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DivineOne
03-07-2010, 18:42
My best striker:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7662/andersonc.jpg

has the ppm "Looks for pass rather than attempting to score".
So I've asked him to get rid of the ppm, he doesn't want to.

Is there a way where I can convince him to unlearn it anyway? By tutoring or something?

Is really annoying, last match I saw him throw away a good chance because of it, and he's such a talent.

TacticalGenius
03-07-2010, 18:46
With THAT composure, I'd let him pass...

stemlfc
03-07-2010, 19:00
That composure stat is a massive let down. :(

I'd leave it.

TacticalGenius
03-07-2010, 19:11
But then his decisions stat isn't great either...

DivineOne
03-07-2010, 19:20
Yes, well he's still young, it'll improve.

looknohands
03-07-2010, 22:27
Low composure and concentration? Geez...I'd kill to be able to sign someone like that to my Toronto FC squad. You guys are spoiled!

Luckz
04-07-2010, 01:19
Your only chance is to alter his personality, yes. Chances are he won't like that either, though.

Satio
04-07-2010, 01:41
I would just play him in a position and with the mentallity you want him to play at... he's young and will soon pick things up.

phd_angel
04-07-2010, 02:25
Good question. Following staff meeting advice, players are more willing to adapt their game. By myself, it is almost impossible that they accept.

BTW, those high attributes (18, 19, 20) tells me that this player is a massive cheat, a Terminator on soccer shoes, or an outer-space alien. Impossible...

looknohands
04-07-2010, 02:59
I don't know if I'd say it's impossible- the player isn't eating up all of his CA with outrageous physical attributes.

Luckz
04-07-2010, 03:37
Good question. Following staff meeting advice, players are more willing to adapt their game. By myself, it is almost impossible that they accept.

BTW, those high attributes (18, 19, 20) tells me that this player is a massive cheat, a Terminator on soccer shoes, or an outer-space alien. Impossible...

au contraire - I fear he's anything but that. Mental and physical attributes are more important than technical ones.

DivineOne
04-07-2010, 09:29
Sucky mental stats or not, he's still my topscorer :).

ArranoBeltza
04-07-2010, 09:43
With THAT composure, I'd let him pass...

One of my strikers is and has a composure of 14 and has finished runner-up for the Spanish league player of the year twice, runner-up for European striker of the year twice, top Spanish goalscorer runner-up six times, and top Spanish League scorer runner-up twice- he has scored at least 19 league goals every season for me and is played in a support role.

His player has a composure of 12 and the player is only 18- surely that'll improve to at least my player's composure of 14. Besides, most of his player's other stats are better than my player's so surely, if his player's composure doesn't improve, should still turn out to be a damn reliable goalscorer, especially because he's playing in a weaker league than I.


One bad stat (and 12 isn't TERRIBLE, tbh) is not a kiss of death for a player. I have plenty of players that are bad in one area or two and still turn out to be solid performers for me- people attach waaaaayyyyy too much significance to a single stat. And again, especially at a young age, poorer stats should improve.

Chalky1989
04-07-2010, 12:45
I do think it's a bit ridiculous that you merely get to suggest that they change their game. They are your players, they work for you. If you want them to learn something, they should respect the chain of command and damn well do it!

Luckz
04-07-2010, 12:55
...and again 90% of decent players do that. It's just the Ambitious <Sex Organ>s that do not. As it should be. Maybe you can fine them wages for being unprofessional, dunno if they then recognise which violation got them that punishment.
But fining wages rocks.

DivineOne
04-07-2010, 12:58
Well, he should refuse to learn some things imho.
Let's say his first touch stat is low, then he should refuse to learn "Tries first time shots".

Anyway, I'm looking for a tutor for him.
I was wondering though, does the tutor need to be better then him? Or just have the right the stats to teach him?

Luckz
04-07-2010, 14:48
But they don't refuse things based on sanity but based on how much of a REBEL 2 DA SYSTEM they feel like. :P
The tutor for the third option needs to have PPMs (as that's all that they learn), the tutor for the middle one needs to have better hidden stats (as this is personality adapting), the tutor for the first option needs both. And the older the player is, the less likely the last one is to get you anywhere - he's less formable. Probably applies to #2 too.

walsh
04-07-2010, 15:47
I tried many times to 'suggest' that my DMC stopped throwing himself into tackles, his discipline was terrible and he was being booked and sent off regularly. He simply refused which I thought was ridiculous given how obvious the reasons for my suggestion were. I sold him in the end purely out of frustration that he was so damn stubborn...

Luckz
04-07-2010, 17:15
Just fine him into reckless abandon every time he gets sent off with a straight red.

Misodoctakleidist
04-07-2010, 17:23
Players almost never agree to adapt their game. I have a player who is terrible at long shots, but refuses to unlearn "takes long shots often."

VinnyChilds
04-07-2010, 18:01
My favourite is my skipper who has a ppm of 'argues with officials', but doesn't see how removing it would improve his game. I think he just enjoys the games off after accumulating all those cards!

kingjericho
04-07-2010, 21:05
Players refusing to learn or forget PPMs sucks. I have striker on goal droughts which could be an indicator that "moving into channels" doesn't help them scoring.

Luckz
05-07-2010, 10:55
What *does* "moves into channels" do to begin with? It's one of the I think two or so PPMs I really don't get as I have no idea where those supposed 'channel' are..

DivineOne
05-07-2010, 10:57
"Moves Into Channels - A striker who likes to move into wide areas to receive the ball"

Luckz
05-07-2010, 11:07
Mh, I thought it'd be where people go and dribble once they do get the ball. Okies. How does it differ from 'hugs touchline'? Is it 'hugs touchline until he gets the ball, then cuts inside Robben-style'?
On the topic of wide areas, the FM10 ME really loves making my strikers dribble out wide and chillax there.

HarryMills
05-07-2010, 11:11
WHY ARE SO MANY YOUTH PLAYERS BALD? Alopecia? Nuclear fallout?

It's not shaved, it's properly, totally bald. tbh I'm suprised they even have eyebrows...

it's very very strange imo.

DivineOne
05-07-2010, 11:14
Mh, I thought it'd be where people go and dribble once they do get the ball. Okies. How does it differ from 'hugs touchline'? Is it 'hugs touchline until he gets the ball, then cuts inside Robben-style'?


Indeed, Robben & Henry style.

And indeed, baldness seems to be the hairstyle of the future.

Luckz
05-07-2010, 11:14
Because the player generation thingie is better at skin than at hair :D
If you missed it, there is some regen extra hair variety addon for 09 or 10.

HarryMills
05-07-2010, 11:17
Thanks, i'll try it :)

pelicanstuff
05-07-2010, 11:21
Mh, I thought it'd be where people go and dribble once they do get the ball. Okies. How does it differ from 'hugs touchline'? Is it 'hugs touchline until he gets the ball, then cuts inside Robben-style'?
On the topic of wide areas, the FM10 ME really loves making my strikers dribble out wide and chillax there.

More specifically, it's making runs into the space between the centre-back and the full-back.

Luckz
05-07-2010, 11:29
"Moves Into Channels - A striker who likes to move into wide areas to receive the ball"


Indeed, Robben & Henry style.

And indeed, baldness seems to be the hairstyle of the future.

So you say that the FM10 Wide Play setting (Normal, Hug Touchline, Cut Inside, Move Into Channels) means that they either stay on the sides, always tend to go inside, or first stay on the sides and then cut inside? Mhpf.
And the PPM then makes them 'move into channels' even when they're set to 'normal'? And maybe makes them a tiny bit better at it?



More specifically, it's making runs into the space between the centre-back and the full-back.

And "cut inside" is more making runs that are to some degree "horizontal", 90 from the touchline?
I'm so lost :P

robertcornell68
05-07-2010, 11:52
Would you rather he flat out refused, or spent a whole season trying and then gave up?

Which is what mine always seem to do.

I can see why things like "argues with officials" would be un-fixable as they're just part of their personality but telling a player to pass rather than shoot should be a tactical decision like setting "through balls" to often.

Luckz
05-07-2010, 12:09
Try domesticating Lucio and his forward runs.
Try making Pantelic play for the team.
Try making a real team player try to score himself when he seems somebody else in a better position.

StormenDK
05-07-2010, 13:15
But they don't refuse things based on sanity but based on how much of a REBEL 2 DA SYSTEM they feel like. :P
The tutor for the third option needs to have PPMs (as that's all that they learn), the tutor for the middle one needs to have better hidden stats (as this is personality adapting), the tutor for the first option needs both. And the older the player is, the less likely the last one is to get you anywhere - he's less formable. Probably applies to #2 too.

If you are referring to the 3 'Learning from' options when interacting with the youngster, then they all do exactly the same (shift stats and possibly teach PPMs), but they govern how happy the tutor is with the job. It is based on his squad status, which you should pick.

Role Model: Key Players
Adopt game: First team players
Learn from: Rotation/Backup players

To be able to tutor the youngster, the tutor needs the following:

- Same position on the field.
- Older than 21
- Higher CA than youngster
- Same or better squad status
- Better reputation

pelicanstuff
05-07-2010, 14:59
So you say that the FM10 Wide Play setting (Normal, Hug Touchline, Cut Inside, Move Into Channels) means that they either stay on the sides, always tend to go inside, or first stay on the sides and then cut inside? Mhpf.
And the PPM then makes them 'move into channels' even when they're set to 'normal'? And maybe makes them a tiny bit better at it?

And "cut inside" is more making runs that are to some degree "horizontal", 90 from the touchline?
I'm so lost :P

Hugs Touchline = means what it says. Old-fashioned wing play or a slow wide midfielder that likes to stand out on the line and spray in crosses.

Cuts Inside = when the player is dribbling on the wing and then comes inside the full-back towards the centre of the field instead of outside towards the byline. Often they will end up getting into a shooting position on the opposite foot to the wing which they are cutting inside from. It's movement with the ball rather than without it. Think Messi, Robben.

Moves Into Channels = an off-the-ball skill that leads wingers and forwards to make runs into the space between the centre back and the full back, where they can then receive the ball. If done well, it confuses the centre back as he doesn't know which man to track and leaves the full-back caught too wide. Oezil, Muller and Podolski have been doing a lot of this in the World Cup to good effect.

If a player has the PPM they will simply move into channels more often. If they have good off the ball attribute, they will do it well. If they have a good decisions attribute, they will understand when is the right time to do it and when is the right time to choose another option. Players don't slavishly follow your tactical instructions but interpret them using whatever common sense they have.

scoot4nat
05-07-2010, 15:09
But they don't refuse things based on sanity but based on how much of a REBEL 2 DA SYSTEM they feel like. :P
The tutor for the third option needs to have PPMs (as that's all that they learn), the tutor for the middle one needs to have better hidden stats (as this is personality adapting), the tutor for the first option needs both. And the older the player is, the less likely the last one is to get you anywhere - he's less formable. Probably applies to #2 too.

This is not true.

TacticalGenius
05-07-2010, 15:13
My best striker:

has the ppm "Looks for pass rather than attempting to score".
So I've asked him to get rid of the ppm, he doesn't want to.

Is there a way where I can convince him to unlearn it anyway? By tutoring or something?

Is really annoying, last match I saw him throw away a good chance because of it, and he's such a talent.

Sell him for his insubordination.

Luckz
05-07-2010, 16:13
This is not true.

So in what FM game did it change from Both, Hidden, PPMs to the current system?

TacticalGenius
05-07-2010, 16:18
The only difference between the 3 options is how the tutoring player reacts to it.