Thank goodness Germany are not licensed on FM

I'm glad Germany are not licensed and in the game, they seem to have stolen quite a few players from other nationalities. I mean I know it is up to the players in real life but this is a reason why I myself am glad they are not in the game. To be honest Mario Gomez is the only true blood German striker.

Oliver Neuville - Switzerland

Miroslav Klose - Poland

Lukas Podolski - Poland

Kevin Kuranyi - Brazil

Piotr Trochowski - Poland (midfielder)

Any views?

To be honest Mario Gomez is the only true blood German striker.

Such a German name too! True blood indeed.

Mario Gomez is spanish aswell, so none of them are.

Kevin Kurányi- Brazil, Hungary and Panama

and Gomez is half Spanish

but, I think that manager should be as real as possible

Karim Benzema or Bafetimbi Gomis (just two examples) aren't french, so what's the problem?

well a lot of players have dual nationalities, most of french or australia players for example

I'm England manager in 2015 and called up an immense Brazilian forward called Walter (not a newgen) as he'd gained dual nationality at my league club and at 23 wasn't yet capped by Brazil. I felt a bit cheeky, but his record is incredible. He's keeping Rooney out.

Sorry if this a daft question but,if you manage to get hte germany job or choose to start with the job, do you have to play with the greyed out players or can you call up there real players?

Originally posted by JoseBlanco:

Mario Gomez is spanish aswell, so none of them are.

No he's not, he was born in Riedlingen in South-West Germany, and was brought up in Unlingen.

Originally posted by jizzle:

Karim Benzema or Bafetimbi Gomis (just two examples) aren't french, so what's the problem?

Yes they are.

Karim Benzema was born and raised in Lyon, although he is of Algerian-Kabyle descent. And Bafetimbi Gomis was born and raised in La Seyne-sur-Mer, although he is of Senegalese descent.

They ARE both french.

Originally posted by tomtuck01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JoseBlanco:

Mario Gomez is spanish aswell, so none of them are.

No he's not, he was born in Riedlingen in South-West Germany, and was brought up in Unlingen.

Originally posted by jizzle:

Karim Benzema or Bafetimbi Gomis (just two examples) aren't french, so what's the problem?

Yes they are.

Karim Benzema was born and raised in Lyon, although he is of Algerian-Kabyle descent. And Bafetimbi Gomis was born and raised in La Seyne-sur-Mer, although he is of Senegalese descent.

They ARE both french. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wait, hold on. So do you consider players who weren't born in Germany but from German parents German?

How do you yourself define nationality? Its a different definition for different people.

How about players who moved to that country during their youth?

FM is a simulator of football not a representation of the personal feelings from a specified group of people. Therefore they must represent the footballing world as close to real life as possible.

Also I would say German players of Polish descent can be justified.

Im just saying that if they are born and raised in a particular country then I would consider them to be from that country, not that they dont have Spanish/Polish or whatever blood running through them.

Gomez's father is Spanish and he has both Spanish and German nationality. He is at least half Spanish.

Just where someone is raised doesn't mean they're that nationality. What about Eduardo? Brazilian born but plays for Croatia and lived there from the age of 16.

Patrick Vieira, Claude Makelele and Patrice Evra all represent France but weren't born there, shame really Senegal would have a quality side if Vieira and Evra decided to play for their country of birth.

And how can somebody born in Poland celebrate scoring against his country of birth, chose Germany because they have a better chance of winning things, sad really.

Originally posted by kristoaster:

Gomez's father is Spanish and he has both Spanish and German nationality. He is at least half Spanish.

Just where someone is raised doesn't mean they're that nationality. What about Eduardo? Brazilian born but plays for Croatia and lived there from the age of 16.

Mario Gomez is German. Although he does of course qualify for a Spanish passport because of his ancestry, I am not disputing that. I was merely stating that he was NOT a Spaniard, as someone else wrongly said he was.

Eduardo da Silva is Brazilian, he has just taken the oppurtunity to play for the country where he resided for so many years. He's not actually Croatian, he just has Croatian citizenship.

Originally posted by Saddlers12:

Sorry if this a daft question but,if you manage to get hte germany job or choose to start with the job, do you have to play with the greyed out players or can you call up there real players?

You cannot manage Germany until years into the game when there are enough newgens of International capability to pick a squad from.

As for this whole thread it's absolute nonsense.

I understand people's problems with teams that play obvious foreigners, we saw it in the Euros agaisnt Germany when Poland brought on a Brazilian who had been granted citizenship just weeks before the tournament and the Polish themselves had been questioning his eligibility.

However, to raise concerns over a German team of which the players named most of them have lived practically their whole life in Germany, is just ridiculous. Whilst they may have been born elsewhere, they were raised in Germany so it is more than understandable.

Yea, I just never thought the likes of Klose and Podolski would not play for Poland. I understand the fact that they would like to win things but if it was me I would stay with my home country and make them better if that of low reputation

Also, Freddy Adu is supposed to be ghanian as Michael Essien asked him to join up in the squad. I doubt this really as he played against England when they lost to them 2-0

On the game too, I find that being Italy is quite good for players who you can search not born from the country. Julio Arca and Rodrigo Taddei can be called up, not amazingingly good anyway. Although, you can call up Amauri from Palermo to the italy side because he hasn't even played for Brazil.

Originally posted by jjnjnkj@hotmail.com:

And how can somebody born in Poland celebrate scoring against his country of birth, chose Germany because they have a better chance of winning things, sad really.

"Born in the industrial town of Gliwice, in Upper Silesia, Poland, Podolski is one of two top German football players with Silesian roots, the other one being Miroslav Klose. His father Waldemar Podolski was also a professional football player playing for a number of Polish clubs, while his mother played handball for Sośnica Gliwice. In 1987, when Lukas Podolski was two years old, his parents settled from People's Republic of Poland to West Germany. Podolski grew up in Bergheim, North Rhine-Westphalia, and later in Pulheim, both near Cologne."

From the lukas Podolski site. 2 years in Poland and over 20 in Germany.

However, to raise concerns over a German team of which the players named most of them have lived practically their whole life in Germany, is just ridiculous. Whilst they may have been born elsewhere, they were raised in Germany so it is more than understandable.

Yes but its a bit stupid in years to come to have the squad name GERMANY and then in each of the players profile you have the likes of Switzerland and Poland. And they should be playing for their country, just check their birth certificate of their place of birth

Originally posted by fmfan08:

Yea, I just never thought the likes of Klose and Podolski would not play for Poland. I understand the fact that they would like to win things but if it was me I would stay with my home country and make them better if that of low reputation.

Sorry, but these guys are German in their opinion. Their formative years were spent in germany and whilst they were born in Poland, they have been raised in a German society and presumably have German as their first language etc.

They are German!

Originally posted by fmfan08:

And they should be playing for their country, just check their birth certificate of their place of birth

So if you were born in England, with a Spanish mother and English father, they separate and you move to Spain with your mother when you are 7 months old. Your mother raises you as Spanish and when it comes to selecting your national team you would pick England because of those 7 months and birth, over the 20 odd years you sepnt in Spain, where you raised as a Spaniard.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fmfan08:

Yea, I just never thought the likes of Klose and Podolski would not play for Poland. I understand the fact that they would like to win things but if it was me I would stay with my home country and make them better if that of low reputation.

Sorry, but these guys are German in their opinion. Their formative years were spent in germany and whilst they were born in Poland, they have been raised in a German society and presumably have German as their first language etc.

They are German! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. All German players mentioned in here (but for Neuville who actually needed a translator when first playing for Germany) moved to Germany as small kids.

Their place of birth plays no role in their lives though of course all of them are still fairly attached to their family background.

Originally posted by jayahr:

Their place of birth plays no role in their lives though of course all of them are still fairly attached to their family background.

Exactly, IMO Podolski's reaction to scoring the goals was more family orientated than actual affinity built during the two years he lived in Poland.

Deco (Portugal) was born in Brazil, Guerreiro (Poland) as well, Behrami (Switzerland) in Cosovo, and that list goes on. Does anyone remember long-forgotten Emmanuel Olisadebe, while we're at it?

Only goes to show that these clash of nations are all about keeping anachronisms in place.The English Prem League is pretty much the epitome of modern football - total globalization and everything. Anachronisms, yes, anachronsisms, but don't get me wrong. I still love the EUROS, World Cups et all dearly!

Svenc,

The examples you gave are players who gained citizenship through playing in that country rather than any actual family tie or history in that country.

It's a completey different situation to players being raised in a country other than that of their birth. The likes of Eduardo etc have chosen to play for Croatia because they are unlikely to play for Brazil and were eleigible for citizenship, not because he thinks of himself as Croatian. I would suggest that after 20 years in Germany Podolski would definately think of himself as German first, but with Polish history.

its the players choice isnt it, whatever they consider themsleves to be but i do i agree its wrong to play for a country merely because you have a better chance of playing for them, or better chance of winning things.

i have a friend who has iranian parents, he was born in iran, although he has lived in liverpool for 24 of his 25 years, he has a horrible scouse accent and acts like any other english lad, he says he is english and i agree.

I know this is thread on the nature of the german national squad, but i guess it would be difficult for england to judge being that Hargreaves should be playing for Canada

The examples you gave are players who gained citizenship through playing in that country rather than any actual family tie or history in that country.

True that. I was trying to point out how pointless this debate really is given the (footballing) climate we're living in. In the EURO forums you can see people making snazzy comments about a French team that apparently should start in the African Cup Of Nations! These tournaments, they only really work by keeping some anachronisms in place, sometimes more, sometimes less, and that's very damn fine if you ask me. Still as you said: a nonsensical debate, this.

Originally posted by norby1980:

I know this is thread on the nature of the german national squad, but i guess it would be difficult for england to judge being that Hargreaves should be playing for Canada

We could list players all day who we don't think should be playing for the country they play for.

I'm Northern Irish and Maik Taylor our first choice keeper was born in Germany to Northern Irish parents and raised in England. So who should he be playing for? IMO it's up to him, he obviously has very definate involvement with each nation, so IMO it's acceptable that he has the ability to choose. IMO it is unacceptbale that players can choose just because they've been in a country for 3 years.

And how can somebody born in Poland celebrate scoring against his country of birth, chose Germany because they have a better chance of winning things, sad really.

While you're making things up as you see fit, you should as well get your facts straight. As has been said, the likes of Podolski have been living in Germany practically all their life so there's good reason to opt for Germany ahead of Poland from the get go.

But here's another: upon seeing players like Podolski playing, and upon realizing he could have played for their teams, the Polish Football Federation experienced a feeling of deep regret. Regret so deep that they decided to not ever let this happen again. Regret so deep they recently send people scouting all over Germany - fact. See, while you're just doing guesswork as to what motivations really are, the other truth is that the German Federation approached Podolski first, while the Polish didn't even seemed to care much at all.

That and: Podolski didn't even celebrate.

I love in this thread how hypocritical people are being, its ok for France to call up people that have lived in France all their life but don't have French parents but not Germany?

Podolski has lived in Germany since he was 2

Klose has lived in Germany since he was 9 (originally running away from the communist regime there, plus his Dads family was German aswell)

Gomez has lived in Germany all his life and has a German mother

Kuranyi has played for youth teams in Brazil and Panama but ony senior clubs in Germany.

I would understand it, if people felt unjustice if it was the otherway around, but just because you were born somewhere or have a mother from a certain country or even where you go to School (Englands left-side problem would be so much easier if it was). Most of these people can't even remember where they came from (I believe Klose lived in France from 3-9 where he moved to Germany. The country you represent should be where your emotional ties are, and for Klose, Podolski and Gomez (possibly Kuranyi too) that is clearly Germany (apparently the reason Podo didn't celabrate his goals are that his mother who still considers herself Polish was watching in the stands, and he didn't want to upset her!).

Originally posted by tomtuck01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kristoaster:

Gomez's father is Spanish and he has both Spanish and German nationality. He is at least half Spanish.

Just where someone is raised doesn't mean they're that nationality. What about Eduardo? Brazilian born but plays for Croatia and lived there from the age of 16.

Mario Gomez is German. Although he does of course qualify for a Spanish passport because of his ancestry, I am not disputing that. I was merely stating that he was NOT a Spaniard, as someone else wrongly said he was.

Eduardo da Silva is Brazilian, he has just taken the oppurtunity to play for the country where he resided for so many years. He's not actually Croatian, he just has Croatian citizenship. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So he totally disregards his father and his father's side of the family? It's not distant ancestry, it's his father who he was brought up by. He can still think of himself as being half Spanish. You don't actually know him, you can't just claim he is totally German.

And yes I realise that with Eduardo, I was using him as an example of where the lines blur between nationalities.

I'm amazed at some of the attitudes here. Klose and Podolski were brought up in Germany. Presumably, they feel more German than they do Polish. Nationality is NOT simply a question of birth. And who are any of us to say what their reasons are for choosing Germany over Poland? I don't know about any of you, but my conversations with Lukas Podolski are limited to trying to unsettle him on FM.

The guys consider themselves German. Germany considers them German. End of story, really.

Trochowski's mother placed ads in Polish newspapers(!) when he was still a youth player, and still the Polish federation did not respond one bit. I think in these guys' cases it's really a delicate issue, mind you. This is nothing against the Polish football federation, but only the recent success of German players with Polish ancestry triggered their interest. If anything, it's the Polish who should be angry at them. One of the reasons why they're putting effort into scouting such players now is the higher standards of education and training in Germany. This world we're living in is a global village, really, and I'd be surprised to see that the German Football Federation was the only organization that is coaching players of multicultural backgrounds.

Some recent German players that could have started for Poland as well are Paul Freier (Bochum), Lukas Sinkiewicz (Leverkusen) or former professional Dariusz Wosz (Bochum, Hertha BSC Berlin)

Let's not forget about Guerrero, the Brazilian who was rushed a Polish passport by the Warsaw government so he could play at Euro 2008.

We should have Simone Perrotta on the basis of the OP's thoughts, as he was born in Aston-Under-Lyme, not Italy.

lets break it down so its simple

your nationality is the country yout born in

end of.

When I left FC Bayern I had Podolski, Klose, Sinkiewicz, Trochowski, Kuranyi, Eugene Polanski and Asamoah. I classified them all as German as I built an entirely German first team.

Let's not forget Owen Hargreaves.

Originally posted by mc-gunner:

lets break it down so its simple

your nationality is the country yout born in

end of.

Well I guess he must be right since he said "end of". Better leave it at that guys, mc-gunner has spoken.

Originally posted by mc-gunner:

lets break it down so its simple

your nationality is the country yout born in

end of.

It's not 1345 anymore. It isn't that simple anymore, and never will be.

For example, if I was born in Spain to entirely Greek parents who took me home and raised me in Athens, there's no way I would be Spanish.

my mistake.

i got that 1 wrong

your nationallity is the nationality of what your parents are.

so if your parents were english, your english,

if 1 parent is english and another scottish, your half and half.

Originally posted by mc-gunner:

my mistake.

i got that 1 wrong

your nationallity is the nationality of what your parents are.

so if your parents were english, your english,

if 1 parent is english and another scottish, your half and half.

You, Sir, lack intelligence. Just thought I'd tell you.

Your nationality is the one that you feel closest to.

If you're 25, say and you've lived in Germany for 20 years, but born and lived Portugal til 5, then you're more German than Portuguese.

However, if you've had it drilled into you that you're Portuguese, by your parents and such, it's natural you'll feel more Portuguese.

My mother and her side of the family are American and I was born over there, but brought over at 1. I am not American, I was merely born there.

well mike what would u say your nationallity is and explain it 2 me as u have more intelligence than me

My nationality is English because I was born and raised there. But that doesn't make that the only reason something can ever be someone's nationality. It just makes me personally feel English. If I was born here but raised in, say, Sweden, I expect I would feel more Swedish.

Incidentally, I do not consider myself British. That's just what my passport and driving licence say.

Originally posted by mc-gunner:

my mistake.

i got that 1 wrong

your nationallity is the nationality of what your parents are.

so if your parents were english, your english,

if 1 parent is english and another scottish, your half and half.

That is slightly better than your first point but still clap trap. My mum's Northern Irish and my dad's English, but i'm Northern irish, i'm not half and half.

As QOTS said it's how you feel re the country as well. My dad has an English accent and was born in Aldershot, but he was an army brat and so only lived there for 2 years, he then went to Germany, Italy, Morocco etc. He's lived in Northern Ireland for over 30 years and as far as he's concerned he's Northern Irish and I don't know how you could say he isn't.

"Nationality is a relationship between a person and their state of origin, culture, association, affiliation and/or loyalty."

WIKIPEDIA HAS SPOKEN. Note the word relationship; nationality is fluid and can change. It isn't always just one thing. You don't have to go from 100% Spanish to 100% German or whatever, it can be a mix. You can be and feel Spanish but still feel loyal to the German country. There's no need to pigeon hole it all.

To make a broader point, we need to remember that it is citizenship and not nationality that matter in international football.

Basically, all you need is a passport to play for a certain country.

Originally posted by kristoaster:

"Nationality is a relationship between a person and their state of origin, culture, association, affiliation and/or loyalty."

WIKIPEDIA HAS SPOKEN. Note the word relationship; nationality is fluid and can change. It isn't always just one thing. You don't have to go from 100% Spanish to 100% German or whatever, it can be a mix. You can be and feel Spanish but still feel loyal to the German country. There's no need to pigeon hole it all.

Not always one to go along with what Wikipedia tells me, but I do agree with what you say on nationality being fluid and loyalties and affiliation being a big part of it.