Will B Team issues be resolved for FM11?

For a long time now B teams in the FM series have had numerous changes in order to equate them to real life however some things are still very wrong and I am wondering if they will be fixed for FM11 because otherwise the game (for those using B teams) will simply frustrate them once more.

Issues are as follow -

- First Team Manager (when you are that manager) cannot name B team Manager or sack him.

- B team manager cannot request players from First Team and can only send or receive from C team (if there is one)

- The B Team always receive news items about debt, even though wages are paid by the club as a whole (Including First team)

- B team seems to sign strange players without consulting First Team manager (when you are that manager), there is an option to stop sales and purchases in option screen but cannot there not be interaction instead?

- Chairman leaving does not seem to affect B team only First Team, both managers should be in danger of sack or offered new contract when change happens (as IRL)

If anyone has any more issues that they notice then please state these as I would like (if possible) for SI to try to fix these issues for FM11. I understand this does not affect those who only manage non B team nations but many of us move to a nation with a B team at some stage in a career save. So please try to be helpful on this.

A minor point but the Media Prediction for B Teams is always the same as the Parent club.

Good point, Sheffield Sunday. Its not a minor point, it weighs on your job status as bad results will usually result in the sack even though the role of a B team is usually to produce players for the first team and not win titles.

For a long time now B teams in the FM series have had numerous changes in order to equate them to real life however some things are still very wrong and I am wondering if they will be fixed for FM11 because otherwise the game (for those using B teams) will simply frustrate them once more.

Issues are as follow -

- First Team Manager (when you are that manager) cannot name B team Manager or sack him.

- B team manager cannot request players from First Team and can only send or receive from C team (if there is one)

- The B Team always receive news items about debt, even though wages are paid by the club as a whole (Including First team)

- B team seems to sign strange players without consulting First Team manager (when you are that manager), there is an option to stop sales and purchases in option screen but cannot there not be interaction instead?

- Chairman leaving does not seem to affect B team only First Team, both managers should be in danger of sack or offered new contract when change happens (as IRL)

If anyone has any more issues that they notice then please state these as I would like (if possible) for SI to try to fix these issues for FM11. I understand this does not affect those who only manage non B team nations but many of us move to a nation with a B team at some stage in a career save. So please try to be helpful on this.

These are important issues but not the only ones:

- B-teams don't use A-team coaching staff. In my current save all my 1st team coaches are on light workloads but 2 coaches are all that the reserves get.

- Senior managers have zero say over which tactical shape is trained. With the apparent focus of FM11 on training shapes, this cannot continue

- Commenting on your own B-team manager to the press can give negative PR results in your senior squad

- the temporary delegation option to the B-team (to get match fit, for example) is disabled even when league rules allow such a move

I am not sure what the reason was to change the rules for B-teams so much, but let's have a look at how teams in Spain's La Liga set up their system, a country where FM uses B-teams instead of reserve teams.

The most important difference to English reserve teams that I can see comes from the league rules. In Spain the B-teams play in the same league pyramid as the senior team and can actually be promoted up to second division (as Barcelona's B-team was last season). This obviously means that teams have some interest not to see their B-teams bleed out too much because there is a risk of the B-team getting relegated. This in turn brings down the quality of the matches and hence (like in FM) the speed of improvement of players. Other league rules: Only players who have played 10 or less games in the senior team can play in B-team matches (according to FM, I didn't verify this), players must be U23 and have Euro nationalities.

Beyond this difference, B-teams in Spain fulfil the same function as reserve teams in England. The Spanish youth-to-senior programs (called "canteras" or quarries) consist of various youth teams (depending on age), the B-team and the senior squad. The "cantera" system is considered amongst the most successful programs in the world. Especially Barcelona's system is probably the best in the world, with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro Rodriguez, Puyol, Piqué, Fabregas and Valdes amongst its graduates. And those were only the players from the 2010 Spanish world champion team and hence didn't list Messi, amongst others. The objective of the whole system is to provide players for the senior squad. Hence, this manager has the final say on which players get promoted to the next level, in consultation with the coaching staff and club management.

The progression currently seen in FM is incredibly inconsistent: The manager has complete control over all things U19. U19s (can) use the best coaching available, the manager can tailor their training schedules and even decide on an exact tactic for match day (and take over on match day!). When the player leaves the u19 team he drops off the radar almost completely. You can't influence anything about them any longer other than a) changing contracts including selling them, b) get them tutored and c) send them to another affiliate or senior squad.

This is all a bit messed up. The idea that Guardiola or Mourinho personally manage their U19 teams on match day is silly (barring a marketing event or such). The board would never allow the manager to disable their B-teams ability to compete reasonably (e.g. by selling all players). Managers of course have a weighty word in how their talents are nurtured between the ages of 19 and 23. Players do not enjoy world class coaching at 19 and mediocre coaching at 20 as is currently the case.

In my opinion the setup should be more like this:

How about this:

B-teams should be treated the same as reserve teams, except:

- B-teams cannot be managed on match day

- B-teams should have their bonusses set independently from the 1st team by the board (are the reserves players in England really getting the same bonusses as the senior squad players???)

- B-team managers can decide the training schedues of the players in their squad while using the 1st team infrastructure (training facilities and coaches). I am unsure about this last point, but it seems quite realistic.

I could even see that B-team managers get a wage budget and a transfer budget at the beginning of the season decided by the chairman (or proposed by the 1st team manager?), similar to 1st team managers, and can decide within this budget to buy players. 1st team managers could

- loan players from the senior squad (within the limitations of league rules)

- Introduce a tagging option where senior managers can tag players in the B-team as "no-sells", "prioritise play time" and "no future in the A-team", amongst others. The chairman in his glory could intervene as he likes.

I think this would put the B-teams into a much more realistic framework. Surely the B-team manager has some liberties, but in the end the B team is a means to an end, and the senior manager should be able to influence heavily how his "quarry" produces the goods.

B-teams should be treated the same as reserve teams, except:

- B-teams cannot be managed on match day

- B-teams should have their bonusses set independently from the 1st team by the board (are the reserves players in England really getting the same bonusses as the senior squad players???)

- B-team managers can decide the training schedues of the players in their squad while using the 1st team infrastructure (training facilities and coaches). I am unsure about this last point, but it seems quite realistic.

I could even see that B-team managers get a wage budget and a transfer budget at the beginning of the season decided by the chairman (or proposed by the 1st team manager?), similar to 1st team managers, and can decide within this budget to buy players. 1st team managers could

- loan players from the senior squad (within the limitations of league rules)

- Introduce a tagging option where senior managers can tag players in the B-team as "no-sells", "prioritise play time" and "no future in the A-team", amongst others. The chairman in his glory could intervene as he likes.

I think this would put the B-teams into a much more realistic framework. Surely the B-team manager has some liberties, but in the end the B team is a means to an end, and the senior manager should be able to influence heavily how his "quarry" produces the goods.

I would say training should be adherent to club doctrines as would be the case IRL. Though you do say "while using the 1st team infrastructure" so I guess that would cover my point. However I feel that the coaches for the B team should be the same as those for the First Team because if you have rubbish coaches then the training will lack and IRL that is not the case with B teams otherwise there would be no Messi, Xavi, etc.

I like the intervention status as giving a B team manager free reign could result in your players being sold when all you wanted was to give them some playing time in the B team. The purchases should be within club lines, why would a B team manager buy a 31 yr old reserve player with no hope of ever reaching a decent level when there are C team or under 19 players who are far superior? This is where I would consider having some kind of system in place which limits the B team manager. After all thats what being a B team (Reserve) manager is all about, working within certain limits.

In summary you make some good points and I think SI need to look at this as continuing with the current B team system makes the game annoying (for lack of a better word) when you manage within Spain or another country with B teams.

Have you spotted this?

Have you spotted this?

that's a good sign

another problem that happens in places like Germany is that the B team is considered an U23 / reserve team, so players like Christian Saba (who has been playing for Bayern Munchen II since 1996) are considered part of the first team squad, and obviously aren't good enough so they end up transfer listed and sold. in reality they are key players in the B team to help them get good results in the league. hopefully this issue will be sorted for FM11 too.

I would say training should be adherent to club doctrines as would be the case IRL. Though you do say "while using the 1st team infrastructure" so I guess that would cover my point. However I feel that the coaches for the B team should be the same as those for the First Team because if you have rubbish coaches then the training will lack and IRL that is not the case with B teams otherwise there would be no Messi, Xavi, etc.

Facilities and coaches. Agreed.

like the intervention status as giving a B team manager free reign could result in your players being sold when all you wanted was to give them some playing time in the B team. The purchases should be within club lines' date=' why would a B team manager buy a 31 yr old reserve player with no hope of ever reaching a decent level when there are C team or under 19 players who are far superior? This is where I would consider having some kind of system in place which limits the B team manager. After all thats what being a B team (Reserve) manager is all about, working within certain limits.[/quote']

Hmm, Urgen gave a good example how a coach will want some older players. I am thinking to stabilize the squad, give a "professional" backbone?

Have you spotted this?

No, I hadn't seen this. That's great.

Just to add another problem: currently it seems that B-players' squad stats keep them from being tutored by 1st team players of lower status. Example: My 17 y-o midfielder in the B team is considered a "key player" in his squad by the B-manager. The only coaching option he accepts is from a key player in the senior squad. I am not entirely sure about all the criteria for accepting tutoring but in this case i should have plenty of older a team players available for tutoring.

What about for FM12 as most of those still exist or are made worse?

See the Spanish specific issues thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/230010-Spain-(Official)-League-Specific-Issues