RBKalle Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 This is a bit weird... It's 2018-19, Norway has 2 teams in Champions League and 3 in EL. However, there are THREE Norwegian sides in the CL fixtures Rosenborg (my team): seeded in Group Stage/Defending Champions Brann: Champions 2nd Qualifying Round Molde: Best Placed 2nd Qualifying Round That lead me to two questions: Why is there a third team? Unless I remember it wrong, defending champions aren't granted a spot anymore, surely not if they earned it via League finishing position. Why are Brann in the Champions Qualifying Round anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Largely to do with your success, Norway might have climbed the coefficients table so that they now have an extra place in the Champions League. Check out the coefficients table. Not sure about Brann in the Champions qualifying round though. I don't know if that is a bug or what would happen in reality in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Defending Champions get automatic entry. It's also very possible they're entered via the fair play league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 I've checked the coefficients, it's 2 teams in CL, 3 in EL. Also, Fair Play draw gives an extra place in Europa League, not in Champions League. Still, even though I might have been given the automatic entry as defending champion, that shouldn't affect the other CL berths in the league... Say, Inter Milan will be in next CL as defending champions AND/OR as qualified team, but the 5th placed team in Serie A didn't get the "vacant" spot anyway... So I still don't understand how there is a THIRD Norwegian team in CL, and how one of them is in the Champions pot, despite not having won the league... I suspect a bug... Or an obscure rule I have never heard of Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Well I know the rule in reality is that if the holder does not qualify via their domestic league then the lowest placed team does that finished in the qualifying positions in the league sacrifices their place. In your example though being the holder with Rosenborg should not really make any difference as you are now just put in the group stage and the 2nd placed team i.e. Brann should be in the best placed qualifying rounds. So I would assume it is a bug unless someone else can point out something that I am missing as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 What are the finishing positions in the league for all three teams? I'm guessing that particular scenario is possible if: - Rosenborg won the CL but have not finished in the top 2 spots. They get automatic entry into the group stage next season as holders - Brann, being league champions (if they are), get Rosenborg's champions qualifying slot. - Molde, in second, get the non-champions qualifying slot The holder replaces the last placed qualifer ONLY if the league has filled the maximum number of spots allocated (which is four). Otherwise the league simply gains an extra slot for the holders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 What are the finishing positions in the league for all three teams?I'm guessing that particular scenario is possible if: - Rosenborg won the CL but have not finished in the top 2 spots. They get automatic entry into the group stage next season as holders - Brann, being league champions (if they are), get Rosenborg's champions qualifying slot. - Molde, in second, get the non-champions qualifying slot The holder replaces the last placed qualifer ONLY if the league has filled the maximum number of spots allocated (which is four). Otherwise the league simply gains an extra slot for the holders. That last part explains it for me. I never knew about that rule. For some reason I also misinterpreted the OP. I thought Rosenborg won the league as well and Brann and Molde finished 2nd and 3rd. I guess I should have read it more carefully EDIT: Actually I knew I got that impression from somewhere. The title of the thread says that the league runners-up are in the Champions section so Brann must have been the runners-up. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 I did win the league... (undefeated btw ) League positions: 1st Rosenborg 2nd Brann 3rd Molde Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I did win the league... (undefeated btw )League positions: 1st Rosenborg 2nd Brann 3rd Molde Hmm... That's a bit odd. But I think it could be possible too. I guess your Champions Qualifying Round slot simply got transferred down, since you qualified automatically as CL Winners. It doesn't sound very logical, but I think that's the most probable reason. UEFA really needs to clean up their rules. They really are a mess sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koki Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Where can I check on the coefficients btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Where can I check on the coefficients btw? Europe->Nations->Coefficients Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wallin Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I guess your Champions Qualifying Round slot simply got transferred down, since you qualified automatically as CL Winners. It doesn't sound very logical, but I think that's the most probable reason. That's exactly what happened and it is what is supposed to happen. UEFA really needs to clean up their rules. They really are a mess sometimes. Have to disagree, UEFAs rules do have a lot of "if" and "but" in them but that is needed because of the multitude of possibilities they have to cover. I suspect a bug... Or an obscure rule I have never heard of It's not obscure tbh, has been the same since it was put in place too. Just be glad you got a better seeding than what you would have gotten through your league finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyt93 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I guess your Champions Qualifying Round slot simply got transferred down, since you qualified automatically as CL Winners. It doesn't sound very logical, but I think that's the most probable reason.UEFA really needs to clean up their rules. They really are a mess sometimes. but surely the team from another nation that should have had the auto group stage place he took would get the champions place he vacated and brann would have stuck to the best placed draw and molde wouldn't have entered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 but surely the team from another nation that should have had the auto group stage place he took would get the champions place he vacated and brann would have stuck to the best placed draw and molde wouldn't have entered. Nope. The holders spot doesn't belong to any league. It goes to the holders regardless of where they come from. In that sense, Rosenborg didn't 'take' another club's spot. They qualified as holders. They get their own slot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontask Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Nope.The holders spot doesn't belong to any league. It goes to the holders regardless of where they come from. In that sense, Rosenborg didn't 'take' another club's spot. They qualified as holders. They get their own slot. yes i believe this is how the game does it tho it is actually wrong according to the real life rules Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 yes i believe this is how the game does it tho it is actually wrong according to the real life rules It's not. http://en.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/48/42/49/1484249_DOWNLOAD.pdf Article 2, Section 2.03. Titleholder 2.03 The UEFA Champions League titleholder is guaranteed a place in the group stage even if it does not qualify for the competition through its domestic championship. a) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to four places in the UEFA Champions League and qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the lowest-ranked club of the association’s UEFA Champions League representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into the latest possible round where there is a vacancy). In this case, the number of places to which the titleholder's national association is entitled in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League does not change. b) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to four places in the UEFA Champions League and does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the lowest-ranked club of the association’s UEFA Champions League representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into the latest possible round where there is a vacancy). In this case, the national association of the titleholder is entitled to one additional place in the UEFA Europa League. c) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to fewer than four places in the UEFA Champions League and qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, it is entitled to play in the UEFA Champions League in addition to the association’s other UEFA Champions League representative(s). In this case, the combined number of places to which the titleholder's national association is entitled in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League does not change. d) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to fewer than four places in the UEFA Champions League and does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, it is entitled to play in the UEFA Champions League in addition to the association’s other UEFA Champions League representative(s). In this case, the national association of the titleholder is entitled to one additional place in the UEFA Champions League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie1874 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 did any of they teams win the europa league? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdunk Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 It's exactly as BenArsenal's quotes say. The holders always qualify automatically, but any league can have a maximum of 4 CL spots only. So in this case, you get your spot for being the holders plus the 2 spots your league gets. If an English team won it, they'd only get 4 spots because they cannot have the additional spot for being holder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 Still, the Article 2, section 2.03 has nothing to do with the case at hand... My team won BOTH Champions League and domestic league... So I suppose my "regular" spot got handed to the Runner-ups and theirs to the 3rd placed team anyway. What does the official rule say about titleholders who qualify via domestic league? Had Bayern won the Cup last year, would have Germany got an extra/free CL spot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krald Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I saw scotland get 4 champions league spots one year, instead of two, I suppose because I won the champions league and we must've had fair-play award thing. Of course they were horribly squandered, as the only good scottish teams on my st mirren game are st mirren and celtic. Rangers didn't make it through one qualifying round, and strangely hearts got to the group stage (might have even been auto-put in - we had three scottish sides in the group stage) but they lost every single game apart from 1 draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Still, the Article 2, section 2.03 has nothing to do with the case at hand...My team won BOTH Champions League and domestic league... So I suppose my "regular" spot got handed to the Runner-ups and theirs to the 3rd placed team anyway. What does the official rule say about titleholders who qualify via domestic league? Had Bayern won the Cup last year, would have Germany got an extra/free CL spot? Apparantly that was the word going around, but I can't be entirely sure. Truth be told, I think what Uefa would do IRL would be to 'push' up the lesser nations (those ranked below yours), with the extra spot eventually going to one of the smaller leagues. I don't know really. It's pretty complicated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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