The Set Piece Creator - Discuss your view of it

Having just downloaded and been playing the demofor a bit looking at the new features SI have been spouting on about.

I get to the "set piece creator" and after giving it a once over i start to realise its EXACTLY THE SAME just now i see a visual image of it

and on top of that now I cant even have two players attack the far post etc I am limited to one.

I was thinking (hoping in fact) that when i heard of this "New" addition of set piececreator I could create some corner routines myself ,sorting out where each player positions himself etc, possibly even have a few different routines used throughout the game, rather than the same old crap we have always had.

My complaint is about the set-piece creator being announced as a revolutionary feature, when in truth it is the same as in previous versions.

and on top of that now I cant even have two players attack the far post etc I am limited to one.

You/we always were, it just wasn't obvious from the interface that the 2nd guy in fact went off to take up a different position.

I can't really disagree with you, though it was never likely to be a set piece creator like CM's. Still, the new interface probably makes it more engaging for some people.

I don't really like the set pieces creator. When the tactics creator came in, it was really helpful because it saved time compared to setting up all of the tactical instructions manually. The set pieces creator, on the other hand, isn't any faster than setting up set pieces the old fashioned way. I think there's potential for it to become a helpful feature, but for now I don't think it really adds anything to the game.

Yep, totally agree! It's just another way to do the same thing!

I also thought that with the tactic creator we could "invent" some routine... anyway perhaps in the future.

One thing i think should be added is in the free kick taker.

For example, i play with Benfica, and having Cardozo in my team he is an excelent free kick taker. But he's good tacking free kicks in the frontal area of the box. But if i put him to take the free kicks he will take the frontal direct free kicks, and also the sideways free kicks (that usual are taken by a more "corner taker" player).

So in the future, perhaps in FM2012 the "free kick taker" item should be divided in others depending in the area where the free kick is taken, for example:

1) Frontal direct Free kicks Takers

2) Right side free kicks takers

3) Left side free kicks takers

Just one ideia!

Completely agree, the one thing that has really annoyed me about this demo.

I was hoping for some level of "creation" but sadly that hasn't happened. I would say the visual is a definite improvement on what was there before but it's been let down by the hype and the title of "set-piece creator" which it clearly isn't.

Hopefully one day...

You/we always were, it just wasn't obvious from the interface that the 2nd guy in fact went off to take up a different position.

I'm sure that if you put two players in the same position on FM10, both would go there.

I have to agree with the sentiments here, its disappointing to say the least. I would have liked the option to have 3 or 4 set-ups ready , so you could use them as the progress of the game goes. e.g. chasing a last minute equaliser, so you might want to put the keeper forward as well. Currently, you have to change them via the tactic page and it might be 5 or 6 minutes before it is enacted in the game. Match would most likely be over by then.

My views

I want an MR staying on the right wing incase my corner taker has an overpowered cross (cannot do this)

Similarly, i want an ML staying on the left wing for an overhit cross (if it's the other side - cannot do this due to being unable to set the sides)

Also, depending on where the cross/ corner comes in from depends on how i want to defend

eg. corner comes in from the left then i want my ML to be up the pitch and the ST to be in the centre circle (ST can be set, but not the ML) - in order to play a quick counter (vice versa for the right sided delivery)

That's just corners, it takes FAR TOO LONG to fully set up (but will probably do this on the full game... cba with demo)

I found it disappointing as well. All it adds is having the instructions visually represented, which is great for newbies.

Would have liked:

1) More options

2) Ability to save set-piece configurations so that I can apply the same config to several tactics or apply different configs to the same tactic

Sadly, this new feature is a FAIL.

It does exactly the same as the drop down system, except it takes longer and it's harder to tell what's going on.

I went back to the old way very quickly and I doubt if I'll be going back.

A set-piece creator, or at least tweaker, would be a major plus for the game.

It's just made for newbies and the people who always left the corner kick settings to default.

I personally wouldn't have had anything much to do with a true set piece creator - the game already does "kick it at the huge guy and hope" pretty well, and I don't know much past that.

I dunno where this is... or is it because i use the classic tactics system?

I'm totally guessing here, but where you're limited to one person attacking the far post, isn't this to stop unrealistic set pieces? One problem with a custom set piece creator is you could just overload the near post with nine players, and have the corner taker hit the near post, producing unrealistic results. If they've limited it because of that, it seems fairly sensible to me (although perhaps having two players doing the same thing might be realistic.

I've not seen the creator myself, but I'd have hoped to be able to set players' starting positions and runs. The best corners I ever saw were Man United's in 1996/97 which they used to devestating effect against Liverpool when they won 3-1 with Pallister I think getting a brace. Three defenders held their positions on the 18 yard line and, as soon as the corner was drifted in, they all ran forward and basically had free headers because Liverpool were man marking rather than zonal marking.

I'd have loved to create that corner routine.

Yep, totally agree! It's just another way to do the same thing!

I also thought that with the tactic creator we could "invent" some routine... anyway perhaps in the future.

One thing i think should be added is in the free kick taker.

For example, i play with Benfica, and having Cardozo in my team he is an excelent free kick taker. But he's good tacking free kicks in the frontal area of the box. But if i put him to take the free kicks he will take the frontal direct free kicks, and also the sideways free kicks (that usual are taken by a more "corner taker" player).

So in the future, perhaps in FM2012 the "free kick taker" item should be divided in others depending in the area where the free kick is taken, for example:

1) Frontal direct Free kicks Takers

2) Right side free kicks takers

3) Left side free kicks takers

Just one ideia!

Wide freekicks were treated like a corner already in FM10.

I'm totally guessing here, but where you're limited to one person attacking the far post, isn't this to stop unrealistic set pieces? One problem with a custom set piece creator is you could just overload the near post with nine players, and have the corner taker hit the near post, producing unrealistic results. If they've limited it because of that, it seems fairly sensible to me (although perhaps having two players doing the same thing might be realistic.

I've not seen the creator myself, but I'd have hoped to be able to set players' starting positions and runs. The best corners I ever saw were Man United's in 1996/97 which they used to devestating effect against Liverpool when they won 3-1 with Pallister I think getting a brace. Three defenders held their positions on the 18 yard line and, as soon as the corner was drifted in, they all ran forward and basically had free headers because Liverpool were man marking rather than zonal marking.

I'd have loved to create that corner routine.

You can't do that anymore. Only one player can Attack from Deep ... which I find unrealistic. But according to SI answer in the Feed back thread, this was removed because the engine couldn't handle it well.

Edit: this is the answer from SI on my question about why they removed the possibility to have more than one player Attacking from deep:

4) That is true. I believe this was changed when there was a review of the system performed before implementing the new set piece editor, and it was decided there were underlying issues with allowing the user this freedom.

I posted my thoughts on this pre-demo here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/225053-FM2011-Set-Piece-Suggestions

People said I should wait for the game to come out.

Well, I have.

The set piece editor is a good idea. It makes it more visual, easier to see and manipulate who and what you are doing.

I have no problem with that.

My problem, is that instead of expanding the set pieces themselves, they have actually gone backwards, to limiting 1 player per 'special' position.

I suspect it's because Si can't stop the various "corner bugs".

Wide freekicks were treated like a corner already in FM10.

Are you sure about that? Because i remember in FM2010, when i select a player as a free kick taker, he would take all the "ofensive" free kicks (frontal and wide ones)

Are you sure about that? Because i remember in FM2010, when i select a player as a free kick taker, he would take all the "ofensive" free kicks (frontal and wide ones)

Then you were doing something wrong.

I am 100% sure.

I'm totally guessing here, but where you're limited to one person attacking the far post, isn't this to stop unrealistic set pieces? One problem with a custom set piece creator is you could just overload the near post with nine players, and have the corner taker hit the near post, producing unrealistic results. If they've limited it because of that, it seems fairly sensible to me (although perhaps having two players doing the same thing might be realistic.

Did you not see Everton against Liverpool at weekend? They had 4 players near post. Weirdest corner Id seen they basically overloaded the near post 4 of their players 4 of liverpools to make it impossible for reina to collect. with good delivery that could cause major mayhem

Personally, I'm not too bothered that this isn't a real creator.

They had that on CM and it was fiddly, annoying and ultimately boring, never to be touched again after the first try. Then again CM was just a bad game.

I'm happy with how it is now in the demo, giving you a overview visually of where the players will generally be.

This is only the first implentation of it in the game.

I'm sure that over the years we'll get more options and the ability to set more then a single player on some of the options for attacking free kicks when SI have managed to get the match engine to simulate that without creating the corner expoit of a couple of versions ago.

SI won't want us to create elaborate corner routines with player movements until they can get the AI capable of doing the same thing. Otherwise the user will have an unfair advantage over the AI.

Its just completely hopeless and useless.

Definitly a wizard, not a creator. Clever advertising by SI though.

Have to say myself that i find it quite useless.

I don't consider it a creator, but a graphical overview of the old stuff.

Fair enough, i can drag the little dots, but only to preset positions.

My own personal conclusion: A waste of time and resources to implement the set piece creator.

I wish you could have personal instructions and secondary instructions for set pieces. So I could for my tall striker tell him that I always want him to attack the Far post, no matter where I play him on the field. It is fiddly and ultimately impossible to keep the right people in the right positions if you use the 'Swap position' option or you manually move people around.

Secondary could be whatever my set piece formation is set to, but if someone has the personal setting, he trumphs it. F.x. my Tall striker has Personal setting: 'Attack Far Post', and on the set pieces formation, he is set there too. No problem. Now the other striker is set to lurk because of his good Long Shot attribute. Now I want to Swap those two in their Player Instructions. This means that in the current implementation, the tall player will be outside the area when swapped, and the other one is attacking the far post. Not what I want. But in my example, they would both keep their designated positions, no matter that they actually swapped positions on the field, as their Personal instructions overrides the set piece instructions.

How to handle it if two players have the same Personal instructions, I haven't really thought through yet .... but I am sure it should be possible to implement.