6&5 Rule

any chance an edit or something could made with this rule in? Would be great to play the game this way. Can anyone create it?

Only SI could do that, because it would have to be hard coded in. They won't do it though as it hasn't been confirmed.

And never will be. Due to the whole, being racist and illegal.

Fun rule to impose on yourself though if you want a more challanging game.

Racist? Has it been changed to 6 whites & 5 people of other races?

The only teams that will not like this rule are teams like ARSENAl and others who choose not to have English players,

Now that just as much rasist as having the 6 plus 5 rule.

why does everything have to come down to rasist stuff. it f%*king this country up.

It will be most likely implemented in FM '10.

I doubt that FIFA will streamline the rule by the time that '09 is coming out.

Originally posted by shamule:

The only teams that will not like this rule are teams like ARSENAl and others who choose not to have English players,

Now that just as much rasist as having the 6 plus 5 rule.

why does everything have to come down to rasist stuff. it f%*king this country up.

They choose not to have English players due to a) English players not being as good and b) English players being ridiculously overpriced. And it isn't just fans of teams like Arsenal that wouldn't like it, I'm a Spurs fan, we have enough English players in our first team to make sure it'd barely affect us, but I'd rather see quality players in our league, regardless of nationality, than a bunch of English players who are only in the team because they were born here.

Blatantly isn't racist though, in any way you could look at it.

Originally posted by endtime:

Racist? Has it been changed to 6 whites & 5 people of other races?

A group of englishman beat a scotmans to death because his scottish. Assuming the englishman are all white, and the scotsman is also white, using your logic this is not a racist attack.

Nor would a group of africans beating up a guy from the Caribbean because he was from there, (which is alot more common then you may think.)

Racism is about more then just skin colour.

Arsenal do not have a policy against recruiting English players. Its just that the policy against recruiting bad players just ends up looking alot like that. As english players are rubbish.

Arsenal signed Eduardo for 7mil. Darren Bent in the same window cost 16.5mil.

Now, I dont think anyone is going to try and claim Bent as better then Eduardo. But once cost massively more then the other.

The only reason for this is because certain footballing bodies leaders have very very anti english views, as most of europe does.

Which i personally find amusing as they would all be speaking german and hailing the swastika if it wasnt for us, but thats a different story.

Originally posted by shamule:

The only teams that will not like this rule are teams like ARSENAl and others who choose not to have English players,

Now that just as much rasist as having the 6 plus 5 rule.

why does everything have to come down to rasist stuff. it f%*king this country up.

Theres an incesteous smell to this post.

DiamondPirate: I think xenophobia is the word you're looking for

Originally posted by endtime:

DiamondPirate: I think xenophobia is the word you're looking for

Nope. Its Racism.

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. '[1]

Why do you use the word "racism" and back it up with the definition of the term "racial discrimination"?

Anyway, this conversation is getting silly, especially with you stating that the 6+5 rule is part of a Europe-wide anti-English conspiracy.

Because Racism is just a abbreviated term for Racial Discrimation.

And it is.

English players are much over priced in their country as in any other player probably in their country but the fact is players from other countries (eg smaller european countries) r cheaper ) such is life get over it. Id prefer english in the english game but they are more expensive then say a young brazial from brazil. Im not even english and sayin this. The reason is the money is in england but people don't want to invest in youth where it all starts O.o Im from australia and they are only starting to start to invest in this...

english players are rubbish

Ooh, you big racist!

And restricting trade between EU countries will not happen unless Blatter is made president of one of those countries and he persuades all the other to withdraw the free trade agreement that is the backbone of the EU.

It's debatable whether it's racist to say you can't play here based on your country of birth, but it's definitely illegal within the EU.

The best Blatter can hope for is that he bans non-EU players in a 5 + 6 rule. But I doubt that will happen either.

Originally posted by DiamondPirate:

And never will be. Due to the whole, being racist and illegal.

Fun rule to impose on yourself though if you want a more challanging game.

What absolute and utter political correctness nonsense. If it was racist then it would only be brought in in...ONE...country, it's not fifa want it across the board, and about time too.

The sooner this ruling is brought in the better!!!

It's discrimination, you can't not hire somebody for your company because they're not English, likewise within football, it will never be passed because of the EU law.

So are the EU racist for not allowing people outside to work within it without visas? If a player gets refused a work permit is it racist? Of course not, but would be under some peoples lusicrous thinking!!!

Something cannot be racist if it's the same ruling in..EVERY..country.

It's about time loony lefties stopping beating the racist drum over every little thing, that causes more racial hatred than anything else!!!

I think this conversation is best suited for off-topic forum.

OP was just asking can he change rules in game, not what everyone's opinion is on that matter.

If rule passes(i certainly hope it does), it will be in FM 10, as most likely it will be to late for FM 09.Maybe in 9.0.2 patch

And you were never able to edit league rules in FM.So gotta wait for SI to do it.

Originally posted by mlp071:

I think this conversation is best suited for off-topic forum.

OP was just asking can he change rules in game, not what everyone's opinion is on that matter.

If rule passes(i certainly hope it does), it will be in FM 10, as most likely it will be to late for FM 09.Maybe in 9.0.2 patch

And you were never able to edit league rules in FM.So gotta wait for SI to do it.

Thats the only decent thing about Fifa Manager, other than its gui.

IT has an amazing editor, that lets you change the ammount of divisions, rules, teams entered. It even lets you change the ammount of points for a win or draw.

I think this is where SI falls down.

But the only downfall none the less.

Can I make an extremely unhelpful post for no other reason than I hate having to see it while waiting for the game to start?

Let's kick racism out of football!

I hope this rule never appears in football. It's both against EU law, and it's just plain rediculous. The manager's team selection should not be determined by where someone comes from. It will also destroy the English National team further, and even better it'll destroy the Premier League. It also prevents good players from getting the maximum that they are worth from not being allowed to go to some clubs. Really, Blatter has his head up his arse and if this rule passes it's a pure disgrace!

It also prevents good players from getting the maximum that they are worth from not being allowed to go to some clubs.

This would only be a problem in the short term. As time passes, countries national leagues will become stronger as more of their quality players will have to stay in that league, which in turn brings sponsorship and tv interest, and therefore exposure.

If this measure is implimented, it will be for the long term benefits rather than the short term.

Oh, and two points - a)This rule will in time benefit the English national side. How anyone can come up with the ludicrous suggestion that this rule is being considered because "Blatter hates the English" is beyond me.

b)Almost every country in Europe already has limits on numbers of non-EU players allowed in squads/on the pitch. The only reason England doesn't is because of it's politically correct immigration laws.

It's all well and good taking the short sighted "It'd ruin the Premiership!" point of view. It may surprise a few to know that the Premiership isn't the be all and end all, and the growth of other leagues and other footballing nations is far more important than the "I want to see the best players at my Premiership club" arguement. You will still see the best players. Your clubs are massively rich in comparison to pretty much every other club in the world. It's just that your club would have to take a long term approach and invest in youth rather than the short term fix of "buying the best players". And the best clubs would remain the best clubs because they're richer, and therefore have more money to invest in youth.

The reason people have a problem with this is that they want the short term fix, because all they really care about is how many trophies massive team X win so that they can get one over on their mates down the pub who support massive team Y, whilst both being over 100 miles from the stadium of the teams they support whilst smaller club a couple of divisions below the Premiership just down the road goes out of business, because they're seen as "Crap" because they're not on Sky every week.

*Rant over*

Your argument was going well until your last paragraph. What does the location of a person's house have to do with their footballing opinion? Not to mention that the smaller clubs a couple of divisions below still have ticket prices so high that many fans simply can't afford to go to their matches either.

And fwiw, there are quite a lot of football fans who don't particularly care about the national team.

If you think that this rule would help anyone, you are terribly mistaken. The only effect it will have in the long term in players being worth many time more in their home country. Now, what happens in such a situation... Oh that's right the rich clubs get all of the best players from their nation and the smaller clubs (like Accrington Stanley) go further bust! Supply and Demand! At the moment in the Premier League there is a massive supply for talent, but if you add these kind of rules then the supply of good players that will be allowed on the pitch will massively drop, sent price through the roof. Further more this rule will make the entire planet quite even, the only problem is that they will all be terrible in comparison. There will be plenty of players that will never reach their potential because they can't get into a big League and then... BAM! There aren't going to be any left. If you want a sure fire way of ruining the sport, here's Blatter with the 6+5 rule!

Next, my team aren't even in the Premier League (anymore), so that argument doesn't hold water. The reason I oppose the rule so strongly is mainly because of just how rediculous it really is. It is a matter for the FA of each country to decide these kind of rules, not FIFA. FIFA should be out there trying to do something half useful, like... I don't know, stopping this diving problem (*cough* Grosso *cough*). Or maybe let's kick racism out of footba... Oh, that's right we're going back on that now! FIFA shouldn't be here to tell people that they can't play for a particular team.

Oh, and I really don't give two ***** about England, Australia on the other hand... Also, if your wondering my other team Queensland are hardly rolling in the dosh. As I said, I oppose this rule because it's a lefty piece of ****. "Oh, let's FORCE everyone league in the world to be bias towards their own players, that way we can destory the quality of football as a whole!"

The rule is stupid. What these guys are trying to do is to stop the world cup from losing popularity and inciting nationalism. We know that there is no true reason why we should prefer our nation over anybody elses in the postmodern global society and that the whole race/nation thing is just a big social construct woven together for the benefit of the rich and powerful. In other words, its all crap and so is the rule.

Its such a bad idea that I think it may even put me off football.

It astounds me how people actually believe the "making our national team more powerful" propaganda continuously being chucked at our faces. Simple Darwinian evolution theory proves that selecting for the English trait just increases the number of Englishmen, it doesn't magically make them better. In fact I would argue that there are too many Englishmen in the Premier league at the moment. People that are simply repeating the filthy media and unfounded nationalism look this up yourself - think of all the good national sides at the moment. Say France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Spain. These countries all have a healthy overseas supply of strong experienced players. Especially Argentina, they have a big contribution from their home country of exactly 0 players in the current squad. Compare this with England, they have exactly 1 player from an overseas league, that is David Beckham. From the US. If Beckham were to retire by the next two years or so, the number of English players playing overseas and getting experience from different styles of play against different players will be 0.

Same with managers. Who are the best English managers in the league at the moment?

Also, English is not the UK. how many players would the premier league be losing from places which are not england? Yeah, Aaron Ramsey and Gareth Bale can go back to Wales and play and make their league better. So can Robbie Keane and Damien Duff. We don't even want Alan Hutton or Craig Gordon, f off you people who speak the same language and share similar cultures to us. Oh and Giggs too, he should never have even been in United, the foreign bastard ruining the English national team. Imagine how we could have had a fictional young ENGLISH player in his place instead, but him having been shunted away due to the lack of opportunities in the first team. FIFA loves to nurture youth and national team prospects so much that they would send players back to their own country to play even when the quality of their leagues are very low and even when they don't live in that country anymore.

Don't be dumb when you assume that clubs will start taking a long term view of nurturing young talent. Firstly, clubs are producing youth players RIGHT NOW. They don't just magically appear out of nowhere. It will be exactly the same as it is now, the best clubs buying the best established players, except now they will be English! You'll have Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves (I refuse to acknowledge this guy as English), and Phil Jagielka in the same team! Don't just eat up everything they tell you, how in the world does this rule have anything to do with balancing of the leagues, if we've already established that overseas players are not inherently better than home players (by assuming that the quality of English players will "show through" when foreigners leave)? Just remember that in capitalistic operations, short term methods are ALWAYS preferred over long term.

England does have its own set of guidelines for awarding work permits the foreign players. Granted it is too lenient, but a revision of the guidelines would surely be more effective than a blanket ban. Also Non-EU is different to different countries within the EU.

Here my own prediction for what will happen. Eventually The Champions league will just turn into the world cup, Liverpool v. Inter Milan = England v. Italy. When Audiences wise up to that fact during the world cup when England v. Italy, possibly the final = Liverpool v. Inter Milan, they'll stop watching the world cup, causing huge monetary losses to FIFA. The club scene will be more unbalanced than ever. Before, smaller clubs settled on English players, they were quite skilled but now the bigger clubs are taking them, hmm When you have good English players and they leave, what does that leave you with? Maybe I'm not getting something, but I don't think Bad English players are any better than any other kind of bad player. Well apart from the silly accent. Eventually they'll realise it doesn't work and change it back, this time using "to create more diversity in order to curb racism and forge strong alliances between footballing countries" as an excuse, because by that time the phrase "damn foreigners, no wonder they kicked them out of the league they're all bad people" will be a fairly prominent part of society.

I have spent a while typing this and finally, I would like to urge everybody not to take everything at face value. We are intellectuals and we must be the active audience to the media and not passive, otherwise they just control us. Please read the news properly and form your own opinion. Again, think about whether it is worth abandoning the teaching of bigots who don't even realize and recognize racial discrimination (not saying the rule is racist I haven't decided myself whether it is yet, its kind of borderline for me at the moment, but read on) in favor of fulfilling a false sense of nationalism (which would be like saying "yes, go ahead, be racists")? How is nationalism real anymore when it takes the same time to drive up to Manchester as jumping on a plane to Madrid? Weigh up the pros and cons yourself, and then we can talk about it.

For me personally there is one pro and many cons. cons have been listed mostly, some haven't. pro is that the nationalism will run strongly in patriotic people. But that to me is not so important, and in my opinion would not help the current racial problems in Europe at the moment, so its also a con.

Oh one more thing people remember that FIFA is just a bunch of greedy old farts with their conservative ideologies trying to control everything that goes on and increase the value of football, primarily FIFA organized competitions as a commodity. Don't play their game.

As the EU won't allow it, thank God, it doesn't really matter how SI would hypothetically implement the rule.

Damn this no editing. I'd like to add that the current Homegrown rule in effect by UEFA is a brilliant innovation and the only sensible one, and deserves to be given more respect than the 6+5 ruling that has been given so much media attention. The whole point of the Homegrown rule is to encourage teams to give youth a chance. If English youth can perform better than foreign youth even they have a chance because it is established foreign stars that "stand in their way" following the line of logic most advocates of the 6+5 rule.

Oh that's right the rich clubs get all of the best players from their nation and the smaller clubs (like Accrington Stanley) go further bust!

FIrst of all, this point is somewhat moot. The example you've given (which I assume you gave because I mention in my location that I'm currently playing as them in FM) is clever, however in the arguement you use, you say that English players would become overpriced. Quite how that would result in smaller teams going bust is beyond me - at the moment small clubs can be held to ransom by bigger clubs and the players themselves, and often have to take small fees to avoid getting nothing for players on bosmans.

If you think that this rule would help anyone, you are terribly mistaken.

It would help the leagues of smaller Nations. They would have a higher percentage of quality players.

And fwiw, there are quite a lot of football fans who don't particularly care about the national team.

However Fifa do, since the largest Football competition in the world features National Teams, and they run it. Hence them wanting it to be more competitive.

I don't know, stopping this diving problem (*cough* Grosso *cough*)

I'd rather they deal with the fact that smaller teams go out of business because the larger clubs no longer buy their talent because there is no rule in place to limit foreigners than the fact Grosso dives sometimes.

"Oh, let's FORCE everyone league in the world to be bias towards their own players, that way we can destory the quality of football as a whole!"

Again, most leagues in the world have limits on foreign/Non-EU players already.

Say France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Spain. These countries all have a healthy overseas supply of strong experienced players.

And all have limits on foreigners.

Oh and Giggs too, he should never have even been in United, the foreign bastard ruining the English national team.

This quote is ridiculous, and nothing of this nature was implied by any previous posters. So thank you for that.

Don't just eat up everything they tell you, how in the world does this rule have anything to do with balancing of the leagues, if we've already established that overseas players are not inherently better than home players (by assuming that the quality of English players will "show through" when foreigners leave)?

I'm not eating up anything anyone tells me. However rather than jumping on one bandwagon rather than the other, I have considered my opinion and now wish to share it. And personally, I do not believe "The quality of English players will show through when all these foreigners leave", as you put it. And I never said I did.

Oh one more thing people remember that FIFA is just a bunch of greedy old farts with their conservative ideologies trying to control everything that goes on and increase the value of football, primarily FIFA organized competitions as a commodity.

And the world governing body. Whose job it is to "control everything that goes on".

As the EU won't allow it, thank God

A real nightmare scenario for world football will be if the EU dont allow it and FIFA install it everywhere else. That would unbalance things further.

I just want to say, I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Oh, and for the record, my club has just won promotion with an average of 10 players of the starting 11 born in the country the club plays in. And 5-6 of those being born in the city the club plays in. Which is possibly why I have a more leinient view of this rule than most

Originally posted by Junkhead:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As the EU won't allow it, thank God

A real nightmare scenario for world football will be if the EU dont allow it and FIFA install it everywhere else. That would unbalance things further.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Err, no, it's actually the ideal situation. Quite simply, if the EU blocks it, the idea is dead. FIFA implementing it without UEFA won't happen, especially as UEFA brass are the main cheerleaders for it.

This quite bizarre thread has led me to the conclusion that International football is racist!

Anyway, there won't be a need to implement 6+5 in FM, as it won't happen.

I am against the rule too and i believe that it will not pass from EU parliament.

The first effect is that local players will become very overpriced , here in Greece we already have peasant teams like Aris asking 3-4m for mediocre players , paying a fortune just to fill your bench is just not wise in a league like this.

Then clubs from leagues with lot of money will get destroyed (i can not think which TV channel will pay zillions to show games between local woodcutters and fishermen) .

The rule says that a player counts as home grown if he is trained 3 years in the club before the age of 20 , there are already too many kids from the 3rd world abandoned by their managers all over the continent and 11 year old Europeans with already 2 transfers in their history book .

Football's purpose should not be to create social problems .

I wonder when this thread will be closed?

All this talk about racism is stupid.

I think that this 6&5 rule would be a good idea as it would help in bringing young English players into the side, have you not seen why most of the time the England squad is the same everytime they play a game?

Because they are the best players at Capello's disposal, all the other players are just not good enough, so with the introduction of this 6&5 rule, I believe that it will help clubs trying to "blood" youngsters into their respective sides, therefore with these youngsters playing first team football it will help in their development and help them mature into very good players, therefore improving the number of very good players that will be at the disposal for whoever is the manager of the National side.

We've already seen what happens in the lower leagues what happens when teams "blood" their own youngsters, not being biased but if you have at Ipswich for example, quite a few of their players that came through their youth system have gone on to play for England, such as Kieron Dyer, Richard Wright, and most recently we have seen Darren Bent being involved with the England set-up (yes he didn't come up through the youth academy but it's as good as though, with him being with the club for so long).

Yes, it will take a few years for the youngsters to come through to be good enough to play for England, but given time they will come good, After the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, and Ferdinand are gone who is going to take their place? Because at this current time I can't see anyone except Micah Richards and Lescott at Everton, other than that no-one else who can make the step-up.

So, given time I think that yes, the 6&5 rule will work, but that's my own view.

I think the exact opposite would happen. Side would "blood" more poms, but the issue for England is that the quality would be dramatically reduced. What is the point of having more poms in the top teams if the very best won't be able to play at that very top level.

With the amount of money that teams get these days through income I cannot see how they won't be able to improve their training and youth facilities up to the highest standard, yes not every team will be able to produce the most promising youngsters in world football, but they will produce some very good players.

I think trying to find those players will be quite a hard task as well as developing them.

Junkhead: your argument seems to have run into a few contradictions. My views on your opinions are:

FIrst of all, this point is somewhat moot. The example you've given (which I assume you gave because I mention in my location that I'm currently playing as them in FM) is clever, however in the arguement you use, you say that English players would become overpriced. Quite how that would result in smaller teams going bust is beyond me - at the moment small clubs can be held to ransom by bigger clubs and the players themselves, and often have to take small fees to avoid getting nothing for players on bosmans.

I don't see how the situation will be different following the 6+5 implementation. I don't know what you mean here, I have to ask you to explain this further.

However Fifa do, since the largest Football competition in the world features National Teams, and they run it. Hence them wanting it to be more competitive.

That only makes sense in their point of view. Whether this will benefit football as a whole, that is another matter. I see the World cup becoming better to watch as a positive thing, however at the cost of increased racialisation and an added sense of national/racial exclusivity, I don't believe that it is worth it.

And the world governing body. Whose job it is to "control everything that goes on".

Sociologically speaking, there is something very wrong with this idea. Why should they? The nationality of the football player is not linked to the football itself, this is a matter of their warped ideologies and their greed showing through.

I'd rather they deal with the fact that smaller teams go out of business because the larger clubs no longer buy their talent because there is no rule in place to limit foreigners than the fact Grosso dives sometimes.

I'm not eating up anything anyone tells me. However rather than jumping on one bandwagon rather than the other, I have considered my opinion and now wish to share it. And personally, I do not believe "The quality of English players will show through when all these foreigners leave", as you put it. And I never said I did.

I don't know if you notice it, but these two statements present a contradiction. Unless you believe that national players should be given a chance to play even if they are not as good.

And all have limits on foreigners.

They have limits on Non-EU players just like you said so before. You can easily have a team full of European foreigners in France or Italy. England has a work permit system in place for non-EU players also (i.e. case of Carlos Vela in the last 2 seasons), which I have suggested they revise. The 6+5 rule is not directly aimed at England, as you clarified that in another post (Blatter is not anti-English).

This quote is ridiculous, and nothing of this nature was implied by any previous posters. So thank you for that.

I would prefer it if you didn't take a sarcastic statement by me out of context. What I implied by that was that unintended consequences arising from this rule will occur, and that it is highly flawed. I will explain this in my own statement at the end.

I just want to say, I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Oh, and for the record, my club has just won promotion with an average of 10 players of the starting 11 born in the country the club plays in. And 5-6 of those being born in the city the club plays in. Which is possibly why I have a more leinient view of this rule than most

Congratulations but I don't believe that pride in another person's nationality or where they were born is so important, in fact my own opinion is that it may be borderline wrong. My own experience in growing up in a foreign country where I am sometimes not considered as a part of the nation even though I live with them, wear the same clothes, go to the same school, have the same sense of humor and even have the same accent. Therefore I know that perceived similarities (assuming another person is the same as you even when you don't know them personally, judging them by colour, nationality, the way they talk etc), the basis for national identity is sometimes far from the truth. I don't want to go into it but it is very interesting to read about, maybe look up the book (Race and Social Analysis, C. Knowles, 2003) if you ever have the chance.

I have just managed to make sense of an incredible flaw of this rule. Think about this. The clubs in every team will most likely save their 5 foreign places in the team for high quality talent. The 6+5 ruling is (copied from the FIFA webpage) "the 6+5 rule, which basically provides that a club team must start a match with at least six players that would be eligible for the national team of the country in which the club is domiciled.". In theory (using England as an example) the quality of English footballers will increase over time (I still don't understand why but I'll run with it). And if we agree that poaching of foreign talents usually happen in their mid-teens (say 14-17). Now think about the destructive properties this rule would be to the national teams of other countries without established leagues? Imagine these 3 scenarios (this is a very very likely one):

Say England had a good league with good salaries and everything. A young player from say Lithuania would come to England and play for the youth/reserve of say Newcastle. Now this player is eligible for Lithuania but not England. The player isn't quite good enough to compete with the 5 established stars for places, and so he waits and applies for English nationality, because that's the only way he'll get to play. by the time he is 22/23, he has his england nationality and is allowed to play for Newcastle. The Lithuanian FA want him to play for the nation. Alas, he cannot because as soon as he loses his eligibility for English national team, he loses his place in the club. He cannot play for the English national team because he's just not good enough to get a callup and also feels a loyalty to Lithuania, his home country. And so he is stuck in national team limbo until he's good enough to play for the first team as a foreigner, or gets an england cap. This will lead to Lithuania to complain about the rules and also criticism from english people citing that he is not truly english (i.e. having too many Owen Hargreaves' in the team). This example has 2 problems. 1) Waste of talent, when he could be playing international football from a much younger age he cannot. 2) If he elects for England team, criticism from people that he is not truly English, plus the weakening of a national side in Lithuania.

Consider the parents of a spectacularly talented 10 year old in San Marino. They want to give him the best chance he has for football and they also want money, so they all move to Italy, where he joins a local side and lives there and gets the Italian nationality. 2 things may happen: 1)He develops his skills and he becomes world class, and eligible to play for Italy. He feels no feelings towards San Marino (he left when he was 10, how do you expect him to feel?) and so chooses the Italian national team to the horror of the San Marino FA. 2)He does not turn out to be such a great player, he stays in Italy as he has no emotional connection to San Marino, no help for either national team.

A player who is born in England but also eligible for the Jamaican national team. He is not good enough for the England team but good enough for the Jamaican team, in fact better than all the other Jamaican players anyway. He holds down a regular place in his English club side as a home nation player, but not as good as the foreign players. He waits till he is around 24, and gives up on England call up. But if he chooses to play for Jamaica, he is not eligible for England national team any more! He is English, but he is still counted as foreign!

And what about players from the UK who cannot get English nationality?

Me examples demonstrate the probable flaws of this rule and how illogical it is. It will NOT improve the youth of the nation in fact it will weaken national sides which do not have an established football league. Young players will be forced to choose another national side or to give up international football completely.

Which is why I hold on to the Homegrown rule of UEFA extended into domestic leagues as a better alternative. It is much more flexible (the problems above cannot happen with the homegrown rule as the EU free employment law will somewhat prevent youth from prematurely leaving their own country in order to gain the nationality of another EU nation, and does not force the player to choose the country he is playing in, in some circumstances) and encourages clubs to raise youth instead of buying established players, because youth can be good whatever nationality they are and not competing with established foreign stars, this will truly increase national team prospects for ALL countries. This also prevents the problems of rich teams buying established stars, this is still possible under the 6+5 rule while it will eventually be lowered using the homegrown rule.

Wow, reading what I wrote again made me realize something incredible: this is not anti-England and the big leagues/clubs, it is pro-england and the big leagues/clubs! Players previously not eligible for big nations will be forced to become eligible for them (only players who are very good CAN choose whichever country they like (usually they will choose the stronger one anyway i,e, Podolski), players who aren't as good MUST choose the nation of their club team for a higher chance of playing i,e Deco) and the big nations will begin to monopolize the good players, leading to huge imbalances on the international stage as well as in the club levels, where the big clubs will buy all the established stars of the nation and dominate their league, much like Liverpool pre-premier league!

I am very strongly against this rule now, there are far too many problems with it!

This is all going a bit off topic discussiony. I don't see a need to implement it in the game or even give it as an optional extra, at FC Bayern I had an entirely German first team and that was self enforced, along with a wage cap and transfer cap, so it's easy enough to run the game as you wish.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

This is all going a bit off topic discussiony. I don't see a need to implement it in the game or even give it as an optional extra, at FC Bayern I had an entirely German first team and that was self enforced, along with a wage cap and transfer cap, so it's easy enough to run the game as you wish.

In Germany , try Norway with only 2 players over PA 160 after 5 years and then we will talk.

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

In Germany , try Norway with only 2 players over PA 160 after 5 years and then we will talk.

I can't wait to find out what we will talk about.

My point was not a brag it was just that if someone feels they would like to incorporate this in their game then it isn't particularly hard to do so. Whether there are only 2 players over 160 or not means very little, as if the rule was in the game you would have to deal with it anyway, the fact is if you want to try the rule then you will have to deal with it whether there is an abundance of talent or not.

Anyway, as you will see in my other thread about PA and CA, I don't see your situation as a stumbling block. IMO attributes are more important that PA, so whilst you may only have 2 players available with PA over 160, you may have 100 players with attributes in the right areas who will do just as good a job.

Originally posted by mlp071:

I think this conversation is best suited for off-topic forum.

OP was just asking can he change rules in game, not what everyone's opinion is on that matter.

If rule passes(i certainly hope it does), it will be in FM 10, as most likely it will be to late for FM 09.Maybe in 9.0.2 patch

And you were never able to edit league rules in FM.So gotta wait for SI to do it.

I agree with mlp071 - if you must discuss racism do it off topic. This post has descended in chaos and all mention of racism needs to be removed as it just shows how people from different countries and nationalities can get the wrong end of the stick (i refer to all nationaltities here - UK, US etc etc).

I certainly do in real life hope that the 6 + 5 rule comes in. I am a Liverpool supporter and i want to see more English players in my team but i want quality players.

I think the problem in England is that the English players, outside of the top 6 clubs, are over priced but this is purely because of a supply and demand issue.

You will find that most English clubs would love to have a full English team, but the problem is that the smaller clubs who have these home grown players know this and ask stupid money for them. Look at Aaron Ramsey as an example - 17 years old played about 20 games and about to be signed by Man Utd, Arsenal or Everton for £5m plus add ons. This is crazy.

I can understand why clubs go for the non english players because they are cheaper, more experienced and the quality is better than the english players outside the top 6 clubs.

I do believe though that the 6 + 5 rule will not happen because of this crap about freedom of employment and moving within the EU. If the English FA/PL put their foot down and said to the EU buerocrates that they will do this with our without their consent i wonder if any other countries would follow suit. I would imagine that if you managed to get the big four leagues in agreement (England, Spain, Italy and Germany) would the EU back down?

Originally posted by endtime:

Racist? Has it been changed to 6 whites & 5 people of other races?

Racism works any way and you don't even need different skin colours for that...

On topic: The rule compeletely undoubtedly contravenes EU law and will thus never be binding in the EU. SI would surely implement it for the leagues where it would apply.

If this rule is racist, then burn your passports and claim that you are citizens of the world...

Unfortunately, it's governments and not plain logic that makes the rules