England overrated on FM?

Simple question: Are England overrated on FM in your opinion?

They always seem to win Championships time after time with AI managers, but in real life they can't even get to a semi never mind win a final. Player aren't good enough.

Not just in FM

Are you on about in regards to their world cup perfomances?

I wouldn't say they're overrated. It's just the premier league players we see like Rooney and Lampard didn't play great at this world cup...

You can't judge England by 4 world cup games though imo...

Plus it's FM. The scenarios are always changing

Not just in FM

Bit of a pointless post? Yes?

Are you on about in regards to their world cup perfomances?

I wouldn't say they're overrated. It's just the premier league players we see like Rooney and Lampard didn't play great at this world cup...

You can't judge England by 4 world cup games though imo...

They've always been amazing on FM/CM. Quarter finals of World Cup 2002/2006. Euro quarter final 2004, went out in the group in 2000. Didn't qualify in 2008.

Not just this World Cup, every major tournament...England are rubbish!

Are you on about in regards to their world cup perfomances?

I wouldn't say they're overrated. It's just the premier league players we see like Rooney and Lampard didn't play great at this world cup...

You can't judge England by 4 world cup games though imo...

Plus it's FM. The scenarios are always changing

Bit of a pointless post? Yes?

No, but you can judge them by the last decade or more. The 4 games in the current WC are just a glimpse of the continuous tradition in mediocrity. Don't worry though, as soon as EPL starts up again, the English players will be back to world class again.

Yes but on FM the matches are surely determined by attributes, managers etc which can all differ to real life.

The in game outcomes will be completely different to real.

You can't exactly expect some sort of thing to be placed on in England which makes the world class EPL players turn crap at international level

yeah i think england have always been overrated on fm.

Personally Ive found they dont win as many tournaments on this one as they have on previous versions (I never want them to win one till I get the job lol, I cant be the only Englishmen who feels like this)

There is a huge difference between reality and a game.

At club level IRL - the majority of England players are good players. But I think the main reason why we had such a bad WC was down to tactics.

There is a huge difference between reality and a game.

At club level IRL - the majority of England players are good players. But I think the main reason why we had such a bad WC was down to tactics.

Same reason why they didnt qualify for euro 2008

This team has had the same core the last 10 years or so, and 3 different coaches.

Perhaps its the players that are the problem as opposed to the coach?

As for FM, well the players in question did have a good club season justifying their attribute gains; so I guess they aren't overrated.

Same reason why they didnt qualify for euro 2008

its quite an interesting discussion.

dont get me wrong im english but i would rate england at best as a top 10 team but certainly nothing more which even then is certainly debatable.

what i would say is that even someone with a chip on their shoulder the size of a house cannot deny that the likes of lampard, gerrard, cole, rooney, terry etc are good players, world class is a different matter altogether but they certainly make a team that should qualify for tournaments and should beat teams like algeria and slovenia comfortably (no disrespect intended), yet they simply as a team arent good enough, its a case of the sum of the parts being greater than the whole.

must be very difficult to simulate, the way football manager sees it england have a world class manager (no debate necessary) and players who all have ca/pa that are very high but not entirely unjustified club football wise therefore they win things. Maybe they are decent players in the company of creative more technically gifted foreign players who knows.

This team has had the same core the last 10 years or so, and 3 different coaches.

Perhaps its the players that are the problem as opposed to the coach?

As for FM, well the players in question did have a good club season justifying their attribute gains; so I guess they aren't overrated.

totally agreed, you summed up what i just posted a lot quicker, how the hell you simulate the discrepency in a game is another matter.

As an American, I rate the English team on FM to be a fairly accurate representation of their abilities. England is made up of amazingly talented, world class superstars. On FM, they succeed because no game can truly reflect the personalities that are to be found in professional sports. This is not just true of England but all sports in all countries. Think of the L.A. Lakers in the NBA (American basketball). They are coached by Phil Jackson, who is an amazing 'personality handler.' For England, or others, to succeed IRL, they must hire these 'perosnality handlers.' On FM, it would be interesting to see something more incorporated about the circus of personalities found on international teams or world class club teams. It would also be interesting for FM to put something into managerial attributes that would show the ability to handle this.

at the other end of the scale, what i dont think is simulated correctly is the performance of teams with fat cokehead managers who won 3 of 23 games on a vaguely level playing field at club level before managing a squad of awesome players.

Ive never seen argentina win the 2010 world cup on my game despite the fact the squad is amazing and i can only think that is down to how the game rates the manager, with all due respect my mum could win the world cup with argentina, sometimes i think too much weight can be put on the ability of the manager.

As an American, I rate the English team on FM to be a fairly accurate representation of their abilities. England is made up of amazingly talented, world class superstars. On FM, they succeed because no game can truly reflect the personalities that are to be found in professional sports. This is not just true of England but all sports in all countries. Think of the L.A. Lakers in the NBA (American basketball). They are coached by Phil Jackson, who is an amazing 'personality handler.' For England, or others, to succeed IRL, they must hire these 'perosnality handlers.' On FM, it would be interesting to see something more incorporated about the circus of personalities found on international teams or world class club teams. It would also be interesting for FM to put something into managerial attributes that would show the ability to handle this.

I wouldn't say they were made up of "world-class superstars". They have 2 or 3 world-class players - 6 or 7 good players and a couple of avergae players. Take tonight's team.

World-class - Rooney, Gerrard, Terry

Very good - A. Cole, Lampard, James

Average - Johnson, Milner, Barry, Upson.

Gareth Barry has to be the most over-rated English player in the last 5 years. He was built up for this tournament like he was some sort of midfield maestro but showed very little to justify the hype.

Obviously when I put players into the average bracket I mean in relation to the best players playing in the English Premiership. Upson isn't international class by a long way though - I can not work out how Capello picked him when he started the tournament below King and Carragher in the pecking order. He had a couple of decent blocks against Slovenia but they didn't exactly work him hard. It's difficult to see why he was in the squad considering he has no European experience and has had a poor season with West Ham.

Still, I would have expected England to have won their group and avoid another group winner in the last 16. Perhaps the most worrying thing is what players are emerging rigth now who look like stars of the future? Other than Rooney, is there any playyer under 25 who looks like they could fill the shoes of Beckham, Scholes, Shearer etc. Not many - Rodwell perhaps. One thing is for sure - in order to get to the latter stages of World Cups - you need more than 2 or 3 world-class players.

I wouldn't say they were made up of "world-class superstars". They have 2 or 3 world-class players - 6 or 7 good players and a couple of avergae players. Take tonight's team.

World-class - Rooney, Gerrard, Terry

Very good - A. Cole, Lampard, James

Average - Johnson, Milner, Barry, Upson.

Gareth Barry has to be the most over-rated English player in the last 5 years. He was built up for this tournament like he was some sort of midfield maestro but showed very little to justify the hype.

Obviously when I put players into the average bracket I mean in relation to the best players playing in the English Premiership. Upson isn't international class by a long way though - I can not work out how Capello picked him when he started the tournament below King and Carragher in the pecking order. He had a couple of decent blocks against Slovenia but they didn't exactly work him hard. It's difficult to see why he was in the squad considering he has no European experience and has had a poor season with West Ham.

Still, I would have expected England to have won their group and avoid another group winner in the last 16. Perhaps the most worrying thing is what players are emerging rigth now who look like stars of the future? Other than Rooney, is there any playyer under 25 who looks like they could fill the shoes of Beckham, Scholes, Shearer etc. Not many - Rodwell perhaps. One thing is for sure - in order to get to the latter stages of World Cups - you need more than 2 or 3 world-class players.

agree with your player ratings but sometimes it can come down to luck

94- bulgaria and sweden semi finalists,

98- croatia semi finals

2002- south korea and turkey both in the semis

none of those teams had more than 3 world class players

It's not really the place to discuss this. If you want to continue discussing real world football, you can do so in the Football Forum or the World Cup forum.

You can discuss the attributes of players in the relevant threads in the Data Issues forum.