Using Exploits, Cheat Tactics, or The Immortal "Diablo" Search... WHY?

Just discussing threads in Tactics & Training Tips with someone via PM and it got me thinking, why do so many people seem to look for Diablo-esque "super" tactics, any exploit they can find, such as the "corner" routine in FM10? Why are the most popular threads, the ones that give the impression they're a "super" tactic?

Is it instant gratification? Is it just to play the game to win with ease? Is the game considered too difficult for some?

What is it that motivates people to want to use cheats or exploits? Not criticising, just interested to get some opinions.

Mind you, it did remind me of this little YouTube gem...

[video=youtube;cZRLpc2egoQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZRLpc2egoQ

Well of course. I avoid these things at all costs.

But some people love to win. All the time. Which is great - if you earn it. But we know that a lot don't!! Only cheating themselves. £30 is a lot to pay just to exploit an application, so I'm fine with it. Helps pay SI the money to make yearly improvements! Carry on...

Epic video.

I don't really know why people cheat tbf. I used to occasionally (when I was younger) and it got very boring very fast and you don't feel you've earned or achieved anything when you inevitably cream everyone. Part of it comes from not taking the game as seriously as you should, but it depends on what the reasons for this are. Are you not taking it seriously because you don't care, or because you don't like the game, or just because you get too frustrated trying to win without cheating?

I think a lot of people expect a tactic to, in horribly simple terms, win them the game, so they might not see a "cheat tactic" as such, because there's no real understanding of what else there is to the game. There's no way that simply putting players into certain places should guarantee results but I'm sure there are some people who can't (or choose not to) see this. On the other hand, looking at such tactics and seeing how they work can be a good way to understand how to approach the game and take advantage of (in the most innocent of ways) the way the ME functions.

Editing player attributes I can't really understand, although I will admit I have done it too in the past. I could understand maybe increasing a player's mental or hidden stats to an extent, or if you realise you've ****ed up somewhere and want to hide it, or to give your favourite youngster a slightly higher PA you think he deserves, but even so that goes against the spirit or point of the game. To simply make all your players amazing is something I can't understand the appeal of beyond saying "what will happen if..".

I think there are lots who find the game difficult, but some who find the game too hard and either can't see where they're going wrong or don't want to admit that they are, and instead of taking the logical step of finding out what they could do, want to 'get revenge on the game' or make the game play as they think it should. Perhaps also there's an element of envy or jealously that leads people to cheat.

:confused:

Sound a bit more condescending than I meant to.

Each to their own I say, and as someone up above said you pays your money to SI and that means you can do what you like. I have to admit I have in the past altered the mighty Chester to have an Arab owner and buckets of cash, the appeal didn't last long though. But to me that's a 'What-if' scenario, albeit a highly unlikely one. On the other hand super-tactics, the 'corner bug', and whatever else have never held any appeal whatsoever for me.

I think it's the "younger" players who do all the cheating and exploiting (as a few have admitted - we've all had a go). But as you get older, you prefer to win things fairly and with some degree of challenge involved. That's my theory anyway...

Awesome video, brilliant post Hershie! I too did occasionally cheat when I was younger, but that was only for one FM. Ever since I've played it as the game was intended, else what's the point. To my mind, cheating just made the game boring after a while - the challenge when playing properly is what makes the game durable imo. I've seen what the exploit is so I know I will never use it, by accident or on purpose.

I think alot of people just don't enjoy the tactics engine, and would rather an 'all in one' tactic that covers all bases then something they could throw together in the tactic creator. Understanding the FM tactics properly and using them effectively is a horrible time leech and isn't the most fun thing in the world for most people. Maybe they just don't understand when something becomes a ME exploit rather then just an effective tactic.

Whatever makes it more fun, I think most people just want to buy the worlds best players at their favourite club, not manipulate every players individual run path and all the micromanagement that you can put into that side of thing.

Forwards lose virtually header from a cross so theres no point having a wide formation. So most of the super tactics are narrow ones.

The ai does it with the magic 424 so theres nothing wrong with the human doing it. After all, the only way to win is to exploit the ai. Its just that some like the corner tactic are more obvious than others.

To be fair tactics used to be a massive time leech, but with the creator you can design a pretty good, if simple tactic in 5 minutes. For my last FM10 save I'm being Valencia but only allowed to buy spanish players. For my tactic I went to the creator and picked a formation, moved a couple of positions and then changed the individual player roles (ie central midfielder to Ball-winner) then did set-piece instructions to a set-up i've used since FM08. That's all I've done, yet after only very minor tweaking with 8 games left I've just overtaken Barce to go top of the league, so its certainly possible to be successful without taking time over tactics.

Having said that everyone who's paid for the game can play it however they like.

Whatever makes it more fun, I think most people just want to buy the worlds best players at their favourite club, not manipulate every players individual run path and all the micromanagement that you can put into that side of thing.

Do you think the Tactics Creator has helped simplify things more tactically, since it was implemented in FM10?

Although I've always been comfortable with all the slider functions, I've been exclusively using the Tactics Creator with FM10 and it saves a lot of time. I could delve deeper for sure and make finite changes with the sliders too, but I'm finding that I don't really have to, so long as I have the right players in the right roles.

I do understand what you're saying though, which is why I think adding the TC was a very good move. For one thing, it's far easier using descriptive terms, than trying to describe a player role with slider positions, when I've posted tactical suggestions.

I dont use any cheats or try to exploit the game in any way. I think the game can be slightly annoying when you do well all season and then lose at the end of the season which is crucial to your team or your progression in FM. This means that people to avoid the same happening again and to stop them becoming depressed/annoyed with the game, they will try to create or find cheats which can stop these feelings.

I wasn't aware there was a corner trick in FM10, I remember FM06 or FM07 having one. Some people maybe don't have the time to develop a tactic so want one that works immediately.

Its just the same as using FMRTE etc in my eyes.

Do you think the Tactics Creator has helped simplify things more tactically, since it was implemented in FM10?

Although I've always been comfortable with all the slider functions, I've been exclusively using the Tactics Creator with FM10 and it saves a lot of time. I could delve deeper for sure and make finite changes with the sliders too, but I'm finding that I don't really have to, so long as I have the right players in the right roles.

I do understand what you're saying though, which is why I think adding the TC was a very good move. For one thing, it's far easier using descriptive terms, than trying to describe a player role with slider positions, when I've posted tactical suggestions.

i use the tactics creator, but ask my players to cross rarely, as arsenal we are a short side, so no point whacking ball after ball into the box, it helps maintain play much better. so the ability to make individual changes on top of the tactics creator is certainly very useful

Do you think the Tactics Creator has helped simplify things more tactically, since it was implemented in FM10?

Although I've always been comfortable with all the slider functions, I've been exclusively using the Tactics Creator with FM10 and it saves a lot of time. I could delve deeper for sure and make finite changes with the sliders too, but I'm finding that I don't really have to, so long as I have the right players in the right roles.

I do understand what you're saying though, which is why I think adding the TC was a very good move. For one thing, it's far easier using descriptive terms, than trying to describe a player role with slider positions, when I've posted tactical suggestions.

I haven't been too happy with the tactics creator, I can never get it to get the best out of my players. I'm sure it works fine if you've got some of the best players in your league and stuff, but even then I can't create anything with it that puts me above other top clubs. It doesn't take me alot of adjustment from a created tactic to get things I'm satisfied with, but it's the moving of a few sliders that seem to make the difference for me lol.

Tactics is generally the hardest most complex part of the game, and for most people the least exciting, so I guess thats why people try skip over it with a downloaded tactic. It has a pretty steep learning curve imo.

The tactics creator is great, although I feel there could be more flexibility in what exactly you want a players role to be, and also in the way the team play as a whole - it doesn't make sense that it's much easier to do some things with touchline shouts than in tactics.

My current tactic is very simple and very dominant, but the creator has made it possible to get the right balance. I'd say I have one of the top 3 teams but we're comfortably the most successful in the league. I've recently been getting the hang of tactics for 'lesser' clubs and adapting to different circumstances, going along nicely with WBA in a network game after struggling previously.

There's nothing particularly complex to do, just putting logic and theory into action, aided by trial and error to an extent. If you don't know what you want your team and the players within to be doing then you won't go far.

Tactics is generally the hardest most complex part of the game, and for most people the least exciting, so I guess thats why people try skip over it with a downloaded tactic. It has a pretty steep learning curve imo.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, for me, a player of 15 years, I still find tactics that normally work well all of a sudden do not - and this is something that even now I struggle with, especially if I want a long term game. So as such my longest game has been 7 seasons, and I cannot get the tactic to last very well. Also I find that I struggle to make good use of the striker's roles, as often they seem 1 and the same, or do not suit my style. Perhaps some better explanation of the types of philosophy or playing style that certain roles suit would be useful. I think those who try their own tactics often struggle, and when you persevere for little reward it is hard to keep going, this is a game after all. Perhaps some default tactics for famous sides might make it easier, e.g. Barcelona 08-09, Galacticos, Arsenal Invincibles, Allardyce's Bolton, World Cup 2010 Germany, etc. As current defaults make no account for creative teams, or physical teams

It's perfectly possible to make very simple changes to defaults to make them suit your team though. Maybe increase or decrease freedom or go for a more fluid or rigid system depending on your team, then adjust the mentality based on your opposition, and so on.

fwiw, good team doesn't automatically equal fluid/freedom-based tactics, and I think that's something else people seem to fall down on.

My midfield and attack consists of Gourcuff, Rodwell, Ozil, Neymar, Rossi and Lukaku - our philosophy? Balanced. Let the players natural creativity and ability come through, rather than giving them licence to **** about.

Whatever makes it more fun, I think most people just want to buy the worlds best players at their favourite club, not manipulate every players individual run path and all the micromanagement that you can put into that side of thing.

Its called FIFA (manager mode).

I was playing in Holland with a formation modelled on the old Milan system and it worked wonders.

Taht's an amazing video

Different people have different ideas of fun. I have a friend who the first thing he does when he gets a new game is search the internet for cheat codes. I could never understand how could he play shooters in "god mode" or GTA with unlimited weapons, money etc. but that is what makes those games fun for him and I guess that's what matters.

The only thing i have done is edit some players stats who i know should be higher, to match their real life stat.....bar that i dont really bother

It's the genie scouting i don't understand. I don't know why people want to see all the hidden stuff, PA etc. Seems to take all of the fun out of gambling on a youngster. And tbf, if you have 20/20 scouts at a big team (because from what I can tell it seems to be the people who manage big clubs who do it mainly) they'll tell you what the craic is accurately enough.

"Cheating" in FM for me has been as a result of poorly designed or poorly explained systems.

I used to download tactics pre-TC until FM 2009 as I didn't understand the sliders.

I used to download Tugs training until I understood training better from SFraser's thread this year, and have now built my own.

I used the hidden attributes for the purpose of tutoring because player personalities were poorly explained.

I still use Geniescout for the purpose of hiring coaches, because the search/filter ability in FM is inadequate for finding and x star coach, and is completely inadequate for staff searching in general.

As for CA/PA & sale value, I have used them in odd games but I'd say that was more for short term enjoyment - although for the former it could be argued that having to reasses all my scouted players because the scouted star rating will adjust after each purcahse I make (as it's done in relation to my current squad) is partially a cause of this

Call me ignorant but can someone tell me what a diablo search is?

Call me ignorant but can someone tell me what a diablo search is?

Diablo was a tactic for CM03/04 (I think) which clearly exploited the match engine of the time and pretty much guaranteed success in the game.

The Diablo tactic was a tactical glitch in CM03/04 (if I remember correctly...), that effectively worked as a super tactic.

IMO FM is all about your own views on what wins trophies. One player might use 4-5-1, another might use 4-3-3, another might use 4-4-2. Hell someone might use 6-4-0 and they all might win the EPL. If u want to cheat then fair enough but it takes the sheen off of your achievements.

I certainly havent ever been involved in using cheat tactics or exploits but those that pay their money can do so if they wish.

I think in my early teens I was a lot more immature (as you'd expect) and I wasnt used to losing. As such I certainly turned my PC off in a rage a few times if I lost a game I expected to win. However since the age of 17 or so I havent done this and I wouldnt dream of doing anything that could remotely be called cheating nowadays.

I think as a 24 year old now I have realised that the games real enjoyment is achieving things on your own merit. The real sense of achivement (for example) is winning the league on the last day of the season legitimatly...that feeling isnt the same if you "cheat".

As a youngster I was more geared towards instant success, whereas now I play career games for fun and if anything, struggling makes the ultimate success sweeter

Sometimes winning at any cost is more fun than struggling the "right" way. I mean, there are no exploits in real football, so people find it hard to draw a parallel.

People like winning - fact. It's human nature to find an exploit and take things apart - fact. People like cheats in games - fact.

It's a game and should always be treated as such. A game like Football Manager has no correct way of playing it - there is no such thing as "Game Over" unless you relegate a team out of a playable division, and even then you can find a new job.

Me? I personally don't care about learning through a game. A game is meant to be fun. I like tinkering and hacking around with games, and pushing it to the limit. In fact, I find people who insist on ultra-realism more weird than those who love the exploits, simply because it's a game.

For those who do not know what Diablo did, it - as has been pointed out above - existed in CM03-04 and worked by using a forward arrow from a central midfielder straight up to striker's position, overloading the marking, the opposing MC did not track back, and the DC's could not handle the extra forward arriving unmarked. Resulting in easy wins often.