to complete. And even 2 years isnt enough to make a good game anymore... *cough* Fable 3 *cough*

Keep up the good work lads, but more manager interaction please

I think that SI tries to give the best balance game ever. What I do question is making too many features all at once, with little organisation to the game and how much information is given to user that sometimes is overwhelmed with information.

We all know that SI is little studio and don't have the man power to do all the stuff and seen by the Dark Skin delay shows how this little studio is overwhelmed by the sheer work they have to do in all of these features to make them work as it should and balanced with the rest of the game and making it fun and enjoying.

These last games you need to have quite of freetime and be in the zone to play FM, while in past games it was easy to pick where you left off and play for 15 minutes. I think there is room to have this pick where you left off, if the game was much more organised and simplistic, retaining the complexity of football that a lot of people seem to like.

But all their games are good and people buy their games.

As I only play on PC, tell me which ones? FIFA Manager is arcadey game, with db not as close to SI's. FIFA was absolutely the same from 06 to 10, until they ported the last year's 360 version to PC earlier this year, and still PES is my 1st choice. I played Madden NFL 04, 06 and 08, it's ok, but that's just because they didn't have competitors as 2k doesn't have a licence. And NHL... From 06 to 09, it's absolutelly the same, except with updated roster, and again NHL 04, 6 years old game is better than any that got released afterwards.

As on consoles, from what I read online, only FIFA is considered as good game, NBA won't be released at all as it looks, Madden broke and honestly I don't know how are things going with NHL.

so, NO!!!

In answer to the OP's actual question, no, SI don't hold back features because they want a shot in the locker, remember if they did that it would be holding it back till FM2013.

Miles detailed the planning process last year and it's boringly like almost all corporate plans;)

In answer to the OP's actual question, no, SI don't hold back features because they want a shot in the locker

They don't need to as you can always find things to improve, and you can always find new features to put in.

FM's quite a good game considering it's made in 6 months every year, with the other 6 spent supporting each release.

They do try and make the best game possible every year. Some features have to be held back purely because there just isn't enough time to put in EVERY feature that they want to, as they'd likely need even more developers, they'd need alot more testing time (doing 1 new feature could screw up other areas of the game for example), but yeah, they don't have enough time basically. They probably have thousands of possible features they'd like to put in, but they just don't have the time to do so, it's as simple as that really.

i dont mind SI not making the best game. its the man power they have......what really annoys the hell out of me is EA......they have the man power and the Billions €£$$£€ and still they cant make the perfect game......its fare to say FIFA 2011 was a beast....but gameplay wise and freedom to edit. its still not as good as Pro Evo 2011...

It's people that make a game, not money.

Over the last week or so, I've found myself thinking about this ,and the only logical answer is NO.

Being a series of games released every year, surely SI have a gameplan. A long term strategy of what features to add and when. ( I imagine at the moment we are still riding on the coat tails of the 3d match engine feature)

Therefore, when people moan about SI not making the best game ever every year, surely they are not seeing the bigger picture.

If SI made FM2011 as good as they possibly could, all FM2012 and subsequent releases would just be data updates, right?

Would be very interested to hear an insider response on this.

Si make the best game possible with the technology available and the time & money constraints they are working under.

doesn't mean they are making the best game ever. just that its the best game possible, currently. Which is fine for me. To make the best game ever would mean the game would never be realeased

If SI made the best game possible all they would be doing are the DB updates.

They make the best game possible with their resources available to them.

Of course there is incentive! We play the game as well, likewise we realise if we release a product which doesn't get any better or dare I say gets worse, then of course people will no longer buy it. For every single feature that goes in, that has to be coded from scratch and then tested to an extent that it has no knock-ons which break other areas. We do have a features database but as Nick has already said, we're not a huge studio so we have to balance features that will improve the game with the amount of time there is to do it. I honestly don't think 'direct competition' has anything to do with it.

Are you sure that direct competition has nothing to do with it

I am sure that the fact that Championship manager brought out 3D brought forward SI's introcduction of it

3D wasn't a rush job just to compete with CM - we'd been developing the idea and 3D for a number of years prior to it's inclusion. It always seemed to be the next natural step for Football Manager games to be fair.

I am sure 3D was being developed but I wonder if you would have waited until FM10 where the 3D was far superiour to FM09 if champ manager had not introduced it (Although not as goom as FM's

Also theres no point in bangin in loads of new features every year, theres alot tof things in the game currently that needs improving.

I am sure 3D was being developed but I wonder if you would have waited until FM10 where the 3D was far superiour to FM09 if champ manager had not introduced it (Although not as goom as FM's

Sorry a typo, it should read not as good as FM's

The thing that baffles me is that you'll patch up a match engine (say 2009) and it'll be almost perfect. Then, when you released 2010, the match engine has gone to crap again. And we had to go through the process of patching again. Why is this? Why do you tweak with it when the engine is very good?

At the end of the day, SI is a business. Its all about the bottom line!!! But I do believe that they do want to produce the best possible game, and then next year they will look to improve it.