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433: The Real Invincibles! (3 seasons unbeaten and counting...)

Kawee

What do you think of the tactic?  

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  1. 1. What do you think of the tactic?

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Kawee

Kawee

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This is my first ever time to post a tactic on this forum, mostly because I've only just found it during FM10, and also because this is my best ever tactic. I've had more successful tactic, back when there were "diablo" tactics. This tactic, however, while being, admittedly unrealistically successful, perform the best football I've ever seen on FM. Much of it down the the newest Match Engine.

I only just realized that this is a very long tactic thread, spanning over 5 posts (and would have been more if I knew I would want to write to so much on it.) Therefore, word of warning right here: IT'S A LONG READ!

It's just that I'm writing it the way I wish most people sharing their tactics would. I like it when OP explain the reasoning behind their decisions, and what kind of football they're looking to achieve. After all, when it comes to tactics, style counts for just as much, if not more, than just results.

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The Main Features

Very Demanding: This is a very demanding tactic. I have not, and dare not, test it with weak teams yet. When I was creating and developing the tactic, I had my Arsenal team in mind, so I created a tactic that try to bring out the most in the best players in the world. This tactic is very demanding technically, mentally, and physically. So, I strongly suggest you build a world-class squad first.

Plug-and-Play: I'm happy to say that this is a plug-and-play tactic. It's the only type of tactic I've ever used in FM. In every save, I've always first develop a tactic, and then build my squad around it. I look at it as doing the hard work first, and then enjoy, what I find to be the more enjoyable aspect of FM, building and maintaining a winning squad.

Working as a unit: This tactic has the whole team working as a unit at any given point. This may sound great, but it brings us back to the first point, about how this is a demanding tactic. This means, a Riquelme is not welcomed. Although at first sight, it seems like he can handle any tactic thrown at him, this is only true in an attacking sense, but not true in a defensive aspect. Working as a unit puts a lot of emphasis on attributes like work-rate, teamwork, and stamina.

Methodical: I like to think of my team like machine. A WAR MACHINE! When everything works together well, it just works! But if one player is not doing his job well enough, it kind of ruin things for others. It's like clock-work. If one stops, the whole thing stops. Make sure there's no weakness in your team, or it's going to get ugly.

Players-dependent: This tactic was built with a "player-dependent" mentality in mind. This mean, in a lot of cases, it's heavily dependent of your players to pull it off. The reason for this is because, I find, to bring out the best in many players, you have to give them the freedom to perform. This is true in defense as well. In intentionally set the defense up so into a whole range of 1v1 battles all over the field, trusting that my players will come out on top.

Conclusion: You'll need world class players to make this work.

Defense

The Nike Defense: Like many others, I've found the Nike Defense to be the most effective. For more information, please read here

5x5 Defense system: The Nike defense is a 5 man defensive system (back 4 + defensive midfielder) So I use that as the base of my defense. The other 5 outfield players then work as another unit, higher up the pitch, therefore creating 2 units of 5 players.

High Pressing: The 2nd unit of 5 players all have their closing down at whole pitch. This pressure the opposition into making bad rushed passes, which allow my back 5 to clean up quite easily most of the time. I also find it to be an effective way to have my attackers track runs from defense, especially the fullbacks. If they don't, my fullbacks will get overload.

Tight Marking: The defense and the midfield are all on tight "man" marking system. This is my preference because I find, when you have the right personel, it's the most effective way. It means whoever has the ball is always under pressure, and in a lot of cases, facing their own goal. It also means that there's no "open" target to pass to. This require great defensive abilities since teams with great movement off the ball does make it difficult to deal with, but that's why I said it's a demanding tactic!

Aggressive tackling: A lot of the players, through preset tactics and in-game OI, will be doing some hard tackling most of the time. I find that it's the most effective way of winning the ball back, and also pressing the player with the ball from doing anything comfortably. However, even with great defensive players, you will concede quite a few fouls.

High D-line: This again ties in with aggressive pressure of the opposition. By staying compact, there's less space for the opposition to work with, and there's less space for players in different zones to cover. Just make sure your back-4 got some pace, and good positioning.

Conclusion: What you get is a very tight compact defensive body, with the 5 front players hunting in packs like wolves, and the back 5 providing a solid base.

Attack

Very Wide: I put width to the maximum because that help stretch the defense, thus creating more openings for runs and passes.

Slow short passing: The slow short passing game ensures high possession, and that the chances created a pretty good. The speed is usually "rushed up" in the final third when the final ball is being played.

Attack through the middle: I chose to attack down the middle because that's where my target man and playmaker is. Passing down the middle, with runners coming from the side (and in some cases from deeper positions) is a great way to create scoring chances.

False 9: Took me a while to get the False Nine working properly, but now that it does, it's a thing of beauty. Without a doubt, the linchpin of the attack. He's always on the move, dropping deep and occasionally going wide to pick up the ball, hold it, and then release a killer pass. He also gets his fair share of goals, but will in a lot of cases, depend on his own individual abilities.

The Holy Pentagon: Without a doubt, my favourite feature of this tactic. 5 positions in this tactic consistently pose scoring threat. The striker, the two wingers, and two of the three central midfielders. The striker is the highest man up front so he's always in with a chance, mostly through crosses and individual runs. When the the striker or the main play-maker (the MCd) has the ball, the two wingers consistently make forward runs to score goals. One of the two attacking midfielders consistently make forward runs, from a deep position, which is very hard to track (beyond the striker sometimes,) making it looks like a two striker formation.

5x5 Attack system: The Holy Pentagon are always making forward runs, and swapping positions, so the other 5 players need to provide a solid base for them to work on. The MCd, who the playmaker, always provide an option in the middle of the park, spraying forward passes. The full-backs do not push up very often, usually staying in line with the MCd, to provide a pass back for the winger, and to help change the direction of the attack. The two central defenders stay back to restart an attack if needed, like in most tactics. When losing possession, the these five provide a pretty solid base to fall back on.

Freedom of movement: The front three are all given "free roles" and the two wingers also swap positions. The latter is mostly to give the attack different attacking dimension throughout the game as the wingers, depending on their favoured foot, take turns running to the byline or cutting in.

Conclusion: A very fluid attack, based around a solid spine. With 5 players posing scoring threat, you will take advantage of any weakness in the defense, and if there is no weakness, the constant movement, and if needed, the individual skills will make an opening.

Results

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Download Tactic

Alternative download link click here (courtesy of Somedevil)

***NOTE***

My set-piece setup is absolutely average. I'm still looking for a set up that can grab me 10+ goals a season, but I'm failing. I strongly suggest you change it to something better if you have even the slightest idea about set-piece settings.

***NOTE***

If you wish to post a picture in this thread, please opt of posting a link to the picture or a thumbnail instead. Unless of course your picture is very small already. I want to keep my thread neat-ish. Thank you.

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Kawee

Kawee

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The Defense

The Center Back

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As you can see, very much you "average" world-class CB. The high passing is an unnecessary bonus, though, since the defenders will be playing a very safe game. However, notice the relatively high speed (15 pace & acc.) Try to make sure you have fast defenders because you'll be playing a very high D-line.

*NOTE*

The two CBs have different mentality setting as part of the Nike defense, but everything else is exactly the same.

The Fullbacks

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The full-back is a defense first type. With so many attacking talent (5 positions to be exact) in the side already, the fullback does not need to be the ultra wing-back Daniel Alves type. Sacrifice attacking prowess for defensive solidity. You have enough firepower already. As you can see, my regen FB is very good defensively. Even C. Ronaldo will have a hard time getting past him. His limited attack abilities is not a concern since I'm not asking much from him at all. He doesn't push forward, but stay in-line with the MCd to cover the midfield area, and provide a passback option for the attackers. He doesn't need to be a great crosser because I find that deep cross from fullbacks aren't very effective anyway. He just need to make simple passes forward, let the attackers do their thing, and provide cover for when attacks break down.

Conclusion: Pretty much your average Nike Defense, but with far greater emphasis on the full-backs' defensive abilities. The team is always playing such risky football that 4 world-class defenders will be required. Leave the attacking to the specialists up front.

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Kawee

Kawee

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Midfield

MCd (Playmaker)

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The MCd is the main playmaker and also the defensive midfielder of the team. His job, in attack, is to pick up the ball from defense and spray it forward. His job in defense is to just sit in front of the defense, as part of the Nike Defense. The other two central midfielders will be pressing very aggressively so he'll be the one who's always there holding the central midfield together. Jack Rodwell is really, almost perfect for this role. My only gripe is his relatively low creativity at 14.

MCs

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The most all-rounded player in the team. Although he's described as a "ball-winning midfielder" he plays more like a box-to-box, which is exactly what I want. He must be all-action. Capable of harassing the opponents and winning tackles, and at the same time make forward runs, often beyond the striker, into scoring positions. He does not, however, need to be all that great at passing since he won't be holding onto the ball very long, opting instead to give it to more creative players (the front three or the other two CMs.) For a new save, I cannot recommend anyone higher than Fellaini. That man was an absolute legend for my team, dominating the midfield, and scoring goals. In fact, one of the thing I miss most, which this regen, Chicao (who is also ridiculously good) cannot give me is Fellaini's aerial presence. It was most useful both in attack and in defense.

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Kawee

Kawee

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Midfield (continued)

MCa

mcasetting.png

mcaexample.png

This is the attacking midfielder in the midfield trio. His job is to create and score goals. Simple as that, really. I chose Hamsik over Cesc to represent this position because he's a better role model, with his scoring prowess, although both do well enough. This position takes turn with the ball-winning midfielder to push forward.

Conclusion: Each midfielder has dual-duties.

MCd: Create & Defend

MCs: Defend & Attack

MCa: Create & Attack

This provide great balance in the midfield IMHO. There are always at least two specialists on each duty, with the extra man also pulling his weight (ie. MCa during defense, and MCs creating chances.) Even the MCd gets to score goals from long range because there are so many players up front, it usually leave him open for long range rebounds. With a great defensive midfielder, an energetic ball-winner, and an extra man in midfield forming the midfield trio means you will probably dominate the central midfield most of the time. If not, then at least you won't get dominated. With two playmakers, one taking a very deep position, and another taking a position far higher up the pitch, means you'll be creating chances from 10 yards out to 40 yards out. The scoring midfielders making forward runs from different positions is also a well thought out plan. The MCa comes from the left side of the striker, and from a much higher position. The MCs comes from the right side of the striker and from a deeper position. This makes it very difficult for the opposition to track their runs.

Attack

Winger

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This is the winger. The winger, in this case, merely indicates the position of the player, but not the style. His style, as you can see is "inside forward" and therefore I count the two wingers as part of the attack and not the midfield. Thus calling this tactic a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-5-1.

If you want to know what the ideal player for this position looks like just take a look at my Mario Balotelli... He is an absolute beast! There is nothing more I can ask of a player in this position. He is hands down, my favourite player in the team, and the game. If I'm going to be very picky, I would ask for higher teamwork attribute, but just look at his stats. It tells you everything you need to know.

The instruction is your typical inside forward, with one significant change: Swap position. I have my two wingers swap positions (the instruction is given to both.) This has to do with the favoured foot dimension. You have to understand that when I first developed the tactic, I had Walcott and Balotelli with me as my two best wingers (Walcott has since asked to move to Man City for 40m, but Balotelli is NOT FOR SALE.) So I decided to have them swap position throughout the game so that they can take turn being on the right, getting to the byline with their favourite foot, and being on the left, cutting into the favourite right foot. It has worked wonders, as you can see by the stats. With different combination of wingers, the opposition fullbacks will have to, throughout the game, adapt to different types of thread. Personally, I never go for a winger who's weaker foot attribute is less than "Reasonable."

Notice also that I have their crossing down to "Rarely." This is because after trying to hard to get crossing done properly, I failed. Even with combination of Lukaku and Balotelli was disappointing. Since then, I just ask them not to cross, and run towards goal instead.

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Kawee

Kawee

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Attack (Continued)

Striker (Target man/To Feet)

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stexample.png

This is my striker. My target man. The linchpin of my attack. The attack revolves around him. Therefore he needs to truly be a "Complete Forward." Other than scoring goals, he needs to be able to create chances for himself and for others. Interestingly, speed (pace & acceleration) is not that useful for this position, so that should really help you find the type of striker you need. Strikers who aren't fast, are usually very good at other aspects of their game.

Looking at Lukaku, he's really quite perfect. He's a beast, which makes him most difficult to handle. The combination of his attributes mean he can score goals in all sorts of situation, create his own scoring chances, and also for others. Passing, I find, is not the most important attribute when it comes to creating chances for others. Probably because the passes aren't difficult per se, but it's being able to spot the opening that counts. The most important attributes, IMHO, are creativity, teamwork, and anticipation.

In terms of instructions, I have him with pretty low mentality and on free role so that he would drop deep and push wide to pick up the ball, rather than be isolated up front. This also creates space behind him for the MCs and the Wingers to run in behind, especially if one of the CB follows him. If they don't, he can turn around and run at them, which is a real problem as well. Especially when he goes wide, you see some very good movement from the other players to fill the void in the middle. His HUB instruction helps bring other players into play.

Conclusion: The attack consists of three goal-scorers. All three must not only be capable of finishing chances, but also creating their own chances. The striker when getting the ball in or near the box (usually when he receives a pass from the winger) should in many cases be good enough to beat the last defender and create a scoring chance for himself. The wingers, as you can see from the stats, will be dribbling all game long. When the striker drops deep to pick up the ball (usually when he picks the ball up from central midfield,) the wingers will run in behind the striker, and the formation sometimes looks a whole lot like 4-3-1-2. The only difference is the movement is coming from different directions, which makes it very difficult to handle.

But as I said in the OP, this tactic has 5 goal-scoring positions. Sometimes, when the striker gets the ball, and is looking to play someone in, the wingers stay out wide, drawing the fullback with them, creating a massive space in the middle for one of the MC to run forward into space for a scoring chance.

Tweaks

I know I said that this is a plug-and-play, and it is. In most games, you won't need to change a thing. But sometimes you do. FM is a complicated game, you always need to be on your toes. I am, unfortunately, no tactic expert. My in-game changes are mostly instinct based than anything. Here are a few things I do:

  1. When facing a single complete striker (eg. Ibrahimovic at Barcelona) I manually man-mark him with my "stopper" CB (the one with higher mentality) and I change my "cover" CB marking instruction to "Loose/Zonal." I haven't had to do this often, but I think it helps me create a sweeper-like system, which can prove useful is the striker consistently makes life difficult for my other CB.
  2. When needing a goal I throw in an extra striker. I've done this plenty of times, usually when I'm dominating but can't seem to find a way through, or when I'm behind and in need of a goal. The striker either replaces the MCa or the MCs, depending on who was performing worse, thus maintaining the balance of 5 attacking players.The striker goes up next to my target man on the side of the midfielder he just replaced, and I use him as a poacher. This way, the opposition if forced back as near to their own goal as possible, giving my target man more space to work with when he drops deep, and it also means that whoever has the ball, be it the target man, the midfielders, or the wingers, they'll always have a target to aim for in the box.
  3. When I'm not sure what's wrong, I tend to just go the opposite way of what I'm doing. The tactic is mainly slow short-passing game, but if I'm not sure what else to do, I change it to high pace direct passing football. Other chances like width and D-line can also be made, if you think it's going to work. This combination can be useful when playing away against other big teams, and you're looking to counter-attack.

But I have to repeat, I'm no genius when it come to this aspect of the game. But I do know my tactic inside out, and I have tested it, along with the tweaks for many seasons with great success. Hope that'll help you guys a bit.

THE END

I would like to give a shout out to SFraser for his training regime, which is the best regime I've seen in FM10. All the great players you see me posting here are only possible because of it. Cheers.

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Collzy

Collzy

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I'm intrigued.. remarkable results there and may give this a try with the current arsenal set up, will obviously need to bring in a few names though! will post feedback later on.

as for a good set up from set pieces http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/198823-A-Simple-and-Effective-Corner-Routine-Defending-and-Attacking-%28No-Bug%29 that's quite a good one, which doesn't involve a bug. however that's only corners, i'm not sure about indirect free kicks..

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Kawee

Kawee

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Will u try to test with the original Arsenal squad because all the regens' stats are simply too good to be real. Thanks

Unfortunately, I no longer have the time. Uni is about to start so I'm spending my whatever little time left to finish this thread. However, I began working on this tactic since day one on my Arsenal save, but it took years for me to get it to the level it is today. It also helped that by then I had the type of players I want, they're well tuned to the tactics, and the squad is "willing to die for each other" apparently.

I would like to make it clear though that it is possible to use this tactic with the original Arsenal squad (with some additions) but of course with a not-as-good as a result. Arsenal do have some world-class players. RvP, for example, is a classic and perfect case of the False Nine.

Please keep in mind that by the time I "perfected" (used very liberally) this tactic, a lot of the original squad was already too old, or simply not good enough. I would like to refer back to my OP. I clearly stated that this is a very demanding tactic best suited for a world-class squad. It was built with a world-class squad in mind, to bring out the best in the best players in the world. I enjoy the squad building aspect of the game, so I created a tactic that allows me to enjoy the most of this aspect. It should not be judged otherwise, although if you want to experiment it at different levels, be my guest. It's why I'm sharing the tactic!

Cheers!

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Kawee

Kawee

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good tactic mate! just win a match with Czech Rep against Spain for Euro 2012 qualifier. As you said this tactic meant for world class players, I was wondering what is your tweak if u losing 1-0 or just left it as is it & waiting them to score?

I do make a few tweaks. I think we all know that there's no way I could have achieved this result without making no changes at all. In-game tweaks are very important. I'll put it up on my last post once I'm done writing about the striker.

Cheers.

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Kawee

Kawee

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well done mate...do you use OI?

I do, but I let my Ass. Manager do them. I've had Pat Rice, Baldini, and Tassotti as my right-hand man in this save, and I have the say Tassotti is really my favourite of the lot.

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Kawee

Kawee

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can you upload your amazing tactic please???

Although I did go quite over-kill with the explanation to the point where you can actually create a carbon copy of my tactic, you will find that at the bottom of the OP there's a link to download the tactic. Click on the "Download Tactic" and it'll take you there.

Cheers.

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S!lver

S!lver

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Really nice opening post(s), it makes me curious about your tactic.

I usually don't try tactics with "you need world star to make it effective" sentences in the description, but I'll give it a shot and report back.

EDIT : The Holy Pentagone is a great name ^_^

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S!lver

S!lver

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Here is my first report :

- > I like the ultra wide play + passing through the middle idea. It creates a lot of space between the lines in which the 2 'offensive' MC's can freely run. + the 2 inside wingers are doing a great job running between the side and central defender like that :

Opposite DR --- your winger ----- Opposite DC --- your Striker ---- opposite DC ----- your winger ----- opposite DL

------------------------- î ----------------------------------------------------------------------- î --------------------------------

---------------------- MC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MC ------------------------------

Did you try the opposite ? I mean playing the same formation but extremly tight, with wingers playing on the side line.

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TacticalGenius

TacticalGenius

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it makes me curious about your tactic.

I usually don't try tactics with "you need world star to make it effective" sentences in the description

I don't use any tactics other than my own, but I'm also wary of the 'needs world class players' line, as imo, the best tactics work with players who look average-good, but are of the right mentality/personality and have decent stats in key areas for their role. For example, I'm Athletic Club, won 3 La Ligas, 2 UCL's, 2 Spanish Supercopa, 1 FIFA CWC, 1 UEFA Supercup and 1 Copa del rey in 4 seasons, and reached 1 Europa league final, 1 UCL final, 2 Copa del Rey finals and a Spanish Supercopa in those 4 seasons too, using the starting squad and only added Ander, Ruffier, Azpilicueta and Monreal over the 4 years, and no-one at all in the first season. I have only 2 wonderkids, Muniain and a regen CB that came through the academy, who's only 18 still atm. So if you need 'world class players' my instant thought is that the tactic isn't all that good, and it is actually the players doing all the work with their individual brilliance...

Still, good luck :)

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Barkermush

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Hi, i like your post on this tactic, very thorough. :thup:

I've been trying out your tactic for a few games, and I was wondering, can i stop the left and right wingers swapping position, or is that a vital part of the formation?

As i don't really like any of my players swapping position noramally, and my right winger can't play on the left wing what so ever, and my left winger can't play on the right wing what so ever.

They are both struggling when they switch positions, but they are fine in their natural position, it's just when they swap positions during the match when they struggle...

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Kawee

Kawee

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Here is my first report :

- > I like the ultra wide play + passing through the middle idea. It creates a lot of space between the lines in which the 2 'offensive' MC's can freely run. + the 2 inside wingers are doing a great job running between the side and central defender like that :

Opposite DR --- your winger ----- Opposite DC --- your Striker ---- opposite DC ----- your winger ----- opposite DL

------------------------- î ----------------------------------------------------------------------- î --------------------------------

---------------------- MC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MC ------------------------------

Did you try the opposite ? I mean playing the same formation but extremly tight, with wingers playing on the side line.

It's working exactly how I visioned it. The striker is usually marked by one of the CB, thus creating a gap in either the left-center or the right-center area (the area between the defender doing the marking and the fullback of that side.) Usually the wingers make the forward runs since they're closest to it, and they've been given aggressive forward runs instructions. However, as you might notice, sometimes the wingers remain wide pulling the fullback further away creating gaps for one of the MC to make the forward run. The fact that you don't know where the threat is going to come from was tailored made by this tactic.

I wouldn't try what you suggested for a couple reasons. Playing narrow means there's less space to work with. If you have the wingers "hug touchline" then that's really what they'll do. It'll drag away the full-back, which helps create space in the middle. However, that's how it's going to turn out most of the time as well. It's too predictable for my liking, and a waste of so much talent and versatility in the team. With the current set up, you never know if the winger is going to make the run himself, or drag the fullback wide for one of your MC to make the forward run.

I don't use any tactics other than my own, but I'm also wary of the 'needs world class players' line, as imo, the best tactics work with players who look average-good, but are of the right mentality/personality and have decent stats in key areas for their role. For example, I'm Athletic Club, won 3 La Ligas, 2 UCL's, 2 Spanish Supercopa, 1 FIFA CWC, 1 UEFA Supercup and 1 Copa del rey in 4 seasons, and reached 1 Europa league final, 1 UCL final, 2 Copa del Rey finals and a Spanish Supercopa in those 4 seasons too, using the starting squad and only added Ander, Ruffier, Azpilicueta and Monreal over the 4 years, and no-one at all in the first season. I have only 2 wonderkids, Muniain and a regen CB that came through the academy, who's only 18 still atm. So if you need 'world class players' my instant thought is that the tactic isn't all that good, and it is actually the players doing all the work with their individual brilliance...

Still, good luck :)

I totally understand what you're saying. I've never used other people's tactics either, although I do look around for ideas and read up on how things work (found this forum not long ago.)

I congratulate you on your success, and acknowledge the fact that these things can be done. I've done something similar with Everton (that's how I fell in love with Rodwell and Fellaini) and also Fiorentina. However, I could not have achieved the results I posted here with a UEFA Cup quality squad. 38Games 34Wins 4 Draws 118GF 13GA. Obviously, the better your players the better the results. There is no denying that. But even the results is not my biggest concern. It's the style of football.

When I won the league with Everton in the first season, I was really limited with what I can do. I was forced to play a certain type of football, and I only had one or two dimensions to the team, due to the fact that a lot of Everton players are quite one dimensional expecially the strikers. So yeah, I won using them, but it's not the type of football I wanted.

So when I started developing this tactic, I was building it with a football vision in mind. I can't be restricted by the players. The sky must be the limit otherwise I can't develop the tactic freely. I had reasons behind every decision I made regarding this tactic, as you can read in my posts, and they would not have worked using less than stellar players. There's different route to success, but this is the only path to the type of football I want to see my team play that I've figured out so far. So you see, it's not just about the results, it's about the style as well. I wanted a Ultra dimensional attack I need ultra dimensional players. ETC.

Hope that clears the air a bit ;)

Hi, i like your post on this tactic, very thorough. :thup:

I've been trying out your tactic for a few games, and I was wondering, can i stop the left and right wingers swapping position, or is that a vital part of the formation?

As i don't really like any of my players swapping position noramally, and my right winger can't play on the left wing what so ever, and my left winger can't play on the right wing what so ever.

They are both struggling when they switch positions, but they are fine in their natural position, it's just when they swap positions during the match when they struggle...

I really want you to go back and read my post on the wingers again. I outlined my reasoning behind my decision to swap their positions. It's all about the wingers' using their favoured foot in certain ways. By swapping positions the fullbacks face different types of attacks from byline crossings to cut-ins, making it harder to defend. You have to understand that when I was developing the tactic, I had the likes of Walcott, Balotelli, and Arshavin in my ranks so I wanted to bring out the best in each of them.

However, I wouldn't say it's a vital part of the tactic. If your wingers are doing well sticking to their side, which there is no reason why they should be performing poorly, then take away the instruction.

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I just want to say that I would really appreciate it if you all read my opening posts because I put a lot of work into it, and I believe it covers 90% of what you need to know already. It would save us all a lot of time, rather than the constant Q&A. I spent a lot of time explaining my almost every decision so you understand what I'm trying to achieve. For example, if you don't like the target man drifting wide, at least you'll understand why I did it, and if you take away the instruction, what will happen, then you can make an informed decision on whether you want to keep it. If you have any suggestion to make, PLEASE PLEASE do not hesitate to because I'm always looking for improvements in my tactic, as long as it doesn't compromise the football style.

Cheers.

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S!lver

S!lver

Posted
Posted

It wasn't a suggestion, just a question.

As you've explored one way (playing wide, cut inside, pass middle), I was just wondering if you tried the opposite (playing narrow, hugging line, pass down both flanks).

It'll result in something pretty "similar", as trying to outnumber the defense.

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Barkermush

Barkermush

Posted
Posted

I really want you to go back and read my post on the wingers again. I outlined my reasoning behind my decision to swap their positions. It's all about the wingers' using their favoured foot in certain ways. By swapping positions the fullbacks face different types of attacks from byline crossings to cut-ins, making it harder to defend. You have to understand that when I was developing the tactic, I had the likes of Walcott, Balotelli, and Arshavin in my ranks so I wanted to bring out the best in each of them.

However, I wouldn't say it's a vital part of the tactic. If your wingers are doing well sticking to their side, which there is no reason why they should be performing poorly, then take away the instruction.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I just want to say that I would really appreciate it if you all read my opening posts because I put a lot of work into it, and I believe it covers 90% of what you need to know already. It would save us all a lot of time, rather than the constant Q&A. I spent a lot of time explaining my almost every decision so you understand what I'm trying to achieve. For example, if you don't like the target man drifting wide, at least you'll understand why I did it, and if you take away the instruction, what will happen, then you can make an informed decision on whether you want to keep it. If you have any suggestion to make, PLEASE PLEASE do not hesitate to because I'm always looking for improvements in my tactic, as long as it doesn't compromise the football style.

Cheers.

Ok, i will try without the swapping wingers and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply. :thup:

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TacticalGenius

TacticalGenius

Posted
Posted
I totally understand what you're saying. I've never used other people's tactics either, although I do look around for ideas and read up on how things work (found this forum not long ago.)

I congratulate you on your success, and acknowledge the fact that these things can be done. I've done something similar with Everton (that's how I fell in love with Rodwell and Fellaini) and also Fiorentina. However, I could not have achieved the results I posted here with a UEFA Cup quality squad. 38Games 34Wins 4 Draws 118GF 13GA. Obviously, the better your players the better the results. There is no denying that. But even the results is not my biggest concern. It's the style of football.

When I won the league with Everton in the first season, I was really limited with what I can do. I was forced to play a certain type of football, and I only had one or two dimensions to the team, due to the fact that a lot of Everton players are quite one dimensional expecially the strikers. So yeah, I won using them, but it's not the type of football I wanted.

So when I started developing this tactic, I was building it with a football vision in mind. I can't be restricted by the players. The sky must be the limit otherwise I can't develop the tactic freely. I had reasons behind every decision I made regarding this tactic, as you can read in my posts, and they would not have worked using less than stellar players. There's different route to success, but this is the only path to the type of football I want to see my team play that I've figured out so far. So you see, it's not just about the results, it's about the style as well. I wanted a Ultra dimensional attack I need ultra dimensional players. ETC.

Hope that clears the air a bit ;)

Yeah, that makes sense. My Athletic side plays nice football, but it isn't stunning or anything. But being limited to Basque players, it's the best I can hope for and still be successful... Conceded 9 goals in one season in La Liga, while only Real Madrid scored more goals than we did, so I must have got something right...

All the best with this though, and the OP's are fantastically detailed :)

TG

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Kawee

Kawee

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"I have not, and dare not, test it with weak teams yet"

I can give it a go? :D

Please go ahead, it's why I'm sharing it. It's not that I don't think it'll yield results, I'm just convinced the football will be nowhere near as good because, especially in the attacking third, a lot is being asked of the players, and they might mess up doing things they're not so good doing.

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Kawee

Kawee

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i think it work well with a decent team. i just qualified czech rep to 2012 euro. my group qualifier had spain and scotland. no lost through out the qualifying and top the group as well. maybe sheer luck because of petr cech...not sure

Great to hear you doing well. I know the results are good, but I have to ask, is the football "good?" I mean, is it exciting fun to watch football? Because really, that is the main objective of this tactic. There's countless of winning tactics out there, but I tailored made this tactic to produce the type of football that I like, and hopefully others will enjoy watching as well.

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Mike Dodgson

Mike Dodgson

Posted
Posted

Kawee - congratulations on a simply brilliant tactic.

I'm 24 games into my 1st season as Spurs and I'm top - and I'm in the Second Round Knockout of the Champions League about to play... Barcelona!

I think it's essential you have the players to fit the tactic - especially the wingers/forwards. They make the difference - I have modric & dentinho - both can play either flank and have decent finishing & pace.

Again, with the back 4 - make sure they have high pace, along with positioning, marking & tackling.

My team is:

GK: Gomes

DR: Bhoularouz

DC: King

DC: Bassong

DL: Criscito

MCs: Martinez

MCd: Huddleston

MCa: Van der Vaart

AML: Modric

AMR: Deninhp

FC: Dzeko

Will upload screens when I get to the end of the season!

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Kawee

Kawee

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***UPDATE***

I've added a Poll. This is for those of you who tried out my tactic. Playing good football is the most important aim of this tactic so hopefully it's working out for others as it has worked out for me. Written feedback would be most appreciated as well, especially if there are some things you don't like about the tactic. Thank you.

Cheers.

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Kawee

Kawee

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@Mike Dodgson: Good to see you enjoying the tactic. Your players suit my tactic down to the ground. Dzeko is a favourite player of mine as well. He did a better job for me than RvP even! That is a solid-looking back-4, very much 4 defensive experts. Could you give me some feedback as to whether your team is playing good entertaining football or not? It's very important for me to find out if this tactic produces good football for others as well or not. Cheers.

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Mike Dodgson

Mike Dodgson

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Absolutely yes it does - I've just beat Barcelona 3-2 in the first leg in the Champions League - one of the goals I scored was absolutely stunning!

You've created a masterpiece... Spurs top of the league, beating Barcelona... in the First season?!

If you've aimed to produce entertaining football you've certainly done that - as well as being tight at the back - along with getting results... can't get much better than that!

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Kawee

Kawee

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Kawee:

What pitch size do you use?

He said about the team instructions, "I put width to the maximum because that help stretch the defense". I would say that's a pretty big clue.

Yeah, I thought the maximum width thing was quite a hint. But I understand, there are probably a few tactics out there employing max width in narrow fields or narrow width in wide fields. I should have made it clear.

Just to confirm: I use the widest field dimension possible. :o

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carl stanny

carl stanny

Posted
Posted

What a tactic you have made here. I think you may have talked it down by saying you need world class players. I tested with Everton and as you can see from my pictures below I finished 2nd in my

first season. The football is brilliant and it gets results too which is why the tactic is so good. I bought Kevin Davies for 3.5m and he scored 25 goals and was 3rd top scorer in the league. I would not

say he is world class. I just think you need the players attributes you have mentioned. Obviously with smaller teams you have to go for players with as many high attributes as you can get with the

money available.

In my first season I lost the league by 2 points to Chelsea and I only lost 6 games all season in the league. I scored 84 goals and let in 30 goals over the season so am very happy with the results!!

I also got to the FA cup final but got beat 4-2 in extra time by Arsenal. I have posted a few pics below of the league table, good results and good players.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3949/englishpremierleague.jpg

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/9272/7diniyarbilyaletdinov.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6645/10mikelarteta.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5010/25marouanefellaini.png

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2356/32kevindavies.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4200/evertonvarsenal.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7906/evertonvliverpool.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5996/westbromveverton.jpg

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