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Wiggz
25-08-2010, 10:48
Guys

Just a quick one from me about the upcoming and future releases.

Now I can't think where I read about it but I know I have and heard about it other places also, but at some point (I want to say 2012 as this is sticking in my head) UEFA are imposing a strict financial rule (Platini want's it brought in) that the books must balance for all clubs in the season prior to their European qualification in order to be allowed to compete the subsequent season.

By books balancing, they want to see a realistic and manageable debt scheme and also a good ratio of Wages to Revenue.

Is this to be incorporated into the game? I'm trying to find some material on it now to link to but I'm sure many others will have heard this.

Thanks

EDIT: Bit of information here from 2008....that must be where I got the 2012 date from!

http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/platinis-reform-of-football-finance-will-see-him-l

Lucas Weatherby
25-08-2010, 11:03
Has it been brought in though? That's the important thing....

jayahr
25-08-2010, 11:08
The FFP has been decided by the UEFA ExCo and the group of people governing it has been formed.
negotiations are still going on as far as detail is concerned, but the general rule of break even will apply from 2012 on.

Yet tbf the rules 'under the hood' are way more complicated than the financial system of FM currently and as will be possible consequences.
However, limiting chairman cash injections to €15m a year and then down to €10m a year from 2015 on would probably be a quite realistic way of implementing this within the current financial system of FM.

hth :)

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 11:10
Has it been brought in though? That's the important thing....

No, I don't believe it has. I suppose my question was wrong. What I meant to ask was "Have SI looked at this as I can see it having a HUGE impact on finances in the game?". Just simple things like the Transfer budget at the start of the season would be really difficult to implement. Budgeting and Financial Management will become an even bigger part of FM, as it will in real life also I suppose.

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 11:12
The FFP has been decided by the UEFA ExCo and the group of people governing it has been formed.
negotiations are still going on as far as detail is concerned, but the general rule of break even will apply from 2012 on.

Yet tbf the rules 'under the hood' are way more complicated than the financial system of FM currently and as will be possible consequences.
However, limiting chairman cash injections to €15m a year and then down to €10m a year from 2015 on would probably be a quite realistic way of implementing this within the current financial system of FM.

hth :)

Very informative post, and it's good to know I didn't just dream it!

As you eluded to it will play a huge part in the game as well as financially within the industry in real life too. Slightly moving to the side.....I can't see us being too far away from a wage cap a-la MLS. I personally would support that, even as a Premier League team.

Stampler
25-08-2010, 11:18
Guys

Just a quick one from me about the upcoming and future releases.

Now I can't think where I read about it but I know I have and heard about it other places also, but at some point (I want to say 2012 as this is sticking in my head) UEFA are imposing a strict financial rule (Platini want's it brought in) that the books must balance for all clubs in the season prior to their European qualification in order to be allowed to compete the subsequent season.

By books balancing, they want to see a realistic and manageable debt scheme and also a good ratio of Wages to Revenue.

Is this to be incorporated into the game? I'm trying to find some material on it now to link to but I'm sure many others will have heard this.

Thanks

EDIT: Bit of information here from 2008....that must be where I got the 2012 date from!

http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/platinis-reform-of-football-finance-will-see-him-l

oh oh...its gonna be boring european season without the debt-ridden giants of real madrid, barcelona, man utd, liverpool and all the italians...

Lucas Weatherby
25-08-2010, 11:20
No, I don't believe it has. I suppose my question was wrong. What I meant to ask was "Have SI looked at this as I can see it having a HUGE impact on finances in the game?". Just simple things like the Transfer budget at the start of the season would be really difficult to implement. Budgeting and Financial Management will become an even bigger part of FM, as it will in real life also I suppose.

When then the answer to the first question will be 'no' its not in. Not much point implementing things that aren't real rules and regulations

In answer to your second question, I am not sure. These sort are bridges are generally crossed as it comes to it.

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 11:42
When then the answer to the first question will be 'no' its not in. Not much point implementing things that aren't real rules and regulations

In answer to your second question, I am not sure. These sort are bridges are generally crossed as it comes to it.

Ahh forward planning I see. I just wondered whether SI looked further afield than their mandatory recycle each year.

afced7
25-08-2010, 13:02
There was something similar this season wasn't there? I know that Mallorca were banned frm taking part in Eurpean competition this year due to financial problems, despite finishing 5th in La Liga

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 13:04
There was something similar this season wasn't there? I know that Mallorca were banned frm taking part in Eurpean competition this year due to financial problems, despite finishing 5th in La Liga

I believe this is something La Liga brought in.....nothing to do with UEFA.

bigdunk
25-08-2010, 13:09
oh oh...its gonna be boring european season without the debt-ridden giants of real madrid, barcelona, man utd, liverpool and all the italians...

The thing is, as I understand it, it won't affect any of those clubs, bar possibly Real Madrid. It will stop Man City and Chelsea type spending sprees, but that is all. It's will only be a matter of time before clubs find loopholes anyway.

Neji
25-08-2010, 13:13
Haven't Mallorca been denied a place in Europe because of something to do with finances? I don't know the details (or if it's the same thing) but I seem to recall reading it somewhere.

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 13:17
Yes Neji that's exactly right.....this was the same place that had players boycotting the matches down to not being paid for months. Spanish FA took them to task and banned them from Euro competition for a period (Think it might be 2 seasons actually). Whilst it's effectively a similar punishment, it's not the same rule.

afced7
25-08-2010, 13:24
Actually...

http://en.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=1507133.html

I think it is

Wiggz
25-08-2010, 13:36
Actually...

http://en.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=1507133.html

I think it is

Oh..I stand corrected...and pleasantly surprised!

jayahr
25-08-2010, 13:53
Haven't Mallorca been denied a place in Europe because of something to do with finances? I don't know the details (or if it's the same thing) but I seem to recall reading it somewhere.

They have been rejected, but that's connected to the still fairly basic current licensing scheme which for once had an effect.
FFP will be implemented in a new licensing scheme.

However, Mallorca are sueing against that decision and most lawyers rate their chances well.

hth :)

Paulo1985
25-08-2010, 14:50
The loophole will be to find sponsor ship deals to cover the spending. City and Chelsea owners are well connected people and they own a number of businesses each. What is to stop them paying the club 100 million for sponsorship of the teams training kit or match day socks or something like that!

This would just be revenue that the club have managed to bring in whist still allowing the owner to pump money into the club!

afced7
25-08-2010, 15:09
The loophole will be to find sponsor ship deals to cover the spending. City and Chelsea owners are well connected people and they own a number of businesses each. What is to stop them paying the club 100 million for sponsorship of the teams training kit or match day socks or something like that!

This would just be revenue that the club have managed to bring in whist still allowing the owner to pump money into the club!

I hope Mansour and Abramovich don't read this lol, sounds like a good idea

jayahr
25-08-2010, 16:01
I hope Mansour and Abramovich don't read this lol, sounds like a good idea

Don't worry. UEFA already had this idea too. Every contract will be checked on whether a good and prudent business man would have entered that contract as a sponsor, supplier or whatever as well. Should there be a case of a clear circumvention the amount payable under that contract will not be counted towards the club's income for the UEFA licensing.

But that's exactly one of the 'under the hood' parts which are refined currently.

bigdunk
25-08-2010, 16:36
Don't worry. UEFA already had this idea too. Every contract will be checked on whether a good and prudent business man would have entered that contract as a sponsor, supplier or whatever as well. Should there be a case of a clear circumvention the amount payable under that contract will not be counted towards the club's income for the UEFA licensing.

But that's exactly one of the 'under the hood' parts which are refined currently.

Surely that's going to create a ridiculous amount of paperwork to check over? Each club must deal with hundreds of contracts for sponsorships and whatever, and there must be hundreds of clubs that get into europe each year (assuming this also applies to the earliest qualifying rounds). Even then they've got to make a decision about what something is allowably worth for every single one of these. For example, if a club suddenly decides to do super VIP seats at matches, with as many perks as they can find for 100k a pop, can UEFA suddenly say they can't count that income? They're going to be on very dodgy ground very quickly.

jayahr
25-08-2010, 16:57
We may be indeed. I'm sure that UEFA will have to learn from practise over the first few years.
There has to be a system which identifies attempts of circumvention as otherwise chairman payment would simply be declared as something else.
In most cases it will be easy to see that a contract is on the right side of the border and thought will have to be spent only on few specific contracts.

But having a licensing scheme is always a lot of work and this one will be no different.

jayahr
25-08-2010, 17:03
The good thing though is that huge circumventions are easily identifiable. A 50m/year shirt or stadium name sponsorship deal for Man CIty would just be off.
You may not be able to figure out each and every case where a contract might be overpaid if the figures are less drastic but in that case you'll still have achieved that. Some barriers against circumvention are better than none and if the big spenders loose 50m each year in the future instead of the accepted 10, then they'll still have cut down their spending by 50m from losing 100m currently which will already have a very positive effect on the whole footballing world. :)

But taking this back to FM, I don't see how the current financial system could thoroughly address a system as complicated as that (even if the figures given were calculated in a more differentiated way than they are given). But restricting chairman cash injections to the appropriate amounts would be close enough to the real system for me. :)

stonegate
25-08-2010, 17:12
Since many large clubs have huge amounts of money pumped into them I don't see a strict system being imposed without years of litigation and possable break aways.