Its easy....too easy...

Ok so I start a new game, take control of Redditch (BSN). Media prediction is that they will finish 22nd out of 24. The board want me to fight bravely against relegation. Anyway i go about signing some half-decent looking youngsters using the search filter to find contract = expired players. I also ask for a parent club and they came back with west brom. So they then offered me a couple of youngsters who are awesome compared to my current crop and then I begin the season.

After 33 games I am top of the pile, 13 points clear. Reached the second round of the FA cup losing to brentford, and got quite far in the other cups too.

Now I'm not having a rant, but am just curious if other people have had teams vastly over-perform for no apparent reason. I know that I am not an amazingly great manager, I don't play with any unusual tactics, but my team has become unstopable. I'm always reading about how other people find the game too difficult, but in my first LLM outing it has so far been a breeze.

Or is this the calm before the storm???

Ok so I start a new game, take control of Redditch (BSN). Media prediction is that they will finish 22nd out of 24. The board want me to fight bravely against relegation. Anyway i go about signing some half-decent looking youngsters using the search filter to find contract = expired players. I also ask for a parent club and they came back with west brom. So they then offered me a couple of youngsters who are awesome compared to my current crop and then I begin the season.

After 33 games I am top of the pile, 13 points clear. Reached the second round of the FA cup losing to brentford, and got quite far in the other cups too.

Now I'm not having a rant, but am just curious if other people have had teams vastly over-perform for no apparent reason. I know that I am not an amazingly great manager, I don't play with any unusual tactics, but my team has become unstopable. I'm always reading about how other people find the game too difficult, but in my first LLM outing it has so far been a breeze.

Or is this the calm before the storm???

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas

The level of class in the BSN / BSS is so poor, that even 1 or 2 "good" players could define your season. That along with good management and good training Could easily allow you to win the division at the first time of asking. As you move up the leagues, you wont find it that easy,.

chopper is right, i was the same on dafuges challenge, i managed to just scrape first but have stagnated in the BSP for many years now, you will see before time

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

West Brom are in the championship not premiership.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

Now I'm not having a rant, but am just curious if other people have had teams vastly over-perform for no apparent reason. I know that I am not an amazingly great manager, I don't play with any unusual tactics, but my team has become unstopable. I'm always reading about how other people find the game too difficult, but in my first LLM outing it has so far been a breeze.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's a point for a start - what you are doing is not LLM, it's just managing a team in a low down division - if you choose to use all the tools that are available to you in-game then you may well find it easy.

Once you reach a level where you can no longer loan in players way above said level, it will become less than breezy.

- crap scouts who can't go far

- any half decent players won't sign for you

- those great youngsters who were willing to sign won't as their rep increases when they get older

- quality of regens/youngsters at your parent club drops significantly

- non parent club players next to impossible to get on loan

- even if you discover a gem of a youngster who will sign, you probably won't have him for long as you find yourself becoming the 'unofficial' feeder club to whatever league you are in

I would hazard a guess that most people who don't play by LLM rules (find a parent club plus as many loan signings as you can get) find it fairly easy to get out of the BSS/BSN in the first season.

I had Aston Villa as a parent team at Redditch, and won the league mainly with the help of Tobias Mikaelson and Nathan Delfouneso. But BSP is not so easy.

But I disagree that it is too easy to loan players, especially on 8.0.2

In my save with Newport County, despite Man Utd as a feeder, not a single player would come on loan, even in the U18s. And when i finally took them to the BSP, Kettering had a lad called Ryan Dow on loan from Burnley. He scored 60 league goals that season (roughly what my entire team came up with) and when I had him scouted, I was told he was a leading star for any premier league side. SO it's not just your team that can loan superstars.

Clearly I was not familiar with all the rules of LLM. I only used it in the context that I was managing in the lower leagues. Apologies but I thought that the abbreviation LLM stood for this, not that it was a type of game following rules etc. I'm getting old, I don't understand all the abbreviations like I used too

However I find the rule that you can't get a parent club and make loan signings a bit odd. Lot's of clubs do this in real life! Loads of youngsters ply their trade on loan in the lower leagues...think defoe at bornemouth as an example. And Parent/feeder clubs are a part of real life football now, so why shouldn't I use them?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

West Brom are in the championship not premiership. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spotted, but they still wouldn't have a feeder team from the BSN or BSS in real life. As has been said, if you pop across to the LLM forum and play by their rules you'll find the game a hell of a lot more difficult. There's no need to do that, I personally don't strictly follow all LLM rules, but if you're finding it too easy and think it should be more of a challenge, then playing proper LLM rules will certainly provide that challenge.

I've made the mistake myself of thinking it's easy.

I managed to get Harrogate Town promoted in my first seaon, but it took me another 3 years to scrape promotion to league 2.

The problem I'm getting is that I still have little money and even if I do have enough money to buy a good players it's unlikely that they will want to join me.

I find myself now spending umpteen hours in pre-season searching for loan players / players out of contract just to make me a team that is good enough to stay in the league.

Thank god I am able to get in a full compliment of players each year on season long loans with 0% wage contribution from us. So far my parent clubs haven't been much use.

I'm desparately trying to get the youth system improved so that I can build a squad for the future. Whilst the squads I build can over perform one season, as half are loan signings, I have no idea what my squad will be next season.

I'll be interested to see if it's still easy for you in a few season's time.

hummm......sounds like I have a tough future ahead of me then lol!

Well it looks like promotion is a certainty this season I'm way out in front and just beat Tamworth 6-0 away and they are in 3rd.

I'll keep you updated on how I get on

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

Now I'm not having a rant, but am just curious if other people have had teams vastly over-perform for no apparent reason. I know that I am not an amazingly great manager, I don't play with any unusual tactics, but my team has become unstopable. I'm always reading about how other people find the game too difficult, but in my first LLM outing it has so far been a breeze.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's a point for a start - what you are doing is not LLM, it's just managing a team in a low down division - if you choose to use all the tools that are available to you in-game then you may well find it easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats LLM then?

redditch are misjudged on the game, a few people including me have said " redditch were 1000-1 to win and media reckon they will finish bottom, and i won the league, easily" i got out of the bsn first season, then it took me 2 in the bsp and i struggled in league 2. plus the standard is so poor its esy to win if you are half decent at he game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

West Brom are in the championship not premiership. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spotted, but they still wouldn't have a feeder team from the BSN or BSS in real life. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why not? if they're local then why wouldn't they have an attachment? they may not realistically send loads of players on loan, but there is no reason why they wouldn't loan the a player or two. besides, being a parent club isn't always about loaning players - it may be as simple as playing a friendly every year...

saying they don't have them is a very sweeping statement...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rlipscombe:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

West Brom are in the championship not premiership. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spotted, but they still wouldn't have a feeder team from the BSN or BSS in real life. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why not? if they're local then why wouldn't they have an attachment? they may not realistically send loads of players on loan, but there is no reason why they wouldn't loan the a player or two. besides, being a parent club isn't always about loaning players - it may be as simple as playing a friendly every year...

saying they don't have them is a very sweeping statement... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its a fiar statement, seeing as it isnt actually allowed between english clubs, no official link anyway.

I agree. I think you'll find quite a lot of players from premiership and championship sides go out on loan to conference sides every year.

Bolton's Mark Ellis was on loan at Torquay last season in the conference, so why is it unrealistic to see a championship player in the BSN?

Coventry City of the championship seem to be regulary sending out youth players to Nuneaton on loan.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by !.m.!:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

Now I'm not having a rant, but am just curious if other people have had teams vastly over-perform for no apparent reason. I know that I am not an amazingly great manager, I don't play with any unusual tactics, but my team has become unstopable. I'm always reading about how other people find the game too difficult, but in my first LLM outing it has so far been a breeze.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's a point for a start - what you are doing is not LLM, it's just managing a team in a low down division - if you choose to use all the tools that are available to you in-game then you may well find it easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats LLM then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll probably find a definition over in the Lower League Managers forum. Basically it is managing in the lowest playable league of a country, but with added constraints applied based on what is deemed to be realistic rather than what is available for use in game - e.g. only using scouts to find players, no parent clubs, etc, etc.

My original comment wasn't meant as a criticism by the way, just an observation. I don't play by the full LLM guidelines myself because I don't necessarily agree with all of them - it's just one way of playing that is popular.

The term "LLM" is a bit of an iffy one anyway - or at least the title of the forum "Lower League Managers" forum is, because it isn't really Lower League Managers, it's that plus a variety of guidelines for playing "the LLM way" so the abbreviation LLM really means all those things rather than simply "Lower league management" - it's "Lowest league management" plus a bunch of realism guidelines.

Was going to post the same thing, glamdring. Im not a fan of all the LLM rules but using them will give you a good challenge.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by isuckatfm:

Once you reach a level where you can no longer loan in players way above said level, it will become less than breezy.

- crap scouts who can't go far

- any half decent players won't sign for you

- those great youngsters who were willing to sign won't as their rep increases when they get older

- quality of regens/youngsters at your parent club drops significantly

- non parent club players next to impossible to get on loan

- even if you discover a gem of a youngster who will sign, you probably won't have him for long as you find yourself becoming the 'unofficial' feeder club to whatever league you are in

I would hazard a guess that most people who don't play by LLM rules (find a parent club plus as many loan signings as you can get) find it fairly easy to get out of the BSS/BSN in the first season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is exactly where I'm stuck now. Bottom half of the BSP. I'm far too good for the BSS/BSN but can't build a side good enough to challenge for promotion.

I'm in financial heaven (making a few thousand profit per month - a LOT to a Non league side) and I'm trying to keep boosting my training facilities and youth setups. Hopefully if this goes to plan, I'll be able to keep hold of a few young gems and build a side capable of propelling our status for the future.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rlipscombe:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojabold:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

In real life a BSN/S team would not be allowed to have a prem team as a parent club. This, coupled with how unrealistically easy it can be to loan top quality youngsters for a BSN/S team makes it a little easier than it should be to do well.

That being said it may well be the calm before the storm and it might all go chebs up after Christmas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

West Brom are in the championship not premiership. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spotted, but they still wouldn't have a feeder team from the BSN or BSS in real life. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why not? if they're local then why wouldn't they have an attachment? they may not realistically send loads of players on loan, but there is no reason why they wouldn't loan the a player or two. besides, being a parent club isn't always about loaning players - it may be as simple as playing a friendly every year...

saying they don't have them is a very sweeping statement... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its a fiar statement, seeing as it isnt actually allowed between english clubs, no official link anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he said^

I never realised it for a while but it's actually not allowed for English clubs to be parent/feeder to each other. You do of course get players going on loan to the conference in real life, but no-where near as many as it's possible to get on FM, and not of the same quality that you can get on FM. With Gateshead I had Sunderland as my feeder club and with them and other loans I was getting around 6 players a season on loan, all of them a lot better than my own squad.

I thought I was following LLM rules but after starting a thread in the LLM forum charting my progress I was quickly and very unpolitely informed that no one wanted to know about my progress because I had an English parent club. Gits. Suffice to say I haven't been back to that forum since

Chopper, I read that thread and apart from a couple of idiots, most of the responses were pretty friendly and constructive.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

Chopper, I read that thread and apart from a couple of idiots, most of the responses were pretty friendly and constructive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true to a certain extent, I suppose what annoyed me was the fact that it was some of the more senior members who were a bit tactless. Never mind, it's in the past now. You're right though, most people in the LLM forum are helpful, I don't want to imply otherwise.

Anyway, back on topic. I think you definitely will find it a little more difficult once you reach the next league, especially when it comes to trying to attract players to the club. It's a good challenge though and once you do reach the Premier League it'll be worth it.

Actually I agree that some of the guys on the LLM forum are far too quick to judge and a bit rude, but to be honest with the amount of blatant threads they get that could be avoided by reading the forum rules, I don't blame them for getting narky, which can rub off on respectful posters like yourself.

I agree with the whole youngsters from Championship sides going out on loan to Blue Sqaure Premier and North/South teams, it happend earlier this season with Ipswich, who sent Jordan Rhodes out on loan to Oxford United I believe it was, he played a few games before being recalled.

Coventry send youngsters to Nuneaton I think too. But this is all done unofficially and I'm not sure how else it could be implemented in the game.

It's fine as optional, but when the board goes over your head and appoints a parent club and you can't cancel it straight away it's annoying, especially canceling the loans and friendlies that go with it.

This is why I haven't bothered to manage in England for a long time, because of the whole board setting up parent clubs, so for the past two games that I have restarted in I have managed a team in Chile and am currently B 1908 in Denmark.