This inconsistency takes the biscuit.

I'm experiencing many annoyances within my current FM game as Atletico Madrid but this just infuriated me beyond belief. Two matches at home against the same team, four days apart, implementing the same tactics and formation.

First game, a Spanish Cup Semi-Final First Leg:

We're dominating as you can see and I'm thinking that I've actually finally solved my 'Too Many Long Shots' issue.

Second game, a league match:

Betis used the same formation but just swapped around a couple of players - Sergio Garcia played left wing second game (I really hope that was not what contributed to the starkly contrasting results).

How am I supposed to work out if my tactics are working if there isn't any consistency upon which to formulate a reliable notion? At aged 25 I find myself getting more angry and frustrated with this game than I ever have in the 15 odd years I've been playing Champ/FM; surely that isn't how its supposed to be!?

there is consistency in the formula. it just uses far more parameters than you think.

player morale, fitness,tactics (not just formation), team talk, motivation, luck and more.

this affects yoru team and the AI team.

There's always an element of randomness to football matches, and 2 matches doesn't give a representative sample of consistency.

If you the exact same tactic for a long time, the AI will figure out the weakness in it. Switching players around can stop this a little bit

I doubt that the AI would play against you the same after losing to you 7-0 lol. If you were betis, I'm sure you wouldn't either.

Also, just because they used the same formation does not mean they played with the same strategy/mentality.

Then there are other factors like consistency etc....all in all you can't expect your players to be at top form everyday.

Maybe the AI manager chose the wrong prematch teamtalk in the first game

Leicester probably thought the same thing after beating Pompey 2-1 on Tuesday only to lose 6-1 tonight!

the old 'my tactics were exactly the same so the AI's must have been too' argument

If you the exact same tactic for a long time, the AI will figure out the weakness in it. Switching players around can stop this a little bit

AI can NOT figure your tactic.

yes they can mate, was introduced in 09

yes they can mate, was introduced in 09

Mods and SI have said on numerous occassions that tactics do not get 'cracked'.

All that happens is your 'threat' as a team gets re-evaluated at points in the season and when this happens opposition teams react differntly to you. So, you may have been on a great run and then suddenly bam! you start losing games. This is simply down to the opposition teams be alittle more cautious against you and you not recognising it.

from AI Cracks Tactic

Edit : More

Don't see the problem here, second game the oppo had something to prove and your players were complacent, possibly aided by a bad teamtalk perhaps?

What post there is from SI?

I'm experiencing many annoyances within my current FM game as Atletico Madrid but this just infuriated me beyond belief. Two matches at home against the same team, four days apart, implementing the same tactics and formation.

First game, a Spanish Cup Semi-Final First Leg:

We're dominating as you can see and I'm thinking that I've actually finally solved my 'Too Many Long Shots' issue.

Second game, a league match:

Betis used the same formation but just swapped around a couple of players - Sergio Garcia played left wing second game (I really hope that was not what contributed to the starkly contrasting results).

How am I supposed to work out if my tactics are working if there isn't any consistency upon which to formulate a reliable notion? At aged 25 I find myself getting more angry and frustrated with this game than I ever have in the 15 odd years I've been playing Champ/FM; surely that isn't how its supposed to be!?

it happens tell us about your league form then we can tell if there a problem but over 2 games against the same team we can't tell if theres a problem.the cup match score was problery a 1 off where betis had an off day.

What post there is from SI?

Would be hard to find out

no i mean, you have stated that they said it and then posted a link to a thread and quoted that thread and it doesnt have a single post from SI, so im curious as, im probably wrong, but a few years ago they said an ai upgrade was that they learnt tactics

Found it

HERE

And THIS is not related but first post does explain how tactics go haywire.

hmmm, i dont see your point there.

That thread is about the game deciding the outcom before the match starts, not about them learning from your tactics?

im not trying to be objective, just curious

hmmm, i dont see your point there.

That thread is about the game deciding the outcom before the match starts, not about them learning from your tactics?

im not trying to be objective, just curious

I can't find a SI post but there are a lot of posts by users saying that. Example

i know there are users saying it, but id like to know if this exists cause your saying its very well documented but cant find anything to support it, im curious if what your saying is from SI or if your saying it cause other users have.

That thread is for FM09 too, im more interested in 10

i know there are users saying it, but id like to know if this exists cause your saying its very well documented but cant find anything to support it, im curious if what your saying is from SI or if your saying it cause other users have.

That thread is for FM09 too, im more interested in 10

You said its around since 09

I think we'll have to wait till someone from SI comes to this thread.

i know but asi said, i may be wrong, even it was in 09 it may have been removed, be interesting to see if its in 10

I doubt that the AI would play against you the same after losing to you 7-0 lol. If you were betis, I'm sure you wouldn't either.

Also, just because they used the same formation does not mean they played with the same strategy/mentality.

Then there are other factors like consistency etc....all in all you can't expect your players to be at top form everyday.

good point in reallife last season celtic beat stmirren by 7 then a few days latter stmirren beat celtic 4-1

Recent post but no SI post HERE

wwfan confirms that AI doesn't crack HERE < - - Good thread except for the arguments.

PaulC confirming for FM08 HERE

Dafuge is known to play the same tactic.

It happened to me the same (draw in EPL, then large win, 7-0 as well, in FA cup) and like you, I was very surprised plus angry as I was trying to achieve a record that season in EPL lol. The only difference is that I did the draw before the league cup game. Thus the 2 following comments saying AI would adapt their tactics are irrelevant I am afraid. And I personally didn't change anything as I knew I was far stronger than the opposite. Plus I was holidaying at that time with fixed formation and line ups (but surely it wouldn't have changed anything anyway).

If you the exact same tactic for a long time, the AI will figure out the weakness in it. Switching players around can stop this a little bit

I doubt that the AI would play against you the same after losing to you 7-0 lol. If you were betis, I'm sure you wouldn't either.

Also, just because they used the same formation does not mean they played with the same strategy/mentality.

Then there are other factors like consistency etc....all in all you can't expect your players to be at top form everyday.

Found it

HERE

And THIS is not related but first post does explain how tactics go haywire.

I agree randomness has a role in the game like other criteria (consistency as said in quote above), however from a 7-0 win to a draw, there s a too large gap that I can't put on those factors. And the fact that both draws (mine and OP's) happen in the domestic league looks for me everything but a coincidence. However, I am sure there is some logic there but still a mystery.

i know there are users saying it, but id like to know if this exists cause your saying its very well documented but cant find anything to support it, im curious if what your saying is from SI or if your saying it cause other users have.

That thread is for FM09 too, im more interested in 10

I will not go into research but I ve also read SI saying that AI do not crack any human tactic. IMO they could have said that for politic reasons. But I believe them, and think that AI adapt their tactics only regarding the current score and not the opposition. Surely they will adapt opposite instructions according to the opposition though but who does not.

i know but asi said, i may be wrong, even it was in 09 it may have been removed, be interesting to see if its in 10

I don't think SI will recall every feature added since the start of FM every year. Plus SI usually advise about features removed (as a new feature in their list) now don't they ?

I have the exact same problem as Hoffenheim. I had a game yesterday against a vastly inferior Hannover - 27 shots 0 goals for me, and for them 4 shots 1 goal. The exact same thing happened in the next game against Werder where I had 20+ shots and couldn't convert any of them into goals, luckily it ended up being a 0 - 0.

Leicester probably thought the same thing after beating Pompey 2-1 on Tuesday only to lose 6-1 tonight!

¬¬ We're not talking about that.

¬¬ We're not talking about that.

The OP was.

Could be a million things, are you (OP) really suggesting the results should be the same if both sides picked the same team/ tactics?!

Maybe you play counter attacking and score an early goal so they over-committed, maybe they fluked two in off a players backside. Maybe they didn't eat their weetabix the second time.

As the sensible people in this thread are saying, there a so many possible reason why those results happened, with no need to detail the possible variables (weather, form, fatigue, important matches, effects of big lead, tactical dispositions of opponents, etc.). Complaining about it is absolutely useless. You're not supposed to work out your tactics based on results, but based on what happens on the field. Have a look through the match and evaluate what went wrong, if anything, and try to adjust. Maybe you won't get it right and maybe you'll be unlucky and not succeed, but that doesn't remove that awesome challenge of trying. At least you have that amazing 7-0 win to warm you.

Beating a good team 7-0 sounds boring - you should be happy to get some resistance. Truth be told, I'm quite sick of seeing people on these forums expecting to dominate everything as it removes the joy of the little victories and it makes the AI less significant (simply there to passively observe the player succeed instead of coming to life and carrying some meaning of their own). These days, I mostly visit to read the career updates (and stories, the few decent ones produced), and by far the best stuff is when people don't just follow some success formula and win everything, but instead care about their players, the opponents and those little events and details that have no real bearing if you are winning the league with a 20-point margin. If they have great success, they don't expect it, but rather accept that they are just there in hopes that they can influence the way things play out, and otherwise just enjoy the action.

¬¬ We're not talking about that.

:confused:

The OP was.

Thankyou. That's why I wrote it!

I think he's a Leicester fan, and meant it as a joke.

I think he's a Leicester fan, and meant it as a joke.

Gotcha. Is that what ¬¬ means then? Joke?

well vinsanity in my experience, I have seen teams play differently against me when playing them multiple times in a short period of time. But like I said before, there are a lot of other things that factor into match day performance.

Gotcha. Is that what ¬¬ means then? Joke?

*I* got what he probably meant without worrying about the meaning of the symbols.

But then, I generally assume a meaning that is either positive or less than serious if the alternative is something that doesn't make sense. Gets me in trouble here, now and then.

*I* got what he probably meant without worrying about the meaning of the symbols.

But then, I generally assume a meaning that is either positive or less than serious if the alternative is something that doesn't make sense. Gets me in trouble here, now and then.

I should've got it too without the meaning of the symbols :embarrassed:...but then again this is GD and quarrels and arguments do materialise out of thin air!

I should've got it too without the meaning of the symbols :embarrassed:...but then again this is GD and quarrels and arguments do materialise out of thin air!

Much like that opposition striker bearing down on your goal now and then?

Edit: Would SOMEONE import a decent set of smileys????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

well vinsanity in my experience, I have seen teams play differently against me when playing them multiple times in a short period of time. But like I said before, there are a lot of other things that factor into match day performance.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree that AI sometimes change some things between two following games against a same team. But what I ve seen mainly was a change of formation ie I guessed they were replacing injured players, resting tired ones, maybe dealing with morale issues, and were still lining up good players (I was a top EPL team so was very common to face top EPL teams several times in a year and often twice in a row and those teams have a great depth in their squad).

But OP's and my issue here is that we checked at formation and saw no change at all. So maybe AI changed something not visible (tactics, opposite instructions, teamtalks), but why would have they in my case, as I did the draw before and then I won ? Did they try to win the second game (despite odds were like 1 against 7 I guess) by changing their teamtalks and actually it became a nightmare for them ? I don't think it would happen.

I think there is something rational there, but different than that. I would say first players react far differently if the game is a cup or a league game, depending on the team status (strong teams will compete more for league games vs lower/mid teams will try to do a result in a cup maybe - edit : well wait, that would sound logical to me, but the opposite happened here, lower teams competed better in league games :o), and of course on squad bonus. In my case I put high to all of them, but maybe in the case here AI teams put high in cup games (edit : in league games actually). But again is that enough to explain such a difference in game scores ? Would players have rested themselves after or before doing a good result ^? Obviously no, so still a mistery for me...

Its just the randomness of football. There's no explanation of it. One game you might go 1-0 up in the first 5 minutes with a 35 yard strike. But if the wind had been blowing 1mph in the other direction it would have gone wide. There's no science to football results, and this is reflected in game.

I suppose the Op will not be willing to comment on the times when he lost the first game badly and won subsequently against the same opposition 2 weeks later. It happened to me last night in the CL best place quals. I lost away to Arsenal (with Fiorentina, playing with a friend) 3-0 and won the 2nd leg 4-0 (aet) to go through. The only change I made were to play Vargas at DL and Arsenal were unchanged.

there a so many possible reason why those results happened, with no need to detail the possible variables (weather, form, fatigue, important matches, effects of big lead, tactical dispositions of opponents, etc.)

Whilst I'm personally of the opinion that it will have been a cumulation of factors that led to the 2 different results the weather would be an interesting one to check. I'd imagine playing in Spain that the weather your tactics have developed around is mostly sunny and dry? Therefore if for the 2nd game it was hammering down and the AI adjusted and you didn't I could see why the scores would be so vastly different.

I suppose the Op will not be willing to comment on the times when he lost the first game badly and won subsequently against the same opposition 2 weeks later. It happened to me last night in the CL best place quals. I lost away to Arsenal (with Fiorentina, playing with a friend) 3-0 and won the 2nd leg 4-0 (aet) to go through. The only change I made were to play Vargas at DL and Arsenal were unchanged.

The other "little" difference is that one game was played at home and the other was played away. Plus surely odds were not as wide as 7/1

Whilst I'm personally of the opinion that it will have been a cumulation of factors that led to the 2 different results the weather would be an interesting one to check. I'd imagine playing in Spain that the weather your tactics have developed around is mostly sunny and dry? Therefore if for the 2nd game it was hammering down and the AI adjusted and you didn't I could see why the scores would be so vastly different.

Irrelevant. The weather affects both team, and it affects them equally if they are from the same country

Irrelevant. The weather affects both team, and it affects them equally if they are from the same country

What do you mean irrelevant? If the OP's tactics are based on short quick passing and he didn't adjust for a torrential downpour but the AI did and went more direct it couldn't be more relevant to the outcome of the match.

The other "little" difference is that one game was played at home and the other was played away. Plus surely odds were not as wide as 7/1

Irrelevant. The weather affects both team, and it affects them equally if they are from the same country

I agree with you. There's no point in teams playing each other twice in a season, just take 1 result and double it up, which is what would happen if the teams wasted time playing each other.

What do you mean irrelevant? If the OP's tactics are based on short quick passing and he didn't adjust for a torrential downpour but the AI did and went more direct it couldn't be more relevant to the outcome of the match.

Well if this was the case such weird results would happen much more often. I don't trust this theory IMO.

I agree with you. There's no point in teams playing each other twice in a season, just take 1 result and double it up, which is what would happen if the teams wasted time playing each other.

I am not sure to fully understand your point, but it has anyway nothing close related to what I am saying. So I don't know who you are agreeing with here.

I am not sure to fully understand your point, but it has anyway nothing close related to what I am saying. So I don't know who you are agreeing with here.

Its called 'sarcasm'.

The whole story OP is talking about is pretty realistic IMO.

He won 7-0 in the first game and felt over confident that the second game would turn out the same, only to be proven wrong.

Just because you drew or lost one or two games it does not mean you have a completely useless tactic. There is no one tactic that gives you 100% wins.

And just because you win 7-0 in a game it doesn't mean you somehow perfected your tactic.

The AI changes their tactics all the time to try and cater for the situation. Maybe it's about time for you to do the same in mid game situations, instead of being lazy and doing nothing tactically during the match.

There is no one tactic that gives you 100% wins.

cough Mr Hough cough

Its called 'sarcasm'.

At least I understood that and still I don't know what you were agreeing anything with me as I was saying nothing close to what you say in your post, so don't make people look to say what they haven't and try to use sarcasm better