Club reputation - my 2 cents

I manage Lechia Gdansk, a team in the Polish 1st league equivalent (top Polish league). League reputation is 11. Lechia Gdansk starting reputation is 3,000. Here are some comments on how league reputation works:

I have completed 11 seasons with Lechia. I have won the league 5 times (including in the past four seasons). I came in second in the four seasons before that. I have also won the domestic cup in the last 5 seasons. In the UEFA Champions League (ECL) I have, in the past four seasons, made it to the group stage twice, then into the 1st playoff round, then into the semi-finals.

Lechia reputation went from 3,000 to over 5,000 after the first few seasons, where I won the league once and was contending for the title the rest of the time. However, the reputation has stayed around 5,400 ever since, with a brief increase to around 5,600 in the past two seasons. It has since decreased back to 5,400 in my current (12th) season.

Last season, when I made it into the semi-final of the ECL, I made an experiment - I saved the game and then tried to see the effects on reputation of winning the ECL and of losing in the final. In the first case, Lechia's reputation jumped to about 6,700, in the latter, to about 6,100. When I got knocked out at the semi-final stage, my reputation stayed at around 5,600 (and eventually dropped to 5,400 - I presume this is because I sold two of my continental-reputation players). So, for a team like Lechia, winning the ECL really is huge, playing in the final is also big, but there is no big payoff for making it to the semi-final, or for getting out of the group stage. For any Polish team to accomplish that would "in real life" be quite a success, but in-game there is no increase in reputation beyond the small increases (less than 10 points) for beating high-reputation teams along the way.

Now, Lechia and a few other Polish teams have been relatively successful in the European competition over the last few seasons. Lechia has now the 18th highest coefficient for ECL and is automatically placed at the group stage. Also, since I started playing, Poland has increased the number of teams that qualify for the ECL from one to two. So, FM does recognize, at some level, that teams from a particular country are doing better, and it rewards this success with more spots in the ECL. This does not translate into higher reputation, however.

Basically, it seems to me that if only reaching the final of a European competition provides a reputation boost, then a team like Lechia (or any other European team from a smaller league) has no chance of increasing its reputation beyond a certain level, even if its performance in European competition is far above and beyond what would be expected of it.

There is also another implication of the way reputation works now. My biggest rival domestically is the Polish team Wisla. Wisla begins with 6,000 reputation, and it has won 4 titles in my game, so its reputation is above 6,000. However, its European performance is far inferior to Lechia's, its domestic cup performance likewise, and Lechia has won the title in the past 4 seasons. Still, Wisla remains the biggest Polish club, by reputation.

Finally, club wealth seems to have very little effect on reputation. Lechia has been valued at around 60-80 million in the past several seasons, which is good enough for about the 45th place on the wealthiest club list. Wisla is valued at around 40 million, the next best Polish club is around 15 million. Wealth-wise, Lechia is better than, e.g. Vfb Stuttgart, but is nowhere close reputation-wise. However, Lechia's wealth is built chiefly on player sales and prize money, not on ticket sales etc.

I hope that the dynamic league reputation in FM 2011 takes into account European success other than winning/losing in the final. Most smaller European teams will probably never make it to that stage. As I wrote above, FM 2010 already recognizes more modest ECL success (I'm guessing it's based on coefficients) and rewards a particular domestic league with more automatic slots. I think it'd be a good idea to reward even such modest success with reputation increases also - it wouldn't be unrealistic and it would allow a team from a smaller country to eventually be able to compete with the current big teams.

I agree. Its currently an imperfect system.

Hello there and welcome to the forums.

This is a big issue yes. We were asking for dynamic league reputation for ages. Finally in this years edition Football Manager 2011 the dynamic league reputation is introduced. Which means if you do these 11 seasons in FM 2011 then your reputation will rise accordingly to your achievements.

Are you sure that in the current system it is possible to get more or less CL spots per league?

It never seems to happen in my saves.....

Andyfm5, I was initially as surprised as you are now. However, it is definitely true - Poland now has 2 automatic spots in the Champions League, and it only has one when you start a new game. I assume this has to do with team coefficients rather than reputations. I have been able to drastically raise my coefficient simply by getting to higher stages in the European competition over the course of several seasons. My reputation has hovered around 5,500 for about ten seasons - so reputation can't be responsible for the increase (no other Polish team has had a drastic change in either rep or European coefficient).

I guess we will see what the dynamic league reputation brings. If, as was stated in the FM 2011 preview, it is based on actual cup "glory" (i.e. victory or maybe reaching the final) then, sadly, it won't do much for teams that play in leagues where a reputation of ~5,500 is the highest achievable without actually reaching a European cup final. Paradoxically, it would be better for me to lose the league or play poorly in the ECL group stage and drop down to the EURO Cup, where chances of success are a bit higher.

I guess if I had my way, team reputation would factor in club wealth, some reference to the club's European coefficient (just because in for a team in Europe that seems the easiest way to quantify performance in European competition) and maybe even things like size/quality of the stadium/training facilities (I do remember in previous versions players looking forward to use a club's training facilities - I haven't seen it in this version yet).

Awesome,

I guess I can look forward to another Swiss club getting straight into the CL on the back of my success then!

Although this is one of the most important new feature for some gamers, especially like those who choose to play saves such as the OP here...but I am relatively sceptical about its success initially. Miles has said in the past that it is simply too difficult to implement in previous editions but now have the ability to do so. My problem is that I can see it being difficult to test on long term games and that maybe it might not be perfect on first patch. Basically what I am saying is that it may take a few patches maybe even series before this dynamic league system is in good working order but I am looking forward to its ability. It now means I may actually manage outside of England this year and move north of the border and take the allmighty Celtic back to its former glory!

Champions League slots are allocated just like they are in real life, so Poland can easily get 4 slots if every Polish side performs admirably in the competitions. It doesn't just depend on your success in Europe but every club representing Poland. Your nations UEFA Coefficient is calculated based on the nations clubs previous 5 seasons in Europe, not sure you can see the total for nations coefficient in FM2010 but you can see all the individual clubs.

IRL this is the last year Italy will have 4 teams as Germany are set to overtake them for a bit.

januszp,

I have been asking for this for years, and in FM 2011 it will finally be introduced, but I've actually learnt to enjoy the challange.

Winning the CL from a contry with a small reputation is one of the toughest challanges on the game. My best so far is to win it from Austria, but I am currently attempting to do the same with an Icelandic team.