is Football Manager showing its full potential. face it, FM10 was a sideways step.

Sorry for the way the OP annoyed people but just look at what time i posted it at...it was a clammy night and i couldn't sleep........so here is the improved

ok i have now taking FM10 out of my mac and put it under my bed with all the other old FM's. The reasons being is i've taking all that i can from the game. also i'm one of those annoying people that hate starting a new game in 2009/10 season when in real life the 2010/11 season is up & running ...anyway

after all thats said & done FM10 is a 7.5 out of 10 game....very good game (amazing when you get into a good save) BUT with some very alarming bugs and still needs improvements here and there.

Some Problems that i noticed in FM10 and how to maybe fix them.

1) i bought the game on the 1st day it came out and only got into it when the 3rd patch came out in late feb 2010. THIS IS SHOCKINGLY BAD.......in fairness 1st patch had "the history going missing and me being a stat head it killed the game for me....Patch 2, i was one of the unlucky ones to face the super keeper. the worlds best forwards in my team, 15+ shots on target a game , 3-4 CCC a game and still come out with an annoying draw and the odd lose!!!! but patch 3 was Great ........ Well done SI, now hopefully you can bring that end of season form into FM11....

2) there has been zero improvement in the international part.....well seeing there has been no improvements in the last 3 games

End of season training camps. And more friendlies before major Tournaments.....Also National Contracts for managers + coaches. And most important in my eyes, National finance. just like real life

Ok this isn't for everyone but i love International Management (playing along with club side to) ....you haven't achieved nothing in FM fool until you have won Euro 2012 with Ireland or take Finland to 3rd in the 2014 World cup !!!! and as for National finance. who's paying fabio capello £7m a year...in FM he and every Int Manager + coach are not getting paid !!! Not so realistic that....

3) First season shocks . ok, to be honest, this was a weak moan !!!!!!........

4) Press conferences are NOT boring. the problem is their repetitive....very, very, very repetitive...... after just 3 games into the 1st season the questions are repeating !!!!

why have 5 possible answers? why not 10? and have players answering with you in the conference. just like real life

Sorry but im standing by my point.....Press conferences are NOT still in their infancy....SI have had 3 FULL years to improve it and it just hasn't happened yet.... Finger out time on this part of the game.....

5) interaction with players have not improved in a few years now. which is very disappointing .....

make talking to your players a daily task. if he is out of form ask him whats wrong. how is he feeling and all that...and if a player wants to leave, you should be able to talk to the player and change his mind.!!!!

6) whats the point of pre-season? why can't i tour the USA with chelsea or Celtic and play AC Milan or Inter in New York !!!! even though these tournaments have been happening for the past 7 or so years !!!!!!!

make it happen SI

Sorry again but i stand by my point....IF im Chelsea (who in real life play 2-3 games in the USA every 3 years) why cant i do this in the game !!! if LA Galaxy cant play me, il play Celtic or AC Milan in front of 80,000 fans in new york..and get lots of money for it !!!!

Also heres an idea .......how about meeting with players you want to sign (when you get permission from the two clubs ) you ask him questions, he asks you "YOU, the manager can make or break the deal on what you say to him " !!! i hope this is the way the Agents thing in FM11 will be like

and last for now is i was just wondering if SI is finding it hard to get all the improvement they want into the game and their over worked.....can SEGA help out in a way........send in a few lads to look if the kits, player are right and all that ..just a thought

It doesn't really make sense to call it a sideways step and completely disregard what was put in.

The game will never be perfect and never be complete - I think that's the first thing that needs to really sink in here. Equally as important, different people prioritise different things; SI make a conscious decision each year to appease the fan-base where it believes best - that decision might not always align itself with your interests.

1) I didn't pick it up day 1, but it was definitely in a playable state.

2) International management is intrinsically dull. A handful of games a year, with real excitement only coming once every 2 seasons coupled with rare media hype and speculation. It's a hands-off affair compared to club level football. Refinement will come one day I'm sure, but for every part of the game looked at, it comes at the expense of another.

3) The ME always needs refinement, and in the couple of weeks I've had the game in the disc drive for the first time this year, I've definitely slammed my head against the wall after seeing some of the on pitch antics. However the ME is a little more sophisticated than simply picking the best team on paper to win every time. Without doubt it needs refinement, but for the most part I've seen Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool challenging, I've only really seen Arsenal drop-off the pace and Villa come good. Spain is dominated by Barcelona and Real with the odd look-in by Atletico. It's far from perfect, but it's engaging enough.

4) Press conferences are still in their infancy. I don't think they were thought out all that well from the get-go, and meandered along the same route every time, rarely posing a trade-off in response. Much too linear. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been looked at heavily this year, because like team-talks, it's just a bit of a pain. The idea of consequence really needs to be looked at - but overall interaction with the media and players off the pitch has always really lacked.

5) See above. Something I've really wanted looked at for years, the sense of communicating with your virtual players. The world isn't engaging enough off the pitch, which is disappointing.

6) That's a nuance more than anything. When Man Utd played in the US this summer, I doubt Ferguson had much any input what so ever. These are boardroom derived, commercially driven decisions - it would be nice to see them in the game, but it's a long way down an ever growing list.

Why would you want finance management for the international team? you think the real managers have any input onto it? I doubt much.

Also about the "unrealistic" results, well the game is intrinsically random, all sorts of random factors are in, and a team in one game can turn out fantastic, but start again and they'll flop, due to various factors. It's never going to be precisely accurate. Heck I've seen a team finish 4th in one season, then 16th the next. I think the randomness makes it interesting personally, and i think it would be boring if it always had the same teams doing exactly the same because "realism" dictates it.

Fail thread.

Alot of your points aren't even fails

just don't buy or play the game then if it's so poor.

You point out the negatives without mentioning the things that were improved between FM09 to FM10 which there was quite a few of.

FM isn't the type of game that can take huge leaps forward every year, it has a very solid foundation and that needs to be gradually developed over a number of seasons. Everyone is very quickly to point out the things that haven't changed without even giving any thought to the things that did improve.

If you don't like the incimental improvements then only buy the game every 2-3 years

First post was good in the way that at least he was constructive, however, ultimately:

It doesn't really make sense to call it a sideways step and completely disregard what was put in.

The game will never be perfect and never be complete - I think that's the first thing that needs to really sink in here. Equally as important, different people prioritise different things; SI make a conscious decision each year to appease the fan-base where it believes best - that decision might not always align itself with your interests.

1) I didn't pick it up day 1, but it was definitely in a playable state.

2) International management is intrinsically dull. A handful of games a year, with real excitement only coming once every 2 seasons coupled with rare media hype and speculation. It's a hands-off affair compared to club level football. Refinement will come one day I'm sure, but for every part of the game looked at, it comes at the expense of another.

3) The ME always needs refinement, and in the couple of weeks I've had the game in the disc drive for the first time this year, I've definitely slammed my head against the wall after seeing some of the on pitch antics. However the ME is a little more sophisticated than simply picking the best team on paper to win every time. Without doubt it needs refinement, but for the most part I've seen Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool challenging, I've only really seen Arsenal drop-off the pace and Villa come good. Spain is dominated by Barcelona and Real with the odd look-in by Atletico. It's far from perfect, but it's engaging enough.

4) Press conferences are still in their infancy. I don't think they were thought out all that well from the get-go, and meandered along the same route every time, rarely posing a trade-off in response. Much too linear. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been looked at heavily this year, because like team-talks, it's just a bit of a pain. The idea of consequence really needs to be looked at - but overall interaction with the media and players off the pitch has always really lacked.

5) See above. Something I've really wanted looked at for years, the sense of communicating with your virtual players. The world isn't engaging enough off the pitch, which is disappointing.

6) That's a nuance more than anything. When Man Utd played in the US this summer, I doubt Ferguson had much any input what so ever. These are boardroom derived, commercially driven decisions - it would be nice to see them in the game, but it's a long way down an ever growing list.

100% QFT.

6) whats the point of pre-season? why can't i tour the USA with chelsea or Celtic and play AC Milan or Inter in New York !!!! even though these tournaments have been happening for the past 7 or so years !!!!!!! annoying sideways step

make it happen SI

Because making a glamour friendly take place outwith either clubs stadiums is just a huge pain in the hole and adds virtualy nothing to the game?

Would hate to have to tell random teams they arent getting to use my stadium as a pre season training camp when ive got my own games to worry about.

[quote name=filcom101

3) First season shocks . i don't mind Genoa, At Madrid, Spurs or Aston Villa winning their leagues in the future. but in 2009/10? its SO unrealistic. Also iv seen liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona have shocking 1st seasons....AMUSING FAIL

improve the ME

Any team can have bad season. Look at Liverpool FC. Also works the opposite. There's no doubt that Spurs and AV can challenge for the title after buying the correct players. Same applies to other countries. A.Madrid and Valencia and W.Bremen, Genoa etc. are title challengers.

There are some good points here, even though they could have been expressed a bit more considerately.

Points of note:

5. Interaction. An area that should have been overhauled a long time ago. Recommend me a scout? Hmmm.

6. Pre season overhaul is also needed. Tours etc should be set up by the board with the chance to play big teams on neutral territory. Will help the immersion and be a potential money spinner.

Fail thread.

Alot of your points aren't even fails

This

To the OP, why would the ME need improving if big teams have disappointing seasons?

Well, I don't really agree with the big 'fail' in terms of the ME. Ever since I have started playing the game a few years back, the ME has been a work in progress with each and every patch. Some obvious bugs and imbalances that needed to be dealt with aside, it's the best engine that exists in any manager and I'm sure SI are doing the best they can.

That being said, there is some truth to your other 'fails' - because off the pitch, FM can become sterile and repetitive. There is very little interaction with other virtual persons and those press conferences are a huge nuisance as they're now. The only positive aspect of them are the amusing summaries I sometimes get in my inbox What SI should really work on for future versions (because FM11 is already planned out, we'll need to wait another year at least) is allowing the player to immerse himself in the game. I'm talking about more interaction with virtual entities, be it the chairman or the board of the club, players and staff of the club and even other managers and players you're interested in signing. I mean, what's the reason to answer "he's been a good buddy of mine" in the press conference after signing a player if you never even got to speak with him properly? But there's also a fine line SI will need to walk, because not every person is interested in that stuff and would rather play a match or two more and for someone like that, these options would be tedious.

This

To the OP, why would the ME need improving if big teams have disappointing seasons?

Something that isn't quite right is the AI of big teams to stay competitive - due to a range of issues from poor transfers, poor tactics and no long term strategy.

However this is something that is very difficult to get right as the game could become VERY difficult if the AI is tweaked slightly to be more competitive with human players.

Fail thread.

Alot of your points aren't even fails

This

OP come back when you have some valid points and some understanding of whats wrong.

Your points about Barca, ManU fails are virtually nothing to do with the ME so lets move on shall we.

Some interesting points here, although perhaps they could have been put across a bit better. Using phrases like 'fail' just encourages people to post pointless responses.

Here's my thoughts on them:

1. This was not the case for me. I got stuck into a save game on release day and I'm still playing that save game today, I've been hooked throughout.

2. I've always said that the international side of the game could do with improvement, although it is a bit unfair to say there have been none in the last three versions. National team contracts is something I would like to see included, at least for managers anyway.

3. I don't think the ME is to blame for this.

4. I'm not a fan of the press conferences, I let my assitant take them. This is a relatively new feature and I'm sure they will continue to be improved but when youplay as many seasons as I do then they are always going to get repetitive.

5. I think interaction with players has been improved, but there are still improvements to be made. Every time a player gets unhappy I would like to be able to talk to them via the player interaction rather than just offering them a new contract to make them happy again.

6. I see no reason for neutral friendly venues to be included, but I can't say it will make much difference to me.

Good post tbh. Although you probably could have been less degrading of the game.

I agree with them all apart from 1 and 3. Its good that you have provided a solution to the problems and I particularly like the idea of better tours that are not decided by you, but are the chairmans/boards responsibility to decide and they do so on the basis of fan bases, asian players, owners origin, special tournament on etc.

I definitely agree with you on some points you make, Like step 6, that would be really realistic if you could do that. And the one where you talk about the press conferences, I find these really boring and bring the game down in a way because they ask you the same old questions all the time......boring and repetitive.

1. This was not the case for me. I got stuck into a save game on release day and I'm still playing that save game today, I've been hooked throughout.

This.

The game was the most playable version from day one for the last couple of years. Not perfect, but immensely playable. Patches have improved it.

To the OP, why would the ME need improving if big teams have disappointing seasons?

Your points about Barca, ManU fails are virtually nothing to do with the ME so lets move on shall we.

3. I don't think the ME is to blame for this.

Just what I was getting at...

The general theme is that the jump from FM09 to FM10 was not huge and I have to agree. The whole selling point of FM10 was that it was a major tweak to everything and yet still needed 3 patches (although I agree 10.0 was very playable).

I think FM11 does need to be a big step up though.

- A huge update to the 3D engine - something huge, not just a few tweaks.

- Said it for years, but I want personality in the game - players AND managers. They still all feel like robots - yeh you get the occasional player who wants to move to a bigger club but that is it.

- A newspaper - something that makes the game feel more real. This is an easy addition and much more visually compelling than the current news. Ultimate Soccer had a good newspaper and that game is 15 years old!

There are more than the above things of course which could be done but they are a few things to highlight how I think the game needs to become more "real" and some ideas to help.

Well, I've been playing 10.0 for 32 seasons. What's the big difference between 10.0 and 10.3?? And can you install a patch and keep playing the same game you were playing?

Well, I've been playing 10.0 for 32 seasons. What's the big difference between 10.0 and 10.3?? And can you install a patch and keep playing the same game you were playing?

Here's the changelist which lists every improvement made by the three patches. Yes, you can install the newest patch and continue with your save game, I've been doing that myself.

I personally think that FM10 was a massive leap from FM09.

- Much improved match engine.

- Improved 3D effects.

- Much quicker processing.

- New tactics creator.

- The ability to add new leagues.

These are just the tip of the iceberg with the improvements, but points 1-4 made the game very enjoyable again, especially after 08 and 09 which I struggled to enjoy at all.

There was actually very little wrong with 10.1, the main problem I had was 10.2 was shocking and introduced the CCC problem, which means that all anyone remembers is that 10 wasn't playable til 10.3 which is nonsense. As shown by dafuge and many others.

Here's the changelist which lists every improvement made by the three patches. Yes, you can install the newest patch and continue with your save game, I've been doing that myself.

Just "patched" my game. First thing I noticed was one of my bald newgens grew his hair out a bit, lol.