Too many of my ex Man United players joining Liverpool!!!

A string of my Man Utd players, once I let their contracts run down, all seem to join Liverpool. Carrick, Ferdinand, O' Shea, Fletcher.

Of course, this could potentially happen IRL but it would be highly unlikely that these four players would ever want to jeopardise the way the Man Utd fans remember them. Since 1912, so in almost 100 years, there have only been 9 transfers between the clubs. And there have only been 4 players in 98 years to move from Manchester United to Liverpool, and 5 in the other direction. The last time any such transfer took place was in 1964... since then the rivalry has been too heated...

Yet in just 9 years I have now seen 4 more transfers. They all left the club happy, with me and my players on their preferred personel, so there is no issue here. They all also wanted to keep playing for Man Utd, yet end up at Liveprool. The occurrence is just too high in my opinion. I plan on letting Rooney's contract run down in 2 years time and I am very worried that he will join Liverpool at the end of it!

Now I realise in terms of priority, this is about as low priority as it could get for SI, and that's fine.. there are more important things to work on However I would just like to know if anybody else feels that there is too high an occurence of transfers between rival clubs in FM, no matter the profile of the club or rivalry...

In general, no I think its fine.

Look at leeds, man city - man u transfers. Inter to AC, barca to real, there's plenty of examples.

In general, no I think its fine.

Look at leeds, man city - man u transfers. Inter to AC, barca to real, there's plenty of examples.

Yes well maybe I shouldnt have asked for other examples, because clealry I didn't put my point accross well enough about the Man Utd/Liverpool rivalry.... there are only 4 examples of Man Utd to Liverpool in 100 years.... and since 1964 their have been none..... so why 4 in 9 years.

I think maybe in certain situations it might be a good addition to have a new kind of relation. Rather than having 'dislikes club...' you could have 'will never join club' for that kind of situation.

You know what they say though... never say never!

I don't really see a problem. Were offers accepted from Liverpool for the players? Or were they released/had their contracts ran out. If so, I think any player would consider joining a major rival of their previous club, especially it being a big club.

If you're so worried about players joining rival clubs, why don't you just resign them?

What do you want them to do, reject Liverpool and just retire? If they clearly want to continue playing, they obviously have the choice to go wherever they want...if anything you didn't want them first by not resigning them. If they weren't going to Liverpool they were going to go to another strong Premier League club anyways - to prove you wrong by letting them go.

O'Shea and Fletcher would never join Liverpool. Highly doubt Ferdinand and Carrick would too.

I think we need "transitive" relationships and rivalries. For example, if Liverpool try to sign a player but this player has played substantially for Everton/Manchester United/Arsenal/Chelsea, then Liverpool would be more cautious because the fans may dislike a former rival player. Alternatively, if this player is a former Manchester United player or favours Manchester United and has a high degree of loyalty, he may avoid joining Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds unless absolutely necessary. These are transitive - for example the latter player may not dislike Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds, but he infers this from:

Player X --- Favours ---> Manchester United --- Rivals of ---> Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds

Disloyal or very ambitious players, on the other hand, wouldn't really care - say, Nicolas Anelka.

Good suggestion x42bn6. Something for SI to think about for FM12.

Although I certainly wouldn't mind that for FM11.

I believe this should carry over for when they go into non-playing roles too?

I don't know about that. Using Michael Owen as an example, he achieved quite abit at Liverpool and his stint there coincided with a number of cup wins. After bouncing off two more clubs he came to Man Utd. I am sure that 10 years ago no one would have believed that. 4 players might be odd but I reckon it is because their contacts ran out and they were effectively signed as free transfers.

I think that rivalries and liked/disliked clubs does play a factor in the players decision making, however to make them so that they would never join a club might be abit too much.

Peter Schmeichel joining City is another example.

Gallas joining Spurs? Owen to Utd?

It's perfectly fine. Liverpool are a massive club and although they may not be as successful in recent years, history goes a long way and are still attracting top players.

A last pay day at a big club. None of those players are from Manchester are they? So other than the relationship with the fans, they're not exactly sacrificing a lot are they? It would be different it local lads did it.

Good suggestion x42bn6. Something for SI to think about for FM12.

Although I certainly wouldn't mind that for FM11.

I believe this should carry over for when they go into non-playing roles too?

Not so sure about all non-playing roles - managers may be disliked, but coaching staff I'm less sure it's an issue, because the coaching staff generally don't interact with the fans as much. That said, I can't think of any non-managerial staff off the top of my head who played substantially for rivals of their club.

Gallas joining Spurs? Owen to Utd?

It's perfectly fine. Liverpool are a massive club and although they may not be as successful in recent years, history goes a long way and are still attracting top players.

A last pay day at a big club. None of those players are from Manchester are they? So other than the relationship with the fans, they're not exactly sacrificing a lot are they? It would be different it local lads did it.

These are exceptions though - few cross the North London or Manchester United-Liverpool divide. Owen, for example, probably had the choice of a few mid-table clubs and Manchester United - and clearly any potential backlash from either side of the divide didn't outweigh being able to play for us. I suspect a more loyal (former) Liverpool player than Owen wouldn't do such a thing. As for Gallas, he's a bit of a knob himself so the "Arsenal loyalty" is less present than most - you couldn't see, for example, Thierry Henry joining Spurs instead of the Red Bulls after leaving Barcelona, due to his relative loyalty and love for Arsenal.

Owen joining United is hardly the best example in this case. Yes he played for Liverpool and was/is liked there but why would that matter to Owen? If somebody gives you a choice between a relegation battle with Hull or Champions League football with Man Utd which one would you take. Also Owen is an Everton fan so his allegiance with Liverpool is just the fact that he played for them, nothing more. If it was Carragher/Gerrard that would be a different story.

Owen joining United is hardly the best example in this case. Yes he played for Liverpool and was/is liked there but why would that matter to Owen? If somebody gives you a choice between a relegation battle with Hull or Champions League football with Man Utd which one would you take. Also Owen is an Everton fan so his allegiance with Liverpool is just the fact that he played for them, nothing more. If it was Carragher/Gerrard that would be a different story.

Actually sorry to step on your point mate but Carra is also a die hard Everton fan. Thought I would just mention that as a intresting fact

Actually sorry to step on your point mate but Carra is also a die hard Everton fan. Thought I would just mention that as a intresting fact

Probably why he's the top scorer against Liverpool with all his own goals!

Actually sorry to step on your point mate but Carra is also a die hard Everton fan. Thought I would just mention that as a intresting fact

Lots of kids move around even to rival teams though... As a youngster, the major thing to worry about is getting a good footballing education, even if you have to swallow your pride and play for your rivals. Manchester United's academy has a couple of former Liverpool trainees and I'm sure there's a fair bit of movement between both sides of Merseyside in terms of trainees.

Even though Carragher was a die-hard Everton fan he's been very loyal towards Liverpool - you wouldn't say he's been disloyal.

Actually sorry to step on your point mate but Carra is also a die hard Everton fan. Thought I would just mention that as a intresting fact

Whoooops!! :o

You get the point though. I think Carragher still cares enough about the club and the fans and all of the history to never even dream of playing for Man Utd.

O'Shea and Fletcher would never join Liverpool. Highly doubt Ferdinand and Carrick would too.

I think we need "transitive" relationships and rivalries. For example, if Liverpool try to sign a player but this player has played substantially for Everton/Manchester United/Arsenal/Chelsea, then Liverpool would be more cautious because the fans may dislike a former rival player. Alternatively, if this player is a former Manchester United player or favours Manchester United and has a high degree of loyalty, he may avoid joining Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds unless absolutely necessary. These are transitive - for example the latter player may not dislike Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds, but he infers this from:

Player X --- Favours ---> Manchester United --- Rivals of ---> Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Manchester City/Leeds

Disloyal or very ambitious players, on the other hand, wouldn't really care - say, Nicolas Anelka.

Good idea, but IMO this should only apply for fierce rivals, which tend to be geographical, rather than mere "other" rivals, who tend to be based on both sides being successful- Chelsea/Man United is a prime example, is there any genuine bad blood between those sides?

Even then, half of Aldershot Town's playing staff are former Reading players, and we've transferred players with Swindon before. Look at the transfers between Madrid and Barcelona.

Besides, would it actually work? I presume that Carrick and co. in the above example were in similar situations to Owen- it's Liverpool or a much lower rep club. Still, I suppose it can't really hurt.

When I played as Man City in one game, I tried to appoint Fernando Hierro as a coach, but he turned the job down as he didn't want to join the rivals of a former club (presumably Bolton)

i had the opposite problem.

i'm liverpool and lampard refused to join me after his contract ran out, i gave him a ridiculous offer but he still refused due to the rivalry and subsequently joined a Turkish side for a much lower salary

jack rodwell also refused to join. i tested out for fun and add new manager. but even after i treated him unfairly and he wants to leave the club, he still didn't want to go to liverpool

i had the opposite problem.

i'm liverpool and lampard refused to join me after his contract ran out, i gave him a ridiculous offer but he still refused due to the rivalry and subsequently joined a Turkish side for a much lower salary

jack rodwell also refused to join. i tested out for fun and add new manager. but even after i treated him unfairly and he wants to leave the club, he still didn't want to go to liverpool

This is my point exactly. Even for minor rivalries, signing directly from a club just doesnt happen.

What I am saying is that when a contract runs down.. this eliminates the rivalry factor.. but IRL this wouldnt happen at such a high rate of occurrence as 4 ex Utd players joining Liverpool straight after their contracts run out...

i agree. that's rather strange tbh

You can't really complain about a lack of realism when it involves you (an external, human). Would the AI let 4 big players contracts run out at once?

i had the opposite problem.

i'm liverpool and lampard refused to join me after his contract ran out, i gave him a ridiculous offer but he still refused due to the rivalry and subsequently joined a Turkish side for a much lower salary

jack rodwell also refused to join. i tested out for fun and add new manager. but even after i treated him unfairly and he wants to leave the club, he still didn't want to go to liverpool

Rodwell has Liverpool as a disliked club at 100% in the editor, so he would never join Liverpool

It wouldn't surprise me about Carrick but the other three are a bit strange.

You can't really complain about a lack of realism when it involves you (an external, human). Would the AI let 4 big players contracts run out at once?

1. At which point did I say I did this all at once?

2. They were no longer "big players" at the age of 35+, they were awful players.

3. All FM games are played by an external human. So does that mean none of us can complain about any lack of realism in any aspect of the game?