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dumb ass man or clever ass man?


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its half time and were 2-0 up away aganst Hibs. I decide to let my assistant manager do the team talk and was confused and why my best player gets pleased and all the rest get thrilled. Even Verratti whos on a 5.9. Is this my ass man using reverse physhcology or is he just plain dumb?

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But the best player has been singled out as not being as good as his team mates which is clearly not the case.

No, the best player has been singled out as needing a personal team talk

See it as follows:

Manager: Well done lads, I'm thrilled with that, excellent performance.

Squad: Cheers Gaffer!

Manager: Oh, and Samaras, I'm really pleased with your contribution in particular

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I think "thrilled" is the equivalent of the player talk "delighted". So in my eyes the team should get "pleased" while Samaras gets "delighted".

How did your squad react to the team talk?

No, the player singled out will still hear the 'team' talk. The talk he gets individually is then in addition to that. So Samaras has got higher praise there than the rest of the team.

I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that isn't the case???

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No, the player singled out will still hear the 'team' talk. The talk he gets individually is then in addition to that. So Samaras has got higher praise there than the rest of the team.

I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that isn't the case???

Thats ridiculous, totally ridiculous. The lengths people will go to defend the game is unbelievable.

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Since when has a player that receives individual prasie also received team praise? As on the post match assistant motivation - the half time team talk for Samaras will read pleased where as the other 10 players will read thrilled? As far as I am aware and player cannot receive two types of praise.

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Since when has a player that receives individual prasie also received team praise? As on the post match assistant motivation - the half time team talk for Samaras will read pleased where as the other 10 players will read thrilled? As far as I am aware and player cannot receive two types of praise.

Think about it logically. Does Samaras get sent out of the dressing room whilst the team talk is given? Of course he hears the talk given to the whole team before he gets spoken to individually!

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Think about it logically. Does Samaras get sent out of the dressing room whilst the team talk is given? Of course he hears the talk given to the whole team before he gets spoken to individually!

IRL then obviously yes - but FM is not real life - and as I said in the post match motivation - one player can only have one piece of motivation advise. Otherwise how could the player respond. FM is good but not that good! As in all the interation regarding players - it is on a one level basis.

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Think about it logically. Does Samaras get sent out of the dressing room whilst the team talk is given? Of course he hears the talk given to the whole team before he gets spoken to individually!

Umm mate it's a game? I see no evidence that Samaras would get two team talks and not sure why you're so convinced otherwise?

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IRL then obviously yes - but FM is not real life - and as I said in the post match motivation - one player can only have one piece of motivation advise. Otherwise how could the player respond. FM is good but not that good! As in all the interation regarding players - it is on a one level basis.

Correct - and FM simulates this by making individual praise on a much higher level than team praise. Hence, Samaras goes back out knowing that his manager has praised him on a higher level than the rest of the team, just as he would irl.

Team and individual talks DO NOT compete with each other - FACT!

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Correct - and FM simulates this by making individual praise on a much higher level than team praise. Hence, Samaras goes back out knowing that his manager has praised him on a higher level than the rest of the team, just as he would irl.

Team and individual talks DO NOT compete with each other - FACT!

So whats the figures of an idividual talk to a teamtalk? Individual is 0.7 and team is 0.3? You are saying fact but where is the evidence. If there is something that backs up what you said then great - as I would have misunderstood part of the motivation talks - but untill then I think its one or the other not more of one and then a bit of another.

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I am not saying that an individual talk is not more powerfull than a team talk to a given player - but who says that when you praise an individual tet player also gets the team talk aswell - as accoring to the drop down menu and the post match assistant motivation comments - that each player can have one piece of advise at pre, half and postmatch.

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So whats the figures of an idividual talk to a teamtalk? Individual is 0.7 and team is 0.3? You are saying fact but where is the evidence. If there is something that backs up what you said then great - as I would have misunderstood part of the motivation talks - but untill then I think its one or the other not more of one and then a bit of another.

I couldn't tell you. Ask SI.

All I'm saying is that it is definitely the case that individual talks are more powerful than team ones. Don't know the proportions of it though.

The reason for this is that it simulates the player getting both talks in the best way possible. So Team + Individual > Team

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He does have a point though. Until it’s confirmed, it seems logical enough.

Not at all, the "team" team talk is just a way of quickly doing it to the majority of players and somehow hes convinced himself that pleased is better than delighted when even SI dont think that because they are listed in order as "angry, poor,...,pleased, delighted"

Next he will be saying angry is better than poor.

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You've missed the point Philly. ism-scfc is saying that singular praise is always higher than team praise, and likewise for criticism. It makes sense.

In terms of impact:

Delighted (Individual) > Pleased (Individual) > Thrilled (Team) > Pleased (Team) Praise

Angry (Individual) > Disappointed (Individual) > Angry (Team) > Disappointed (Team) Criticism

Individual > Team

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You've missed the point Philly. ism-scfc is saying that singular praise is always higher than team praise, and likewise for criticism. It makes sense.

In terms of impact:

Delighted (Individual) > Pleased (Individual) > Thrilled (Team) > Pleased (Team) Praise

Angry (Individual) > Disappointed (Individual) > Angry (Team) > Disappointed (Team) Criticism

Individual > Team

That's never occured to me but it does make sense.

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You've missed the point Philly. ism-scfc is saying that singular praise is always higher than team praise, and likewise for criticism. It makes sense.

In terms of impact:

Delighted (Individual) > Pleased (Individual) > Thrilled (Team) > Pleased (Team) Praise

Angry (Individual) > Disappointed (Individual) > Angry (Team) > Disappointed (Team) Criticism

Individual > Team

It doesnt make sense. The "team" option is just to set to the majority of players, thats all.

If what he was saying us true, then if you are 5-0 against Man U, setting individuals to pleased means you are happier than setting everyone as a team to thrilled.

Imagine this, "everyone, youve played fantastic, Im delighted with you all. Top class performance Except you son, Im contented with your performance."

You really think the singled out player is getting higher praise?

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Wrong - Team is the talk you give to the whole dressing room. Individual is when you talk to a player on his own. Team (Pleased) is not as effective as Pleased.

If you give an individual talk to every player, then no team talk has taken place, so you can't compare it to when it has!

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It doesnt make sense. The "team" option is just to set to the majority of players, thats all.

If what he was saying us true, then if you are 5-0 against Man U, setting individuals to pleased means you are happier than setting everyone as a team to thrilled.

Imagine this, "everyone, youve played fantastic, Im delighted with you all. Top class performance Except you son, Im contented with your performance."

You really think the singled out player is getting higher praise?

I don't know if this is for sure how the game works, but it makes sense to me. If you single out a player for praise you are elevating him above everybody else - "Thrilled" (Team) is with regard to the team performance, so if you wanted to point out that somebody was below the level of the team you would surely give them an individual talk of "Disappointed" or "Angry". Saying "Pleased" is still praise and i don't think the player is going to respond to it as criticism and up his performance in the future, which is how your scenario interprets it. He is likely to still respond to it as praise. And as i say, individual praise should be more meaningful or powerful than general team praise.

Edit: Well would you believe it? I loaded up one of my saves (NB. where i am managing a fictional Spanish team of promising youngsters) to play a game out and test this. My next game was a tough (NB. fictional) cup match against Greek side Ionikos. The first half played out with us taking a 2-0 lead; our attacking midfielder scoring a penalty and our striker Amor scoring the other. This was almost perfect as it closely replicated the OP's situation - except Amor had a 7.7 rating and not an 8.7, but he was still notable as the only one with a high rating. I hit 'Ask Assistant' and to my surprise it threw up the same team talk as the OP. Amor had 'Pleased' (individual) and the rest had 'Team (Thrilled)'. I should note that my assistant and other staff have perfect stats as this go is a purely fictional save that i did for fun, so his advice should be virtually perfect - which would answer the 'dumb ass man or clever' question. The game ended 3-0 with Amor getting a second. I didn't notice much variation in the motivation from the first half; it remained good.

The reason for such a team talk is debatable and open to interpretation, but we can safely say it is sound advice from the assistant (the original point of the thread). After the match i keenly checked my assistant managers feedback, only to see a mixture of 'Nothing specific noted' and 'Didn't seem to be listening' from all the players; Amor coming in the former category. I'm not sure my players have too much respect for me at this stage of this save, which may be a problem when assessing the impact of my team talks.

But my interpretation remains in this scenario that i am saying: i'm thrilled that we are 2-0 up at half-time in a tough cup match and i'm also pleased with the individual performance of our striker (who has a rating notably higher than anybody else). It seems most logical.

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Please give some evidence or linkage please ism. As we seem to be going round in circles!!! lol

I'd love to, but I don't have any!

What I'm saying is just a mixture of common sense and what SI said when the feature was first introduced (FM07?), but hardly any blogs or anything exist from that far back.

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Wrong - Team is the talk you give to the whole dressing room. Individual is when you talk to a player on his own. Team (Pleased) is not as effective as Pleased.

If you give an individual talk to every player, then no team talk has taken place, so you can't compare it to when it has!

That makes even less sense than what you said before, if a team is winning 3-0 but one player has a 4.6 rating, youd give a delighted for the team and angry for the player with a low rating, so you think your praise and then criticise him, it makes no sense.

The "team" team talk is just a way of saving having to click on everyone, nothing more.

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That makes even less sense than what you said before, if a team is winning 3-0 but one player has a 4.6 rating, youd give a delighted for the team and angry for the player with a low rating, so you think your praise and then criticise him, it makes no sense.
No, that problem's solved by giving the individual talks higher weighting. He won't think you're pleased with him then angry; he'll think you're pleased with the team in general, but that he is a notable exception and has played poorly.

Now I don't know if it's correct what's being said about the 'team' talk also applying to those given individual settings, but it seems logical enough that they should. As someone else said, players aren't thrown out of the dressing room if they get an individual talk, they'll still hear what you say to the team - and thus it makes sense that they should get some effect from it. IMO, it also makes sense that they should be more affected by a "good game so far, Phil, keep it up" comment aimed specifically at them than they would by "great first half, lads" aimed at everyone.

I don't know if it's necessarily the case, but it's not the completely illogical and ridiculous scenario your posts paint it as.

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That makes even less sense than what you said before, if a team is winning 3-0 but one player has a 4.6 rating, youd give a delighted for the team and angry for the player with a low rating, so you think your praise and then criticise him, it makes no sense.

The "team" team talk is just a way of saving having to click on everyone, nothing more.

You are stating something that is 100% WRONG as fact. I'm not sure what you want me to say?

Firstly, any player having 4.6 when his team are winning 3-0 at HT is extremely unlikely! Secondly, he'd just think you were delighted with the overall team performance, but angry with his personal performance. I'm not sure how you take it into something that it isn't?

In the scenario you give, what team talk would you suggest to say to your team that you were delighted but single out one particular player for criticism? Criticise the whole team? Ignore the player's poor performance? Or what?

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No, that problem's solved by giving the individual talks higher weighting. He won't think you're pleased with him then angry; he'll think you're pleased with the team in general, but that he is a notable exception and has played poorly.

Now I don't know if it's correct what's being said about the 'team' talk also applying to those given individual settings, but it seems logical enough that they should. As someone else said, players aren't thrown out of the dressing room if they get an individual talk, they'll still hear what you say to the team - and thus it makes sense that they should get some effect from it. IMO, it also makes sense that they should be more affected by a "good game so far, Phil, keep it up" comment aimed specifically at them than they would by "great first half, lads" aimed at everyone.

I don't know if it's necessarily the case, but it's not the completely illogical and ridiculous scenario your posts paint it as.

It is when you tell 10 players youre delighted with them and the 11th is doing ok, somehow the 11th player is getting the highest praise?

Its nothing more than speeding up the team talks so you dont have to click on every player individually.

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It has nothing to do with thinking about it logically - or what happens in real life - this is a game...

Consider the scenario where the team is praised but an individual is criticised? It seems far more logical that a player can only recieve one type of praise in the game...the more likely scenario here is the first one postulated...the others respond better to praise whilst the individual player gets complacent - as this better fits the way the game model works (so in effect it appears you have a clever ass man)...I have seen this many times on my games - one is criticised - team is praised...however I do have an idiot for an ass man who keeps telling me to play long ball...

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ism-scfc, then how would you explain the option to give no feedback individually? You can give team feedback and choose to give no feedback to individuals.

I think you just need to accept the fact that your way of understanding the feedback is completely wrong lol

Just because something is perfectly logical, it doesn't mean that is the way it works in FM. FM is not a perfect representation of reality. It is a various set of numbers and codes put together to imitate reality as much as possible.

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It is when you tell 10 players youre delighted with them and the 11th is doing ok, somehow the 11th player is getting the highest praise?
You just don't want to listen do you? That's not happening. What people are saying might not be happening either (I honestly don't know), but seriously, try reading properly. The point people are making is that a 'team' talk applies to the team in general, and individual ones are comments on the performance of that particular player.

So you're not telling 10 players you're delighted with them and the 11th that he's done OK. You're telling the whole team that you're delighted with the team performance, as a whole, and singling out one guy to tell him that he in particular - individually - is having a good game.

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I will keep comming back to this. After a game the asistant can give post match motivational feedback - and in that is the players reaction pre, HT, and FT - and in each of them they get one motivational advice not two!!! So what ever you assign to that player in the drop down box - that is his team talk. So you can't have it both ways IMO.

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You just don't want to listen do you? That's not happening. What people are saying might not be happening either (I honestly don't know), but seriously, try reading properly. The point people are making is that a 'team' talk applies to the team in general, and individual ones are comments on the performance of that particular player.

So you're not telling 10 players you're delighted with them and the 11th that he's done OK. You're telling the whole team that you're delighted with the team performance, as a whole, and singling out one guy to tell him that he in particular - individually - is having a good game.

Which is ridiculous. If that was the case, there wouldnt be an option for negative individual talk with a positive team talk and vice versa.

Hey everyone, youre all playing fantastic, in particular Bob, your having a terrible game. yeah that makes sense.

Its nothing more than a time saver.

what youre saying is everyone is playing fantastic but that one player is doing pretty well. Its no different than clicking on the other 10 players with delighted.

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It has nothing to do with thinking about it logically - or what happens in real life - this is a game...

Consider the scenario where the team is praised but an individual is criticised? It seems far more logical that a player can only recieve one type of praise in the game...the more likely scenario here is the first one postulated...the others respond better to praise whilst the individual player gets complacent - as this better fits the way the game model works (so in effect it appears you have a clever ass man)...I have seen this many times on my games - one is criticised - team is praised...however I do have an idiot for an ass man who keeps telling me to play long ball...

Not at all. It's clear after doing my own little test that the individual player is singled out because of his higher rating. It could be that the 8.7 player is singled out with a 'lower' amount of praise so that he doesn't get complacent, but why would the others not get complacent when they've been average - or poor, in one players case - and are being told that you are thrilled with them (or 'delighted', if the team and individual talks are equal as some are saying)?

Telling players that you are 'Team (Thrilled)' is surely different from saying that you are 'Delighted', as why would you tell someone that was on a 5.9 or 6.9 that you were delighted with them? There could be occasions where you would make an exception for a certain player, but this is consistent. Again i say it is more likely that the lavished praise is in light of the first half team performance and not the individual performances, which were in general average, whereas the star individual performer has received individual praise for his performance.

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Unless you can prove that, youre wrong.

Oh really! And the proof for your illogical way of thinking is...

ism-scfc, then how would you explain the option to give no feedback individually? You can give team feedback and choose to give no feedback to individuals.

Your point being? Of course you can! In which case you just speak to the team, without singling out any other individuals for praise. I'm not quite sure where your problem lies.

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Which is ridiculous. If that was the case, there wouldnt be an option for negative individual talk with a positive team talk and vice versa.

Hey everyone, youre all playing fantastic, in particular Bob, your having a terrible game. yeah that makes sense.

What the hell are you talking about? In the system people are talking about, giving the team 'Delighted' and Bob (individual) 'disappointed/angry' doesn't mean "Hey everyone, youre all playing fantastic, in particular Bob, your having a terrible game."; it means "good job guys, great first half. Except you, Bob, you've not been up to scratch so far".

There is an option for negative individual talk with a positive team talk and vice versa, because as on the game, as in real life, individual players can do well or badly when the team as a whole has done the opposite - and in real life, a manager can comment on both of those things (the good team performance, and the poor individual performance - or vice versa). And all that people are saying is that the game allows that too. I don't know whether the game really does do that, but it's a perfectly simple concept and I've no idea why you're either unable or unwilling to understand it (even if you don't agree).

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I will keep comming back to this. After a game the asistant can give post match motivational feedback - and in that is the players reaction pre, HT, and FT - and in each of them they get one motivational advice not two!!! So what ever you assign to that player in the drop down box - that is his team talk. So you can't have it both ways IMO.

Anybody!!!

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