FM Britian email this morning (15/09/10)

Was a bit shocked to get this email in my inbox this morning.

There's always more than one side to each story and perhaps it might be wise for SI to say something on the matter...or not, maybe?

If FMB are to believed, it does seem a shame that it has ended this way.

I for one have enjoyed reading the Tactical Theorems and Frameworks and when utterly frustrated by FM, have frequently sought help from them.

Here's the email if you didn't get it.

EDIT - You can read SI's response HERE.

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FM-Britain will no longer be producing regular content. Sports Interactive have objected to our content model of charging for annual strategy guides, and have threatened to remove all FM-Britain staff members from the beta testing process if we continued. They also threatened to put us under legal review despite our absolute conviction that nothing that we have done violates copyright law.

The absolute priority of FM-Britain has been to improve the quality of the Football Manager community. We felt it most important that Richard Claydon (wwfan) was able to continue to beta test the game and develop the tactics creator into which he and Oliver Collyer have put so much work. The only solution left open to us by Sports Interactive (SI) was for Richard to resign from making premium content – and without his input we no longer physically have the time or the manpower to continue.

Therefore, we have proposed that Richard continue to test the game as an independent fan of Football Manager, while the rest of the FM-Britain staff will remain separate from SI and from the newly proposed Sports Interactive Affiliate Scheme.

The biggest casualty of all this is that there will be no Tactical Theorems and Frameworks 11 as originally planned.

The site, however, would like to clear up some myths and misunderstandings that our activities over the past twelve months have and are likely to generate.

*The Business Model*

First, we will explain our business model. In the 2008/2009 Football Manager (FM) season, FM-Britain (FMB) produced one piece of content: Tactical Theorems and Frameworks 2009 (TT&F09). For the rest of the year, we wrote and produced nothing. The only reason we were able to continue was down to the business model we put in place for the twelve months running from October 2009.

This should be stated again, to be clear. The site would literally have gone off line, and all of our content would have been inaccessible without this business plan. That is not an exaggeration. The site’s domain name came up for renewal, and we seriously considered letting this lapse.

In order to allow us to produce regular, quality content over the lifespan of FM2010, we planned to release Communication and Psychological Warfare (CPW) as a premium guide. This would provide some small financial remuneration at the end of the 2009/2010 FM season, and allow us to build a platform from which we could launch even more content for 2010/2011. The work leading up to CPW was, in effect, “paid for” by its release as a premium guide.

We are no longer teenagers or undergraduate students. As much as we love the game and as much as we have enjoyed putting in our own time for free, there comes a point where schedules become too crowded. Staff members move on and are unable to do what they once did. Under the system we had in place, Jordan Cooper was able to divert some of his business time towards the marketing and administration of FMB’s servers. Richard Claydon was able to continue to work directly with Sports Interactive on match engine feedback. Gareth Millward (Millie) was able to produce regular content for the main site and act as the editor of our content. Matt vom Brocke (The next Diaby) was able to spend small pockets of time working on guides, while we were able to offer compensation to Jon Pearson (JP) and Keith Matthews who run our excellent LLaMa section and administrate the forums. We were also able to enlist the help of Thomas Levin from FM-Pundit in producing content and editing the main site. He has been similarly frustrated with the company’s attitude, apparently excluded from the SIAS without a single word of correspondence from SI or SEGA.

Without the business plan, this was simply not possible. Perhaps this is something that people don’t like to admit, but when you know that your work is building towards a particular goal it is much easier to dedicate time to finishing tasks. This is the basic advantage to a more entrepreneurial model. It fosters a more professional attitude to content production which ensures its quantity and quality.

It is absolutely clear that this could not be an entirely selfish enterprise for many reasons. That is not the community spirit. The community should be about helping people with FM, discussing the game and having open discussions with people. Above all, it should be about having fun.

However, we did not feel that it would be helping the community in any way were we to simply shut down the site. We found a way to help the community without any input from Sports Interactive while at the same time allowing the site’s staff team to continue their work.

FM-Britain has directly helped a number of fan sites through our affiliate sales program. As of 26 August 2010, the community has earned £749.49 in sales commission. This goes a long way to helping sites, large and small, cover their hosting costs. The potential amount to be gained from this form of content production is far in excess of proposals we have seen from Sports Interactive’s bursary scheme. Importantly, it directly rewards the community for the work they put into their sites rather than making them dependent on the grace and favour of the parent company. It is also, historically, a much more appropriate income source than selling copies of the latest FM – because most people who visit fan sites have already purchased the game.

FM-Britain has also given away almost £200 worth of prizes through competitions. That is not copies of our own products. That is copies of Sports Interactive’s games’ series such as Football Manager, Football Manager Live and Football Manager Handheld for the iPhone. We purchased all of these products ourselves. Therefore we not only helped the company sell more copies of its games, we also directly gave a proportion of our income straight back into the community. We have also donated money to charitable causes such as UNICEF, Sheffield Children’s Hospital and Clic Sargent.

Much of the money was re-invested back into our site (for things such as hosting, software, marketing, etc.) or went directly to the authors of the guides and the administrators of the site. This worked not only as compensation for our time but was also an incentive to make sure that we took enough pride in our work to make sure we could justify its costs.

ONE guide a year was designated as premium. This means that per-iteration of Football Manager, the site would, at maximum, ask for around £10-£15 per year. This was designed as a thank-you – so that our members, if they enjoyed what we did, could help support the community, the site and its authors. If you never wanted to pay for a guide, then nobody was forcing you to. If you fundamentally disagreed with the concept of premium guides, nobody was expecting you to change your mind.

The premium model forced us to produce regular and quality content. Without it, we would be cheating you, the community, out of your money. Without it, new members would not join the site and become potential customers. Without it, people would not discover us via Google, see us as trustworthy and part with their cash. Our entire operation had to be concerned with promoting Football Manager, promoting the community and producing the highest possible quality of content that we could.

This is why the FMB- Twitter and Facebook feeds have been so committed to making everyone aware of the fantastic amount of effort and quality work that the entire community creates. So many sites produce some quite extraordinary work that FMB simply doesn’t have the expertise to offer. For example, many sites produce better graphics and downloadables than we do. We will show you precisely where they are and how you can get more. We were, are, and had to be, committed to the entire community and the maintenance of the community. And this is why we set up our affiliate sales links so that everyone could benefit in the premium content we were producing.

*Why we are stopping*

One thing should be made abundantly clear. We are not stopping because we did not sell enough guides. As we have already shown, we have paid out over £900 worth to the community through affiliate sales and through competition giveaways. We actually sold more than we expected. We do not wish, for obvious reasons, to give out our full financial statements, but we sold over 1,000 copies of CPW.

Many of these sales were to people who would never visit forums, never comment on posts and never e-mail us. Yet we have, to date, not had a single request for a refund due to the quality of our work. We stand by this. We produce professional quality work, and we have helped many people who are new to the game get to grips with it.

We should also make it absolutely clear that nothing that FM-Britain did was illegal. There were no violations of copyright or of trademarks. We used no screenshots and made very clear that our guides were unofficial. We are adamant that any legal challenge from SI or SEGA would have failed as has happened in similar disputes in the communities of other video games.

There is a more valid moral argument, which was debated rather maturely and fairly by the community – for this we are grateful. Many of the established community argue, as do SI, that everything in the community should be “free”. This, however, is a romantic notion of the community past. It is becoming more and more evident that high-quality writing in the FM community comes in fits and spurts. So far, no site (including our own) has found a way to produce quality content over a long, sustained period of time. The premium model solved this issue and gave the opportunity for people to continue to use our site 100% free of charge if they did not want to buy our guides.

We are stopping because we physically no longer have the manpower to continue this premium model. We are also stopping because it is clear that Sports Interactive will not offer its community the support that it needs to survive in the modern arena. By refusing to sanction a self-financing and mutually beneficial entrepreneurial approach to content production, SI are effectively taking the stance that they would rather have control over a weaker community than allow a stronger, more prosperous community to grow organically.

We were put in an impossible situation. Continue to produce guides and be accused of putting ourselves before the community. Or stop producing guides and be forced to effectively shut down large parts of what we do. We have chosen the latter, despite the fact that we will be sacrificing a good income stream and we believe this will harm the community in the long term.

*The future*

The only way that content in the community can continue to improve in quality and quantity is if we all take a more professional approach. The people who write quality guides, the people who write applications to view and edit data, the people who create graphics and do research for data updates – you all have skills that any business should jump at the chance to utilise.

SI would have you believe that they have given you the privilege of being able to use these skills. This is not the case. They should be privileged that you take so much of your time to make their product better. When you consider how many of SI’s current staff started out in the community, it becomes even more frustrating that they feel like they have a monopoly of expertise on their product. The game has historically always benefited by the resourcefulness and invention of its community. SI, this year, have taken active steps to quash that spirit.

We made an attempt to equalise the terms of this relationship. With absolutely no financial input, SI could have fostered a self-financing community which produced regular, quality content from experts all over the community – all for the purposes of advertising their brand and their product. Both sides could have profited. Most importantly, the content consumers – the community – would benefit most by being able to access an incredible amount of high-quality content. The vast, vast majority of which would have been for free.

Our proposals did not rip off the community – they allowed the community to invest in itself. We feel that at no point did Sports Interactive take us seriously. Our e-mails appear to show that very little, if any of it, was actually read, and even less of that was seriously digested. The initial aversion to any form of charging in the community has blinkered them from seeing the larger picture.

There is nothing inherently wrong with them wanting more control over the community. However, it is not a rational business decision. It is a romantic decision based on the way the community used to be. Many will agree with this stance, and we’re not here to try and change your mind. But look at the past few years of the community and you will see that SI’s “hands-off” approach has actually produced a much more innovative community. The sites which could innovate, have survived. Those who have not been able to properly organise have fallen by the wayside. Now, even the bigger sites are having issues with finance and with finding the time and energy to keep their momentum going. We will watch with interest and see if the SIAS does indeed reinvigorate the community.

FM-Britain will not join the SIAS while SI continues to oppose premium content. We believe it is the best way to ensure the community’s long term survival and to provide even MORE free content available to all. It also ensures the community’s independence from SI, who have clearly shown that they are willing to crush any site which does not adhere to their ideal of respectability. As this decision means that Richard Claydon must stop work on premium content, the site can no longer continue with its business model, and therefore cannot continue to produce regular content.

*A massive thank you to all our readers*

The only reason we were able to succeed this year was due to our readers valuing our work so much so that they were happy to support it. By paying for the small 1% that we offered for sale we were able to justify the work we had put in for the past 12 months. TT10 was downloaded over 60,000 times this year and our past guides have reached a total of nearly 800,000 downloads in over 12 different languages. Every week for the past year we receive e-mails thanking us for committing the time and energy to produce quality content for the benefit of the entire FM playing world. We sincerely and very humbly appreciate it.

Our biggest regret in ceasing production of TT&F ‘11 is letting you, the readers, down. We expected backlash from the general, traditional community, and were it possible for us to continue then SI’s opposition would not have been an issue either. However, we are eternally grateful that our core readership not only gave their blessing but actively supported us so well. Given the stance of SI and given our own personal commitments we are very sorry that we cannot continue in the way that we have managed over the past year.

The site will not be completely dead. We will update from time to time, and we will keep our discussion forums open. Using what is left of the community’s investment in us we will upgrade our forum software and main site. In the future, when our schedules allow, we will be able to return and prove to the community how beneficial our proposals could have been.

With the greatest respect to our readers,

The FM-Britain staff

who's next FMRTE!

EDIT: Based on SI's reply and few other well formulated posts I kind of retract below comments. Was written in the shock of not getting my hands on the new guide for fm 11

I am a bit shocked as well. It's not really how I envisioned that SI was working in it's relationship with the community. The community is not only the official website! But maybe that is what happens when you grow bigger. The Japanese giants surely have something to do with this as well...

That's a lot of words. Can someone summarise?

bothered, they are the only ones who want to charge for content, si do a great job for affiliates that I can see, why should they be able to charge when others never have?

So FM britain are no longer going to charge for guides written by beta-testers who use their inside knowlegde of the game?

Best news of this week.

What a awful lot of waffle. It smacked of people getting too far above themselves. I don't buy the reasoning for the need to charge either.

Sure, SI may have something to answer for but it is up to them to protect their product.

Wont comment too much as i know the SI guys will be quick to shut these threads down but it honestly has me considering ever playing or buying another FM game, has really really shocked me.

EDIT: Too all the people saying they shouldnt be charging etc, get real! Im sure some of you have bought a strategy guide etc for a game? Its the same thing! and to Makollig Jezvahted, no they are not charging anymore as they are no longer creating, what i feel, was the best written 'guide' to a game ever, it taught me alot about FM and was a very useful tool. Id likie some people who have actually read the guide tro post their comments, rather then people saying they shouldnt charge etc for something they have never even seen

What a awful lot of waffle. It smacked of people getting too far above themselves. I don't buy the reasoning for the need to charge either.

Sure, SI may have something to answer for but it is up to them to protect their product.

Protecting their product? How is a user guide putting the product in danger?

Protecting their product? How is a user guide putting the product in danger?

Correction:

a guide written by beta-testers and people associated with the development of the game (ie using inside information) is putting their good name in danger.

well not really, they clearly state the whole way though it that it is of the opinion of themselves and not SI.

I just feel its a very sad situation that an agreement couldnt be reached, its a fantastic document, i really hope SI are going to produce one instead.

Protecting their product? How is a user guide putting the product in danger?

Maybe SI would like the option to produce their own strategy guides in the future? After all, it is their right to do so. Can't actually see where I mentioned it was putting the product in danger, but draw whatever assumptions you wish. At the end of the day, there is little they have done wrong, except maybe stick to their own strategy for developing their community and their affiliates.

Perhaps if you wish for people to only post positive notes about the guide, you should start a new thread? Get real! Charging for something which was, essentially profiteering off of someone else's reputable name was always going to be a devisive issue.

Wont comment too much as i know the SI guys will be quick to shut these threads down but it honestly has me considering ever playing or buying another FM game, has really really shocked me.

EDIT: Too all the people saying they shouldnt be charging etc, get real! Im sure some of you have bought a strategy guide etc for a game? Its the same thing! and to Makollig Jezvahted, no they are not charging anymore as they are no longer creating, what i feel, was the best written 'guide' to a game ever, it taught me alot about FM and was a very useful tool. Id likie some people who have actually read the guide tro post their comments, rather then people saying they shouldnt charge etc for something they have never even seen

SI have said that the community is what it is simply because it is a FREE tool to help FM gamers. They disagree with the idea of charging for content, but I don't think that was the real issue. If you read the response, then FMB did not get in contact with SI to ask about charging for the content. If they had, they may have been told 1) no 2) you cannot remain beta-testers if you are charging 3) lets sit down and negotiate.

The fact that they did not ask the producer of the game, and the company that provides help to them, about charging is the reason for this. And SI are completely right.

If they disagreed with the way funds from the affiliate system were to be allocated, they should have taken it up with SI and Sega, not gone on their own and start charging for content they have developed by gaining FREE access to a product.

Until SI can actually produce a game manual that is even half the quality of what the FMB guys put out they should just shut the f**k up !

Threatening FMB with legal action and the removal from the beta program, even though some of those guys have been instrumental in helping develop some of the new features over the last couple of games just screams pathetic.

You claim that all content should be free - yet you expect us to pay for the game. Why should it be one rule for you and another for anyone willing to put in their spare time to produce quality content. It's not like they were damaging your sales or raking in hundreds of thousands - infact these are probably some of the most loyal FM people out there so all you've achieved with your actions is to alienate those extreme loyal fans who should infact come above all else.

You manual is sh1te and always has been - and the game has become increasingly complicated and infuriating over the last few editions so when SI provided you with no where to turn, FMB did and should be applauded for it. It no longer has that pick-up-and-playability which the originals had and as such has become a victim of its own success. Without these kind of guides being put out you probably stand to lose a proportion of your user base and quickly alienate any new users to the point where they give up and abandon the series.

Well done SI, well done (claps slowly and sarcastically)

Maybe you should read the answer of SI to this childish open letter from FMB.

And what did FMB expect after charging for a fan-guide without alerting SI of their commercial actions???

SI have said that the community is what it is simply because it is a FREE tool to help FM gamers. They disagree with the idea of charging for content, but I don't think that was the real issue. If you read the response, then FMB did not get in contact with SI to ask about charging for the content. If they had, they may have been told 1) no 2) you cannot remain beta-testers if you are charging 3) lets sit down and negotiate.

The fact that they did not ask the producer of the game, and the company that provides help to them, about charging is the reason for this. And SI are completely right.

If they disagreed with the way funds from the affiliate system were to be allocated, they should have taken it up with SI and Sega, not gone on their own and start charging for content they have developed by gaining FREE access to a product.

Quite possibly the most common sense-laden post in the thread. Well put, sir.

Look i understand all of your opinions, and while i dont agree, surely im entiteld to mine? Instead of being told to 'get real and go make another thread'

Im sorry if i offended anyone by giving my opinion, its what this forum is for...used to be anyway

Until SI can actually produce a game manual that is even half the quality of what the FMB guys put out they should just shut the f**k up !

Threatening FMB with legal action and the removal from the beta program, even though some of those guys have been instrumental in helping develop some of the new features over the last couple of games just screams pathetic.

You claim that all content should be free - yet you expect us to pay for the game. Why should it be one rule for you and another for anyone willing to put in their spare time to produce quality content. It's not like they were damaging your sales or raking in hundreds of thousands - infact these are probably some of the most loyal FM people out there so all you've achieved with your actions is to alienate those extreme loyal fans who should infact come above all else.

You manual is sh1te and always has been - and the game has become increasingly complicated and infuriating over the last few editions so when SI provided you with no where to turn, FMB did and should be applauded for it. It no longer has that pick-up-and-playability which the originals had and as such has become a victim of its own success. Without these kind of guides being put out you probably stand to lose a proportion of your user base and quickly alienate any new users to the point where they give up and abandon the series.

Well done SI, well done (claps slowly and sarcastically)

Rubbish. Try and think this through rationally, and read both sides of the argument. SI want all content to be FREE to the user. They have no problem with FMB or anyone else providing help to other gamers, but they should not be able to charge for this on the back of FREE access to SI and Sega's product. The FM manual is never going to be able to tell you what to do, this is a management sim, not an arcade game, and as such, there are many ways to approach. That is why there is an affiliate program to help FM gamers by providing FREE content, and allowing them access to the beta version of the game for their own manuals.

Miles said that SI have no plans for a strategy guide because that is what the community exists for.

Put it this way. Mille and WWFan have an unfair insight that no one else in the community may have by working on the beta - though the email seems to out them as beta testers which may be against NDA. If they are working so closely with SI, and getting that insight and confirmation on such areas, then going on to release that information for money, its morally wrong.

FMB say its covering costs and the money is going to X and Y, but they shouldn't be charging. They don't have to have a website, they could do these guides, as many do, and host them on the forum, or on free hosting sites. Yes, its not the greatest scenario, but it can be done. (see: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/216801-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play)

FMB sending a mass email out like this made me cringe personally.

Rubbish. Try and think this through rationally, and read both sides of the argument. SI want all content to be FREE to the user. They have no problem with FMB or anyone else providing help to other gamers, but they should not be able to charge for this on the back of FREE access to SI and Sega's product. The FM manual is never going to be able to tell you what to do, this is a management sim, not an arcade game, and as such, there are many ways to approach. That is why there is an affiliate program to help FM gamers by providing FREE content, and allowing them access to the beta version of the game for their own manuals.

Miles said that SI have no plans for a strategy guide because that is what the community exists for.

This is infact rubbish! SI have absolutley no right to demand all content be provided for free when it's not them putting out that content. Why should they expect people to develop this stuff for free when they do the exact opposite. FMB is not profitering nor was it ever putting the (*cough*) good name of SI (*cough*) into disrepute - it was clearly just trying to keep the guide writers focused and the hosting costs down by offering a little compensation.

As for the FM manual, it should be the first stop when you have an issue or get stuck, management sim or not! The manual has not evolved in the same way that the game has, which is why you find such a community exists in the first place. If SI aren't prepared to put in the effort, they shouldn't stiffle or dictate to those who are.

This is infact rubbish! SI have absolutley no right to demand all content be provided for free when it's not them putting out that

You really should read the offical SI reaction to this open letter from FMB.

Football Manager is Sports Interactive's IP, so they have every right to overlook and ask people to stop making money of it. Even if FMB had made 1p profit, they would have still made a profit from Sports Interactive's IP without first getting permission and secondly informing them.

Legally, as an unoffical strategy guide they did NOT have to inform SI of their commercial operations.

The big sticking point seems to be the fact that some of the people that write the guides are beta testers.

Effectively, SI seem to have said: 'Fine, keep selling the guides, but if you do, you don't have a beta slot any more'.

Now, I read the first one back in 08 (or was it 09?) and thought it very well written, and obviously took a great deal of time to compile, write and release - it is first class work; but (!) it was only half as effective as it was because some of the writers were beta testers. Without their access, the guide would not have been half as decent.

So, this is what we're down to: FMB have every right to write and publish any strategy guides they like, as long as they don't impinge on copyright, etc. Likewise, SI have every right to choose their own beta testers. SI objected to people profiting from their status as a tester, and asked them to stop.

And that's it.

Personally, I think that the FMB guides were good work, well written, and actually supported the community. I really don't think it did nay harm. But, the moral/ethical stance that SI have taken is entirely legitimate, and FMB can choose to respond to it in whichever way they wish.

You really should read the offical SI reaction to this open letter from FMB.

Which is where?

This is infact rubbish! SI have absolutley no right to demand all content be provided for free when it's not them putting out that content. Why should they expect people to develop this stuff for free when they do the exact opposite. FMB is not profitering nor was it ever putting the (*cough*) good name of SI (*cough*) into disrepute - it was clearly just trying to keep the guide writers focused and the hosting costs down by offering a little compensation.

As for the FM manual, it should be the first stop when you have an issue or get stuck, management sim or not! The manual has not evolved in the same way that the game has, which is why you find such a community exists in the first place. If SI aren't prepared to put in the effort, they shouldn't stiffle or dictate to those who are.

They have the right to demand that any content for which they provide FREE access to the unfinished game is free. That is why they game the beta-tester ultimatum. That is perfectly within their rights, in every sense. Secondly, the affiliates system was recently set up, I understand, and they would get MONETARY ASSISTANCE from SI and Sega to cover the costs of producing free content for their users. The fact is that FMB decided they would rather charge, they should have asked SI, they didn't, they were given an ultimatum, they've walked away. That to me seems like a monumental stuff-up OR they were attempting to profit. I would rather believe the former.

Football Manager is Sports Interactive's IP, so they have every right to overlook and ask people to stop making money of it. Even if FMB had made 1p profit, they would have still made a profit from Sports Interactive's IP without first getting permission and secondly informing them.

This is completely and utterly incorrect. They're not directly profiting from the IP - they don't use any patented items. What they are doing is akin to reviewing a movie in a newspaper - writing ABOUT the IP, not copying it.

If they had used screens, etc, then there would be an IP case to answer, but just discussing, in the abstract, how to win at a game, in no way contravenes the IP.

Which is where?

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/2010/09/13/football-manager-community-open-letter/

scroll down.

Which is where?

Sports Interactive were given right of reply. This is their response.

Gareth recently sent this letter to SI to give us right to reply – the reply below is from Paul & Ov Collyer and Miles Jacobson.

“Our position on the charging for guides, whether official or unofficial is clear – we turn down proposed deals regularly for these kinds of guides, as we believe that it’s a key part of why the community around our games exist. For more than 15 years, members of the community have been providing help, advice and downloads for the rest of the community to enjoy at no cost, including many of the team members who are now at Sports Interactive.

We also provide unrivalled tools and access to people at the studio for the people who work on this content, and help wherever possible.

So, despite the gains we could make financially out of having guides, both official and unofficial, we reject them in favour of this content remaining part of the community, which continues to thrive.

Sports Interactive were not, at any point, contacted by FM-Britain to discuss the change from a fansite charging for a guide. The first anyone at SI knew about it was when the advert for it was put up on the FM-Britain website, and it was shown to Miles by Marc Duffy during the recording of a podcast, with Miles thinking it was a joke at first, and not a funny one at that.

Anyway, we aren’t planning to come back on every point in the open letter, but suffice to say the version of events there is quite different to what we believe them to be. There are, however, a couple of points which we feel we need to clarify.

Firstly, we have not threatened anyone with legal action. In fact, we’ve made it clear that we at Sports Interactive have consulted with no lawyers at all regarding the guides. What we have said is that when FM-Britain decided to charge for it’s guide, they became a business in our eyes, not a fan-site. We also pointed out that any businesses would need to ensure that they are not infringing any trademarks or IP that is owned by either ourselves or SEGA if they decided to go down this route. It was meant as friendly advice.

Secondly, it is stated that we threatened to remove some of FM-Britain’s staff from the beta test if they continued charging for the guides. This is also not true – by being the only one of the previously affiliated websites to not sign up to the SI affiliate scheme (detailed below) – their staff members had already been removed from the beta test. What we did do is email 2 of the FM-Britain staff members to say that we’d still love to have them on the beta test team as we very much value their feedback, but that they could not re-join it if they were still going to be part of the team behind the paid guides because, simply, we cannot give the access that beta testers have to the game or the team at SI to people who were making and charging for unofficial guides against our will. One of the two people that we emailed is coming back to being a beta tester, and we’re delighted to have him back. The other has decided to not come back, which is his choice, and is a big shame for both he and we.

Below are the terms of the affiliate scheme for you to all see, including the questions and answers that came from a workshop that was arranged to discuss the new scheme. As mentioned above, there was only one site which said no to the new terms, which was FM-Britain and we’re delighted that 35 other websites have signed up to be part of it. The new affiliate scheme was being worked on well before the guide was released, and a lot of feedback from various affiliate sites was taken into account whilst it was being worked on, which includes helping the websites with revenue both via a bursary scheme and affiliate marketing for selling of merchandise (and, hopefully, copies of the game) and providing competition prizes so that sites like FM-Britain, and the multitude of other sites that were offering games as competition prizes in the past, are not paying for those out of their own pockets.

SPORTS INTERACTIVE AFFILIATE SCHEME WORKSHOP

We truly appreciate the passion, knowledge and loyalty of the FM community. This is why we’ve re-visited our affiliate scheme to review how best we can re-structure the scheme and ensure our fansites are receiving the full support of Sports Interactive and SEGA.

The affiliate workshop took place on Saturday 3rd July. For those that were not able to attend, you can watch the broadcast again here (running time: 1 hr 45 minutes): http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8047536

THE NEW STRUCTURE

We are proposing a new 3 tier approach with the criteria and benefits outlined below.

Level 1 – Fansite: Open to anyone who wishes to begin an FM fansite.

Benefits:

* Football Manager fansite badge

* Fan site kits access to FM assets and resources

* Mention in the community round-up and links posted on relevant FM related web-space

* Listed on FM.com affiliates section

* Invite to FM affiliates Fantasy Football League

Level 2 – Affiliate: Established for six months and have generated their own content during this time. Recommended by current FM Gold Affiliates.

Benefits:

* Affiliate badge

* The ability to sell games / merchandise through our new affiliate shop

* Eligible for bursary scheme

* 150-word synopsis of the site on FM.com

* Listed on in-game fansite list

* Direct access to the FM Community Team through a dedicated forum

* Monthly live online chats with FM community team

* Invitations to our community days and workshops

* Receive limited edition merchandise for use as competition prizes

* Yearly Football Manager Live subscriptions – 1 per site

* Invite to FM affiliates Fantasy Football League

Level 3 – FM Gold Affiliate: Established for two years with a large user base and regular weekly content.

Benefits:

* Gold Affiliate badge

* The ability to sell games / merchandise through our new affiliate shop

* Eligible for bursary scheme

* Access to preview code / BETA testing

* Listed on in-game fansite list

* 300-word synopsis of the site on FM.com

* Monthly round-up of new content posted as a news story on FM.com

* Direct access to the FM community team through affiliates forum

* Monthly live online chats with FM community team

* Invitations to our community days and workshops

* Receive limited edition merchandise for use as competition prizes

* Christmas gift!

* Invite to FM affiliates Fantasy Football League

BURSARY SCHEME

We’ve been looking into various ways in which we can provide you with some financial aid towards your running costs. Our first proposal is a new bursary scheme whereby we reward outstanding acts of community contribution with a cash reward for any activity we deem have proved of incredible value to the community over the course of each year. Here’s how it’ll work:

* We’ll keep a monthly ‘log’ of content from around the community

* Content can include anything from articles to tactic guides and challenges to downloads

* Best monthly content will also be featured on FM.com / Facebook / Twitter

* We’ll review the ‘log’ at the end of the year and decide which sites receive the bursary grants

How many bursaries will be available and to what value?

Exact details are to be confirmed but we expect to be offering around 20 bursaries, with 4 or 5 ‘top’ bursaries for the best performing sites. Amounts will be somewhere in the region of £100-250.

Are non-UK sites eligible for the affiliate scheme?

Yes. We should have territory community managers in Spain, Italy and France again so these guys will be able to help us monitor sites in those countries. Any affiliates outside of these countries will need to submit a round-up of their monthly content to us, ideally with a summary in English, to be considered.

How can you spend the money?

We leave this decision entirely up to you. You may use the money to help cover your bandwidth costs or to reward your site members for their contributions. It’s your choice.

AFFILIATES SHOP

We are currently exploring the possibilities of setting up a new ‘affiliates shop’ that will allow you guys to earn revenue from selling official FM merchandise and games through your site.

We appreciate that some of you may already be utilising other forms of ads/affiliate networks (e.g. Zavvi, Amazon) on your site and you are of course free to continue to using these if you wish to do so.

We are providing the affiliates shop as an extra revenue generating tool for you to utilise, it is up to you whether or not you want to take this option up.

We are still in ongoing talks but as soon as we are able to finalise details we will get these out to you.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

All our affiliate sites will be required to adhere to the following terms and conditions. We think they’re very reasonable, consider them more as guidelines that should help promote a friendlier, more harmonious community.

1. The content found on the site must concentrate solely on the Football Manager and Football Manager Live titles and speak about the Football Manager game series.

2. Sites must be updated on a regular basis.

We realise that for any site there are busy times and downtimes. We just want to see sites active on a regular basis; this can be in the form of mainsite articles, provision of downloads or forum activity.

3. The site cannot contain or link to content which violates or encourages violating the terms of use of any of the titles in the Football Manager series.

This line is a legal requirement. It’s not something we expect to be a problem but it is our obligation to be make these things clear. It absolutely does not refer to the ‘bad mouthing’ of SEGA or SI.

Violating the terms of use would include hosting any pirated content or links that promote piracy. It also includes any content or links to content that violates the conditions of Non Disclosure Agreements. Violating these terms would have serious consequences.

4. Do not host articles or content produced by other Football Manager fansites without the prior consent of the original content owner. Where consent is given, you must provide full accreditation and links back to the original content owner. Failure to do so could lead to legal action being taken against you.

5. You are not allowed to copy whole pages from the Football Manager website verbatim, although reasonable use of material from the site with clear reference to the copyright being held by SEGA / Sports Interactive is acceptable.

You can of course still post the latest news on patches, new game, features etc. Just please make sure to reference where the info was taken from.

6. The site must not charge users for ANY of its content. You are permitted to accept donations from users but this must be entirely at the individuals own discretion.

7. All sites should carry the following disclaimer:

This site is not endorsed by Sports Interactive or SEGA and is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views expressed on this site are the views of the individual contributors and not those of Sports Interactive or SEGA. The official Football Manager site can be found at www.footballmanager.com, the official Football Manager Live site at www.footballmanagerlive.com and the official forums can be found athttp://community.sigames.com/.

Sports Interactive, the Sports Interactive logo, in-game generated images and any other Football Manager related items are registered trademarks and/or copyright material owned by Sports Interactive, or their respective trademark and copyright holders.

SEGA and the SEGA logo are either registered trademarks or trademarks of SEGA Corporation. Football Manager, Football Manager Live, Sports Interactive and the Sports Interactive logo are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Sports Interactive Limited. All rights reserved.

WORKSHOP Q & A:

There were plenty of questions from all those that tuned in to the broadcast. Some of them have been covered off in the sections above but here is a round-up of the rest:

Q. Currently, there are lots of areas of the SI forums that are not viewable unless you are signed in to your SEGA pass account. Can you ‘unlock’ all areas so that we can link to threads from our site and make them viewable for all, even non-SEGA Pass members?

A. We have spoken to our online team and will let you know the outcome of that one.

Q. Can we be given early notification/access to the latest patches when they are released?

A. Unfortunately, this is not something we can do. We can’t share any links or give people prior notice as we ourselves have to wait for the patches to be released on STEAM before we can take any action. This is why everyone receives news of the latest patch at the same time, i.e. when it’s been released.

Q. Can we please be given notice of any FM events that are taking place?

A. Most definitely. Any events we can invite you to we will glad to have you there. We will also be looking at hosting some FM pub style quizzes and more regular community get togethers.

Q. Can we still charge a fee for a premium membership that allows members quicker access to downloading files, ad free pages?

A. Yes. As long as the actual content is still free for all to access you can continue to do so.

Q. How can I become involved in the research process?

A. The best thing to do is post in the research area of the SI forums and express your interest. We do have many long term relationships in place with our head researchers but there are sometimes new opportunities that arise. Keep an eye in this forum for any news.

Q. Is there anything you can do to better promote and acknowledge the contributions of individuals and not just websites within the community?

A. Certainly. We will be posting regular community round-ups on the FM website as well as community member profiles and a list of their greatest works.

Q. Can you provide unique ID’s from within the game to help us with our game updates, downloads etc?

A. Unfortunately not. Due to legal reasons, this is something we absolutely cannot provide you with.

Q. If I have an idea for a piece of merchandise, can I submit it to you to be considered?

Of course! We can’t make any promises but we can certainly take them into consideration.

(Please note that some of the benefits for affiliates have been removed for the publishing of this document, but the terms and conditions are not changed)

Cheers

Miles, Ov & Paul”

This is completely and utterly incorrect. They're not directly profiting from the IP - they don't use any patented items. What they are doing is akin to reviewing a movie in a newspaper - writing ABOUT the IP, not copying it.

If they had used screens, etc, then there would be an IP case to answer, but just discussing, in the abstract, how to win at a game, in no way contravenes the IP.

They go in depth to the mechanics of the ME, with knowledge they have gained from talking to the ME creator, pretty sure that's infringing on the Intellectual Property of Paul C and the work he has done over 15 years. Though I'm no lawyer, so I might very well be speaking crap, its still morally wrong though.

This is completely and utterly incorrect. They're not directly profiting from the IP - they don't use any patented items. What they are doing is akin to reviewing a movie in a newspaper - writing ABOUT the IP, not copying it.

If they had used screens, etc, then there would be an IP case to answer, but just discussing, in the abstract, how to win at a game, in no way contravenes the IP.

You aren't looking at it the right way. This isn't akin to reviewing a movie you see in the cinema - there are many unofficial reviews, as there are many unofficial ideas on FM. When a movie is made, a select few people are chosen to view the movie before it comes out. Some will be official reviewers, and others will just be members of the public. They are required to reveal NOTHING of the movie that hasn't already been revealed. FMB were given access to the beta version of the game, and given permission to produce a free guide using this. They then decided to charge without asking first.

It all comes down to the beta testing role, and SI are completely in the right.

bottom line in this dicsussion from the SI answer:

simply, we cannot give the access that beta testers have to the game or the team at SI to people who were making and charging for unofficial guides against our will

Really, what did the FMB guys expect?

So, there's no IP or copyright issue, just FMB throwing toys out of a pram. Lovely.

You aren't looking at it the right way. This isn't akin to reviewing a movie you see in the cinema - there are many unofficial reviews, as there are many unofficial ideas on FM. When a movie is made, a select few people are chosen to view the movie before it comes out. Some will be official reviewers, and others will just be members of the public. They are required to reveal NOTHING of the movie that hasn't already been revealed. FMB were given access to the beta version of the game, and given permission to produce a free guide using this. They then decided to charge without asking first.

It all comes down to the beta testing role, and SI are completely in the right.

Which is exactly the point I made in my long post above. I just wanted people to get away from the IP point, which is entirely irrelevant

EDIT: but would become relevant if FMB had used copyrightes/TM material.

They go in depth to the mechanics of the ME, with knowledge they have gained from talking to the ME creator, pretty sure that's infringing on the Intellectual Property of Paul C and the work he has done over 15 years. Though I'm no lawyer, so I might very well be speaking crap, its still morally wrong though.

Agreed, morally wrong exploiting a beta spot for monetary gain, but not, currently, legally wrong.

Still find it odd how you can't include the ME as an IP considering its the heart and brain of the game. Can't think of any fansite that has tried to charge of FM content over the years, and if it had been allowed it would have thrown open a huge pandora's box. The only thing I can think of is one, maybe two, fansites trying to charge for megafacepacks a few years ago but that quickly stopped.

The ME itself is IP, but not writing about it.

To go back to my movie analogy from before:

In Inception, Joseph Gordon Levitt does some pretty awesome stunts. Now, you can watch in awe wondering: 'God, I wonder how he did that?' or you can read some of the behind the scenes things put out by the cast and crew (people who had special, privileged knowledge about how it was made). Some of those people got paid for interviews, etc.

Effectively, if FMB had tried to pass off the ME as their own work, that would be a violation - but discussing how to beat it is not.

But the guide isn't their own work, its words they have written with knowledge gained from talking to the creator of the ME, which they've went on to sell without telling him. Its not 100% their own findings. Isn't that infringing on the creator's work?

Your analogy for a movie is basically a synopsis, where as FMB have basically tried to write the script for the movie word for word (explain the workings of the ME in depth), with a very variations, and tried to sell it off. All the 'behind the scenes stuff' would have been given the green light by producers and movie lawyers though. They would have had to get permission first.

EDIT:

Don't mean to be arguing with you, just find it odd that a ME wouldn't be protected when its basically how the game works. Otherwise, I'd be expecting to see a lot more in depth written guides into how games work being sold on the internet without need permission.

Not sure SI need to say anything. They don't want people hawking premium content in an ebay 'secrets' manner and I completely understand why.

Legally, as an unoffical strategy guide they did NOT have to inform SI of their commercial operations.

The big sticking point seems to be the fact that some of the people that write the guides are beta testers.

Effectively, SI seem to have said: 'Fine, keep selling the guides, but if you do, you don't have a beta slot any more'.

Now, I read the first one back in 08 (or was it 09?) and thought it very well written, and obviously took a great deal of time to compile, write and release - it is first class work; but (!) it was only half as effective as it was because some of the writers were beta testers. Without their access, the guide would not have been half as decent.

So, this is what we're down to: FMB have every right to write and publish any strategy guides they like, as long as they don't impinge on copyright, etc. Likewise, SI have every right to choose their own beta testers. SI objected to people profiting from their status as a tester, and asked them to stop.

And that's it.

Personally, I think that the FMB guides were good work, well written, and actually supported the community. I really don't think it did nay harm. But, the moral/ethical stance that SI have taken is entirely legitimate, and FMB can choose to respond to it in whichever way they wish.

I think this post summarises the situation very well.

All i can say is the fmb e-mail just stinks of a childish tone, attempting to take a part of SI with them on their way out. I can understand their points on wanting to charge but if SI doesn't want them profiting off testing spots then thats completely up to them and they should reserve the right to stop these people from testing.

Has the currption came to SI as well ?

Until SI can actually produce a game manual that is even half the quality of what the FMB guys put out they should just shut the f**k up !

Threatening FMB with legal action and the removal from the beta program, even though some of those guys have been instrumental in helping develop some of the new features over the last couple of games just screams pathetic.

You claim that all content should be free - yet you expect us to pay for the game. Why should it be one rule for you and another for anyone willing to put in their spare time to produce quality content. It's not like they were damaging your sales or raking in hundreds of thousands - infact these are probably some of the most loyal FM people out there so all you've achieved with your actions is to alienate those extreme loyal fans who should infact come above all else.

You manual is sh1te and always has been - and the game has become increasingly complicated and infuriating over the last few editions so when SI provided you with no where to turn, FMB did and should be applauded for it. It no longer has that pick-up-and-playability which the originals had and as such has become a victim of its own success. Without these kind of guides being put out you probably stand to lose a proportion of your user base and quickly alienate any new users to the point where they give up and abandon the series.

Well done SI, well done (claps slowly and sarcastically)

What he said

i dont understand why people seem to think there wont be other guides form people who have the same passion for the game and more time to do it so they dont charge it? it really beats me.

exactly fmb think that this is going to be a massive blow to the community but others will take their place and even if the quality isn't the same it won't be a major loss.

Surely this is being made a bit more complicated than it appears and what really matters is:

1. Are FMB using the guides to feather their own nest

2. Are FMB filling a void not provided by the game creators which is of use to users

For me the answer to 1 is that they are only making enough money to support their activity and not making huge profits and for 2 I believe their offering helps enhance peoples enjoyment of the game as the creators haven't produced a worthy manual

I make the above assumptions based on what I have seen and facts I have read but may be wrong of course

SI should've hired the lot of them and merged the two sites together.

exactly fmb think that this is going to be a massive blow to the community but others will take their place and even if the quality isn't the same it won't be a major loss.

I guess we will have to see 1st before speaking too soon. Even if there is 1, will the guide be as detailed and as good as the 1 made by FMB?

I just hope SI can revamp their manual which is pretty much useless.

Actually, losing Millie and wwfan's insight into the game is quite a huge loss to the community. There really isn't anyone who can fill that gap.

I posted this on the TT forum:

Well first off I would like to say a big thank you to FM Britain. They helped me enormously understand the latter iterations of FM. Especially the slider options which are still strongly debated in the FM forums.

I am no fan boy of either group being a man in my late 50’s that “fanboy” thing tends not to appear and is irrelevant.

I contributed to the heated yet informed debate, on this forum, when FMB charged for their CPW. It did split the community. That said it was such a minor aspect of the overall content they produced that for me it did not matter that much. However, many had very strong opposing views to mine.

The main losers out of all this will the community. Not all of us have the time to delve as deeply into the game as others. Yes working out your own tactic and understanding how the ME, player’s positions, attributes and so on worked together for each game and each player within that game is challenging and fruitful part of the game. But for some of us we needed guidance and TTF8 through to 10 were free and so informative.

Whether or not the ME changes so that those guides (FFT10) become outdated, is not yet known. Presumably though huge aspects of that document will still be relevant to the FM11.

What worries me about this whole affair is the possible or potential change in direction of SI, now that it is owned by the Big Boys and not a family concern. Of course they do continue to rely in my opinion on the community to produce free content right across the game from skins, badges to playing guides. All that free content does enrich the game and I am sure moves more units. Why would they not want that to continue?

I feel that FMB seem to have be unfairly pilloried in all of this and reading their letter they stated their intention of 1 premium content per year and no more (regardless of some of the speculation I have read in here).

Sorry overlong ramble.

My bottom line is that this just makes the community a little less rather than a little more. Though others will have the opposite view from what I have expressed.

Always dislike it when the big boys threaten legal action against the small boys, smells bad.

If you have read this far thank you.

K

I thought beta-testers had to sign some sort of confidentiality clause? If true, then these guides should not have been SOLD ON A BUSINESS FOOTING without SI's blessing.

I posted this on the TT forum:Always dislike it when the big boys threaten legal action against the small boys, smells bad.

That tells me you haven't read SI's reply. Perhaps you ought to to understand what the real situation is.

I posted this on the TT forum:

Well first off I would like to say a big thank you to FM Britain. They helped me enormously understand the latter iterations of FM. Especially the slider options which are still strongly debated in the FM forums.

I am no fan boy of either group being a man in my late 50’s that “fanboy” thing tends not to appear and is irrelevant.

I contributed to the heated yet informed debate, on this forum, when FMB charged for their CPW. It did split the community. That said it was such a minor aspect of the overall content they produced that for me it did not matter that much. However, many had very strong opposing views to mine.

The main losers out of all this will the community. Not all of us have the time to delve as deeply into the game as others. Yes working out your own tactic and understanding how the ME, player’s positions, attributes and so on worked together for each game and each player within that game is challenging and fruitful part of the game. But for some of us we needed guidance and TTF8 through to 10 were free and so informative.

Whether or not the ME changes so that those guides (FFT10) become outdated, is not yet known. Presumably though huge aspects of that document will still be relevant to the FM11.

What worries me about this whole affair is the possible or potential change in direction of SI, now that it is owned by the Big Boys and not a family concern. Of course they do continue to rely in my opinion on the community to produce free content right across the game from skins, badges to playing guides. All that free content does enrich the game and I am sure moves more units. Why would they not want that to continue?

I feel that FMB seem to have be unfairly pilloried in all of this and reading their letter they stated their intention of 1 premium content per year and no more (regardless of some of the speculation I have read in here).

Sorry overlong ramble.

My bottom line is that this just makes the community a little less rather than a little more. Though others will have the opposite view from what I have expressed.

Always dislike it when the big boys threaten legal action against the small boys, smells bad.

If you have read this far thank you.

K

Except they said they didn't threaten legal action

I thought beta-testers had to sign some sort of confidentiality clause? If true, then these guides should not have been SOLD ON A BUSINESS FOOTING without SI's blessing.

They do.

If it's not breaking any clauses itself to replicate this:

To join the group you’ll need to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement (a document where you legally promise to not discuss any area of beta testing or what you are testing) in order to take part in the testing process and therefore must be over 18 or be able to get your parents to sign the legal document for you.

2.You are fully entitled to enter into this Agreement and are not restricted from doing so by the terms of any other agreement and have not granted any rights granted hereunder to any other person.

3.If you receive any confidential information relating to SI or SI’s business, you will not at any time use this information or disclose it to anyone without SI’s written permission and will return it and any copies that you have to SI on request.

4.This Agreement shall be construed in accordance with English Law and both SI and you agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the English Courts.

I wish I was a tester again. Wasted my chance.