Braumiller's Rigid Counter 424 (FM11)

Braumiller's Rigid Counter 424 - http://www.filefront.com/17446569/Rigid Counter 424.tac

Quick disclaimer time! I have never considered myself a great tactician, and I usually play my games using a tactic I have found on this forum.

With FM2011 coming out I decided I would add an extra challenge to my game (as if playing my beloved Leicester City wasn't challenging enough!). Namely by only using a tactic of my own creation AND in addition, this tactic must be made 100% using the tactic creator and default player roles. No slider tweaks anywhere!

My first tactic posting, so be gentle with me! I fully admit that this could be improved with tweaking (and give it a go by all means), but staying within my game parameters here.

Formation - 4-2-4 / 4-4-2 (dependant on your view of the AML & AMR)

Team Settings

Philosophy - Very Rigid

Strategy - Counter

Passing Style - More Direct

Creative Freedom - More Disciplined

Closing Down - Default

Tackling - Default

Marking - Zonal

Crossing - Default

Roaming - Default

Player Roles

GK - Goalkeeper (Defend)

DR - Full Back (Defend)

DCR - Central Defender (Defend)

DCL - Central Defender (Cover)

DL - Full Back (Defend)

MCR - Ball Winning Midfielder (Support)

MCL - Ball Winning Midfielder (Defend)

AMR - Inside Forward (Attack)

AML - Inside Forward (Attack)

FCR - Deep Lying Forward (Support)

FCL - Deep Lying Forward (Attack)

Immediate in-game shout - "Work Ball Into Box"

I wanted to build a tactic using a formation I have not used before, and with settings that are perhaps a little uncommon.

I settled on a counter attacking 4-2-4, with a definite rigidity in the team. In setting up the tactic, I want my players to stick to their instructions.

Noticeable is that the 10 outfield players are basically in 5 pairs. The fullbacks, the centre halves, the central midfielders, the wingers and the forwards.

Matching Pairs

The full backs and wingers are 'matching pairs', in that their roles and settings are identical.

Tandem Pairs

The 3 central pairings are indentical in roles, but have different duties to create a slight variety, causing them to operate in slightly different areas of the pitch while still working together in tandem.

The shout "Work Ball Into Box" drops everyones 'Long Shots' by one. Always down to Sometimes, Sometimes down to Rarely and Rarely stays the same.

The Pairings

Full Backs

Old fashioned full backs. Defend first, defend second They will offer an outlet for a faltering attack and even occassionally put a cross in from the byline, but first and foremost they are paid to defend. No need to spend excessive money on that flair wannabe winger masquerading as a fullback.

Central Defenders

Run of the mill Central Defenders here. One with normal defend duty and one as the cover. Cover & Stopper duties created too large a gap in mentality for my liking.

Central Midfielders

The engine of the team, fighting for possession and then looking for one of the four outlets ahead of them once they have the ball. Here we have a pair of ball winning midfielders patrolling the middle of the park. One slightly more defensive than the other, but they hunt as a duo. The supporting Ball Winning Midfielder is the only player in the 11 with 'Long Shots' not set to rarely, worth keeping in mind when handing out the shirts.

Inside Forwards

Both inside forwards have identical attacking set ups. These guys act as you main initial threats, often being play in by the central midfielders or centre forwards. There natural settings will see them start out wide and cut and run at defenders, causing problems and often shooting. Inside Forwards with opposite favorite foot to their side of the pitch often score more goals (right footer at AML for example), those on their natural side often assisting more.

Centre Forwards

Both FCs are set as Deep Lying Forwards. This is to have them drop deep to find the outlet ball which starts the counter attack. This also creates space behind them for the Inside Forwards to expose. When not counter attacking the split in set ups (one support, one attack) creates slightly differing levels of attack for the defence to contend with. PPM of Comes Deep For Ball is very nice here.

I have had good success with Leicester in the FM11 demo with this tactic. Top goalscorers in the league after 17 games (37 goals) and the least conceded (8).

Screenshots in next post

I hit the transfer list early on and picked up George Elokobi, Tamer Cohen and Eddie Johnson to augment the starting squad. I took Bebe and Gael Kakuta on loan for 3 months each to play the Inside Forward positions and they relished them, Bebe scoring a couple of quality individual mazy run goals, while Kakuta was more of a cut in and hit one from 20-25 yard guy.

Leicester have far from ideal players for these roles (especially the MCs) but results and league position have been very pleasing.

I might try and play a half season with a big club to see what can be achieved with better players, but I would be very interested to hear if anyone else uses this and their results.

Braumiller's Rigid Counter 424 - http://www.filefront.com/17446569/Rigid Counter 424.tac

League Table

Fixtures - One bad patch where I had 5 games in 2 weeks and a bad run of form / luck / insert other excuses here!

Squad

My favorite new items so far, it hits everything I was trying to accomplish with the tactic! Sturdy defense and battling midfield!

This is actually one of my favorite formations this and 4-2-3-1 i just like the way the 4-2-4 is played good results with such a basic setup of tactics no sliders adjusted good job.

this is the way i have gone 424

i have tried 4231 , 433 and cant get 1 striker to work --- the shape loosk all wrong

this 424 is very similar to what i posted a few days back , my liverpool team was top at the end of the demo !!

thing is i tried my tac at derby in another save and it was useless

this how ever is working great !

great job

Good to hear dooter

The no tweaking really is a huge plus for me. I prefer the freedom to use the in-game shouts if needed and have them affect what they should (which of course they do not if the slider is checked and tweaked).

Truth be told apart from the mentioned "Work Ball Into Box" shout I use immediately in every game, I have rarely used any others.

I am now itching for next Friday to roll around so I can get started in ernest

(Download count keeps rising, so hopefully this tactic is doing some good out there!)

pretty much all of your choses seams to make sense to me, and with a style very different to my own, I want to give this a shot

I have however got the impression that 4-4-2 ish tactics work better going forward if you stagger one of the central lines of players (ie stopper, ballwinner suport and attacking striker in one line while the holding DC, holding ballwinner and suport striker goes in the other), maybe that could be worth trying out?

all the " work ball into box " does is lowers the players LONG shots a notch ...so i would tend not to shout it

all the " work ball into box " does is lowers the players LONG shots a notch ...so i would tend not to shout it

Aye, in my pre-season games we were wasting too many attacks with long pot shots at goal for my taste so this is why I added this.

Of course, if you have players who are proficient at long rangers........

Surely if you kept all players long shots to rarely you wouldn't need to use this shout?

For those downloading the tactic and using it, then absolutely that makes sense. But the whole point of this tactic for me and my FM11 game is to avoid individual tweaks

One question, how good are your results against teams that have 3 players in central midfield (AMC, MC or DMC)? With only 4 players doing defensive work in the middle of the field, doesn't that make your team vulnerable to teams with good passing? That's where most 4-4-2 formations fail after all. Then again, having two ball winning midfielders is definately a plus.

Will give this a go and post back results, cheers!

One question, how good are your results against teams that have 3 players in central midfield (AMC, MC or DMC)? With only 4 players doing defensive work in the middle of the field, doesn't that make your team vulnerable to teams with good passing? That's where most 4-4-2 formations fail after all. Then again, having two ball winning midfielders is definately a plus.

This was one of my main concerns beforehand as well actually, but I did not notice any main worries (at the Championship level anyway).

With all 4 defenders being on defensive settings, there is always a full bank of 4 to get past as well, which helps a lot. As you mentioned, both MCs being Ball Winning Midfielders too helps.

With this solid six, many of the oppositions attempts are long range, as they struggle to break it down or get behind them. If they push their full backs up to help break us down, that then plays nicely into our hands with the counter attacks and the pair of inside forwards

Off out for the day in a few minutes, but when I get back I will check back through the draws and defeats and look for any sign of 3 central midfielders hurting us.

I do remember the first 2-1 league defeat, as they scored from a corner and a scorching 30-35 yarder, which I just chalk up as one of those things.

I'm going to try this with Newcastle on the Demo - will keep you updated!

Braumiller, what size pitch are you using?

Braumiller, what size pitch are you using?

When the groundskeeper asked, I chose the default / normal / middle-of-the-road setting.

Played two matches with man city using this and I've conceeded six goals. I lost 3-2 at home to spurs and 3-1 away to the mighty Sibir.

:/

Played two matches with man city using this and I've conceeded six goals. I lost 3-2 at home to spurs and 3-1 away to the mighty Sibir.

:/

Pretty much because with Man City you have too many stars, that need to play fluidly! And i wouldnt play a 4-4-2 with them!

You seem to have some really good results there mate, well done

Pretty much because with Man City you have too many stars, that need to play fluidly! And i wouldnt play a 4-4-2 with them!

You seem to have some really good results there mate, well done

Well firstly, I'm not playing 4-4-2 and secondly, having too many stars does not in any way mean I must play fluidly or they will fail, defenders don't have 15+ creativity.

Silly post tbh.

Well firstly, I'm not playing 4-4-2 and secondly, having too many stars does not in any way mean I must play fluidly or they will fail, defenders don't have 15+ creativity.

Silly post tbh.

Did you switch to the tactic midseason?

Truth be told, I am having very nice success with Man Utd and this tactic currently.

Conceded 4 goals in my 10 Prem games so far, 2 were Fabregas long range beauties and one was a 30 yard Huddlestone goal of the season contender (forget the other).

Two matches, mid-season when the tactic hasn't settled (on the match preparation screen, when you load the tactic in as one of your three, what are your formation, mentality, passing style, creative freedom, closing down, marking, tempo and width familiarity levels?) is not going to give you a good indication.

If switching midseason, I would suggest changing slowly over time. I.e. switch shape, but keep your existing width, marking, tempo etc..

I played around 10 games with Wolfsburg, beating Bayern 2-0 away and placing 1st. We play nice football!

When I got in trouble in ne of the game, I pressed up, hassle opp, and playe narrower, which changed the game.

Also in some games I changed the ball winner to a more creative role to help break down the oppo - seemed to work well.

I've stopped playing with the demo, but I think this setup will be my basis for the full game

Used this for a season since my pre-order came early.

Initially very very good, then injuries ravaged me and now in a consistent slump that I can't shake off regardless of what I do.

This was one of my main concerns beforehand as well actually, but I did not notice any main worries (at the Championship level anyway).

With all 4 defenders being on defensive settings, there is always a full bank of 4 to get past as well, which helps a lot. As you mentioned, both MCs being Ball Winning Midfielders too helps.

With this solid six, many of the oppositions attempts are long range, as they struggle to break it down or get behind them. If they push their full backs up to help break us down, that then plays nicely into our hands with the counter attacks and the pair of inside forwards

Off out for the day in a few minutes, but when I get back I will check back through the draws and defeats and look for any sign of 3 central midfielders hurting us.

I do remember the first 2-1 league defeat, as they scored from a corner and a scorching 30-35 yarder, which I just chalk up as one of those things.

have been trying it with Roma for a secound run on the demo and I did struggle a bit with Inters 4-2-3-1 outnumbering my center, so after an early 1-0 lead I droped Baptista back into the midfield (going for a 4-1-2-2-1 winger formation) around the 60 min mark to see it out, and went on to score a cuple more

so far the tactic look like a very good framework to build something from, may I put a modified version in my own thread if I end up making one? (you would ofcorse be credited for covering the basics should such a thing hapen)

have been trying it with Roma for a secound run on the demo and I did struggle a bit with Inters 4-2-3-1 outnumbering my center, so after an early 1-0 lead I droped Baptista back into the midfield (going for a 4-1-2-2-1 winger formation) around the 60 min mark to see it out, and went on to score a cuple more

so far the tactic look like a very good framework to build something from, may I put a modified version in my own thread if I end up making one? (you would ofcorse be credited for covering the basics should such a thing hapen)

Absolutely. Look forward to it

I like this formation but I wold not use it against 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 as the opposing full backs become spare men and the MC's will be swamped. I'll be interested to see how Leicester does in the EPL. Most teams in the English lower league use the 4-4-2 this formation has it beaten but against other formation it will be interesting.

Thank you for this tactic. I've tested so many tactics recently, 433,451,4231,442...None of them works as well as this. This is definately the best at the moment. Hope you can make more tweaks etc to make it better! Please don't abandon this post!

I went with this for half a dozen games with Wigan, I only scored in the League cup and lost the remainder of my games. However, I did create numerous chances and never got thumped so maybe it was closed to something?

What is your corner setup? Have you done anything with corner and free kick etc? Is it within the tactic or do we need to make our own situations?

Will give this a try and see how i go.

And adding to the question above - You don't use any playmaker and target man?

What is your corner setup? Have you done anything with corner and free kick etc? Is it within the tactic or do we need to make our own situations?

Everything is left entirely to default here.

And adding to the question above - You don't use any playmaker and target man?

Nope, neither a playmaker or targetman set in this tactic.

nice tactic, played 2 games so far

Wolves 2 - 1 Newcastle

and

Wolves 5 - 0 Man utd

yes, that last one is correct!

so if it is default, do you score FK and corner goals? =)

so if it is default, do you score FK and corner goals? =)

Corners, not so much (2 in 22 Championship games, most is 8 for one team)

Free kicks are doing good (5 indirect free kick goals, teams range from 1 to 7)

How are people finding this in 11.1?

not going very well

Surport from China。

Doesn't work for me

Does this work well in 11.1?

I had great results with this tactic before I patched it. Starting a new game up patched and will try it again.

As Hearts I was struggling 5th the first season with my own tactics. Second season and a few new players this romped me home to 1st place.

Also id drop the right hand sided striker into AMC and make him a play maker. I signed Luis Jimenez for 1.3 and despite poor fitness as playmaker in the hole with this tactic he dominanted. I went from not making many chances to over 10 CCC's against Rangers and a 25-4 shots at goal in my favour. I won 3-0 but it could have been so much more.

These tactic get the thumbs up from me. Although it kind of ruined my challenge..... so new game start for me.

I had great results with this tactic before I patched it. Starting a new game up patched and will try it again.

As Hearts I was struggling 5th the first season with my own tactics. Second season and a few new players this romped me home to 1st place.

Also id drop the right hand sided striker into AMC and make him a play maker. I signed Luis Jimenez for 1.3 and despite poor fitness as playmaker in the hole with this tactic he dominanted. I went from not making many chances to over 10 CCC's against Rangers and a 25-4 shots at goal in my favour. I won 3-0 but it could have been so much more.

These tactic get the thumbs up from me. Although it kind of ruined my challenge..... so new game start for me.

When you dropped the right-handed striker to the hole did you change any of his instructions?

Just picked up this tactic with my Oxford United side. I had played a couple of pre-season friendlys previously with a standard 4-4-2 formation, including a 4-4 draw with Liverpool, but thought I would trying something different.

So far I've played one match, drawing 1-1 with Stoke, but it seemed a much better performance, certainly at the back. Playing a game now against Oxford City, and loosing 1-0 at half time, so I think it's going to take a bit of time to tinker with.

Certainly a good base tactic! I'll report back with my progress!

EDIT: Managed to win 1-5 against Oxford City in the end, a game of two halves if there ever was one...

I have tried this with Salisbury in the BSS (2011/12) with 11.1. Not going very well so far. In the first four games of the season, 0 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses. The draws were at home.

This tactic is working really well for me. I was expected to get a respectable position but using this tactic and only a couple of signings, I'm fighting for the title. I have been hard pushed to find players who fit the roles perfectly and yet it's still very effective, conceding very few and winning by 1, 2, 3 goals. It's really nice to see my pretty poor team grinding out results against much better teams. I must say, when my two strikers are playing (Trevor Benjamin and Leo Fortune-west, both good deep-lying forwards) I destroy teams on the counter with goals coming from those two and the inside forwards. It works equally well on 11.1.1 and 11.1.0 as it does on the original game.

Cheers mate, great tactic.

... well, definitively a very good tactic.

I'm currently managing Gavorrano (4th italian division, predicted as a "sure" relegated team) and I'm 3rd after 17 games (9W, 5D, 3L), only 2 points down to 1st place. I play a very nice football, create a lot of chances and scored a lot (38), the only problem is the number of goals conceeded (24) but consider my GK, DCR and DCL are absolutely rubbish, so I think that better players could solve the problem...

No need to shout "work ball into box", long shots are not a problem (almost never more than 20%), maybe the hardest work is tweakening instructions for corners (good results now for me...) and free kick (still a big headache, too many useless shots lost in sidereal space ...).

So thanks Braumiller, a very solid work.....

P.S. game fully patched