Keithyboyz Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Does anyone know if Man Utd Finances are goin to be easier to keep under control in Football Manager 2011? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 no they wont Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronaldo_rooney Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Not as hard as getting the scousers out of the relegation zone...but will still be difficult to manage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithyboyz Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yeah i know! after two seasons finances just went mental Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Not as hard as getting the scousers out of the relegation zone...but will still be difficult to manage. we wont start in the relegation zone, and besides that is temporary. your likely screwed for a long time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronaldo_rooney Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 we wont start in the relegation zone, and besides that is temporary. your likely screwed for a long time 1. I was talking about a real life example. 2. UTD have one of, if not the biggest fan base in the world and bring in so much money, they wont do a Liverpool. The dynasty aint over yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInvisibleMan Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Why would they be? Nothing has changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Full discussion about the finances in FM 11 in here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/153606-ENGLAND-(Manchester-United)-Data-Issues?p=5994901#post5994901 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgrubb Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yeah i know! after two seasons finances just went mental never managed man u and thinking about it this time can someone explain their finances year by year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronaldo_rooney Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Why would they be? Nothing has changed. Increased revenue for one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithyboyz Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Every time u play with them you keep everything under control then u check finances and its swinding into the red! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Ive discussed this to death in the data issues thread. Basically the info in the game/demo at the moment is wrong. Last years figures was inputted as that was the data available at the time. Since then (ie just over a week ago) new info regarding the finances has come to light so it SHOULD be ammended when the data is next reviewed, possibly for a patch. The loan debt in the game/demo now is £664m which is way off what it really is. Latest figures show it to be £521.7m so im guessing the £140m diffence will actually be a massive hinderence in the game (as if it isnt hard enough already). Hopefully by the time a patch is released it will be changed to a more realistic figure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 As Nick has mentioned several times, we are responsible for the entire debt of all the parent companies, since none of the other Glazer businesses are actually generating money, so it makes sense to include the original PIK loans plus the bond repayments, which comes to c.£750m or whatever it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 As Nick has mentioned several times, we are responsible for the entire debt of all the parent companies, since none of the other Glazer businesses are actually generating money, so it makes sense to include the original PIK loans plus the bond repayments, which comes to c.£750m or whatever it is. Yes but as far as the PIK is concerned, they can pay money as and when they please. If they have a good year they can pay more off. If they have a bad year then not so much. If they wanted to they dont have to pay a penny until 2017 and then clear the PIK plus any interest so its unfair to put it in the game and set up structured payments when there is no structure. Its not like the bank loans where there is monthly payments for a set number of years. That is fine because you can replicate that in the game. Until FM can replicate real finances and real financial structures, things like that should be left out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Edwards Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Give it a rest. You are getting boring now moaning about something you haven't even played Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yes but as far as the PIK is concerned, they can pay money as and when they please. If they have a good year they can pay more off. If they have a bad year then not so much. If they wanted to they dont have to pay a penny until 2017 and then clear the PIK plus any interest so its unfair to put it in the game and set up structured payments when there is no structure.If, however, leaving them out skews the financial setup of the club in an 'unfair' way, then they need to be in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djvandyke Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 United should be losing a minumum of £40 million a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 If, however, leaving them out skews the financial setup of the club in an 'unfair' way, then they need to be in. This is exactly what I was asking in the data issues thread. I was asking what figure would best replicate the finances so the game runs them as close to real life as possible. Because FM doesnt have real life structures set in place, if a figure is too high (even though it may be the actual figure IRL) the club would just fold in the game no matter what you did to try and stop it. Or it could be the other way round. The figure you put in FM may be the real figure but when playing the game its too easy get yourself into the black. Until FM can handle finances in a proper way your always going to need to find a balance. Some of Man Utd's debts are taken out in dollars. So depending on the market value at the time of sterling/dollar, the club could in effect make money from it or lose some. FM does not replicate this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Give it a rest. You are getting boring now moaning about something you haven't even played If you have nothing constructive to say dont bother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavericktangoII Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Ocean finance on the phone ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Ocean finance on the phone ! Could do with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yes but as far as the PIK is concerned, they can pay money as and when they please. If they have a good year they can pay more off. If they have a bad year then not so much. If they wanted to they dont have to pay a penny until 2017 and then clear the PIK plus any interest so its unfair to put it in the game and set up structured payments when there is no structure.Its not like the bank loans where there is monthly payments for a set number of years. That is fine because you can replicate that in the game. Until FM can replicate real finances and real financial structures, things like that should be left out. Leaving it out is even more inaccurate because it exists! In the absence of any further information, it's fairest to assume they'll either amortise the PIK loan evenly or pay it like a loan. Our finances are probably by far the most convoluted in the footballing world - it's no surprise the game breaks for our club. No other club has a bond issue plus PIK loans of such value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I doubt it. Man Utd are likely going the same way as Liverpool in the next 5 years. Only it won't cost £300m to bail them out it will be more like £1bn, good luck finiding an investor with that much money. So United haveing hard to control finances is realistic, in fact this year it should be harder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Leaving it out is even more inaccurate because it exists!In the absence of any further information, it's fairest to assume they'll either amortise the PIK loan evenly or pay it like a loan. Our finances are probably by far the most convoluted in the footballing world - it's no surprise the game breaks for our club. No other club has a bond issue plus PIK loans of such value. This is exactly my point. Yes the debt in the game should be as IRL but theres more to it than just putting a figure in and having done with it. As you say, there are factors which FM cant possible replicate yet. This year was full of one off payments and next year should see a decline in the losses. Obviously things could change but that is how it is expected to go at the moment. This is why, becuase United is unique in this situation in FM, im trying to find a figure for the debt that will better mirror the debt IRL. Now I understand this may be a made up figure but Id rather make up a figure that the game can work with more accurately than input the real figure and the club folds in two seasons no matter how many players you sell and cut back on wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I doubt it. Man Utd are likely going the same way as Liverpool in the next 5 years. Only it won't cost £300m to bail them out it will be more like £1bn, good luck finiding an investor with that much money.So United haveing hard to control finances is realistic, in fact this year it should be harder. The loans are not the problem. The club can cover them. Its the PIK's thats doing it. Obviously the Glazers wasnt expecting the shopping malls to fail but these things happen. They still have Tampa Bay. Dont forget, the NFL in America is like out Premier League here. Who's to say some rich yank wont come and buy Tampa Bay and the Glazers use that money to pay debts off. I really do think they have something up their sleeve, unfortunately they are riding it out too long and should have done something a long time ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 The loans are not the problem. The club can cover them. Its the PIK's thats doing it. Obviously the Glazers wasnt expecting the shopping malls to fail but these things happen. They still have Tampa Bay. Dont forget, the NFL in America is like out Premier League here. Who's to say some rich yank wont come and buy Tampa Bay and the Glazers use that money to pay debts off. I really do think they have something up their sleeve, unfortunately they are riding it out too long and should have done something a long time ago. I hope for the sake of football Man Utd don't plummet into major finanncial problems. But that seems to be one potential postive outcome, there is a lot of room for negative outcomes. What happens if Man Utd don't make the Champions League this season? Certianly a possibility, with the Rooney situation not helping at all. This was the article that hit me how much trouble United are in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/10/crunching_the_numbers_at_old_t.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I hope for the sake of football Man Utd don't plummet into major finanncial problems. But that seems to be one potential postive outcome, there is a lot of room for negative outcomes. What happens if Man Utd don't make the Champions League this season? Certianly a possibility, with the Rooney situation not helping at all. This was the article that hit me how much trouble United are in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/10/crunching_the_numbers_at_old_t.html Have a look at THIS. Its really opened my eyes to a lot of stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
megasuperb Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 1. I was talking about a real life example.2. UTD have one of, if not the biggest fan base in the world and bring in so much money, they wont do a Liverpool. The dynasty aint over yet. I hate how utd fans always go "well we're awesome and popular so we're immune to bad things!!". Newsflash, you're nearly 1bn in debt and if nothing is done about it soon you'll have a bigger trainwreck than Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Have a look at THIS. Its really opened my eyes to a lot of stuff. I'll give that a proper read in the next couple of hours. Seems like a good in depth article. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoRobbo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I hate how utd fans always go "well we're awesome and popular so we're immune to bad things!!".Newsflash, you're nearly 1bn in debt and if nothing is done about it soon you'll have a bigger trainwreck than Liverpool. Dont know many Utd fans do you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Dont know many Utd fans do you Yes, he is getting Utd confused with Liverpool who are the most ridiculously delusional fans ever. Read this for a laugh: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264956.0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 nothing wrong with RAWK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 This is exactly my point. Yes the debt in the game should be as IRL but theres more to it than just putting a figure in and having done with it. As you say, there are factors which FM cant possible replicate yet. This year was full of one off payments and next year should see a decline in the losses. Obviously things could change but that is how it is expected to go at the moment. This is why, becuase United is unique in this situation in FM, im trying to find a figure for the debt that will better mirror the debt IRL. Now I understand this may be a made up figure but Id rather make up a figure that the game can work with more accurately than input the real figure and the club folds in two seasons no matter how many players you sell and cut back on wages. There are a lot of finances that can't be replicated properly, like Arsenal's Highbury redevelopment - do we just ignore some of Arsenal's debt then, because it's too complicated to put in-game? No, the data should be made correct, and SI should figure out how to justify the data. Not the other way round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 nothing wrong with RAWK Well I'm an Everton fan so had a look after the derby to have a bit of a laugh, I was flabergasted at some of the things fans wrote! In that topic I posted there are actual people who believe Liverpool's best 11 is the 2nd best in the league. Unbelieveable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavericktangoII Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yes, he is getting Utd confused with Liverpool who are the most ridiculously delusional fans ever. Read this for a laugh: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264956.0 I bet the Leeds fans had a similar thread the year they went down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robioto Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I bet the Leeds fans had a similar thread the year they went down Lol, yeah. I will stop now as I my hate for Liverpool will shine through and I will start to pee people off big time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithyboyz Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Ha Ha united alll the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.