FM2011: Newgens and the new "National trait templates"?

I'm actually quite excited by this feature - it sounds like SI have added a really realistic and interesting feature to the game.

Just to speculate, can we expect a list of these sort of templates, or at least some guidelines as to what these templates may resemble?

Also, I'm curious as to what you may think some of these templates will be, for example:

Country: Brazil

National traits: Flair and technique.

Any others?

Country: England

National traits: Weak goalkeeping and crumble under pressure

I am not a fan of these templates. Look at the Dutch- ordinary nation, developed a reputation for well rounded, versatile footballers, now have a small number of talented players who are allowed to play to their best by workhorses like Ooijer, Kuyt and Van Bommel. Brazil haven't always produced flair players. The side in the early 90s was very similar to the Dutch side that just came 2nd in the WC because they simply didn't have any flair players for a generation. We have no way of telling how sides will progress in the future. Maybe England will go back to using three creative players who tear sides apart and having plenty of players with technique and flair.

Country: England

National traits: Weak goalkeeping and crumble under pressure

made me laugh fair play,

Italy and Germany:

Diving and cheating lol

From what I've read the newgen templates and national traits are two different things. The templates will (hopefully) ensure that player are created with a sensible set of attributes. In FM10 you tend to see a lot of players with really low jumping and a lot of them are central defenders. I think the templates will look to stop this type of thing from happening, they will presumably be used for all newgens, national traits won't. So you could still end up with and England side who don't bottle penalty shoot-outs, for example. Like SCIAG, I would hope the national traits aren't too powerful for the reasons he pointed out.

Yeah, same as Sciag and Neji, I am waiting to see on this :/.

To the OP, French will be cheaters and teenager minded

USA

High determination, terrible decisions

Australia

Low Flair, High Physicality

Germany

Good at winning things

Ultra-functional, ultra-efficient, ultra-reliable

Good at penalties

England

Bottlers

Rubbish at penalties (unless they have second nationalities, preferably German)

Emile Heskey

USA

High determination, terrible decisions

Incredible athleticism, no technical ability. Sigh...

Argentina:

Excellent players, the best of their generation and a total rubbish of a coach to ruin their chances.

Will all Argentinian newgens now wear hairbands?

this is nice, im tired of seeing strikers with 1 composure being considered good or defenders with 5 jumping/positioning

Ghana:

A plethora of superultramegahyperfantastic central midfielders in a squad averaging -25 in Finishing.

Anyway, just how up to date will these "national trait templates" be ? Take the aforementioned Germany for example, their current crop of talents is completely different to that of about a decade ago, not that you could call that past generation talented by any means though.

Youngsters like Mario Goetze, Toni Kroos, Mesut Oezil, Marco Reus, Nico Schulz, etc. are not what you would consider your stereotypical German player, although that is somewhat of a misconception. If you've seen the likes of Guenther Netzer, Wolfgang Overath or Bernd Schuster in their time, you'll know that the current trend of turning on the style is just a return to the roots.

A focus on mental and hidden stats only while keeping technical ones low would therefore be not very realistic. I have no clue about just how thoroughly the FM team has researched the trends however.

Japan:

Low strength

Low creativity

Low to average physical attributes (height etc.)

High discipline

High work rate

High team work

High professionalism

It would be really cool if you can actually influence these national traits if you are the international manager. For example, you replace Capello and suggest to the FA that English youth should focus more on creativity and flair.

It would be really cool if you can actually influence these national traits if you are the international manager. For example, you replace Capello and suggest to the FA that English youth should focus more on creativity and flair.

This. I think the national templates should be a bit more dynamic dependant on how the manager and AI plays the players.

e.g. English players brought through at Arsenal will be more technical compared to ones brought through from Bolton. Purely for the fact that Wenger is in charge compared to Owen Coyle.

This is where your own managerial style on the manager profile screen could finally influence something like template dynanism. If you play balanced you should bring more players through from your home nationality of that style if playing in that nation.

made me laugh fair play,

Italy and Germany:

Diving and cheating lol

You can exclude Germany here, youre just a bad loser.

WHO cheated for Germany at the world cup? tell me please. you wont find anyone, will you?

Do we know how "national traits" are to be implemented at all? Any details on them? I would have thought that it would have been something like PPM's - Italian players dive, English players moan about it. Or perhaps new ones like English players not travelling well, or Brazilian players not liking the English weather too much...

Japan:

Low strength

Low creativity

Low to average physical attributes (height etc.)

High discipline

High work rate

High team work

High professionalism

Then Honda isn't your typical Japanese player. He is just magical!

Who mentioned anything about this World Cup?

Who mentioned anything about this World Cup?

ah i see. if someone dived in 1962, his successors will forever be branded a cheat. i see. very logical.

ah i see. if someone dived in 1962, his successors will forever be branded a cheat. i see. very logical.

It was said tongue-in-cheek. Like a lot of the comments on here.

I fully appreciate how national sterotypes might develop, and they are on the whole to be laughed at for how stupid those sterotypes really are.

And for balance there are plenty comments about English players bottling it on this thread too.

Then Honda isn't your typical Japanese player. He is just magical!

It was said tongue-in-cheek. Like a lot of the comments on here.

I fully appreciate how national sterotypes might develop, and they are on the whole to be laughed at for how stupid those sterotypes really are.

And for balance there are plenty comments about English players bottling it on this thread too.

sure, sorry i got too carried away because im in a bad mood today.

sorry again for exaggerating, mate

sure, sorry i got too carried away because im in a bad mood today.

sorry again for exaggerating, mate

No problem

Uruguay: Superb at illegal goal-line clearances.

You can exclude Germany here, youre just a bad loser.

WHO cheated for Germany at the world cup? tell me please. you wont find anyone, will you?

how am i a bad loser im not even english. Pls you might find i was cheering Germany with the rest of Wales....

made me laugh fair play,

Italy and Germany:

Diving and cheating lol

Germany:

Playing people born in other countries and strikers that can't score at the world cup (KLOSE IM LOOKING AT YOU THAT WAS A WASTE OF 5 QUID IN THE BOOKIES)

Italy:

winding up the french and No strikers who've scored big goals since Italia 90.

Germany:

Playing people born in other countries and strikers that can't score at the world cup (KLOSE IM LOOKING AT YOU THAT WAS A WASTE OF 5 QUID IN THE BOOKIES)

Italy:

winding up the french and No strikers who've scored big goals since Italia 90.

umm...didnt Klose score 4 goals at the last WC? (and 5 in wc 2002 and 5 (topscorer) in wc 2006?)

and...other countries play people born elsewhere as well...thats not a special feature nowadays..

Yeah I thought this would be a good idea with personalities.

Typically British players have a low adaptability - hence can only play one position and never go abroad.

Ireland:

Can pass, won't pass.

A terrible allergy to winning games by more than one goal, and holding onto leads against top teams.

Occasional tendancy to lie about grandmothers' deaths because you're getting a slight ribbing about your bald patch (© Stephen Ireland 2007)

Italy: high aggression, very high dirtiness

What about tendencies to have at least one world-class player in every generation on a certain position?

I mean,the Deutsch never lacked a world-class GK, and I don't know why?

Don't like the sound of this too much. I'm with SCIAG and Neji.

Poland have always had good GKs too

I'm wary as well. I'm generally supportive of the idea of trying to better pattern attributes to position, to lessen the frequency of the "with those attributes, he plays that position?!" with newgens. The "national traits" templates for players do worry me.

1.) Firstly, is this very well-researched and objectively concluded, or just stereotypes of various top league reputations? Are these national traits as apparent in lower leagues as in that nation's highest tier or senior national team? Do players in the Belgian third division have the same unique skill profiles and attribute nuances as Robben, Sneijder, & friends?

I think that there are other factors at work in what makes up a nation's "typical" playstyle or player type. I hope some of these features are considered. More than anything, I think that more care should be taken to assigning the common formations & tactics of various leagues and national teams, and improving the AI to acquire and select players (with skills) to meet those various tactical approaches. I'm not saying that football cultures and differences don't exist, but maybe there's multiple factors that contribute or reinforce this - not just player attribute profiles.

2.) Secondly, how overpowered will this be? It seems like new features are often overpowered when first included in a new FM version. Just really nervous about this. If I were a betting man, I would say it will be overpowered, then scaled back in the very first patch. Be cautious, SI.

Ireland:

Can pass, won't pass.

A terrible allergy to winning games by more than one goal, and holding onto leads against top teams.

Occasional tendancy to lie about grandmothers' deaths because you're getting a slight ribbing about your bald patch (© Stephen Ireland 2007)

:) agreed

As an aside, I'm researching how one can use templates to produce players of similar "style" - so there is no hard-coding of "national style". On a personal basis.

The idea behind it is join trees and figuring out what it means to be a player at a club. For example, Arsenal are largely associated with high passing and technique, so Arsenal youngsters should have a slight bias towards these attributes. If, in some theoretical world, Big Sam became Arsenal manager (after rejecting offers from Real Madrid and Inter Milan), he would impose his own style on the team and over time the team would gear towards strength and power - although in reality it will take years to "phase out" the Wenger Arsenal style.

Join trees are used because some attributes are clearly dependent on others - you will probably not find a player with 20 Acceleration and 1 Pace, or 1 Agility and 20 Balance, for example. With join trees, we simply sample an attribute from identified roots (i.e. attributes not dependent on any other attributes), condition the children (which changes the distribution of attributes affected by these roots), and recurse down.

Constructing the join tree requires data and arc removals. If we can identify what it means to be an "Arsenal player", then we can run the join tree algorithm across these players and produce a "profile" of an Arsenal player in the form of a join tree. Attributes are them sampled from this and rescaled to fit CA. This produces less-generic players and players closer to a style according to the players at your club.

Identifying what it means is a bit more difficult and I'm still thinking how to do this - I'm guessing it will be along the lines of players who are ever-present for the club over some time-frame, and how similar they are to the rest of the squad.

Incredible athleticism, no technical ability. Sigh...

I don't know, most of our good athletes play real sports so I'd say average athleticism. Awesome keeping though!

Country: Anyone who isn't English

Traits: Dives

Engish players do dive.

Germany:

Playing people born in other countries and strikers that can't score at the world cup (KLOSE IM LOOKING AT YOU THAT WAS A WASTE OF 5 QUID IN THE BOOKIES)

living your entire life in germany=german citizen, you ever heard of the term "immigrants"?

and you should really take a look at kloses stats in the last two world cups.

Italy:

winding up the french and No strikers who've scored big goals since Italia 90.

yeah well, they still managed to win a world cup.

hows your country doing huh?oh right, you dont even qualify...

For the ultimate team, surely you'd have English centre-backs, Brazilian fullbacks, an Italian anchorman, a Spanish midfield playmaker, Dutch wingers, an Argentinian playmaker forward and a German poacher!

Which nationality in goal though? :confused:

For the ultimate team, surely you'd have English centre-backs, Brazilian fullbacks, an Italian anchorman, a Spanish midfield playmaker, Dutch wingers, an Argentinian playmaker forward and a German poacher!

Which nationality in goal though? :confused:

Any but English

True.

Will we see traits in the different nationalities of managers and associations so for example, Germany will pick Brazlian and Polish players to cheat their way to the world cup semi final?

Turkish players:

High aggresion

high bravery

high work rate

high dirtiness

low creativity

low composure

low decisions

Bulgarian players:

Very low professionalism

Low loyalty

Low adaptibility

Low decisions

High ambition

High dirtiness

High aggression

I think British players will have the highest attributes for Team-Work , Work-Rate, Bravery and maybe Natural Fitness.