PDA

View Full Version : Older players stats drop - currently too harsh?



FuSS
31-01-2008, 07:53
I don't know if this issue has been offically identified for the next patch, as afew have been, but I think it needs addressing.

Older players (even world class ones) such as Makalee, Laursen, Crespo, Hypia, to name just afew seem to loose their stats far too rapidly I think.

These players are almost usless by the second season of the game afterthe 8.0.1 patch...yet in real life they are still going strong.

I feel that stats generally drop far too quickly currently and would be interested to see what the rest of you think and whether SI see this as an issue at all.

I'd also just like to point out this is my only complaint with FM, I feel that this is best version of the game to date and that the game generally fantastic.

FuSS
31-01-2008, 07:53
I don't know if this issue has been offically identified for the next patch, as afew have been, but I think it needs addressing.

Older players (even world class ones) such as Makalee, Laursen, Crespo, Hypia, to name just afew seem to loose their stats far too rapidly I think.

These players are almost usless by the second season of the game afterthe 8.0.1 patch...yet in real life they are still going strong.

I feel that stats generally drop far too quickly currently and would be interested to see what the rest of you think and whether SI see this as an issue at all.

I'd also just like to point out this is my only complaint with FM, I feel that this is best version of the game to date and that the game generally fantastic.

Ridleys
31-01-2008, 07:58
This has been brought up before. Not all stats decrease that rapidly either, it's mostly the physical attributes that decrease quickly, also some of the mental stats increase as the player gets older and more experienced.

Klimowicz
31-01-2008, 08:05
i agree. i always like a bit of experience in my youngish squads, and it is very rare that players older than 33 can still cut it in the first team. even 31 year olds stats seem to decline too fast.

glamdring
31-01-2008, 08:11
It varies from player to player though. Cristiano Ronaldo still has 15 pace and most of his other attributes still looking very good as a 34½ year old at my FM07 Derby County team. Also Fred and James McFadden, both now 35 or 36, are doing a great job at Stockport in The Championship just as players like Dion Dublin, Barry Hayles, etc are in real life.

ZlatanFollower
31-01-2008, 08:14
in all fairness, you say that they are useless by the end of the first season

we are not at the end of the first season yet, so they may well be useless

also, were these players used a lot throughout the season as, if not, this may have sped up their decline. I know that i played hyypia for about two seasons and he was fine until i stopped

NepentheZ
31-01-2008, 12:52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZlatanFollower:
in all fairness, you say that they are useless by the end of the first season

we are not at the end of the first season yet, so they may well be useless

also, were these players used a lot throughout the season as, if not, this may have sped up their decline. I know that i played hyypia for about two seasons and he was fine until i stopped </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's quite a stupid comment, to be honest. Do you expent FM to predict the future of humanity? Botswana could be a world force in 2010, do you expect FM to mirror that in a world that is unknown? Lets be honest here, when a player gets to 30/31 years old, the Physical stats decline in the masses. There are a few examples where this is true to life, but there are also a few examples where its completely the opposite (Sheringham/Speed).

I never buy players over 28, and excluding the odd exception that happens once every 15 seasons, I'll never keep a player past his 32nd birthday. usually get rid of them by 30-ish.

IbrahimAliMaher
31-01-2008, 13:00
I think the main problem is the AI doesn't value older players. I had a 32 year old as captain whose stamina had dropped quite a bit so he could only really play 1 game a week but he still pretty good in terms of skill, mental, average rating etc. though his pace was down to about 3. I resigned from that job and the new manager stuck him in the reserves, told him he wasn't needed and transfer listed him! I've seen loads of really good older players get left in the reserves or released when they could still do a good job in that division, e.g. Kevin Phillips, Lee Trundle, Steve Howard (went to league 2!), Lee Carsley etc.

eXistenZ
31-01-2008, 13:03
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ridleys:
This has been brought up before. Not all stats decrease that rapidly either, it's mostly the physical attributes that decrease quickly, also some of the mental stats increase as the player gets older and more experienced. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mental stats drop also. I see it with Inzaghi and Maldini, which isn't logical.

SiDolman
31-01-2008, 15:02
I agree this needs to be looked at, its just far too predictable. For example Fulham have just signed Litmanen at the age of 36, in football manager you would never sign anyone at that age to play in the premiership or probably even the championship.

Apart from the fact that all players seem to decline at exactly the same age, i think that their severe drop in performace could also be down to a couple of points;

Firstly that speed could be too important in the match engine.

Secondly attributes achieved by experience are not as important in match engine.

Either way i do believe in many cases, players in football manager (especially attacking) just decline too much after the age of 32. This ignores many past and present premiership players who can still perform at the highest level Giggs, Scholes, Bergkamp, Beardsley to name a few

saware
31-01-2008, 15:04
The stats of Giggs and Scholes drop off fairly rapidly despite being 1st team regulars for me over the 1st couple of seasons. Dont normally keep players over the age of 32 but itd break my heart to get rid of those 2 or see them rot in the reserves.

Mitja
31-01-2008, 15:10
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SiDolman:
I agree this needs to be looked at, its just far too predictable. For example Fulham have just signed Litmanen at the age of 36, in football manager you would never sign anyone at that age to play in the premiership or probably even the championship.

Apart from the fact that all players seem to decline at exactly the same age, i think that their severe drop in performace could also be down to a couple of points;

Firstly that speed could be too important in the match engine.

Secondly attributes achieved by experience are not as important in match engine.

Either way i do believe in many cases, players in football manager (especially attacking) just decline too much after the age of 32. This ignores many past and present premiership players who can still perform at the highest level Giggs, Scholes, Bergkamp, Beardsley to name a few </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

Mitja
31-01-2008, 15:12
or maybe Paulo Maldini. nobody mentioned him and he's probably greatest legend still playing.

Law_Man
31-01-2008, 15:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZlatanFollower:
in all fairness, you say that they are useless by the end of the first season

we are not at the end of the first season yet, so they may well be useless

also, were these players used a lot throughout the season as, if not, this may have sped up their decline. I know that i played hyypia for about two seasons and he was fine until i stopped </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's quite a stupid comment, to be honest. Do you expent FM to predict the future of humanity? Botswana could be a world force in 2010, do you expect FM to mirror that in a world that is unknown? Lets be honest here, when a player gets to 30/31 years old, the Physical stats decline in the masses. There are a few examples where this is true to life, but there are also a few examples where its completely the opposite (Sheringham/Speed).

I never buy players over 28, and excluding the odd exception that happens once every 15 seasons, I'll never keep a player past his 32nd birthday. usually get rid of them by 30-ish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you not realise that this policy does not at all represent the majority of real life football?

I do think physical stats drop off far to quickly currently.

SiDolman
01-02-2008, 07:11
Its just reached new heights, in my current game Tevez has pace of 1 at the age of 34.

Mitja
01-02-2008, 07:15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SiDolman:
Its just reached new heights, in my current game Tevez has pace of 1 at the age of 34. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's why I don't play long term games, lol

SiDolman
01-02-2008, 07:57
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by SiDolman:
Its just reached new heights, in my current game Tevez has pace of 1 at the age of 34.


that's why I don't play long term games, lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You have more things to worry about in long term games. How about the fact that game becomes so easy. In my current game, i have won the premiership in the last 4 seasons and looks like i will the current one. My only challenge is to try and break 100 points! which is looking likely in this season, i have only conceded 6 goals in 16 games! I would have finshed it seasons if it wasn't for my england management - plus i want to see what the game is like with just regens

Ched
01-02-2008, 08:09
Having played a couple of long ish games i've not noticed it to be that bad.

All i do is change the training regime for old players and they get on fine, don't play them too frequently and their stats don't plummet all the time.

Obviously it varies from player to player, but i've been able to get 25+ golas per season out of some 35 year olds (when a youth prospect has take a year or 2 longer to make it than i expected).

Oktober
01-02-2008, 08:19
Premiership is easy because of the ridiculous amount of TV money. Try Serie A with a smaller team...

SiDolman
01-02-2008, 08:30
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Premiership is easy because of the ridiculous amount of TV money. Try Serie A with a smaller team </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but the other teams in the premiership get the tv money

SiDolman
01-02-2008, 08:33
and besides, i cant spend taht much momey that i get because alot of it goes into sustaining the club and wages. Being Nottm Forest, the ground isn't not too big and im not able to expand it

the_gaffa
01-02-2008, 11:19
I agree with this to be honest. The ammount of players I've had that have suddenly become useless past the age of 31 is a little OTT.

In my opinion, they need to tweak this and slow down the rate of the decreasing attribues. Currently, it is way too harsh.

CrazyMcgee
05-02-2008, 04:31
It's far too harsh at the moment, I don't know why they changed it from FM07 tbh.

Joor
05-02-2008, 04:40
Yep as soon as your players get 30 years old, CA will drop - very unrealistic !
Players above the age of 30 loose psycical stats way to fast in FM 08.
If you look at player like Maldini, Cafu, Serginho and Inzaghi they still have good pace and all can play 90 min in reallife.
In FM, as soon as a player get 30 or 31 year old you see pace, acc, stamina and strenght drop so fast its unreal.

Just look at Cafu, hes 37 and he just keep running forward as often as possible all 90 min..
Take anyone in the game who is around 30 year old with high psycical stats then look at him 4 years later - all those stats will be be under 10 .
A high value in professionism and ambition should allow that player to keep hes CA very high even at age above 30 imo!

What I meen is that a player with high professionism and ambition should not peak at the age of 30..there should be some +- variable of 3-4 year on players with very high values so CA doesnt drop 15-20 points as soon as they get 31 or 32 year old .
Every player in the game who is under 30 will be "useless" when they reach 34.
Even those with 20 professionlism, 20 ambition and a CA above 180 ..the psycical stats will still be under 10 when they get 34 years old - maybe its a bug ?

Just to give you an idea; in my milan game, end of first season; Oddo(from 30 to 31 years old), Nesta(31-32), Ronaldo(30-31) and Ambrosini(30-31) all lost around 15 Points over one year . Pace, acc, stamina, jumping and strength all drop 1 or 2 points. Inzaghi who is 34 and very soon 35 ..is totally useless now since he lost 20 points(from 171 to 150), hes pace is 11 , acc 12, strenght 7, 12 stamina etc...

Its to fast SI..way to fast for high professional players..

From patch notes;
- Adjusted the physical attributes decline for older players to start earlier.
BIG MISTAKE SI http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

CrazyMcgee
05-02-2008, 05:11
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">From patch notes;
- Adjusted the physical attributes decline for older players to start earlier.
BIG MISTAKE SI Frown </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed

I enjoy letting players see out there careers with my club and in this new version it's too biased toward young players with good physical stats.

T4RG4
05-02-2008, 05:57
Bias towards the English game then? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I dont know why SI did this, its clear some players should remain competitive (in the Prem) for a while longer not to mention the fact we all have our favourites who we just cannot come to dropping http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

xouman
05-02-2008, 06:31
I have played with newport county for few years. They have Jason Bowen, who has played for swansea, birmingham, reading or cardiff and did nicely. He joined newport at 32.

In every version of fm he is not able to play from the first match, and his stats decrease quickly. But IRL every year he is being one of the best players in BSS. I know it happens with maldini, but this is an example of LLT's

In my current game I had a reliable DMC. When he was 31, was one of the best of my team, and he played always. When he was 32 he was just a good player for my team, but I liked him and made him play always. At 33 assman said that he was not good enough (his technical and phisical stats had decreased a lot) but I still played him 90% of the matches. when he was 34 he was completely rubbish, better than 16 yo players but worse to most aged 18. and he had played a lot and liked his training. Not only his physical stats droped like raindrops, but his technical skills also did. Even overall mental attributes had dropped a bit even when he was playing. At the end of that year, he retired.